The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 04:28 AM
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Great stuff Claude. Glad they are working for you biggrin.gif. Like I really had any doubts wink.gif. Haven't posted much in this thread but all I can say is what I have been saying. The Crowsons just add that extra layer of fun to all movies. I am so glad that I asked Craig if I could try them out. As I have said before, I will never have a system without them. Ever. Again, Claude. I am really happy that they worked out for you. Every movie will be like a new experience.

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post #32 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Just wanted to say a HUGE THANK YOU to MikeDuke, CraigJohn & BrolicBeast for recommending the Crowson Actuators! I received mine yesterday, 2 actually, one for my recliner and one for my wife’s recliner. I did a lil fine tuning and watched 4 full length movies on it since yesterday, demoed a few scenes from some other movies and listened to some music. I’ll do a full write up/review on them in a week or two once I have even more time with them but I had very high expectations going in and also had some reservations (i.e. gimmicky or unnatural feel). So far my worries/concerns are unfounded and my high expectations are exceeded –
smile.gif
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Holy Fornicating Excrement, Exceeded!!!” eek.gifeek.gif If ya’ know what I mean. eek.gifbiggrin.gif
I don't know what you mean... could you be more specific? biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #33 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 AM
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Claude, did you get the Butt Kicker BKA-1000N? If so, what level did you end up with. What 4 movies have you watched and what's on the list of movies to watch.

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post #34 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 09:12 AM
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Thanks again guys!smile.gif

Mike,
You are correct; I am running the Buttkicker BKA1000-N amp. I followed yours and Craig’s recommendation on starting off at a very low volume on the BKA amp and inching up the volume until I felt I had the appropriate tactile feeling. I am slightly under the 4th notch on the BK amp or right below the 10’oclock position. I think you said you were at the 3rd notch but I think I may need my gain a little more up since I am powering 2 Actuators in parallel. I tested a few movies with really low hard hitting content (like BlackHawk Down and WOTW) to see if the Actuator would make any funny noises or get warm and for the level I am using them at and it was VERY quiet and cool even after consecutive repeated demos.

I’ve watched the following movie:
Horton Hears a Who
Tron Legacy
The Amazing Spiderman
Demoted (I wanted to watch a non bass movie to see if the Crowson would some way ruin the experience of non bass heavy movies, so far it only enhances the experience in all movies tested...same for music too).

I have a lot more I plan to watch in the next week or two smile.gif

People might read this next paragraph and interpret as feeling fake or unnatural but on the contrary, I think it feels great! My wife and I watched Tron Legacy last night. We seen this movie at least twice in our home and once at an XD Theater that had very powerful bass. Prior to the Crowsons, my wife has commented in the past on specific scenes of this movie - like "That feels nice!" or "Wow, that was cool". Last night was the first time I heard her drop a Very Enthused Religious F-Bomb eek.gif during that movie. cool.gif After the movie, the wife also mentioned that I had a smile plastered on my face from the beginning of that movie to the point where the credits rolled biggrin.gif
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post #35 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Just wanted to say a HUGE THANK YOU to MikeDuke, CraigJohn & BrolicBeast for recommending the Crowson Actuators! I received mine yesterday, 2 actually, one for my recliner and one for my wife’s recliner. I did a lil fine tuning and watched 4 full length movies on it since yesterday, demoed a few scenes from some other movies and listened to some music. I’ll do a full write up/review on them in a week or two once I have even more time with them but I had very high expectations going in and also had some reservations (i.e. gimmicky or unnatural feel). So far my worries/concerns are unfounded and my high expectations are exceeded – “Holy Fornicating Excrement, Exceeded!!!” eek.gifeek.gif If ya’ know what I mean. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

Hey man, happy to help! They definitely are as accurate and faithful to the signal as one can ask for. I'm glad your expectations have been exceeded Claude! Tometimes I wish I had one in the office connected to my throat--so when I hum bass notes to myself, I'd feel a thousand upside-down fairies dancing upon the BrolicCheeks. lol....Once again, I'm very happy that you've found satisfaction in these great devices!
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post #36 of 2375 Old 01-25-2013, 10:04 AM
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TRON:Legacy is no joke. That has some serious bass in it. And Yep, if I remember correctly, I am right below 3 on the amp. That gives it a nice natural addition to the over all experience without calling too much attention to it.

