The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 2451 Old 12-29-2017, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
How to setup Crowson MA's using Audyssey SubEQ and MiniDSP.

The goals are to use the second subwoofer to provide a flat unaltered(no EQ) channel that's needed to drive the MA's, to allow main volume to control the complete subwoofer/TT system and separate volume control of subwoofer 1(all subwoofers)and subwoofer 2(tactile motion actuators)to further fine tune to reference level or personal choice.

Gear needed.
Pre/Pro or Receiver with Audyssey XT32 with SUBEQ, MiniDSP 2x4 Bal with 2.1 Way Crossover Advanced plugin, Omnimic/REW measurement system,Two or more subwoofers and Crowson MA's.

I'm using Marantz 7702mk2, MiniDSP 2x4 Bal, Omnimic, 4x Subs front array, 4x Subs rear array, 4x MA's.

This setups purpose is to turn on both sub channels and eliminate Audyssey from EQing the sub channels or have a very minimal touch so to have flat FR of subs and an uneq'd MA channel available. Second is to eliminate the delay settings guesswork. All .1 components will have same signal path. Together this will provide seamless integration of .1 components as all equalizing and delay settings are auto set with main volume control.

First, plug closest sub/s into ch1 and furthest sub/s into ch 2 of the Minidsp. Set Minidsp from mono to stereo. Zero or bypass all function, xover, eq, delays, etc. Run Audyssey, 3 positions only. Make note of sub1 and 2 distance settings. Then turn Audyssey Eq off. Next, take Omnimic FR from the MLP. Save that FR and then load it. Click average curve, then auto equalize from 5-70hz then save this biquad file. Load this Biquad Eq file to the Minidsp, making sure its applied to ch 1 and 2. Record Omnimic FR. Next, rerun Audyssey, 3 positions is fine. Record an Omnimic FR and compare to one taking after Minidsp biquads were loaded. Should be a minimal difference if any. If there's a big difference start over. There may be a small change to the distance so write down the new numbers. Next unplug sub from ch 2 of MiniDSP and plug into ch 3. Next using a ms(milliseconds) to distance calculator, figure out the distance difference in ms and load to delay of ch 1(minidsp). An alternate way is to view your latest FR in Omnimic and change delay until it overlays perfectly. Next, in Audyssey, change Sub 1's distance to match Sub 2's you last wrote down. Sub 1(Audyssey)should now display distance to furthest sub. You've now achieved proper delay of each sub as set by Audyssey. Now change Sub 2's(Audyssey) distance to zero and now the subs and MA's are time aligned. Next plug MA's amp into ch 2 on Minidsp. Lastly, unequalize ch 2 on the Minidsp by bypassing each Biquad. You should see a flatline. Your done and you have one properly set up .1 system with main volume control and separate gain control over subs and MA's as needed.
This is a great guide and makes a lot of sense, I just have some thoughts...

1. If your auto EQ has already boosted some frequencies to make the response relatively flat, and then you run Audyssey, isn't there some danger that it could then choose to further boost these frequencies? Whereas normally Audyssey has a limit of how much it will boost a frequency, in this case it has no idea which frequencies have already been boosted. Or does Audyssey leave things alone that are within a +/-3dB window?

2. As an alternative, what about letting Audyssey do its thing, then auto EQ the Crowson channel in the MiniDSP back to flat? This would be really easy with the 2x4 HD, as it supports USB ASIO streaming, meaning you could stream from the MiniDSP right into REW and auto EQ. This ASIO streaming capability seems to be a really useful way to see the result of your entire signal chain up to and including the MiniDSP. Those with a 2x4 unbalanced or balanced would have to loop the output from the MiniDSP back to their soundcard, but could still use this approach otherwise.
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post #1262 of 2451 Old 12-29-2017, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
This is a great guide and makes a lot of sense, I just have some thoughts...

1. If your auto EQ has already boosted some frequencies to make the response relatively flat, and then you run Audyssey, isn't there some danger that it could then choose to further boost these frequencies? Whereas normally Audyssey has a limit of how much it will boost a frequency, in this case it has no idea which frequencies have already been boosted. Or does Audyssey leave things alone that are within a +/-3dB window?

