The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 2728 Old 05-09-2018, 12:04 PM
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^^ Yeah the Crowsons are expensive but it's like anything else in this world, you get what you pay for. The Crowsons really do feel like your subs are creating the tactile response you experience and that's what makes them so worth it, they are not gimmicky like the arcade seats. And as Sekosche, SBuger and Alan pointed out, they provide you with a depth of tactile response that near field subs alone can't quit provide... this is especially true for those of us on concrete.
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post #1412 of 2728 Old 05-09-2018, 01:25 PM
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Ok, looks like you got me all convinced to try it! Just when I thought my bass upgrade was done. LOL

But seriously....anyone in Charlotte, NC or close that have crowsons or similar for me to demo to get an idea?
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post #1413 of 2728 Old 05-09-2018, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
You guys are terrible at spending my money! LOL I will start with just one. Its just me and the wife that sits on the couch. Just to see if I like it. Didn't realized they were that expensive! Also my connections are RCA so it may be easier to use crowson amp since iNuke doesn't accept RCA connection unless I use TRS connectors. I'm more interested in simplicity.
Yeah, TRS or Speakon connectors, but it's not really that much of a hassle. I'm not that familiar with the Crowson amp, but the iNuke software is pretty awesome. You can download it and check it out beforehand if you want.

Quote:
I will be using sub2 output on the prepro then since its untouched. With the exception that LFE is 120hz and the subs are crossed at 100hz in the prepro. Then I would probably just use external amps xover to further filter the bass in case I want to use it for 50hz and lower only, etc. There are only 2 pegs on the minidsp so will make sense to use crowsons on its own output.
50hz is a good starting point for the Crowsons. I'm currently at 90hz, but I still mess with it every now and again.


Quote:
I'm assuming I don't need to use REW for crowsons right? Since it doesn't make sounds (or does it?) and just vibrates it would just be tuned by feel by intensity and xover point only. And as far as delay, its prob not necessary if its the same delay as the furthest sub since I use delays in minidsp for the closer subs. So it should be almost plug and play in my case....hopefully!
No REW. You would use Vibsensor if you wanted to measure the effects of the MAs.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...st-thread.html

Ideally, the delay for the MAs should be "0" since they are essentially attached to the seating, and subsequently attached to your body. You can easily adjust this with the DSP in the iNuke amps.


Quote:
Also, I probably would want variable vs fixed output....as in intensity rises when turning up main volume like the speakers and subs rather than keeping same fixed intensity. I want the transducers to feel/blend with the subs to feel like I got sub upgrade rather than feeling like I added something under the seats.....if that make sense.
Although I use a variable input, there are others here that use the fixed input from their Oppo players and they seem to like it just fine, it sort of acts like Dynamic EQ for the MAs (the iNuke amps have a built in, adjustable DEQ as well).
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post #1414 of 2728 Old 05-15-2018, 05:44 AM
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For those using four actuators and the inuke. Curious how you have the amp configured? Stereo, dual mono, biamped? Would be easier to bridge the two inputs in the amp but curious what most of you are doing. Want to be able to take advantage of the dynamic eq but I believe thats disabled in dual mono or biamp modes.

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post #1415 of 2728 Old 05-17-2018, 10:11 AM
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New Crowson Sorbothane Motion Isolator Design

So like most (all?) others in here, the original Crowson Sorbothane Motion Isolators fell apart and were a bad design. Well, a few months back in February, a post in here reminded me of that (I had already threw mine away and replaced them with the Penn Elcom 9106 from Parts Express) and I emailed Randy at Crowson Tech.


He said he had heard about the issue and asked me a bunch of questions to about my setup, how I had them used/installed, etc. He then told me they were working on a new mold/design and should be ready by the end of next month, March. Well, obviously it took a little longer. But I hope it's worth it, and by the looks and feel of it, it should be.


