Tight bass Subwoofers $500 a $1000 suggestions - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 93 Old 07-07-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

From empirical evidence. By listening to music (such as smooth jazz) that has or requires tight bass reproduction. My observations are also supported by the reviewers at Audioholics and every owner of this sub.

The "empirical evidence" argument only works if you've listened to many, many subs in a similar environment. Say you've only heard 6 subs in your room and found the X-Ref 12 to be the tightest, you can say out of the sample size of 6 the X-Ref is tightest but to expand from that and say "hard pressed to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12" is a bit of a stretch.

I had a look at the Audioholic's review, where did the reviewer say anything about the X-Ref 12 being one of the tightest subs in the market? I didn't see any comment to that effect or similar.
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post #32 of 93 Old 07-08-2012, 12:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

The "empirical evidence" argument only works if you've listened to many, many subs in a similar environment. Say you've only heard 6 subs in your room and found the X-Ref 12 to be the tightest, you can say out of the sample size of 6 the X-Ref is tightest but to expand from that and say "hard pressed to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12" is a bit of a stretch.
I had a look at the Audioholic's review, where did the reviewer say anything about the X-Ref 12 being one of the tightest subs in the market? I didn't see any comment to that effect or similar.

Have you heard it?
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post #33 of 93 Old 07-08-2012, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've decided on the svs sb12-nsd. I've gone with that one since it met every criteria I needed to sub to plus more.

I'm currently in the middle east at the moment and won't be home till the end of the month. At least it will be waiting for me when I get there.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll update on how it goes when I'm back.

Cheers.
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post #34 of 93 Old 07-08-2012, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've decided on the svs sb12-nsd. I've gone with that one since it met every criteria I needed to sub to plus more.

I'm currently in the middle east at the moment and won't be home till the end of the month. At least it will be waiting for me when I get there.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll update on how it goes when I'm back.

Cheers.
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post #35 of 93 Old 07-08-2012, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Have you heard it?

No.
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post #36 of 93 Old 07-08-2012, 12:29 PM
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The OP has already made the decision but just a quick comment.

I guess the "empirical evidence" that Auditor55 is talking about is an outdoor measurement by a reviewer at Audioholics and as per Auditor55's own remark in another thread (SVS SB12 Audioholic review thread), such measurements dont count as "real life listening" (in his own words) happens inside a room. If the outdoor measurements (or "empirical evidence" or what ever it is called) of the SB12 by the same reviewer does not count, then they should not count for the X-Ref12 either. So if you throw out the "empirical evidence", the rest is all subjective opinion.
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post #37 of 93 Old 07-09-2012, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

The OP has already made the decision but just a quick comment.
I guess the "empirical evidence" that Auditor55 is talking about is an outdoor measurement by a reviewer at Audioholics and as per Auditor55's own remark in another thread (SVS SB12 Audioholic review thread), such measurements dont count as "real life listening" (in his own words) happens inside a room. If the outdoor measurements (or "empirical evidence" or what ever it is called) of the SB12 by the same reviewer does not count, then they should not count for the X-Ref12 either. So if you throw out the "empirical evidence", the rest is all subjective opinion.

The way I read it, Auditor55's "empirical evidence" is his own listening experience.
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post #38 of 93 Old 07-09-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

The way I read it, Auditor55's "empirical evidence" is his own listening experience.

Well "empirical" in general means "experimental observation". But if he meant personal listening, then that as subjective as anyone's opinion :-)
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post #39 of 93 Old 07-09-2012, 07:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

The way I read it, Auditor55's "empirical evidence" is his own listening experience.

Yes, you are correct. That is what empirical evidence is. From my own expirence and observation, listening to many musical selections where tight bass would intentionally be mixed into the sound, the X-Ref 12 performs exceptionally well. Also I will add, by the preponderance of the evidence, which is really a legal standard of weigh evidence, however I will apply it here. Most people that own the X-Ref 12 and even the X-Ref 10, have discribed it as providing "tight" bass.