2. As an alternative, what about letting Audyssey do its thing, then auto EQ the Crowson channel in the MiniDSP back to flat? This would be really easy with the 2x4 HD, as it supports USB ASIO streaming, meaning you could stream from the MiniDSP right into REW and auto EQ. This ASIO streaming capability seems to be a really useful way to see the result of your entire signal chain up to and including the MiniDSP. Those with a 2x4 unbalanced or balanced would have to loop the output from the MiniDSP back to their soundcard, but could still use this approach otherwise.
1.With Omnimic I can dial in any parameters needed such as max allowable boost and slope/tilt response as I target. I leave it flat as that’s what’s needed. Minidsp sets the LFE flat and Audy sees it that way, there’s no deviation in response pre or post Audy. You effectively only have one eq pass, the mains handled by Audy and the LF by the mini.

2. Like I always say, try out everything and see if it works.
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post #1263 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
This is a great guide and makes a lot of sense, I just have some thoughts...

1. If your auto EQ has already boosted some frequencies to make the response relatively flat, and then you run Audyssey, isn't there some danger that it could then choose to further boost these frequencies? Whereas normally Audyssey has a limit of how much it will boost a frequency, in this case it has no idea which frequencies have already been boosted. Or does Audyssey leave things alone that are within a +/-3dB window?

2. As an alternative, what about letting Audyssey do its thing, then auto EQ the Crowson channel in the MiniDSP back to flat? This would be really easy with the 2x4 HD, as it supports USB ASIO streaming, meaning you could stream from the MiniDSP right into REW and auto EQ. This ASIO streaming capability seems to be a really useful way to see the result of your entire signal chain up to and including the MiniDSP. Those with a 2x4 unbalanced or balanced would have to loop the output from the MiniDSP back to their soundcard, but could still use this approach otherwise.
1. This is definitely a possibly, and has happened to me before in my previous setup when I had it in my living room (big open area) when I was messing with my VNF's (Very Near Fields) only and leaving the FF subs out as an experiment. If you have quite a bit of correction that needs to be applied pre-Audy (if you don't have enough subs/locations to fix this without much PEQ), Audy will continue to boost if you lift the dips enough pre-Audy (within 3-5db from flat IME). Your right, Audy has no idea what you boosted in the mini before hand and will continue to raise those areas that you got close (or closer to flat) if these dips are brought within what Audyssey will attempt to correct. If your not careful, you could end up with a significant amount of boost in certain areas if you boosted a fair amount Pre-Audy. Depending on how much firepower and headroom you have, one may be able to get away with it. I can usually always tell subjectively what has be boosted to much though, even if I don't run out of headroom.

This could work great for the MA's like coolrda does, if you have a pretty good FR to begin with and doesn't require much pre-PEQ in the mini to get a flat FR, or really close to it. Ideally for the MA's, like cool says, Audy wouldn't need to do anything to the subs after pre-PEQ in the mini, just handles the mains and leaves you basically with an untouched sub-out channel for your MA's.

2. This could probably work as well.

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post #1264 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 09:51 AM
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Like everything else in this game, it's a trade-off, but one trade-off may be better than another.

My understanding of Audyssey is that its FIR filters work not only in the frequency domain, but perhaps more importantly in the time domain. I wonder if, by doing an auto EQ in the frequency domain first, then running Audyssey on the result, is it still able to do the proper corrections in the time domain, or have we crippled its ability to do so? Even if it is still able to do time domain corrections, we are now double EQing our sub channel(s) to some extent, potentially creating issues such as group delay.

My thought is, if either the subs or the MA are going to suffer from double EQ and whatever issues are caused, which will it impact more? Considering the subs are subject to phase interaction with the room, each other, and the mains in the crossover range, it would seem they would suffer far more than the MAs. There is potentially some phase interaction between the MAs and the subs, especially with any floor resonance in cases with a suspended floor, but the effect would seem far less drastic.