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post #37 of 2375 Old 01-26-2013, 07:06 AM
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The more personal reviews I hear about these makes the anticipation greater but I must wait for the seats to arrive, with my luck everything shows at the same time:D

I am going to try either the beringer or buttkicker (both good choices) for amplification/crossover and use the Oppo-BDP 93 for a LFE source .
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post #38 of 2375 Old 01-26-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wkingincharge View Post

The more personal reviews I hear about these makes the anticipation greater but I must wait for the seats to arrive, with my luck everything shows at the same time:D

I am going to try either the beringer or buttkicker (both good choices) for amplification/crossover and use the Oppo-BDP 93 for a LFE source .
I have not had good luck with the Behringer amp when connected to the Oppo's analog subwoofer output. The Oppo puts out too low of a signal to drive the Behringer. If you want to use the Behringer with the Oppo, you'll want something like this to raise the signal level: http://www.henryeng.com/matchbox.html

Otherwise, all of us using the Buttkicker amp are really enjoying it. Just realize that there is the potential for the Buttkicker amp to overdrive the Crowson. If you start off with the Volume low, and slowly raise it until you get a satisfactory effect, you'll be fine. Just don't start out at full Volume or you'll overdrive the Crowson.

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post #39 of 2375 Old 01-28-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I have not had good luck with the Behringer amp when connected to the Oppo's analog subwoofer output. The Oppo puts out too low of a signal to drive the Behringer. If you want to use the Behringer with the Oppo, you'll want something like this to raise the signal level: http://www.henryeng.com/matchbox.html

Otherwise, all of us using the Buttkicker amp are really enjoying it. Just realize that there is the potential for the Buttkicker amp to overdrive the Crowson. If you start off with the Volume low, and slowly raise it until you get a satisfactory effect, you'll be fine. Just don't start out at full Volume or you'll overdrive the Crowson.

Craig
Tell me about it eek.gif. Even half power from the new BK amp may be too much. For my chair, with my setup, 3 on the amp is plenty. Battle for LA was just insane last night. Yea, I am glad I made Craig bring them over so I could try them out.

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post #40 of 2375 Old 01-28-2013, 04:04 PM
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Even though this is the Crowson thread, I have to say that I am impressed with the Buttkicker warranty support. I just bought a new Buttkicker 1000N amp and I have been having issues with it going out of sleep mode when there is no signal or RCA cable connected to it. The amp still works but as soon as I turn it on, it will move out of Standby/Sleep mode even if there is no signal to it or even if I disconnect the RCA cable that is sending it a signal. Since I just bought this amp, I would have just returned it and ordered a new one but since I just received my Crowson, I did not want any down time without an amp. A few emails and quick call to Buttkicker support explaining the symptoms and my situation and they are sending a new amp and will send me a UPS label to return the current amp at their cost. I am very impressed how quickly they responded and their willingness to help.
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post #41 of 2375 Old 01-29-2013, 09:53 PM
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I thought I would share my current setup experience with the Crowson may help assist others with their install. First, let me apologize for the VERY crappy pic.redface.gif This may be unique to my type of recliners but I am also finding out that, besides tweaking settings and volume adjustments, placement of the Crowson, in my case, is also essential for optimal and even more believable/real performance. I am currently using a Low pass filter set at 40Hz. I have 2 La-Z-boy rocka/recliners. These chairs recline but they are also rocking chairs. They have a set of dual springs underneath (see Yellow arrow in pic below for springs). I believe these springs may assist with the rocking feature and act like dampeners when the chair is rocking. I was concerned that these springs would actually absorb most of the tactile effect from the Crowson and I think they might absorb some but I still get an awesome experience over all. I notice if I place the Motion Isolators at 3 of the 4 corners of my chair and if I have the Crowson Actuator mounted on the back left leg (Green arrow in pic), it will shake the entire chair but at certain frequencies, I can tell the Crowson is mounted towards the back left (i.e. localization). If I use 4 Motion Isolators at each corner and mount the Crowson Actuator in the front middle of my chair (see Blue arrow), I get a little more shaking at the same volume settings especially at ultra low frequencies (5hz-15hz). Most of the energy is transported to the entire chair but there are times, when I am in the reclined position, where I can feel there’s more impact towards my legs vs the rest of my body. I usually watch movies in the reclined position. If I use 4 Motion Isolators at all 4 corners and place the Crowson Actuator directly under but in the middle of my chair (see Red arrow) I get impact that is even more believable. I do lose a little bit of feel in the 5-15hz with this set up but I have a very hard time determining which is bass from the subwoofer and which is the tactile effect coming from the Crowson until those Holy $h!+ moments eek.gif or until I turn off the Amp that is powering the Crowson. Again, this placement thing might be somewhat unique to my case since my chairs/seats are a little different (rockers) but I figured I would share since it may help someone else with their set up. Bottom line, in my case, placement experimentation seems to yield favorable results.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