I attached 4 pictures to try and show the new design. Trying to go by memory, it feels more rubbery than the previous one. Easy to squeeze but looks like it should hold up and not tear like the last one. Not hard at all like the Penn Elcom 9106. I would say even softer than the previous design. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember the last one being able to take apart and was in one piece. Perhaps someone on here who still has them can confirm. But anyways, this one, you can take the top and bottom hard plastic coverings off.


I replied to their email they sent saying it was shipping to ask what changes were made. But it was their sales department account and maybe it didn't get forwarded to Randy because I never heard back. So I'll have to try and find his email and message him there to try and find out. Maybe they've done some measurements and can share how they stack up to the old ones and competition.



Unfortunately I'm in between places at the moment. So I won't be able to try them out and see how they perform myself for quite some time. Did anyone else in here get the new design in and can test?
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post #1416 of 2728 Old 05-17-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
So like most (all?) others in here, the original Crowson Sorbothane Motion Isolators fell apart and were a bad design. Well, a few months back in February, a post in here reminded me of that (I had already threw mine away and replaced them with the Penn Elcom 9106 from Parts Express) and I emailed Randy at Crowson Tech.


He said he had heard about the issue and asked me a bunch of questions to about my setup, how I had them used/installed, etc. He then told me they were working on a new mold/design and should be ready by the end of next month, March. Well, obviously it took a little longer. But I hope it's worth it, and by the looks and feel of it, it should be.


I attached 4 pictures to try and show the new design. Trying to go by memory, it feels more rubbery than the previous one. Easy to squeeze but looks like it should hold up and not tear like the last one. Not hard at all like the Penn Elcom 9106. I would say even softer than the previous design. Also, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember the last one being able to take apart and was in one piece. Perhaps someone on here who still has them can confirm. But anyways, this one, you can take the top and bottom hard plastic coverings off.


I replied to their email they sent saying it was shipping to ask what changes were made. But it was their sales department account and maybe it didn't get forwarded to Randy because I never heard back. So I'll have to try and find his email and message him there to try and find out. Maybe they've done some measurements and can share how they stack up to the old ones and competition.



Unfortunately I'm in between places at the moment. So I won't be able to try them out and see how they perform myself for quite some time. Did anyone else in here get the new design in and can test?

So I just heard back from Randy...


Quote:
The Sorbothane is the same but the end caps have been revised. Also, we no longer glue them together. They handle more weight without glue.

So my apologies for confusing anyone. But I really remember them being very different in texture.


Anyone in Miami with the old style wanna meet up and confirm/compare?
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post #1417 of 2728 Old 05-20-2018, 05:06 AM
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Anyone utilizing the iNuke dynamic eq feature for their actuators? If so, curious about your settings. Don't fully understand how the settings work and their doesn't appear to be much documenting on it

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post #1418 of 2728 Old 05-21-2018, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Anyone utilizing the iNuke dynamic eq feature for their actuators? If so, curious about your settings. Don't fully understand how the settings work and their doesn't appear to be much documenting on it

I run the DEQ to get added potency from the actuators between -25MV and -15MV during low volume listening sessions. I think I have a 10dB boost set at -25MV that tapers off around -10MV. You can play around with DEQ and look at how it effects your curves in the iNuke software. I use a computer to make all my adjustments, so I’m not sure what the little amplifier display shows.

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post #1419 of 2728 Old 05-22-2018, 07:35 AM
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I have been using these DEQ settings:

LP12, 50Hz, Q 1.0, G 15dB, Thresh -40dB, R 1:5.0, Att 10ms, Rec 4sec

I didn’t play around too much to get to these settings - I am also interested to see what other people use.
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post #1420 of 2728 Old 05-23-2018, 10:30 PM
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I am going to be adding some tranducers/actuators to my system. I am very interested in the crowson shadow-8, but I have some questions about the Crowson website. I have added what I want to buy into the cart and then try to check out and I get a site certificate error (SSL error). I looked at the certificate at is says it expired in 2015. All of my browsers have an alert about the site. My questions:

Is Crowson Tech still in business?

How has everybody recently purchased Crowson actuators online (or have they been phone orders)?