I don't know the answers to a lot of my questions, and I'm just theorizing here. There may be no perceivable difference between the two approaches, or there may be.
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post #1265 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 10:46 AM
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^^^ I agree, it's a trade-off, and one may be better than the other if you need much correction.

Good questions and ones that I've thought about as well.

As far as if the subs or MA's are going to suffer, which will it impact more? Man, I don't know, hard to say, but I'm leaning towards the subs like you say. The subs are so important, but so are the MA's when you combine them. What little bit I've messed with PEQing (peak, not LS) on my MA's (with just the MiniDSP), they just don't seem as sharp to me. Now my BK LFE's I'm fine with PEQing (still feel great), but for whatever reason I don't just love the effect it has on the MA's. Maybe that's why I prefer them ran though my Oppo (untouched completely) compared to my AVR subout, even if Audy's correction should be very minimal with coolrda's approach. Running though the Oppo has it's drawbacks as well, but at least not with any form of room correction (PEQ, phase, or anything else that Audyssey may do, even if very minimally).

Also, very good point about the suspended floor resonances combined with the phase interaction between the subs and MA's. I think I may be dealing with a little bit of that now that I'm on a suspended floor, whereas before, I was on concrete with my previous setup. Or it could just be my different seating now in the new room (old single recliner) compared to my couch in my previous setup ..we'll see soon as I've got some new HT seating on the way.

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post #1266 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 12:18 PM
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Using coolrda’s guide works exellent to leave a untouched signal to the MA’s. I have shown this before, but this is the curve i ended up with using auto-eq in the Minidsp to pre-eq before Audyssey. As you can see, Audy leavs it almost untouched.



Of course you have to eq the subs manually in Minidsp afterwards, but i believe this is still the best compromise, other than using LFE direct from the Oppo.
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post #1267 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 12:20 PM
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^^^ I agree, it's a trade-off, and one may be better than the other if you need much correction.

Good questions and ones that I've thought about as well.

As far as if the subs or MA's are going to suffer, which will it impact more? Man, I don't know, hard to say, but I'm leaning towards the subs like you say. The subs are so important, but so are the MA's when you combine them. What little bit I've messed with PEQing (peak, not LS) on my MA's (with just the MiniDSP), they just don't seem as sharp to me. Now my BK LFE's I'm fine with PEQing (still feel great), but for whatever reason I don't just love the effect it has on the MA's. Maybe that's why I prefer them ran though my Oppo (untouched completely) compared to my AVR subout, even if Audy's correction should be very minimal with coolrda's approach. Running though the Oppo has it's drawbacks as well, but at least not with any form of room correction (PEQ, phase, or anything else that Audyssey may do, even if very minimally).

Also, very good point about the suspended floor resonances combined with the phase interaction between the subs and MA's. I think I may be dealing with a little bit of that now that I'm on a suspended floor, whereas before, I was on concrete with my previous setup. Or it could just be my different seating now in the new room (old single recliner) compared to my couch in my previous setup ..we'll see soon as I've got some new HT seating on the way.
Your comment about PEQ making your MAs seem less sharp isn't entirely surprising, considering I feel a difference with only 2.5ms of delay with mine. Perhaps we are much more sensitive to group delay with TR rather than ULF sound. This may mean that getting the MAs the most untouched signal is most important, which may make coolrda's approach a better trade-off. However, in my alternative approach, when we auto EQ the Crowson channel to undo the Audyssey filters, I believe we should be canceling out most or all of the group delay as well, since inverted filters also have inverted group delay. I'm just not sure if "unEQing" FIR filters with IIR filters will leave some residual group delay that will be detrimental. I guess testing is the only way to find out, unless someone who knows a lot more than me about this stuff can comment.

As for the phase interaction with the suspended floor resonances, they don't seem to be an issue for me at all. I believe that is because in the frequency range of floor resonance (something like 15-20Hz for me) you'd have to badly mess up your delay in order to create serious phase issues. Additionally, for me at least, the TR from the MAs is so much more powerful than the TR from my floor resonance, I'm not sure I'd notice even if they were interfering destructively.


