The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 2342 Old 11-07-2016, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Thanks, that all make sense, and that was what i was thinking too. With one MA in each four corner, you get a Z "concentrated" movement, while with them in the rear, you get the tilt effect you speak of, that goes in several directions.

My couch consists of a interlocking right seat, a center section and a left seat. I made a wood frame to connect them all, and have one MA in each rear outer corner of that frame.
I LOVE the two Crowson's i have already, however i have two problems in really heavy scenes, like the famous deleted scene from Jurassic World, or choppers in Lone Survivor:
1. My amp goes in protect mode.
2. The thermal protection in the MA's gets triggered.

So if i get two more MA's, and mount them either in each front outer corner, or the rear inner corners of each seat, I get more headroom, AND more effective TR.

You read me?
I'm trying to decide between an inuke or crowson amp to power two crowsons. Can I ask what you use (specifically because of the protect mode/protection)
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post #842 of 2342 Old 11-07-2016, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thedudexxi View Post
I'm trying to decide between an inuke or crowson amp to power two crowsons. Can I ask what you use (specifically because of the protect mode/protection)
One that is cheap here in Norway, AODA MA200.

http://www.cn-aoda.com/product_detai...182&cateid=143

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post #843 of 2342 Old 11-08-2016, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
One that is cheap here in Norway, AODA MA200.

http://www.cn-aoda.com/product_detai...182&cateid=143
Thanks Nalleh!

Does anyone have a problem running two crowsons with an iNuke? Also, would it be best to run 2 off one channel of a 6000dsp? Or run each of their own channel?
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post #844 of 2342 Old 11-08-2016, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by thedudexxi View Post
Thanks Nalleh!

Does anyone have a problem running two crowsons with an iNuke? Also, would it be best to run 2 off one channel of a 6000dsp? Or run each of their own channel?
I've run two on an inuke 3000dsp. Both have more than enough power. Volume knobs typically were at the 10:00 position.

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post #845 of 2342 Old 11-19-2016, 03:58 PM
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A question about speaker wire hookup, to the Crowson D-501 amplifier.
I can't get the plastic plugs in the ends of the binding posts to budge, so that I can insert banana plugs.
The owners manual suggest using a small screw driver, but that's not working for me.
Can I just use the holes in the tops of the push pull post, to insert my banana plugs?

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post #846 of 2342 Old 11-19-2016, 04:38 PM
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Spoiler!


That's a photo I took of how I have the banana plugs inserted into the tops of the push pull binding posts.

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post #847 of 2342 Old 11-19-2016, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
Spoiler!


That's a photo I took of how I have the banana plugs inserted into the tops of the push pull binding posts.
Thats fine. As long as its not touching the receiver cab your fine using unturned wire, BP's or pins. If it does touch use electrical tape to insulate.
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post #848 of 2342 Old 11-19-2016, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
A question about speaker wire hookup, to the Crowson D-501 amplifier.
I can't get the plastic plugs in the ends of the binding posts to budge, so that I can insert banana plugs.
The owners manual suggest using a small screw driver, but that's not working for me.
Can I just use the holes in the tops of the push pull post, to insert my banana plugs?
I found that if you can total unscrew the plastic part they will pop out easy, but maybe you can't unscrew the plastic part? It takes some force. If not using a screw works, you don't need a drill like he uses but I suppose it would work.

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post #849 of 2342 Old 11-20-2016, 10:39 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post43534946

I recently posted some feedback in the above thread that had a lot to do with my Crowsons (linked post has a good explanation of the concept). So figured I'd re-post it here:

Thanks to all the great feedback, I added a 1200D behind my MLP. In my setup, placing it on a small table was a night and day difference vs on the floor. Raised to around chest height it started blending amazingly well with my Crowsons. It's even letting me turn up the Crowsons a notch or two and run them a bit more full range.

Not sure if I'm very sensitive to chest thump, but the 1200 definitely adds punch and dynamics to the midbass and can get my heart racing at times. It also brings out a layer of detail and crispness to a lot of the bass that without it starts to seem a bit "soft". If anything, SQ is improved given that my room has a large peak around 60hz and needs a lot of EQ. So adding the more "pure" nearfield midbass to the mix seems to be a plus.

