The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 40 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1171 of 2393 Old 11-05-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Yeah it can be kind of tricky, especially when throwing lip sync in there. I had to mess with delays for lip sync and time alignment with the subs from the AVR and MA's/TT's from the OPPO . VibSensor really helps with TA of the Crowsons and Subs. If its off, they can cancel each other out at certain frequencies kind of like two subs out of phase can (a little or a lot). If it's off a fair amount, it can really be felt subjectively. Craig John (thread starter) had a couple of good explanations somewhere around here on how to get the timing close for starters when using the OPPO.
Does anyone have a general idea of how far back that info can be found? I would love to read it.

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post #1172 of 2393 Old 11-05-2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Yep. I know its been written that even TA thats 30ms off isn't an issue with subs such as front rear array. I can easily hear the difference that change in delay does to the magnitude response. But i guess its not terribly objectionable. I found though, that when it comes to TR, theres a considerable difference with 3ms, like huge, when the MA's are put in play. Even 1ms can be felt. I've found that to be the big problem guys are having with integrating the Crowsons in their system, far more so than having an EQ issue. It really does cancel/null your TR and robs one of performance. Thats why I run all subs off one channel after REQ and setup is done. While I can feel the difference, VS does back that up. Best way to describe it is when properly setup, ULF transients have a razor sharp, defined quality to them.
I think this empirical observation/confirmation is solid gold. Thanks!
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post #1173 of 2393 Old 11-05-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Yep. I think it was Not that has a preamp with 3 subouts so he has a dedicated output.
But does his preamp allow independent magnitude and delay compensation for each of the separate subouts? Ideally you would want the normal subout doing what most AVRs already do today, ie, performing some sort of auto-REQ to correct magnitude response + delay settings to match phase to each of the LCR main and surround channels. For the AVR subout dedicated to the TTs, it sounds like its settings would be more straight forward based on what was posted earlier. The TT channel only needs a flat curve for its magnitude response from a couple Hertz to an upper cutoff around 40 Hz + a small variable delay to offset the distance from the subwoofers to the TT seat cushions minus any group delay in the TT's output. Of course any global processing delays (for example lip sync) would have to be included in all of the AVR's pre-outs including the subouts.

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post #1174 of 2393 Old 11-06-2017, 05:52 AM
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Earlier in this thread @coolrda suggested a method to get a flat, untreated signal to the MA’s by using auto-eq in REW and Minidsp.

So in short you do a quick REQ calibration, and then measure in REW both with and without REQ. Then use auto eq in REW to get the no-REQ curve to look as similar as possible to the REQ FR curve.

This may take a few tries, but i ended up with this.



So basically REQ (Audyssey in my case) does nothing to the LFE, and leaves a almost clean signal to the MA’s.

And then just use MINIDSP to manually eq the subs.
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post #1175 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 11:09 AM
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hey guys,
just ordered the level 3 crowson system,
Is there a difference between going from the amp to the transducer 1 then wire that to transducer 2 vs running both transducer's separately to the amp? is one way better then the other?


Thanks
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post #1176 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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Is anyone using the XLR output of their 1200D to feed the XLR input on the iNuke amp for the MAs? This would be the easiest for me, just wondering if there are any drawbacks...like, is the output from the 1200D just a straight pass-thru?
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post #1177 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdb1276 View Post
hey guys,
just ordered the level 3 crowson system,
Is there a difference between going from the amp to the transducer 1 then wire that to transducer 2 vs running both transducer's separately to the amp? is one way better then the other?


Thanks
Since there are only two outputs on the D-501 amp and you have 4 MAs, you are going to have to wire each pair of MAs in parallel. Have you looked at the Owner's Guide?
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post #1178 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Since there are only two outputs on the D-501 amp and you have 4 MAs, you are going to have to wire each pair of MAs in parallel. Have you looked at the Owner's Guide?
Hey, just seeing if there would be a difference running the Paraellel separately to the amp or going from one transducer to the other so one wire to the first transducer then wire from that to the other one are run both of them directly to the amp
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post #1179 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 01:16 PM
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You said you ordered the Level 3 System....that comes with 4 transducers. Are you only hooking up two of them??
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post #1180 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You said you ordered the Level 3 System....that comes with 4 transducers. Are you only hooking up two of them??
I think he's running two MA's to each output of his amp. (I could be wrong.)