I really like the fact that you can change the position of the Crowson so easily rather than un-mount/un-install and try to re-install at a different location that you may have to do with other types of transducers/shakers. It’s literally a matter of seconds, minutes at the most, to change the position of this device.
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post #42 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 09:35 AM
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After spending a few weeks with the Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators, I thought I would share my impressions of them. Long story short, I love these things!! I had very high hopes for them but also was very concerned about a gimmicky or unnatural/fake feel and I am more than satisfied with the results. I would highly recommend the Crowson Actuators! That pretty much sums it up….but if you want to read more…here we go smile.gif

Here’s a little background on my set up. My room is very small (1150cu ft) with carpet over concrete and it’s not sealed but opened to the rest of my house. A few years ago I owned a HSU VTF 3.2 sub that was positioned right next to my chair (nearfield). I later sold the HSU VTF 3.2 and replaced it with a Seaton SubMersive HP that sat in the same exactly nearfield location. The tactile experience with either one of these subs nearfield was great. Later, I moved the SubMersive to different locations and found that it sounded, blended and measured better when it was in front of the room but it also lost a lot of tactile feel around 25hz and below area.. The SubMersive had two modes (PGM1 and PGM2). PGM2 adds a little more lift towards the bottom end. I’ve experimented with different options and running the sub hotter and here’s what I found. In my room, running more than 4-5dbs hot in PGM1 will add a little more tactile feel but I cant go any hotter the sub would be easily localizable. If I run PGM2, I can’t run more than 2-3db hot in my little square-ish room or it sounds a tad too boomy or does not decay as fast and it’s also localizable. This is not a problem with the sub but I think it’s more of the characteristic of my room and room dimensions. I also have a 25hz lift option on my Anti-Mode device that boosts 20hz by 7db. This does add a little more feel in certain movies but can get somewhat boomy too in other movies. I noticed the response of the Lift mode looks more like a ported sub as the response falls off sharply below 13hz. Also with the lift mode engaged, Anti-Mode also turns on a subsonic filter at 10Hz. Bottom line is that while turning up the sub louder and or engaging PGM 2 or Anti-mode’s 25hz lift mode can add a little more feel but nothing really gave that tactile feeling of how the sub felt like when it was nearfield. Enter the Crowson.

My Crowson setup is also somewhat unconventional too but it works very well. I originally wanted to run mine exactly how other members (Craig John, MikeDuke and Brolicbeast) run theirs – via the Oppo bluray player sub out for an un-EQ’ed signal and to have fine tune ability over delay settings.….but then I realized I might be able to get away with running mine a little differently which might provide me with a some different options if I got lucky. I got lucky! smile.gif I have the Anti-Mode 8033 that I use to EQ my SubMersive HP. I then run Audyssey XT in my Onkyo 805 receiver after Anti-Mode is finished running. I noticed that Anti-Mode pulls down a slight peak at 20hz and a very large peak at 50hz in my small room. Audyssey XT does eliminate some additional ringing but most of its correction is above 50hz and the corrections are not overly aggressive. With this in mind, I used a Y splitter from the Sub preout of my receiver. There’s one Rca wire running off the splitter is heading towards the Anti-mode device and then to the SubMersive. The other RCA wire off the splitter is running to the Buttkicker 1000N amp that is powering the Crowson. So the SubMersive is seeing the full correction of the Anti-Mode and Audyssey combo but the Crowson is seeing only the minor corrections what of Audyssey did. I also have the Crowson low passed at 40Hz via the Butttkicker amp. I thought while this setup may work, it still may not solve any possible delay issues I may have with the Crowson Actuators. Prior to running my set up like this, I talked to Randolph Crowson about this set up and he stated it should work fine and he noticed that delays are not usually an issue in small rooms. There were other questions I asked him as well and Randolph was always willing and eager to help. In my small room, I can’t tell if I have any delay issues with how I have everything set up. Its possible I may have just gotten lucky with my overall settings. Running it this way allows the Crowson to be controlled with the Master Volume of the Onkyo 805 receiver and it allows me to use the Crowson with my Bluray and my HD-DVD player. I still have around 100 HD-Dvds so this was a plus. While this setup works very well for me as my Audyssey to the Crowson has minimal EQ below 50Hz, I would recommend everyone else may want to use the method Craig outlines in the first post of this thread or find a way to have very little to no EQ on the Crowsons. I think I just got very lucky with my setup and with the 2 EQ devices I am using. The hardest part about the Crowson install was running the speaker wires to the chairs – still very easy in my room. Installing the Motion Isolators on my chairs and placing the chair on the Crowson Actuator was very easy.