"The X-Ref 12 deftly followed the bass lines and provided a hearty kick drum thump throughout. During the sections involving the piano the X-ref 12 lent the right amount of support to the sound to flesh out the bottom range but without calling undue attention to itself. When I cranked the volume up a bit the Emotiva was able to keep pace and maintain its composure with this concert performance."[Audioholics]
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post #40 of 93 Old 07-09-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Yes, you are correct. That is what empirical evidence is. From my own expirence and observation . . .

So you would choose to qualify yourself as an empiric???

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post #41 of 93 Old 07-09-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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So you would choose to qualify yourself as an empiric???

I'm an auditor.
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post #42 of 93 Old 07-10-2012, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Yes, you are correct. That is what empirical evidence is. From my own expirence and observation, listening to many musical selections where tight bass would intentionally be mixed into the sound, the X-Ref 12 performs exceptionally well. Also I will add, by the preponderance of the evidence, which is really a legal standard of weigh evidence, however I will apply it here. Most people that own the X-Ref 12 and even the X-Ref 10, have discribed it as providing "tight" bass.
"The X-Ref 12 deftly followed the bass lines and provided a hearty kick drum thump throughout. During the sections involving the piano the X-ref 12 lent the right amount of support to the sound to flesh out the bottom range but without calling undue attention to itself. When I cranked the volume up a bit the Emotiva was able to keep pace and maintain its composure with this concert performance."[Audioholics]

The issue here is not whether the X-Ref 12 is tight or not but whether a person "would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12".

Certainly in your experience (which may be limited) you might think that the X-Ref 12 is tight, but is it one of the tightest subs out there? Because that is what you are suggesting. On a scale of 1 to 10, you might have the opinion that it is ranked 1 or 2 in terms of tightness, but in fact it could be 3 or 4. It is impossible to say unless you have heard many, many subs in a controlled environment or the data is out there. Yet, you were so bold as to make that suggestion so I asked for your basis and it turns out your basis isn't that solid. Audioholics commented on the listening impression of the sub, but did not say anything about how tight it was compared to others and went nowhere as far as you in saying "would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12".

Bear in mind I'm not saying the X-Ref 12 is not tight, I'm just saying that it is fairly possible to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12.
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post #43 of 93 Old 07-11-2012, 11:49 AM
 
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The issue here is not whether the X-Ref 12 is tight or not but whether a person "would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter than an X-Ref 12".

After my own listening observations, testimony from several owners and subwoofer reviews, I conclude that you would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter that an X-Ref 12. I stand by my statement. Also, I do believe it is one of the tightest subs out there. I believe it was designed to be that way. Tight, punchy bass being the goal.
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post #44 of 93 Old 07-11-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

After my own listening observations, testimony from several owners and subwoofer reviews, I conclude that you would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter that an X-Ref 12. I stand by my statement. Also, I do believe it is one of the tightest subs out there. I believe it was designed to be that way. Tight, punchy bass being the goal.

You avoided jchong's main point. Have you actually compared it directly with other subs? Or is this all personal listening just to the X-Ref? If so, which subs?

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post #45 of 93 Old 07-11-2012, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

After my own listening observations, testimony from several owners and subwoofer reviews, I conclude that you would be hard pressed to find a sub tighter that an X-Ref 12. I stand by my statement. Also, I do believe it is one of the tightest subs out there. I believe it was designed to be that way. Tight, punchy bass being the goal.

For an auditor you sure have an interesting way of reaching conclusions. Anyway, I shall leave you to your beliefs.
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post #46 of 93 Old 07-12-2012, 11:18 AM
 
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You avoided jchong's main point. Have you actually compared it directly with other subs? Or is this all personal listening just to the X-Ref? If so, which subs?

I've compared it to other sub's. However, I don't think it matters though. The sub is either tight or it isn't. Now I do realize that some of it has to do with set-up, however I can remember with previous subs how hard of a time I had getting them close to the tightness I wanted, which I get with ease from the X-Ref 12.

The music in this video is type of material that I throw at a sub to evaluate it in my room. Most people will use scenes from summer blockbusters (e.g. WOTW, Transformers 3) that offer the loudest, deepest and most bombastic boom to demo a sub. I look for tight, punchy, musical bass.