And he's wondering if he can get by with daisy-chaining the speaker wires, instead of running a dedicated wire to each MA.

And to the OP, the answer is there is no intrinsic benefit to running independent wiring to each one. You do have to pay attention to series/parallel connection considerations however, regardless. (But it sounds like you're already aware of that.)
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post #1181 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 02:21 PM
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Well, you have to daisy chain if you have one 501 amp and 4 transducers, correct? Doesn't the 501 have 2 stereo outputs??
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post #1182 of 2393 Old 11-07-2017, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
I think he's running two MA's to each output of his amp. (I could be wrong.)

And he's wondering if he can get by with daisy-chaining the speaker wires, instead of running a dedicated wire to each MA.

And to the OP, the answer is there is no intrinsic benefit to running independent wiring to each one. You do have to pay attention to series/parallel connection considerations however, regardless. (But it sounds like you're already aware of that.)


correct,I didn't know if there was a difference in running transducers separately to one channel of the amp, so each one separate wire to one channel of the amp or running one wire to the first transducer then going to the second one from there. they are both running parallel just different ways of doing it. so 2 transducers per amp channel
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post #1183 of 2393 Old 11-08-2017, 06:22 PM
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Hi folks

After being a long time observer of this forum, I'm ready for enlightenment - so thought I'd say hi.

My very modest movie room (compared so some of the beasts I've seen here!!) is currently setup with projector and 7.2 sound, via a Yamaha v681.
I have MakeMKV'd our dvd and bluray collection into my plex server (in a separate room) and watch them via the plex app on a Roku 3.
Like many here, I'm not one for watching movies anywhere close to reference levels, so I'm excited for the addition of some Crowson Tech to round out the bottom end experience.

I've got a single 3 seater recliner (middle doesn't recline), where the seats interlock together (and I've zip-tied to keep them together), so I will need to construct a timber frame underneath (as other's have done successfully) to provide a stable base and use 2 MAs under that, with a few extra isolators.

I'm also on carpet over concrete, and have seen the cool mods people have made to remove either underlay and/or carpet under the MA's to reduce lost energy - just wondering if anyone's thought of creating spikes to install under the MA in this situation ? Might be a useful improvement option in a future version Mr Crowson

I'm now just working out how to power the MAs - I'd prefer to get the Crowson amp, but the cost in Australia is nothing to sneeze at (it alone would cost me double what my AVR cost), so I'm considering what 3rd party Amp to use where the only other purchase is the actual MAs, and isolators from Crowson. If I understand correctly, I could possibly use an iNuke 6000DSP so I can play with EQ on the signal for boost at lower levels, and I wouldn't need the Crowson Pre-Amp.

Also depending on my experience once this is all set up, and what Amp (& EQ options it has), I may feel the need to tap into the HDMI signal before the Yamaha, and route it directly to the Amp for the MAs - but I'll worry about that later, if I need to!

Cheers,
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post #1184 of 2393 Old 11-09-2017, 08:46 AM
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^^^ Welcome to AVS. The Crowsons are a great addition and should add a lot to your HT experience. I hear what you're saying regarding the Crowson amp, I wish it were more affordable but since it's not I'm running the iNuke 6000DSP and have found it to work great so far.

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post #1185 of 2393 Old 11-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I really lean towards the Inuke 6000 because for around $100 more you get twice the power. Might not ever need it but it sure is nice when you do need it and it is there for another Crowson or NF sub or MBM etc. But the 3000 will work fine.

One thing to anyone with Inukes if you haven't registered them and it is less than 90 days register it now! The Inukes have issues once and a while and I see it popping up more and more on AVS lately about people having issues and it is just over a year and they didn't register. And the 3-year warranty is only if you register within the first 90 days of purchase otherwise it is only 1 year.

I had my Inuke 3000 go out(red rings) at just over a year(1 year and 1 week). And no I didn't register it within 90 days because if something is going to go wrong with an amp it will happen within a year, right?

Some guys have had luck getting it repaired after the year without registering but when I filled out the RMA online it was denied for being out of warranty. And I cant say I didn't know because Northern Sound & Light even emailed me when I bought it to register it within 90 days

Also, make sure when you register you get a confirmation email or it might not have gone thru because I have seen others post about they had that issue also and having problems getting the warranty to cover it because the registration didn't go thru.
@bscool I want to thank you for this post. I'm really lazy when it comes to filling out registrations but your post lit a fire under me (well kind of, it still took me a couple of weeks to do it). And your advice to make sure you get a confirmation email was dead on. I sent it in last week and I still hadn't heard back so I emailed them to inquire what the status was.