As a side topic, I don't yet own a MiniDSP and am very intrigued by the USB streaming ability of the 2x4 HD. Being able to send the output from a MiniDSP channel digitally back to REW for analysis seems to be extremely useful, considering it is capturing the entire signal chain up to and including the MiniDSP, without any soundcard influence or calibration necessary. It would allow us to see exactly what is being fed to our MA amp, and flatten the MA response perfectly if we know the rolloff of the amp, which is the single downstream device in the signal path. My only concern is that on other MiniDSP devices, the 96kHz MiniDSP plugins have really funky ULF filter response due rounding errors with their fixed-point filter coefficients. The 2x4 HD has 32-bit floating-point coefficients, so it may not have the issue, but I can't find the information online and haven't yet received a response from MiniDSP about it. I may just have to be the guinea pig and return it if it doesn't work properly. The good thing is the USB streaming capability makes the resulting response really easy to test.
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post #1268 of 2451 Old 12-30-2017, 12:29 PM
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Using coolrda’s guide works exellent to leave a untouched signal to the MA’s. I have shown this before, but this is the curve i ended up with using auto-eq in the Minidsp to pre-eq before Audyssey. As you can see, Audy leavs it almost untouched.



Of course you have to eq the subs manually in Minidsp afterwards, but i believe this is still the best compromise, other than using LFE direct from the Oppo.
It looks relatively untouched in the frequency domain, but what about the time domain? Can you post the phase graphs for both of those responses? That should shed some light on whether Audyssey is still doing some time-domain corrections.

I don't doubt that coolrda's method works, or even that it works really well, I'm just wondering if Audyssey could have done a better job with FIR filters, resulting in a better sounding system. Even if Audyssey does do a better job, if the result is detrimental to the MA response, it may not be worth it. If the result is not detrimental to the MA response, however, as the vast majority of the group delay is canceled by the auto EQ, and Audyssey's FIR filters result in a better sounding system, that's another story.

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post #1269 of 2451 Old 12-31-2017, 04:59 AM
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^^ I am on vacation ATM, but will look into it when i’m back.

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post #1270 of 2451 Old 12-31-2017, 11:04 AM
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It looks relatively untouched in the frequency domain, but what about the time domain? Can you post the phase graphs for both of those responses? That should shed some light on whether Audyssey is still doing some time-domain corrections.

I don't doubt that coolrda's method works, or even that it works really well, I'm just wondering if Audyssey could have done a better job with FIR filters, resulting in a better sounding system. Even if Audyssey does do a better job, if the result is detrimental to the MA response, it may not be worth it. If the result is not detrimental to the MA response, however, as the vast majority of the group delay is canceled by the auto EQ, and Audyssey's FIR filters result in a better sounding system, that's another story.
I wouldn’t worry to much about group delay or time domain errors if you pre-eq before Audy. Time delay(distance setting) is different than group or phase delay. If you take a 10, 20 and 40hz signal and start them at the same time, 10hz will be at 90 degs, [email protected] and [email protected] but they’re all in phase alignment. Audy is an auditory correction device. It can’t even begin to correctly set a sub to an MA. That has to be set by feel. I can tell a difference even with 1ms of delay between sub and MA. I can easily feel when my sub locks to the MA.

As far as time domain issues, Audy doesn’t know what the cause of the issue is, it just attempts to fix it. It doesn’t know if you have bad speaker placement, a bad room or a sigchain issue, it just attempts to fix it. With every improvement to my room, Audy’s touch is lighter and therefore better. I know my impulse response is dead on even though I can’t measure it. So taking care of your business pre-Audy now let’s Audy do it’s thing, better. My way isn’t ideal, it’s a work around but it’s the best way I’ve found to date. There’s probably more group delay in the seating and risers that from signal processing. The only thing that may come close to relating to that in VS suite of measurements is TILT. I wouldn’t think you could look at the amplitude envelopes to find nulls like you would with speakers because the response is random. Even white noise is repeating random noise.