For example, there's a lot of stuff going in this piece with the bass notes. You have Brian Bromberg, with his stand up bass and the drummer kicking that kick drum. Which is the foundation of this music. I want a sub quick enough, clean enough, tight of enough that doesn't muddy up what these wonderful musicians are doing in this piece. Muddy bass drives me crazy, I will go mad it can't get it dialed so I can get that tight, articualte, musical bass. I don't mind some boominess on movie soundtracks because I'm paying attention to video as well, but don't mess with my music.
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post #47 of 93 Old 07-12-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I've compared it to other sub's. However, I don't think it matters though. The sub is either tight or it isn't.

It does make a difference. Tight is a relative term. So what other subs?

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post #48 of 93 Old 07-12-2012, 03:50 PM
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I guess the Auditor switched his defense/consolation to "empirical evidence" i.e personal experience/observation, as the objective measurements by the same reputed reviewer at Audioholics gives the SB12 an edge over the X-Ref12 :-) He has started cutting and pasting subjective opinions again.

He should listen to the SB12 and then decide whether he wants to say that one would be hard pressed to find a sub that is tighter than X-Ref12. What about the Epik Legend? It is also in the same price range. I am also curious to know what subs he has listened in his room to make the conclusion that X-Ref12 is the tightest sub on this planet. I am also curious to know if he has any room treatments or if he uses any sub eq like Audyssey, Antimode etc.
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post #49 of 93 Old 07-12-2012, 05:24 PM
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Alright I will bit Auditor. Apparently you have/had a SVS sb-13. Says a bunch of words like "tight" but doesn't know his frequency response or room decay. Is your defenition of "tight" a measureable parameter or just magic? Is the frequency response of the seat important or just getting a sub that is the "tightest"? Let's get a little background reference established.

Auditor55 quotes

https://www.avsforum.com/search.php?advanced=1&search=sb-13&titleonly=0&byuser=Auditor55&output=posts&containingforum%5B0%5D=113&replycompare=gt&numupdates=&sdate=0&newer=1&sort=lastupdate&order=descending&Search=SEARCH&start=10

"I've been running my X-Ref 12 with an SB-13 as of late. Both subs are pretty tight, with X-Ref being a tad tighter. Obviously the SB-13 goes lower. Anyway, I gained matched both subs and get a decent sound for music. Its not perfect, I need to do more tweaking, but is pretty good. Its probably better to have two X-Ref 10's along with the SB-13, per Dr. Earl Geddes, instead of one X-Ref 12.

For movies, I typically run my system on different MCACC preset than I do for movies, with the subs being a tad hot, where critical listening is not required as much as it is for music.

I love both subs very much, with SB-13 being more of a dual purpose subs than the X-Ref 12."

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1316032/when-going-with-two-subs-is-it-crucial-that-they-match#post_21854189

"You should try tweaking it a little bit more, although I hear what you're saying. I experimented by turning off my X-Ref 12 and then turning off my SB-13, both sound good alone. They sound pretty good combined on music and since I listen to smooth jazz and they music does have very much ULF."

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1316032/when-going-with-two-subs-is-it-crucial-that-they-match#post_21854222


"You should look for a used X-Ref 12. It's a better sub than the Ultra 12 (more tweakble and user friendly). I'm sure it would match well with the Ultra 12.

I have an X-Ref 12, extremely tight and punchy, can't be beat for music. Its subjectively tighter than my SB-13. I love both subs, can't be beat for music (which I love) and no slouches for HT."

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1407280/what-options-do-i-have-emo-ultra-12#post_21962240

"You should have purchased two subs instead one big sub for better frequency response. That one big sub is not going to do it.

"In my setup the room is special, its designed to be a listening room and it has extensive LF damping. This is always going to be an advantage. But the approach is the same no mater what kind of room you have. The idea is to use multple subs located around the room to smooth the spatial and spectral response at the seating location. The fact that multiple subs does this has been proven time and time again and really isn't an arguable point. IF you want the smoothest bass, then you must use multiple sources, no single source can compete. The room dominates the LF situation in any audio system and its the sources that must be accomodated to the room." [Earl Geddes, Ph.D]"

https://www.avsforum.com/t/737143/official-svs-owners-support-thread/7800#post_22109033

Still running two subs? What internet direct subwoofer have you demoed? Which ones in the same place during the same listening session?