I’ve been blown away on how realistic the Crowson feel. These Actuators has never made any weird noises and they feel very similar to how my subs felt like when they were near field but even better. There are also things/effects I am now feeling that I never felt with sub in either location (nearfield or far field). Some of these effects feel very realistic and does not feel like vibrating at certain frequencies or shaking at other frequencies but the only way I can describe some is turbulence. For me, some effects around 25hz area always felt similar to turbulence or a shudder type feel when my subs were nearfield. It’s kind of hard to put into words but imagine you are in a car stopped at a stop light and another vehicle traveling over 50MPH in the oncoming lane. As soon as that vehicle passes you, the turbulence that hits your car makes your whole vehicle shudder. That’s the experience I had with the with the subs nearfield and that’s what I now have again with the Crowsons – that and much more. What I am trying to say here it feels very realistic and not just "shaking”. It’s also easier to detect even lower hz now and as other have noticed that owned the Crowson device, a 30hz effect feels different than a 10hz. I have watched over 2 dozen movies with these devices already and listened to some music and demoed scenes from various movies and I find that it improves everything. Some stuff is subtle and really enhances the mood being portrayed in a movie while other effects just rocked my world. eek.gif I’ve noticed we would previously watch some movies louder or close to reference before the Crowson to get a good feel for the bass in the movie, now we can watch the same movie at a lower volume and be even more submerged while having a more enjoyable movie experience. In my setup, it can feel somewhat unnatural if you turn up the Crowson too much or use too high of a crossover on them but similar can be said about turning up your sub too high without any EQ. It does take some minor tweaking to get great results. Now that I have experienced the Crowson, I can say that these will always have a place in my room or any other room I may have in the future. I don’t know if my little write up is conveying how greatly I think of this product so let me put it another way. If had the option to keep my beloved SubMersive HP and then choose between getting a 2nd SubMersive HP or choose a set of Crowson Actuators; in my room, I would choose the Crowsons over a 2nd SubMersive- regardless of price. eek.gifcool.gif

I feel these Crowson Actuators would greatly benefit anyone in the following scenaro:
  • You don’t have multiple subs or space for multiple subs.
  • You don’t have the option of turning up your subs because it will disturb others.
  • You just want more tactile feel.
  • If you don’t have the tactile feeling because your floor is concrete and or you are not in a sealed room (open floor plan).


Finally, I wanted to say it’s been a complete pleasure dealing with Randolph Crowson. He was very upfront about possible delays before I ordered and was still able to ship the product to me even earlier than anticipated. He never charged my account until the product was ready to ship. Randolph was very eager to help even with some very stupid questions I asked. He never made me feel like he had to rush to get off the phone and he always answered my emails quickly and with great details and suggestions. I inquired about possible discounts and he even informed me of a 10% Powerbuy. That discount coupled with the 30day risk free trail made this purchase a no brainer. The 30day risk free trail offer may seem like you have nothing to lose but Crowson’s the one with nothing to lose because once you try this and get it dialed in, I can’t see why someone would want to return it – it's That Spectacular in my opinion! biggrin.gif
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post #43 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 10:26 AM
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Really good review Claude. I am glad that they give you the "feeling" they are giving me. Like you, what I really like is that I can leave the MV lower sometimes, when I don't want to let it go wild, and still feel the bass that happening on the screen. It's also good that you found your own way to connect it to your system that works well for you. I watched a number of movies lately and the Crowson was really a benefit while I was watching them. It really puts you more into the movie then ever before. For me, I just leave it in one placement. I have it placed in the right front corner with the Isolators in the other three corners. This works well enough for me. It may be just slightly less of a shake when I am reclined but not enough for me to worry about it. It gives me a great tactile feel.