Thanks.
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post #1421 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 07:03 AM
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I bought mine online about a year ago, so I’m puzzled by what your experiencing. I would put in a call, although I’ve found that timing is everything when contacting Randolph. I can usually reach him via phone in the early evening Eastern time (roughly 7 o’clock). Email should also be an option, though less satisfactory. Best of luck, and please report back...


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post #1422 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I run the DEQ to get added potency from the actuators between -25MV and -15MV during low volume listening sessions. I think I have a 10dB boost set at -25MV that tapers off around -10MV. You can play around with DEQ and look at how it effects your curves in the iNuke software. I use a computer to make all my adjustments, so I’m not sure what the little amplifier display shows.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm using the PC interface as well. I dont fully understand the attack and release features. Do you know how those settings interact with the Crowsons?
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post #1423 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermoozer View Post
I am going to be adding some tranducers/actuators to my system. I am very interested in the crowson shadow-8, but I have some questions about the Crowson website. I have added what I want to buy into the cart and then try to check out and I get a site certificate error (SSL error). I looked at the certificate at is says it expired in 2015. All of my browsers have an alert about the site. My questions:

Is Crowson Tech still in business?

How has everybody recently purchased Crowson actuators online (or have they been phone orders)?

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
I bought mine online about a year ago, so I’m puzzled by what your experiencing. I would put in a call, although I’ve found that timing is everything when contacting Randolph. I can usually reach him via phone in the early evening Eastern time (roughly 7 o’clock). Email should also be an option, though less satisfactory. Best of luck, and please report back...


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And don't forget to mention AVS for a 10% discount!
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post #1424 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
And don't forget to mention AVS for a 10% discount!
I called and placed an order a couple weeks ago, pain-free. I actually asked about the website issues and was told that they're in the process of replacing the whole thing, so they've let it go to seed a bit. (Fun story, even if you tell your browser to ignore the expired certificate, the credit card details form won't even let you input an expiration date past 2019...)

Sadly, I did not know a discount was available. Oh well, I'm a happy camper even at full price!
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post #1425 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zworykin View Post
I called and placed an order a couple weeks ago, pain-free. I actually asked about the website issues and was told that they're in the process of replacing the whole thing, so they've let it go to seed a bit. (Fun story, even if you tell your browser to ignore the expired certificate, the credit card details form won't even let you input an expiration date past 2019...)

Sadly, I did not know a discount was available. Oh well, I'm a happy camper even at full price!

Are you within your return window still? If so, they might offer you the difference if you call and ask.
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post #1426 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 02:40 PM
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Leave a voice mail with Randolf, when send him an email. Randolf is a great guy to
work with and if you tell him that you were not aware of the 10 percent discount
(being an AVS member) I sure if you are within your return window he will honer it as per
@biliam1982 post above.

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post #1427 of 2728 Old 05-24-2018, 07:51 PM
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Thanks for the responses and for the info about the 10% discount. I emailed today and got a nice response about a new website in the works. I will be putting in an order soon and can’t wait to add them to my system.
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post #1428 of 2728 Old 05-27-2018, 09:10 PM
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Haven't moved on this project as fast as I would have liked, but I do have most everything run and ready now. Working on mounting my couch to plywood now as suggested. Trying to figure out how many isolator feet I should use/order now. The actual plywood is about 2x6 ft.

Picture for reference, how does this look for placement?

Key:
Blue = Isolator feet bolted through the wood and couch frame.

Green = Isolator feet attached that just mount through the wood. 2 under the middle console mainly for more support, and then 1 in-between a SA on each side of the couch. Not sure if necessary, but if I had to remove any SA units for whatever reason, at least the back of the couch would still have some support in place.

Red = Planned Shadow Actuator unit placement

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post #1429 of 2728 Old 05-27-2018, 09:23 PM
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I haven't moved on this project as fast as I would have liked, but I do have most everything run and ready now. Working on mounting my couch to plywood now as suggested. Trying to figure out how many isolator feet I should use/order now. The actual plywood is about 2x6 ft.

Picture for reference, how does this look for placement?