You also believe ULF frequency's are harmful as your evidence from the Nazi's proved, and that Plasmas are all a thing of the flat panel past just to name a couple.

I think the emo sub is alright but not the best value, but man I would never purchase something I had to read the same amazon subjective review 100's of times. I am glad you enjoy your purchase. smile.gif
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post #50 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 12:55 PM
 
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Let me provide a few comments from some audiophiles and their mostly negative perception of subwoofers. I suspect the HT crowd is responsible for the negative opinions that some audiophiles have for subwoofers, which is a that a subwoofer piece of audio gear used for the purpose of reproducing loud boom effects primarily from summer blockbuster movies.


"I think it's because (1) most really good music-oriented speakers are designed to run without subs, and (2) most subs are designed to make the floor shake when watching movies with overdone explosions, or to one-note "music".


"Good-sounding music-oriented subs (Rel, Vandersteen, et al.) exist, but they're the exceptions."



"If you want to hear the thumping, any piece of junk can do that"



"Subs for hometheatre can embellish the enjoyment of a Movie watched but are very hard to get right and usually expensive for musical bass that does not overwhelm the room or the MIDRANGE"


Unfortunately the above is just a sample of what you get from audiophiles concerning the use of subwoofers. Agree or disagree, that seems to be the opinion of many audiophiles. They see the subwoofer as a boom box and they distance themselves from the use one. The use of a subwoofer in system for music playback is sacreligious to many of audiophiles. BTW, a true audiophile is really a music lover/listener. Now anyone that loves music can relate to those comments. In this forum, the vast majoriy of folks are 80% movies. So the perception persist.

Well would like to change that perception, I can attest to a subwoofer like the X-Ref 12 , as being, tight, articulate, and does not overwhelm the midrange or any of those things and is easy to set-up and integrate into a two channel system or multi-channel system music system.
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post #51 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I guess the Auditor switched his defense/consolation to "empirical evidence" i.e personal experience/observation, as the objective measurements by the same reputed reviewer at Audioholics gives the SB12 an edge over the X-Ref12 :-) He has started cutting and pasting subjective opinions again.
He should listen to the SB12 and then decide whether he wants to say that one would be hard pressed to find a sub that is tighter than X-Ref12. What about the Epik Legend? It is also in the same price range. I am also curious to know what subs he has listened in his room to make the conclusion that X-Ref12 is the tightest sub on this planet. I am also curious to know if he has any room treatments or if he uses any sub eq like Audyssey, Antimode etc.

I never said the X-Ref 12 is the tightest sub on the planet. I haven't listened to Epik Legend, I suspect it being sealed is would be pretty tight, however I don't read about people raving over the Epik Legend being tight. I read more about amp problems than I do tight musical bass.
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post #52 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 01:07 PM
 
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You also believe ULF frequency's are harmful as your evidence from the Nazi's proved, and that Plasmas are all a thing of the flat panel past just to name a couple.

Yes I absolutely do believe that infrasounds can be harmful to human beings, the evidence is overwhelming that they are. Why some folks around here spend thousands on megabuck subwoofers that go really loud and low and listening to them at reference level without taking into the harm they might be doing to themselves is beyond me.

I'm still running my SB13. SB13 is nice, but it's harder to tame. You have to love the X-Ref 12 for putting the LCD controls in the front on top. Kudos for Emotiva for doing so, it is the future in subwoofer design. The days having that knob on the back of sub in a dark room are over.
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post #53 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 01:55 PM
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Yes I absolutely do believe that infrasounds can be harmful to human beings, the evidence is overwhelming that they are. Why some folks around here spend thousands on megabuck subwoofers that go really loud and low and listening to them at reference level without taking into the harm they might be doing to themselves is beyond me.
I'm still running my SB13. SB13 is nice, but it's harder to tame. You have to love the X-Ref 12 for putting the LCD controls in the front on top. Kudos for Emotiva for doing so, it is the future in subwoofer design. The days having that knob on the back of sub in a dark room are over.