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post #44 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Claude,

That was a spectacular write up!!! Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. I'm glad you got your system to work using the subwoofer out on your receiver. As you point out, that setup does have some advantages over using the output of the BluRay player, (although I find that I prefer to NOT have the Crowson controlled by the MVC; I prefer to set it and then leave the level alone.) If you like being able to control it with the MVC, what do you do when you listen at lower levels? Do you manually adjust the BKA-1000?

It was ingenious to use the AntiMode first so that Audyssey's EQ would be less intrusive. (Mike Duke, this could be a workaround for you when you get your server.)

Your enthusiasm for the Crowson is infectious and contagious. I am really glad you're enjoying them as much as you are. I share your enjoyment and I agree with everything you said about the added benefits of these excellent products.

Here's what I like to do when I demo them for someone the first time... I don't tell them about the Crowsons; I just show them the subs. After a few minutes of the brontosaurus stampede scene in King Kong, they'll invariably turn to me and say "Those subs are incredible! I can feel my whole seat shaking!" That's when I show the the Crowsons. smile.gif

Keep on enjoying your terrific system. It's great that your wife shares your enthusiasm for this hobby. My wife does as well. Just the other night we were watching Flight. During the plane crash scene, she turned to me and said, "Hey, are the shakers not on?" She was right... I had turned the amp off and forgotten to turn it back on. The best part was, she asked me to rewind the movie so we could watch that scene again with the Crowsons. Gotta love her. smile.gif

Craig

PS. I also share your thoughts about Randy Crowson. I met him at CEDIA a few years ago, and he is as much a gentleman in person as he comes across on the phone. A while back I had to get one of my actuators repaired. It was out of warranty, and Randy only charged me $75 to basically replace the entire guts of the device. He even paid return shipping. Nice to see someone run their business with the customer first. I respect that!

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post #45 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 12:11 PM
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Craig, how would getting the Antimode be good for me? I thought(hoped) that all I needed to do was get the new OPPO and we would be good to go. Are you saying that if I get the Antimode, I WOULD NOT need the new OPPO or would I need both. Not that I am complaining but I don't want "budget creep" to start to rear its head with this thing. I just found out that I needed two more pieces of software that Dennis forgot to mention. So do I need both? Or is it one or the other. I thought getting the 103 was the work around we talked about that would let me use the Crowson with the server.

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post #46 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Craig, how would getting the Antimode be good for me? I thought(hoped) that all I needed to do was get the new OPPO and we would be good to go. Are you saying that if I get the Antimode, I WOULD NOT need the new OPPO or would I need both. Not that I am complaining but I don't want "budget creep" to start to rear its head with this thing. I just found out that I needed two more pieces of software that Dennis forgot to mention. So do I need both? Or is it one or the other. I thought getting the 103 was the work around we talked about that would let me use the Crowson with the server.
It would be an either/or proposition. Either will likely work. Actually the new Oppo would probably be better for you because you wouldn't need to change the level of the Crowson when you change MVC settings. The AntiMode would be another option, that's all.

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post #47 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 12:59 PM
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It would be an either/or proposition. Either will likely work. Actually the new Oppo would probably be better for you because you wouldn't need to change the level of the Crowson when you change MVC settings. The AntiMode would be another option, that's all.

Craig
Craig, I am sometimes easily confused tongue.gif. I am going to go with the new OPPO since I already figured that into my brain. It's a lot easier that way. I sprinkled my thoughts on the Crowson throughout my own thread. But not in this dedicated thread. I did not put together a dedicated review like Claude did though. I do remember though that when you brought it over to my place for a test drive, I did not want you to leave with it. It gives such a different feeling then just a sub alone. I really feel like I am getting all of the sound track. There are points in certain movies where there is no sound at all but my chair is still shaking because I am getting that really low bass. It is a really cool feeling. I will never have a system without it. I am glad that I had you bring it over for me to demo. I was not sure if I would be able to make it work with my chair. Am I glad I gave it a shot.

I know you remember my face when we put on WOTW. eek.gifeek.gif. You probably knew then that I was going to get one of these. Ever since I have had it in my system, the smile I get is bigger then it was before I had it in my system. I was unsure how it would feel. I remember our talk about the D-BOX and how much you disliked that. Then I was worried that since my chairs are not on a riser, and are not as beefy as yours, that it would be a bad combo. Well, I was wrong. The tactile feel is really hard to explain unless you experience it yourself. I have had it for a while now and even on movies where I don't expect it, it surprises me. So my review probably won't measure up to the review Claude just did. I will just say that it has added another dimension that I did not know existed. But it is good to know some of the posts I did write about this helped Matt and Claude go over the edge and consider getting these.