The Crowsons are obviously great for coming up with low volume settings that still have good tactile and punch. But the way they work so well with the 1200 has taken my low volume settings to another level. That's actually been the biggest overall improvement in my setup and makes the 1200 purchase well worth it.
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post #850 of 2342 Old 11-21-2016, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 5mark View Post

Thanks to all the great feedback, I added a 1200D behind my MLP. In my setup, placing it on a small table was a night and day difference vs on the floor.
Why not add a second 12000 behind your MLP?
I have two identical sealed subs (flanking my MLP) and boy does it ever make a HUGE tactile difference!
And they actually perform better, sitting on the floor, rather than on raised platforms.

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post #851 of 2342 Old 11-21-2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Thats fine. As long as its not touching the receiver cab your fine using unturned wire, BP's or pins. If it does touch use electrical tape to insulate.
Actually, today I used a knife blade to get the plugs to pop out.

I'll be using three Y-splitters, to connect my four identical subs, to one of the sub out jacks on my receiver.
The other sub out jack, will be used to connect a cable, to my D-501 amp.
After the connections have been completed, do I have to rerun AccuEQ?
If yes, should I also have the D-501 turned on, so AccuEQ can detect that I have it connected to the sub out jack?
Or should I not rerun AccuEQ?

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post #852 of 2342 Old 12-02-2016, 11:14 AM
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Has anyone compared the new isolators to the old ones? I'm curious but at 35 bucks a pop I can't pull the trigger.
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post #853 of 2342 Old 12-02-2016, 11:18 PM
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Has anyone compared the new isolators to the old ones? I'm curious but at 35 bucks a pop I can't pull the trigger.
They're much more "squishy" than i was expecting.
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post #854 of 2342 Old 12-03-2016, 05:17 AM
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Has anyone compared the new isolators to the old ones? I'm curious but at 35 bucks a pop I can't pull the trigger.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post45740617
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post #855 of 2342 Old 12-03-2016, 06:18 AM
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post #856 of 2342 Old 12-03-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Has anyone compared the new isolators to the old ones? I'm curious but at 35 bucks a pop I can't pull the trigger.


Somebody tested them and said they were a significant improvement from the standard isolators, so I have them, but haven't finished installing my system yet to comment first hand.


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post #857 of 2342 Old 12-04-2016, 03:56 PM
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New sorbothane feet

After coolrda did the write up on them, which I thought was excellent btw, I was curious and gave Crownson a call. At that time Randolph Crowson was looking for feedback/testing and offered them to me at very good discount and ask that I provide some feedback which I did. He is no longer offering that discount but I think you can still save 10% using the AVS/power buy code when you call him. He did explain that these were not mass produced yet so that's why they are so expensive (35 bucks per isolator).

Before I get into my feedback on the new isolator, I wanted to say that coolrda also mentioned in this thread that he removed the pad under his carpet which made a nice improvement. I did the same and also noticed an improvement - enough to leave the pad out from under my chair. He also mentioned that when he removed the pad, he noticed a lil too much feel in the midbass region from the Crowsons and I noticed the same thing at times even though I have mine low passed at 40hz.

I am using rocker/recliner Lazboy chairs. When I got the new Isolator feet, I experimented with some of the new feet in front and the old isolator feet in the back and vice versa - then new isolator feet in all corners vs the old. I must changed the new isolator feet to the old and then back again at least a dozen times and my subjective feedback is they are an improvement over the old feet. There's a little feel more below 25hz with the new feet but the midbass no longer feels a lil hot but feels more more natural. I think most of us that experienced the Crowsons chose them over other transducers/actuators because of how natural they feel and while the new feet adds a lil more feel ( in my set up) below 25hz, the entire experience from the Crowsons and the new feet feel even more natural than it did with the old feet - not a night and day difference but a more natural feel. Depending on your chair/seats/set up YMMV.

My wife has the same exact recliner but had the old feet and a Crowson under it. We were watching Earth to Echo one day and she stated how great it felt in her chair and asked to sit in my chair. She sat in my chair and we replayed the same scene and she said "your chair feels more balanced and has a little more feel than mine". I ordered a set for her chair shortly after that comment.

I am not sure but I think most things you buy from Crowsons have a 30day trial period - if these qualify for that 30 day trial then it's worth a try as you have nothing to lose.

Randolph did mention that they noticed in their "destructive testing" that the new isolators can get damaged if you install then on your chair and then move your chair by dragging the chair across the floor so that is something to keep in mind. If you try to move your chair with the new feet installed, it's best to lift the chair and not drag it across the room.