You and I have a difference in opinion on what constitutes evidence, let alone "overwhelming" evidence. To me, the fact that smoking causes lung cancer is based upon overwhelming evidence. I know there are rat studies looking at the adverse effects of infrasound, but humans are not rats. These animals were also subjected to 130db at 10Hz for 2 hour period which does not mimic real life. I don't know of a lot of human studies that have looked at this rigorously and in a systematic fashion. If you have some, I would like to see it.

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post #54 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 02:43 PM
 
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You and I have a difference in opinion on what constitutes evidence, let alone "overwhelming" evidence. To me, the fact that smoking causes lung cancer is based upon overwhelming evidence. I know there are rat studies looking at the adverse effects of infrasound, but humans are not rats. These animals were also subjected to 130db at 10Hz for 2 hour period which does not mimic real life. I don't know of a lot of human studies that have looked at this rigorously and in a systematic fashion. If you have some, I would like to see it.

The evidence that I make reference to does not involve any expirements with rats.
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post #55 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 02:50 PM
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The evidence that I make reference to does not involve any expirements with rats.

My point is that the harmful effects of infrasound have been demonstrated only in animal models. Can you show me the evidence that infrasound is harmful in humans?

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Originally Posted by jhan1000 View Post

My point is that the harmful effects of infrasound have been demonstrated only in animal models. Can you show me the evidence that infrasound is harmful in humans?

I will tell you, a very popular subwoofer manufacturer around here said his very own subs make him feel sick when played very low (infrasounds) and loud.
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post #57 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I will tell you, a very popular subwoofer manufacturer around here said his very own subs make him feel sick when played very low (infrasounds) and loud.

"Feeling sick" is a far cry from "harm". I get real sick when I ride roller coasters, but it does not make them harmful. smile.gif

In addition, what you are citing is anecodotal evidence which is a far cry from evidence from rigorously performed human studies.

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post #58 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 05:25 PM
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Let me provide a few comments from some audiophiles and their mostly negative perception of subwoofers. I suspect the HT crowd is responsible for the negative opinions that some audiophiles have for subwoofers, which is a that a subwoofer piece of audio gear used for the purpose of reproducing loud boom effects primarily from summer blockbuster movies.
"I think it's because (1) most really good music-oriented speakers are designed to run without subs, and (2) most subs are designed to make the floor shake when watching movies with overdone explosions, or to one-note "music".

"Good-sounding music-oriented subs (Rel, Vandersteen, et al.) exist, but they're the exceptions."


"If you want to hear the thumping, any piece of junk can do that"

"Subs for hometheatre can embellish the enjoyment of a Movie watched but are very hard to get right and usually expensive for musical bass that does not overwhelm the room or the MIDRANGE"
Unfortunately the above is just a sample of what you get from audiophiles concerning the use of subwoofers. Agree or disagree, that seems to be the opinion of many audiophiles. They see the subwoofer as a boom box and they distance themselves from the use one. The use of a subwoofer in system for music playback is sacreligious to many of audiophiles. BTW, a true audiophile is really a music lover/listener. Now anyone that loves music can relate to those comments. In this forum, the vast majoriy of folks are 80% movies. So the perception persist.
Well would like to change that perception, I can attest to a subwoofer like the X-Ref 12 , as being, tight, articulate, and does not overwhelm the midrange or any of those things and is easy to set-up and integrate into a two channel system or multi-channel system music system.

Nice dance around anything worthwhile. Random quotes from self proclaimed audiophiles with no factual evidence again? Why does anyone or I care what the uninformed have to say? I follow facts from actual scientific study. I have read enough silly claims from those who use their ears to judge. I use measurement devices to tell me what I am hearing. I love music and relate to none of those comments. I also like movies even more so now I have bad perception? I commend you on your white knight quest to educate those about a "subwoofer like the X-Ref 12 , as being, tight, articulate, and does not overwhelm the midrange or any of those things and is easy to set-up and integrate into a two channel system or multi-channel system music system." However the benefits of a subwoofer and bass management have been well documented for quite some time, as well as multiple point sources for smoothing the frequency response of the modal region. I am uninterested in the emotiva so we can leave it out of the discussion unless it is in relation to the science behind what makes it "tight" sounding.

Here are a couple facts for you.

"Neurologists, brain experts, hearing experts, and audio experts, all agree the human hearing system, by necessity, discards around 99.99% of what arrives at our ears."