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post #48 of 2375 Old 02-13-2013, 02:51 PM
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Thanks for the kind words guys!
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Claude,

That was a spectacular write up!!! Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences. I'm glad you got your system to work using the subwoofer out on your receiver. As you point out, that setup does have some advantages over using the output of the BluRay player, (although I find that I prefer to NOT have the Crowson controlled by the MVC; I prefer to set it and then leave the level alone.) If you like being able to control it with the MVC, what do you do when you listen at lower levels? Do you manually adjust the BKA-1000? .

We’ve been watching most movies between -7 to -12 from Reference. The Sub channel/trim in the AVR is currently set to -5.0 and the Buttkicker amp is currently set at slightly below the 4th notch or right below the 10 o’clock position. I have raised the BKA amp slightly above the 10 o’clock position and it has worked well but there are a certain movies were it was just a tad too much (just a tad) so I backed it back down to slightly below the 10’oclock position. I use the same settings for music too but I usually listen in stereo mode at -10 to -25 on the MV. I think it works quite well as I really don’t notice any weirdness so far. I do notice there is very little effect/shaking at -25 on the MV but way more shaking when approaching -10 on the MV.

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It was ingenious to use the AntiMode first so that Audyssey's EQ would be less intrusive. (Mike Duke, this could be a workaround for you when you get your server.) .

Thanks again! I thought the idea was sound in theory but was not sure it would pan out that way. I'm glad it did but, thanks to you guys, I already had an excellent back up plan in the Oppo ! smile.gif

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Keep on enjoying your terrific system. It's great that your wife shares your enthusiasm for this hobby. My wife does as well. Just the other night we were watching Flight. During the plane crash scene, she turned to me and said, "Hey, are the shakers not on?" She was right... I had turned the amp off and forgotten to turn it back on. The best part was, she asked me to rewind the movie so we could watch that scene again with the Crowsons. Gotta love her. smile.gif

As much as I love the Crowson Actuators, I think the wife may enjoy them just as much if not more. She is aware they are not “Buttkickers” and aware that the actual name is “Crowson” but she chooses to lovingly call them “Thumpers” – must be a chick thing but now she has me doing the same in our home. redface.gif There were times where I would start a movie with the Crowson off and my wife would immediately tell me in a cute yet demanding voice, “Why are we not using the Thumpers?” I explained to her I just wanted to test it out to see how part of the movie felt without it and how it felt with it on. She understands my need/impulse to continuously test out these things so she is cool with that but I was a lil surprised that she is paying that much attention to it. When I was about to first order the Actuators, she asked me to just get one, and we could test it out in my chair and if she liked it we would get another. I figured with the 30 day risk free trail I may as well just order two and return one or both if she/we were not happy with them. After 3 days of living with the Actuators installed here’s the statement the wife made to me without me asking. “I am soooo glad you got these Thumpers. I did not want to say anything to you earlier but I thought they would feel weird and I was pretty sure I was not going to like them. I had no idea they would be THIS good and lifelike.” It would be one thing if my wife said this right after watching a bass heavy movie but she mentioned this out of nowhere while we were going for a walk around the local park. My point is we; all here at AVS, have a passion for this stuff and think about most of the time. My wife is also passionate about movies compared to other females I met but for her to just say this just out of nowhere kinda surprised me.


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So my review probably won't measure up to the review Claude just did. I will just say that it has added another dimension that I did not know existed.

I think your words speak to me way more than you give yourself credit for, Mike. If anyone reading this just click on the link in your signature and search for "Crowson", I think your thoughts would help push anyone over the edge like it did me.
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But it is good to know some of the posts I did write about this helped Matt and Claude go over the edge and consider getting these.

Hell Yes it did!!biggrin.gif
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post #49 of 2375 Old 02-14-2013, 06:01 AM
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I think your words speak to me way more than you give yourself credit for, Mike. If anyone reading this just click on the link in your signature and search for "Crowson", I think your thoughts would help push anyone over the edge like it did me.
Hell Yes it did!!biggrin.gif
Thanks Claude. I try my best smile.gif.