Having said all this, I’ll never tell someone not to test something, that it’s a waste of time. We always knew nearfield subs were the most tactile and that risers felt more tactile than cement. Now that we tested all of that we have definitive data that backs that up but more important tells us the ratios and what we can expect performance-wise per given product and how best to accomplish that. So again, my advice is test it, compare the data and if you find a better way, share it with us.
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post #1271 of 2451 Old 12-31-2017, 06:31 PM
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Using coolrda’s guide works exellent to leave a untouched signal to the MA’s.

Of course you have to eq the subs manually in Minidsp afterwards, but i believe this is still the best compromise, other than using LFE direct from the Oppo.
I'm confused. With coolrda's miniDSP method, I thought you only had to run Audyssey twice and that's it. In fact after you move the sub's FR correction to the miniDSP following the first Audyssey pass, the second Audyssey pass is only needed for minor correction to make sure the final sub's FR is as close as it can be (while adding minimal changes to the original LFE signal that goes to the MAs).

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post #1272 of 2451 Old 01-01-2018, 11:54 AM
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I'm confused. With coolrda's miniDSP method, I thought you only had to run Audyssey twice and that's it. In fact after you move the sub's FR correction to the miniDSP following the first Audyssey pass, the second Audyssey pass is only needed for minor correction to make sure the final sub's FR is as close as it can be (while adding minimal changes to the original LFE signal that goes to the MAs).
Yes, you are correct. In my case with DIY subs i need to eq them flat with the Minidsp, as you can see the FR after pre-eq and Audyssey is not flat.

But with a storebought sub you might not need that.

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post #1273 of 2451 Old 01-01-2018, 12:51 PM
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I'm confused. With coolrda's miniDSP method, I thought you only had to run Audyssey twice and that's it. In fact after you move the sub's FR correction to the miniDSP following the first Audyssey pass, the second Audyssey pass is only needed for minor correction to make sure the final sub's FR is as close as it can be (while adding minimal changes to the original LFE signal that goes to the MAs).
Right, the first Audyssey pass is really only to get its distance measurements so you can use them to time-align in the MiniDSP. The second Audyssey pass is really only to let it EQ the mains and crossover section. Any sub EQ it does in that second pass is actually unwanted, unless it is still able to do some time-domain corrections, which I'm not sure of yet.

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Yes, you are correct. In my case with DIY subs i need to eq them flat with the Minidsp, as you can see the FR after pre-eq and Audyssey is not flat.

But with a storebought sub you might not need that.
I wonder if you'd be better off EQing flat before running Audyssey rather than after. On one hand, in your case Audyssey is certainly not touching your low end (anything below the F3 point), but if it is still able to do time-domain corrections, you may actually want it to.

When you get a chance, I'd love to see the phase measurements on those two sweeps you posted.

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post #1274 of 2451 Old 01-04-2018, 06:34 PM
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When you get a chance, I'd love to see the phase measurements on those two sweeps you posted.
Not much difference.
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post #1275 of 2451 Old 01-04-2018, 08:22 PM
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Not much difference.
Awesome, thanks for posting this.

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post #1276 of 2451 Old 01-05-2018, 09:36 AM
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Hey All!

Sorry I haven't hit back since setting up my MA's, but the end of the year was busy!

I am just over the moon happy with the Crowson's. I mean, wow! I went from cheap Aura's to these and the difference is night and day. I have an old wood framed full sized leather couch (2 MA's on the back 2 corners) and a smaller love seat (1 MA back right corner) and I mounted 1/2" ply to the bottom of both. I also have the MA's sitting on a disc of the 1/2" on top of the carpet. My signal chain is Oppo BDP-103 -> Yammy 3070 -> Crowson D-501 amp -> MA's.

I have been following all of the discussion about the FR and TA posted by several of you. In my setup I can run my 2nd LFE output flat outside of YPAO's correction, so shouldn't I only concerned about the TA? And if so, wouldn't it be best to set the TA of the MA's to match what YPAO sets for my sub on my subs LFE output? It seems like I want the MA's to hit at the same time my TA for the sub would hit my MLP.