Hope that helps.
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post #858 of 2342 Old 12-04-2016, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post
After coolrda did the write up on them, which I thought was excellent btw, I was curious and gave Crownson a call. At that time Randolph Crowson was looking for feedback/testing and offered them to me at very good discount and ask that I provide some feedback which I did. He is no longer offering that discount but I think you can still save 10% using the AVS/power buy code when you call him. He did explain that these were not mass produced yet so that's why they are so expensive (35 bucks per isolator).

Before I get into my feedback on the new isolator, I wanted to say that coolrda also mentioned in this thread that he removed the pad under his carpet which made a nice improvement. I did the same and also noticed an improvement - enough to leave the pad out from under my chair. He also mentioned that when he removed the pad, he noticed a lil too much feel in the midbass region from the Crowsons and I noticed the same thing at times even though I have mine low passed at 40hz.

I am using rocker/recliner Lazboy chairs. When I got the new Isolator feet, I experimented with some of the new feet in front and the old isolator feet in the back and vice versa - then new isolator feet in all corners vs the old. I must changed the new isolator feet to the old and then back again at least a dozen times and my subjective feedback is they are an improvement over the old feet. There's a little feel more below 25hz with the new feet but the midbass no longer feels a lil hot but feels more more natural. I think most of us that experienced the Crowsons chose them over other transducers/actuators because of how natural they feel and while the new feet adds a lil more feel ( in my set up) below 25hz, the entire experience from the Crowsons and the new feet feel even more natural than it did with the old feet - not a night and day difference but a more natural feel. Depending on your chair/seats/set up YMMV.

My wife has the same exact recliner but had the old feet and a Crowson under it. We were watching Earth to Echo one day and she stated how great it felt in her chair and asked to sit in my chair. She sat in my chair and we replayed the same scene and she said "your chair feels more balanced and has a little more feel than mine". I ordered a set for her chair shortly after that comment.

I am not sure but I think most things you buy from Crowsons have a 30day trial period - if these qualify for that 30 day trial then it's worth a try as you have nothing to lose.

Randolph did mention that they noticed in their "destructive testing" that the new isolators can get damaged if you install then on your chair and then move your chair by dragging the chair across the floor so that is something to keep in mind. If you try to move your chair with the new feet installed, it's best to lift the chair and not drag it across the room.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the review!

Hmm I bet I could get away with putting the Crowson under the metal frame at the rear of my chair and then 1 isolator on each left and right front of the frame so I'd only have to buy 2.
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post #859 of 2342 Old 01-18-2017, 05:01 PM
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This thread's been quiet for awhile, but I wanted to post initial impressions of my Crowson experience. I own a Mariana Deep Sea Sound 24" sub with a 4k amp and I'm also using 3 Behringer 1200's behind the seats for midbass. The Crowsons, in my system, offer the most impact of all, and by a wide margin. They are also very easy to setup and dial in. I am having an issue, however, blowing fuses. I just blew the second fuse on the Crowson amp. I'm trying to get in touch with Mr. Crowson to see what can be done. Meanwhile, does anyone know what spec fuse I need with this amp? Thanks


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post #860 of 2342 Old 01-18-2017, 05:23 PM
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This thread's been quiet for awhile, but I wanted to post initial impressions of my Crowson experience. I own a Mariana Deep Sea Sound 24" sub with a 4k amp and I'm also using 3 Behringer 1200's behind the seats for midbass. The Crowsons, in my system, offer the most impact of all, and by a wide margin. They are also very easy to setup and dial in. I am having an issue, however, blowing fuses. I just blew the second fuse on the Crowson amp. I'm trying to get in touch with Mr. Crowson to see what can be done. Meanwhile, does anyone know what spec fuse I need with this amp? Thanks


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Is your crowson on a shared circuit with other electronics and/or lights? If it is, try plugging in to another circuit.
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post #861 of 2342 Old 01-18-2017, 05:41 PM
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Is your crowson on a shared circuit with other electronics and/or lights? If it is, try plugging in to another circuit.


It is in a circuit with other components, but it's a 20 amp circuit, so I doubt it's being overtaxed. Worth a shot, though, once I get a new fuse installed, thanks.


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post #862 of 2342 Old 01-25-2017, 07:22 PM
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Wow 3 1200's are blowing you off of your chair? lol that seems crazy, yet other guys are blown away by one.