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Has anyone used the Crowson actuators with Roman's Fusion line of seating, such as the Escapes (see http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionCollection/index.html)? I am curious to know how the experience is with this particular line since it has a metal frame under it. I have been told that the Crowsons may not work as well under metal frames as they do under wood frames. The bottoms of Roman's chairs look similar to the ones BrolicBeast shows in his video earlier in this thread, so perhaps these work well with metal frames after all. Thanks for any input you can provide.
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Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post

Has anyone used the Crowson actuators with Roman's Fusion line of seating, such as the Escapes (see http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionCollection/index.html)? I am curious to know how the experience is with this particular line since it has a metal frame under it. I have been told that the Crowsons may not work as well under metal frames as they do under wood frames. The bottoms of Roman's chairs look similar to the ones BrolicBeast shows in his video earlier in this thread, so perhaps these work well with metal frames after all. Thanks for any input you can provide.
Crowson has several seating partners, but Roman's is not one of them. http://crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3467/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx

Nonetheless, it couldn't hurt to ask Randal Crowson. He may know of someone who has paired Crowson actuators with Roman seats. His phone number is on the "Support" page of the website.

I would think that a metal framed seat would benefit from some type of padding between the actuator and the frame to reduce any potential metallic noise. Otherwise, I would think they should work just fine. Be sure to use the isolation pads on the rest of the frame/feet.

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post #52 of 2375 Old 02-19-2013, 01:35 PM
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Thanks Craig. I spoke to Randy about this, but he is not familiar with Roman's chairs. I am hoping someone here has used the Crowson actuators with Roman's chairs and can share their experience.
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post #53 of 2375 Old 02-19-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post

Has anyone used the Crowson actuators with Roman's Fusion line of seating, such as the Escapes (see http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionCollection/index.html)? I am curious to know how the experience is with this particular line since it has a metal frame under it. I have been told that the Crowsons may not work as well under metal frames as they do under wood frames. The bottoms of Roman's chairs look similar to the ones BrolicBeast shows in his video earlier in this thread, so perhaps these work well with metal frames after all. Thanks for any input you can provide.

Greetings! My chairs rest entirely on metal (or would be if I wasn't using the essential crowson isolators.) Everything from the coupling location to the cross bars (under which my crowsons reside for each seat toward the rear) is metal. You'll find no issues with such a setup!
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post #54 of 2375 Old 02-21-2013, 06:21 AM
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My Crowson is also on metal. That's what the "feet" are for mine. We just screwed the risers into holes that were already there and placed the front left corner on the transducer. That corner is metal. I have had no issues and the sensation is really good.

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post #55 of 2375 Old 02-21-2013, 11:50 AM
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Well thanks to you guys (especially Bunga99's review smile.gif ) I ordered a Crowson kit early this week with 4 actuators and a pre-amp. Hoping it'll turn up today. I have a 7 channel power amp I only use to drive my surrounds, so going to use that to drive the Crowson. Never experienced a transducer of any description and don't even know anyone personally that has one. Just sort of stumbled across this thread several weeks ago and read right through, I'd heard of the BK system before but not Crowson. Anyway after reading heaps on the subject and in particular everything I could find on Crowson, I thought it's definitely something I want to get into one day. Well after reading Bunga99's review it drove me to actually enquire price wise and availability wise. Both turned out favourable. No actual retailer here in Oz nearby that I could drop in and check out so I'm purely buying on what I've read and especially from reading this thread (thanks Craig John smile.gif ). Not that I have any problem buying gear from the faith of reviews, that's how I came to own all my Seaton gear! Ordering this has pushed me also to build a new riser over my old one, I have a modular couch system I currently use as 2 rows. Decided to make it all one piece in a large U shape configuration, so I'm extending my riser to 3.2 meters and raising it also to 300mm high. It'll also mean I can effectively have all 4 Crowson actuators under the one piece of furniture. Can't wait. Stay tuned and thanks again to all the posters here. Cheers smile.gif