I am running the Crowson amp at around 18 or so on the movie setting and that seems to be plenty. As a matter of fact it may be slightly more hot than what I feel from my subs, so I may have to work on that a bit. More to come.

Thanks, Casey
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post #1277 of 2451 Old 01-08-2018, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CaseyH71 View Post
Hey All!

Sorry I haven't hit back since setting up my MA's, but the end of the year was busy!

I am just over the moon happy with the Crowson's. I mean, wow! I went from cheap Aura's to these and the difference is night and day. I have an old wood framed full sized leather couch (2 MA's on the back 2 corners) and a smaller love seat (1 MA back right corner) and I mounted 1/2" ply to the bottom of both. I also have the MA's sitting on a disc of the 1/2" on top of the carpet. My signal chain is Oppo BDP-103 -> Yammy 3070 -> Crowson D-501 amp -> MA's.

I have been following all of the discussion about the FR and TA posted by several of you. In my setup I can run my 2nd LFE output flat outside of YPAO's correction, so shouldn't I only concerned about the TA? And if so, wouldn't it be best to set the TA of the MA's to match what YPAO sets for my sub on my subs LFE output? It seems like I want the MA's to hit at the same time my TA for the sub would hit my MLP.

I am running the Crowson amp at around 18 or so on the movie setting and that seems to be plenty. As a matter of fact it may be slightly more hot than what I feel from my subs, so I may have to work on that a bit. More to come.

Thanks, Casey
I run the LFE out of my oppo 203 directly to the Crowson amp. That way the room correction is not an issue.

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post #1278 of 2451 Old 01-08-2018, 11:58 AM
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I run the LFE out of my oppo 203 directly to the Crowson amp. That way the room correction is not an issue.
I do the same.

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post #1279 of 2451 Old 01-10-2018, 01:18 PM
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Has anyone ever tested the frequency response of the Crowson D-501 amp? Its FR is advertised as 5-160Hz, but I wonder what the ULF rolloff is like.

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post #1280 of 2451 Old 01-10-2018, 04:05 PM
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I used my MiniDSP 2x4 HD (can't recommend this model of MiniDSP enough!) to cancel out Audyssey's calibration and add a nice low shelf to the Crowson channel.

On the attached graph:
Blue is the AVR response alone with Audyssey off and 80Hz crossover.
Red is with Audyssey and Dynamic EQ on.
Magenta is after adding a LS @ 10Hz +6dB Q0.6
Teal is after adding cancelling out Audyssey with two simple PEQs. 17Hz,+8dB,Q3 and 26Hz,+3dB,Q5

The MiniDSP's USB ASIO support allows me to sweep in REW any of its four outputs at any time, which makes the Crowson EQ process incredibly quick and easy. If you know your amp's rolloff, you can even create a calibration file for it to use in REW and see what's actually leaving your amp.
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post #1281 of 2451 Old 01-12-2018, 05:02 PM
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I'm getting a second Shadow 8 actuator...is it better to hook them up to just one amp channel on the iNuke 6000 or should I use both channels?
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post #1282 of 2451 Old 01-12-2018, 05:12 PM
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I'm getting a second Shadow 8 actuator...is it better to hook them up to just one amp channel on the iNuke 6000 or should I use both channels?
According to Behringer:
Specifications: • Output power (per channel, stereo): 1,100 watts RMS, 1,500 watts peak (8 ohms), 2,200 watts RMS, 3,000 watts peak (4 ohms)

It doesn't appear to make much of a difference either way, but I'd probably go with separate channels until I had another use for the second channel.
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post #1283 of 2451 Old 01-12-2018, 05:18 PM
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I'm getting a second Shadow 8 actuator...is it better to hook them up to just one amp channel on the iNuke 6000 or should I use both channels?
Addicting aren't they? I have mine set up with one on each amp channel.
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post #1284 of 2451 Old 01-12-2018, 08:10 PM
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Addicting aren't they? I have mine set up with one on each amp channel.
Very addicting!

I'm assuming you put the amp in Stereo mode when using both channels, correct?