So whatever happened with the amp and the fuse, anything yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
This thread's been quiet for awhile, but I wanted to post initial impressions of my Crowson experience. I own a Mariana Deep Sea Sound 24" sub with a 4k amp and I'm also using 3 Behringer 1200's behind the seats for midbass. The Crowsons, in my system, offer the most impact of all, and by a wide margin. They are also very easy to setup and dial in. I am having an issue, however, blowing fuses. I just blew the second fuse on the Crowson amp. I'm trying to get in touch with Mr. Crowson to see what can be done. Meanwhile, does anyone know what spec fuse I need with this amp? Thanks


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post #863 of 2342 Old 01-26-2017, 02:41 AM
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Wow 3 1200's are blowing you off of your chair? lol that seems crazy, yet other guys are blown away by one.



So whatever happened with the amp and the fuse, anything yet?


Actually, there's a row of 3 chairs with one 1200 behind each, but it has turned out to be a fantastic mid bass solution. Mr. Crowson did contact me with the fuse information, but no one near me has them, so I had to order them online. He asked me what level the amp was set at. I've been setting it between 25 and 30 (the max). Could this be an issue? Possibly overtaxing the amp?


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post #864 of 2342 Old 01-27-2017, 11:53 AM
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Actually, there's a row of 3 chairs with one 1200 behind each, but it has turned out to be a fantastic mid bass solution. Mr. Crowson did contact me with the fuse information, but no one near me has them, so I had to order them online. He asked me what level the amp was set at. I've been setting it between 25 and 30 (the max). Could this be an issue? Possibly overtaxing the amp?


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Yes, having the gain set to max means either you need to increase your input signal or may need a more powerful amp or more transducers to lighten the load. Here's a simple explanation on the subject in regard to speaker amps.

"Improper level settings can also cause problems with breaking amplifier channels. If an amplifier's Gain or Bass controls are turned up too high, it can cause "excessive clipping". Excessive clipping occurs when the gain or bass controls on the amplifier are set to a higher sensitivity than they should be, based on the signal level coming from the source unit (or another processor before the amplifier). Excessive clipping may make an amplifier shut down early from thermal or overload protection, or can cause speakers to sound distorted. Excessive clipping does not burn up speakers, excessive power does as we'll explain below.

For example, if you have a 4-Volt source unit and the gain control at the amplifier is set all the way up (it's most sensitive position - it thinks you're sending 500 millivolts (0.5 Volt) into the amp,) the amplifier will make full power almost immediately! As you turn the volume up higher, the amplifier makes maximum power right away and simply "holds" it there for a longer period of time. This extra time that the amp makes max power sounds like "distortion", and sounds pretty bad, but it isn't distortion - it's the amplifier sending that extra energy (Power/Watts) directly to the speaker. Excessive power applied to speakers can burn the voice coils!

This problem can also be created by equalizers that have the bass levels adjusted way too high, as the specific frequency that gets boosted is being reproduced by the amplifier as best it can, but the amp cannot produce any more power than it already is making at that frequency, so it just "holds" the output level at maximum. The amplifier may shut down or blow its fuse to protect itself. If this scenario happens too many times, the amplifier will usually fail and require repair."

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post #865 of 2342 Old 01-28-2017, 06:27 PM
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Hey all! I read this topic in full last fall but have finally (after much research and flip flopping) decided that a pair of Crowson TT will definitely be my next addition. I have yet to read anyone that isn't extremely impressed with their Crowsons. I'll be running the pair of tranducers off an undetermined amplifier and could use some suggestions with what amp has been working best for everyone.

I have a miniDSP, so EQ on the amp is not necessary, and I don't need most of the features of the D-501. I've looked at most amps from Behringer, Crown, etc., but haven't had much luck finding any that aren't reported to be fairly noisy (even with fan mods) to have in a non-dedicated room, and I'll likely place the amp on an endtable shelf directly to the right of the MLP.

Among reasonably priced pro amps (<$600), Crown seems to be the winner for overall reliability and performance with Behringer Inuke (non DSP) being absurdly cheap per watt. I've read the Crown XLS series has a HPF at 20Hz, but I forget how steep, if so that's obviously not ideal.

I've even considered a quality Speaker Power plate amp, which would be silent and reasonably cheap; specifically, the 700 watt/4ohm for $399 would work great if I can safely wire the 8ohm Crowson in parallel for a 4ohm load.

Thanks again, any amp suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
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post #866 of 2342 Old 01-28-2017, 07:32 PM
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I use a iNuke6000DSP for my crowsons, with Noctua fans and modified with some additional capacitors to extend the low frequency response flat somewhere around the low frequency spec of the transducer. The cap mod is documented in an older DIY forum thread linked in my amp build thread in my sig if you are interested. The newer iNukes are reported to be quieter, either because of different fans or a fan speed controller, and other forum members use the 3000DSP to drive Crowsons without any complaints. The one nice thing about the iNuke is DEQ in the DSP, because the Crowsons are nice with additional DEQ at low/med volume.