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post #56 of 2375 Old 02-21-2013, 01:47 PM
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Congrats and thanks for the kind words! smile.gif I’m sure you will love them but please post your thoughts of them after you have dialed them in and watched a few movies. It’s weird I originally thought these things were a tad on the expensive side but having experienced them for a month now, they seem like a bargain for what they do and how well they do it. cool.gif
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post #57 of 2375 Old 02-21-2013, 04:26 PM
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I finally have all my parts to finish my install of the Crowson's/Amp this weekend and hope to provide a quick reviews but its safe to assume my thoughts will be the same as many others before me lol!! We have a good list of movies this weekend that are already on the shelf to test them out with including Skyfall.
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post #58 of 2375 Old 02-23-2013, 06:37 AM
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Ok well I built my new riser and changed my two rows into one modular U shaped lounge and hooked up 2 Crowson actuators which I placed under the back feet of the couch section. Before I go into my initial impressions, I have a problem where certain scenes (wotw pod emergence, the incredibles, die hard 4) of bass heavy action triggers my amps protection circuit and switches off until the scene has passed or it recovers. The amp is a 7 channel amp and delivers approx 190 watts per channel. It is also powering my 4 surround speakers, so 6 of the 7 channels are in use (4 for surrounds, 2 for Crowson system, remaining channel spare). Is this problem simply I have no headroom and am driving it too hard? I have one of the Crowson discontinued pre-amps, I have the gain over halfway, is it just simply a case of backing this off until I don't trigger the power amps protection mode? Seems such a fine line between having it low enough not to trip my amp on the hard core bass scenes, but then not getting a good enough effect in lesser bass scenes/movies. Taking the LFE line from an Oppo93's sub out like others here are doing. Just need to sort this out as the effect of them is staggering and I want to put the other 2 I have in the system too, but if my amp is struggling now, what hope if I hook up a further 2 Crowsons? The first bit of gear I've ever bought that made my wife laugh out loud and say "what have you done to the subs?"

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post #59 of 2375 Old 02-23-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Ok well I built my new riser and changed my two rows into one modular U shaped lounge and hooked up 2 Crowson actuators which I placed under the back feet of the couch section. Before I go into my initial impressions, I have a problem where certain scenes (wotw pod emergence, the incredibles, die hard 4) of bass heavy action triggers my amps protection circuit and switches off until the scene has passed or it recovers. The amp is a 7 channel amp and delivers approx 190 watts per channel. It is also powering my 4 surround speakers. Is this problem simply I have no headroom and am driving it too hard? I have one of the Crowson discontinued pre-amps, I have the gain over halfway, is it just simply a case of backing this off until I don't trigger the power amps protection mode? Seems such a fine line between having it low enough not to trip my amp on the hard core bass scenes, but then not getting a good enough effect in lesser bass scenes/movies. Just need to sort this out as the effect of them is staggering! The first bit of gear I've ever bought that made my wife laugh out loud and say "what have you done to the subs?"
The Crowsons will take every bit of 190 watts. They'll handle up to 500 watts, so 190 will be just barely enough. If you're also using the amp to drive speakers, it could easily run out of headroom and go into protect mode. Most 190 watt amps will not deliver a true 190 watts when driving multiple channels simultaneously. They are specified driving just 2 channels, and the spec may even be at 1 kHz, not a true broadband signal. The power supplies are usually the limiting factor. What amp are you using?

The other potential issue is that you might be over-driving the amplifier inputs with the preamp. Without knowing the gain structure of the preamp or the input sensitivity of the amps, it's hard to know if this is the problem, but it is possible.

IMO, you would be better served by an independent, more powerful amp for your Crowsons. Several members are using the iNuke DSP1000 amp. Others are using the Buttkicker BKA1000. I believe either of these should be readily available in Australia, and neither is terribly pricey, (relative to the cost of the transducers anyway.)

Good luck, (and your last two sentences sum up the experience.) smile.gif

Craig

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post #60 of 2375 Old 02-23-2013, 07:26 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply Craig. The amp is an Electra Theatron 7 which to my knowledge only sells in Australia. It is very well regarded here and I was led to believe it can output 190 real watts in all seven channels simultaneously. The Crowson guy said It should be fine to do the job when I was ordering. Anyway if it turns out its not up to the task then I will have no hesitation adding a BK or similar amp. Even in my limited time with them, now that I've had a taste of Crowson I already know I couldn't not have them in my system! Amazing when the amp goes off and the effect stops that that is what I've had for years and thought was great, can't believe what I've been missing all this time!

Edit - I should add too that would I expect to be able to turn the gain up to close to max and not have the amp trip protection mode happen, not that anyone would but that a capable system could actually handle it if you did play it at "over the top levels"? Thanks.

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