I'll say this for them, they responded to my inquiry with in an hour and had my registration completed in less than 24 hours. Good customer service after I made my inquiry. But I would never have thought to send a follow up email if it had not been for this post. Thanks again.

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post #1186 of 2393 Old 11-14-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Is anyone using the XLR output of their 1200D to feed the XLR input on the iNuke amp for the MAs? This would be the easiest for me, just wondering if there are any drawbacks...like, is the output from the 1200D just a straight pass-thru?


Yes, this works great. The signal is cleanly passed through my daisy chained B1200’s into the iNuke 6K, and you can adjust the Crowson delay in the DSP further to taste.
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post #1187 of 2393 Old 11-17-2017, 09:29 AM
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^^^

Thanks Sekosche!

New question:
I haven't been able to order my Crowson yet, probably next week though. I was just wondering last night, what happens if the MA is on but the chair is empty?? My wife watches alone sometimes but only watches TV (Tivo and Netflix shows mostly at fairly modest MV levels) but she sits in her own chair.

If I leave the MA on 24/7 and she is watching alone, will my chair be hopping up and down and/or rattling???
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post #1188 of 2393 Old 11-17-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
New question:
I haven't been able to order my Crowson yet, probably next week though. I was just wondering last night, what happens if the MA is on but the chair is empty?? My wife watches alone sometimes but only watches TV (Tivo and Netflix shows mostly at fairly modest MV levels) but she sits in her own chair.

If I leave the MA on 24/7 and she is watching alone, will my chair be hopping up and down and/or rattling???
I have 3 theater chairs with MAs (2 Crowsons & 1 Buttkicker Advance). My center chair shares an armrest with a chair next to it so the Crowson on that chair is actually helpful. In any event, it'll be highly unlikely you'll ever hear the Crowsons and the vibrations would likely be very subtle in an unoccupied seat. From time to time, my Buttkicker may make a rattling sound but that's because I have everything cranked up to the max. I like to run both my subs and MAs very hot.

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post #1189 of 2393 Old 11-17-2017, 10:39 PM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
I have 3 theater chairs with MAs (2 Crowsons & 1 Buttkicker Advance). My center chair shares an armrest with a chair next to it so the Crowson on that chair is actually helpful. In any event, it'll be highly unlikely you'll ever hear the Crowsons and the vibrations would likely be very subtle in an unoccupied seat. From time to time, my Buttkicker may make a rattling sound but that's because I have everything cranked up to the max. I like to run both my subs and MAs very hot.


I agree, you’ll likely never notice they’re on. Even when I ran some max output tests for VibSensor with the EOT intro, the Crowson were totally silent (by design). I suppose it depends a tad on your furniture, but the weight of the chair is enough to prevent any odd noises or vibrations from escaping via the actuator. Butt kickers and other shakers are a different animal, so no worries for you there @Alan P
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post #1190 of 2393 Old 11-20-2017, 01:25 PM
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getting my crowson system hooked up I have noticed that they don't seem to play with tv content. Is anyone using them with tv watching?
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post #1191 of 2393 Old 11-20-2017, 03:29 PM
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I've never noticed deep bass on TV shows compared to movies and music.
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post #1192 of 2393 Old 11-21-2017, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdb1276 View Post
getting my crowson system hooked up I have noticed that they don't seem to play with tv content. Is anyone using them with tv watching?


I don’t turn them in for most TV viewing, because even the solid shows with audio these days are largely underwhelming compared to a good bass flick on disc. When time allows, I leave them on for the Netflix Punisher series and premium shows of that nature. Although the quality of the current crop of shows from HBO (Game of Thrones), Showtime (Ash vs Evil Dead), and Netflix content is vastly improved from years ago, most TV series have significantly compressed audio with anemic bass at best. IMO, if you have a strong subwoofer setup, you won’t miss much TR action from TV.