Can I up the 500w limit when using duals, or should it still be 500w per channel?
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post #1285 of 2451 Old 01-12-2018, 08:52 PM
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Very addicting!



I'm assuming you put the amp in Stereo mode when using both channels, correct?



Can I up the 500w limit when using duals, or should it still be 500w per channel?

You can use the Bi amp mode on the iNuke to send the same mono signal (from a single input) to each amp channel and then leave it on 500w limit per channel for 8ohm. I split my LFE signal twice for two XLR inputs into the iNuke and run it in dual mono mode I believe. There are a few ways to hook it up to the iNuke from a single or even a split signal (the manual explains some of it), no point in running it in stereo since you’re feeding it a mono LFE signal.

I placed both MA’s under my side of the couch a while back, and it’s amazing even at lower volumes with a huge +10-15dB DEQ boost from the iNuke when the master volume is only at -20 to -30db. I haven’t been able to listen to anything louder than that since my most recent kiddo arrived, but hopefully I’ll get some time next Tuesday to let the 4K copy of Blade Runner 2049 rattle some fillings loose!
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post #1286 of 2451 Old 01-13-2018, 01:49 PM
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I am considering a move away from my Buttkicker to a pair of Crowsons (two Shadow-8 actuators with a D-501 amplifier). My sofa sits three people. It is 6 feet wide in the back, 6.5 feet wide in the front, and 2.7 feet deep. In addition to having a foot in each corner, it also has a supporting foot in the middle. See the attached photo. Should I order an extra isolator for the middle foot of should I completely remove the middle foot from the sofa? The sofa manufacturer obviously thought the middle foot serves a purpose, but will it interfere with the Crowsons? Does anyone run a similar setup with two actuators and three isolators?

Thank you.
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post #1287 of 2451 Old 01-15-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
You can use the Bi amp mode on the iNuke to send the same mono signal (from a single input) to each amp channel and then leave it on 500w limit per channel for 8ohm. I split my LFE signal twice for two XLR inputs into the iNuke and run it in dual mono mode I believe. There are a few ways to hook it up to the iNuke from a single or even a split signal (the manual explains some of it), no point in running it in stereo since you’re feeding it a mono LFE signal.
Thanks Sekosche!

Do you know, when running in bi-amp mode, does the same crossover/PEQ/limiter/etc get applied to both outputs? If so, that would be cool.

If not, is there any harm in just connecting the second MA to the first in series??
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post #1288 of 2451 Old 01-15-2018, 04:18 PM
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Thanks Sekosche!

Do you know, when running in bi-amp mode, does the same crossover/PEQ/limiter/etc get applied to both outputs? If so, that would be cool.

If not, is there any harm in just connecting the second MA to the first in series??
They each have their own separate settings but you can link them if you want.

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post #1289 of 2451 Old 01-16-2018, 11:54 AM
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They each have their own separate settings but you can link them if you want.
Thanks! I never noticed the "Channel Link" button before.

That will work perfectly!
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post #1290 of 2451 Old 01-16-2018, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by afilipi View Post
I am considering a move away from my Buttkicker to a pair of Crowsons (two Shadow-8 actuators with a D-501 amplifier). My sofa sits three people. It is 6 feet wide in the back, 6.5 feet wide in the front, and 2.7 feet deep. In addition to having a foot in each corner, it also has a supporting foot in the middle. See the attached photo. Should I order an extra isolator for the middle foot of should I completely remove the middle foot from the sofa? The sofa manufacturer obviously thought the middle foot serves a purpose, but will it interfere with the Crowsons? Does anyone run a similar setup with two actuators and three isolators?

Thank you.
Isolate that foot, don’t remove it. Think of having 2xMA’s like having 2 subs, one at each front corner of the room. You have an equalized pressure zone with better coverage. Same with the Crowson’s. With two in the corners you’ll have consistent response across the seating. The extra isolator should increase response. The Crowson’s are rated for a maximum load of 250lbs each and produce 50ftlbs of energy. So with 3xIso’s your good to 1250lbs(with the isolators having the same rating)So even with a couple big guys on sofa, your gonna know when the Crowson’s are working.
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