"The science shows our audio memory starts to degrade after just 0.2 seconds. So if switching from Gear A to Gear B requires more than a fraction of a second you’re losing more information."

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

from this thread
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1409061/sonic-transparency-and-listener-bias-what-we-hear

Your quote that I reposted above by earl geddes is a good one. Did you know he uses bandpass subwoofers?

A few more questions that would be helpful to myself and others if you could answer them so we can further see your background and authority on the subjects at hand.

Is your defenition of "tight" a measureable parameter? Is the frequency response of the seat important or just getting a sub that is the "tightest"? What internet direct subwoofer have you demoed? Which ones in the same place during the same listening session?

I don't like seeing what I believe to be true and have looked into as being fact from reputable sources being constantly refuted by someone with no evidence, limited real world experience, and a golden ear. I think this forum should strive to educate and share scientific knowledge with others in order to inform those interested in a/v. If you have any questions in furthering your understanding of subwoofers or small room acoustics I will do my best to answer or point you in the right direction. I have learned a ton here and don't mind being corrected if I am wrong as I learn something in the process. With your past posting history it is hard for me to understand your motives beyond personal gratification through trolling at its finest.
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post #59 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 10:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Nice dance around anything worthwhile. Random quotes from self proclaimed audiophiles with no factual evidence again? Why does anyone or I care what the uninformed have to say? I follow facts from actual scientific study. I have read enough silly claims from those who use their ears to judge. I use measurement devices to tell me what I am hearing. I love music and relate to none of those comments. I also like movies even more so now I have bad perception? I commend you on your white knight quest to educate those about a "subwoofer like the X-Ref 12 , as being, tight, articulate, and does not overwhelm the midrange or any of those things and is easy to set-up and integrate into a two channel system or multi-channel system music system." However the benefits of a subwoofer and bass management have been well documented for quite some time, as well as multiple point sources for smoothing the frequency response of the modal region. I am uninterested in the emotiva so we can leave it out of the discussion unless it is in relation to the science behind what makes it "tight" sounding.
Here are a couple facts for you.
"Neurologists, brain experts, hearing experts, and audio experts, all agree the human hearing system, by necessity, discards around 99.99% of what arrives at our ears."
"The science shows our audio memory starts to degrade after just 0.2 seconds. So if switching from Gear A to Gear B requires more than a fraction of a second you’re losing more information."
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html
from this thread
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1409061/sonic-transparency-and-listener-bias-what-we-hear
Your quote that I reposted above by earl geddes is a good one. Did you know he uses bandpass subwoofers?
A few more questions that would be helpful to myself and others if you could answer them so we can further see your background and authority on the subjects at hand.
Is your defenition of "tight" a measureable parameter? Is the frequency response of the seat important or just getting a sub that is the "tightest"? What internet direct subwoofer have you demoed? Which ones in the same place during the same listening session?
I don't like seeing what I believe to be true and have looked into as being fact from reputable sources being constantly refuted by someone with no evidence, limited real world experience, and a golden ear. I think this forum should strive to educate and share scientific knowledge with others in order to inform those interested in a/v. If you have any questions in furthering your understanding of subwoofers or small room acoustics I will do my best to answer or point you in the right direction. I have learned a ton here and don't mind being corrected if I am wrong as I learn something in the process. With your past posting history it is hard for me to understand your motives beyond personal gratification through trolling at its finest.

Chill out, you're getting way too personal. I'm over 8,000 post and you're complaining about me trolling. And yes I know he uses bandpass subs, I also know he doesn't use so-called expensive infrasonic subs that go down to 16hz. Also, you're bring up stuff I wrote about infrasounds and things I said about flat panel TV's that have nothing to do with this topic.
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post #60 of 93 Old 07-13-2012, 10:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jhan1000 View Post

"Feeling sick" is a far cry from "harm". I get real sick when I ride roller coasters, but it does not make them harmful. smile.gif
In addition, what you are citing is anecodotal evidence which is a far cry from evidence from rigorously performed human studies.

That is what I call being adversaly affected. What fool would subject themselves to that type of torture. Also, I have information, however I have refrained from dealing with ths topic because it seems to cause flame wars and personal attacks instead of the science itself.
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