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post #1193 of 2393 Old 11-24-2017, 11:52 AM
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Hey All,

Wow, finally finished this whole thread and took me dang near a whole week. Glad I did though as you all are super helpful. My Level 3 is coming today and I just wanted to get some advise. I have a full 3 cushion couch and a 2 cushion couch (love seat) with wood frames on carpet (non-premium pad). Do you guys think it would be more beneficial to mount full ply under both the couches, or just run 1x6" runners from edge to edge to add some rigidity to them? I was also going to put a piece of ply under the MA's and Sorbo feet. Thoughts?

Thanks, Casey

You can see my old Aura setup under the couch. They finally died.
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post #1194 of 2393 Old 11-25-2017, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CaseyH71 View Post
Hey All,



Wow, finally finished this whole thread and took me dang near a whole week. Glad I did though as you all are super helpful. My Level 3 is coming today and I just wanted to get some advise. I have a full 3 cushion couch and a 2 cushion couch (love seat) with wood frames on carpet (non-premium pad). Do you guys think it would be more beneficial to mount full ply under both the couches, or just run 1x6" runners from edge to edge to add some rigidity to them? I was also going to put a piece of ply under the MA's and Sorbo feet. Thoughts?



Thanks, Casey



You can see my old Aura setup under the couch. They finally died.


Are you in concrete or a suspended floor? If suspended, you probably don’t need to make any modifications. If concrete, I’d add a sheet of 3/4 plywood under all you seating. No need to add wood under the actuators or feet, however. Please report when you have it all online.


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post #1195 of 2393 Old 11-25-2017, 05:26 PM
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Are you in concrete or a suspended floor? If suspended, you probably don’t need to make any modifications. If concrete, I’d add a sheet of 3/4 plywood under all you seating. No need to add wood under the actuators or feet, however. Please report when you have it all online.


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Thanks healthnut!

I am on concrete. Medium pile carpet with a standard pad. I will start with the Ply and go from there. So excited to get these going. I will report back. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.

Casey


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post #1196 of 2393 Old 11-25-2017, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyH71 View Post
Thanks healthnut!

I am on concrete. Medium pile carpet with a standard pad. I will start with the Ply and go from there. So excited to get these going. I will report back. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.

Casey
I'm on concrete with a medium pile carpet as well. I used a 1/2 inch piece of plywood and removed the feet from the couch so I could bolt it directly to the frame of my couch. I did put thin pieces of 1/18 plywood squares under each of my Crowsons and rubber pads. I don't know if that matters or not but I wanted everything sitting on something rigid rather than sinking into the carpet and pad. I've included some pics. Ignore the foot placement in the one picture of the plywood on the bottom of the couch, that's not how I have things placed.
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post #1197 of 2393 Old 11-25-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
I'm on concrete with a medium pile carpet as well. I used a 1/2 inch piece of plywood and removed the feet from the couch so I could bolt it directly to the frame of my couch. I did put thin pieces of 1/18 plywood squares under each of my Crowsons and rubber pads. I don't know if that matters or not but I wanted everything sitting on something rigid rather than sinking into the carpet and pad. I've included some pics. Ignore the foot placement in the one picture of the plywood on the bottom of the couch, that's not how I have things placed.

Thanks Hop!

I will definitely do the Ply attached to the bottom of the couch. I will try with and without Ply under the feet and MA’s and see what results I get.

Also, I am running off a Yammy 3070 so I think I can run the 2nd LFE out without YPAO on it. Been looking forward to getting some tactile back as it is only OK in my room to this point.

Casey


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post #1198 of 2393 Old 12-05-2017, 12:57 PM
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Do any of you guys use a negative shelf on the iNuke or other amps to boost the low end?

I’ve read the iNuke 6000DSP has a 2dB rolled off at 10 Hz but the Crowsons really shine down into the single digits where the amp falls off rapidly.
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post #1199 of 2393 Old 12-05-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Do any of you guys use a negative shelf on the iNuke or other amps to boost the low end?

I’ve read the iNuke 6000DSP has a 2dB rolled off at 10 Hz but the Crowsons really shine down into the single digits where the amp falls off rapidly.
this is a nice options if you're up for it - it's about $10 in parts. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...y-rolloff.html

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post #1200 of 2393 Old 12-05-2017, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Do any of you guys use a negative shelf on the iNuke or other amps to boost the low end?

I’ve read the iNuke 6000DSP has a 2dB rolled off at 10 Hz but the Crowsons really shine down into the single digits where the amp falls off rapidly.
Sure, you can do that. Just be carefull with REALLY bass heavy tracks like EOT intro.

Read here how to:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post54720044

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