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Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
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post #867 of 2342 Old 01-28-2017, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
I use a iNuke6000DSP for my crowsons, with Noctua fans and modified with some additional capacitors to extend the low frequency response flat somewhere around the low frequency spec of the transducer. The cap mod is documented in an older DIY forum thread linked in my amp build thread in my sig if you are interested. The newer iNukes are reported to be quieter, either because of different fans or a fan speed controller, and other forum members use the 3000DSP to drive Crowsons without any complaints. The one nice thing about the iNuke is DEQ in the DSP, because the Crowsons are nice with additional DEQ at low/med volume.
Thanks a lot; I forgot reading a number of people that really liked the DEQ in the Inukes for lower volume tactile boost. I already bought a fan and all the necessary cables to mod an Inuke, but my concern was with people still having them go into protection mode with slower/quieter fans and that even with it modded it'll still be a little too loud just a few feet away. Perhaps the latest models are quieter...guess I could just take the plunge and find out.

How many transducers are you running off your NU6000DSP?

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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post #868 of 2342 Old 01-28-2017, 09:10 PM
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The best INuke fan mod is to install a 120mm fan & Adapter. More airflow with quieter fan. I'm using the INuke 3000DSP and an Antec TriQuiet fan.
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post #869 of 2342 Old 01-29-2017, 01:32 AM
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What fans did you buy? I put these in

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have an Inuke DSP 3000 and DSP 6000. After I put the Noctuas in and haven't had any problems with them shutting down and they are very quiet. I have run both pretty hard powering not only subs but the Crowsons. I am always messing around with different DIY subs so they have had a variety of loads on them. I think part of it is the luck of the draw. And maybe not the tightest tolerances on a cheaper amp and so there are some variations. Because some people can mod their Inukes and have zero problems and another person changes the fans and it doesn't work.

One thing I don't like is the DSP models POP freaking LOUD if you cut the power to them. Like using those energy saver power strips that turn them off automatically. Scares the crap out of you, even if you know it is going to happen

And the ugly orange light, that can be modded too and there is a thread here about it.

The cheapest I see them for new is around $225 dsp3000 and $275dsp6000 but I didn't look to hard or they come up for sale used pretty frequently on here. I wouldn't get the smaller $175 dsp1000 but then I like being able to run mine so hot it about bucks me out of my chair . Not really but it is nice to have enough power. Can always turn the gain or limiter down. But if you don't have enough you can't turn it up more. And it is not much more $$ for the bigger amps plus you will be stressing them less so they will run cooler


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Thanks a lot; I forgot reading a number of people that really liked the DEQ in the Inukes for lower volume tactile boost. I already bought a fan and all the necessary cables to mod an Inuke, but my concern was with people still having them go into protection mode with slower/quieter fans and that even with it modded it'll still be a little too loud just a few feet away. Perhaps the latest models are quieter...guess I could just take the plunge and find out.

How many transducers are you running off your NU6000DSP?

Last edited by bscool; 01-29-2017 at 01:35 AM.
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post #870 of 2342 Old 01-29-2017, 06:26 AM
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What fans did you buy?

And maybe not the tightest tolerances on a cheaper amp and so there are some variations. Because some people can mod their Inukes and have zero problems and another person changes the fans and it doesn't work.

One thing I don't like is the DSP models POP freaking LOUD if you cut the power to them. Like using those energy saver power strips that turn them off automatically.

And it is not much more $$ for the bigger amps plus you will be stressing them less so they will run cooler
I bought this fan per several iNuke mod forum recommendations: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00H3...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have mostly noctua fans in my desktop PC, so I am a fan of them. 😃

The loud popping doesn't sound good, because I had planned on using a power strip for it, and it'll be right next to me.

Are there extra holes in the iNuke amp frame along the top for ventilation? If so, I may just set up a custom USB fan controller with 2-4 fans like I run on my receiver. Though spending another $50-75 on cooling defeats some of the purpose of going with behringer.

I bet the NU6000 would run quite a bit cooler, as it has 2-3 times the RMS power on tap per channel than a single crowson can even handle. And as you said, some people's mod success seems to be luck of the draw with more relaxed tolerances on parts and quality control.

I think that some of the iNuke features are outstanding for the price, but the chance of it failing to work as needed in a home environment after heavily modifying it, is what put me off buying one last fall...decisions decisions.

Thanks again for your input!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
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