Key:
Blue = Isolator feet bolted through the wood and couch frame.

Green = Isolator feet attached that just mount through the wood. 2 under the middle console mainly for more support, and then 1 in-between a SA on each side of the couch. Not sure if necessary, but if I had to remove any SA units for whatever reason, at least the back of the couch would still have some support in place.

Red = Planned Shadow Actuator unit placement
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post #1430 of 2728 Old 05-28-2018, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rengozu View Post
I haven't moved on this project as fast as I would have liked, but I do have most everything run and ready now. Working on mounting my couch to plywood now as suggested. Trying to figure out how many isolator feet I should use/order now. The actual plywood is about 2x6 ft.

Picture for reference, how does this look for placement?

Key:
Blue = Isolator feet bolted through the wood and couch frame.

Green = Isolator feet attached that just mount through the wood. 2 under the middle console mainly for more support, and then 1 in-between a SA on each side of the couch. Not sure if necessary, but if I had to remove any SA units for whatever reason, at least the back of the couch would still have some support in place.

Red = Planned Shadow Actuator unit placement
I don't have crowsons yet....but based on what I've seen I think you just put plywood on top of carpet itself and then put crowson isolater on top of plywood and rest your chair on it. The isolators would just mount on the chairs. Basically just pretend you're on hardwood floor and mount it. You do not want isolator on carpet as it needs to breathe and not overheat.

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post #1431 of 2728 Old 05-28-2018, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
I don't have crowsons yet....but based on what I've seen I think you just put plywood on top of carpet itself and then put crowson isolater on top of plywood and rest your chair on it. The isolators would just mount on the chairs. Basically just pretend you're on hardwood floor and mount it. You do not want isolator on carpet as it needs to breathe and not overheat.
No he actually has the right idea. A number of us have bolted plywood to the frame of the couch so the tactile energy that the Crowsons deliver can vibrate through the entire base. I've included a picture of the plywood I have bolted to the metal frame of the couch.

Make note: This photo doesn't show the actual configuration of my rubber feet. I'm actually only using five isolation feet and two Crowsons. The two Crowsons are located in the rear corners of the platform (where as this photos shows isolation feet there). If I were going with four Crowsons I would probably try putting one in each corner and see how that felt.

If you look closely at the bottom of the photo you can see I've put squares of 1/4" plywood on the floor. This is due to having carpet. This way the isolation feet and the Crowsons have a solid base of wood to sit on. I got that idea from @SBuger . You want the Crowsons sitting on something solid and not carpet.
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post #1432 of 2728 Old 05-28-2018, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
No he actually has the right idea. A number of us have bolted plywood to the frame of the couch so the tactile energy that the Crowsons deliver can vibrate through the entire base. I've included a picture of the plywood I have bolted to the metal frame of the couch.

Make note: This photo doesn't show the actual configuration of my rubber feet. I'm actually only using five isolation feet and two Crowsons. The two Crowsons are located in the rear corners of the platform (where as this photos shows isolation feet there). If I were going with four Crowsons I would probably try putting one in each corner and see how that felt.

If you look closely at the bottom of the photo you can see I've put squares of 1/4" plywood on the floor. This is due to having carpet. This way the isolation feet and the Crowsons have a solid base of wood to sit on. I got that idea from @SBuger . You want the Crowsons sitting on something solid and not carpet.
Seeing yours makes me think I could probably kill off 2-4 of the feet and still be ok. And thanks for the 1/4 plywood squares tip, hadn't seen that one yet.
I'm sure I'll end up trying many positions before settling, but in thinking I was afraid of putting them in all the corners because my imagination says it'll be too strong on the left/right side depending on what chair you're in. Figured having 2 of them behind the seat on both sides would more evenly distribute to each person. (but I'm just daydreaming here as I've never used)

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post #1433 of 2728 Old 05-29-2018, 06:04 AM
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..... Trying to figure out how many isolator feet I should use/order now. ....
I got one for each spot where the couches original feet were. I figure that that would give the couch the proper support where it was designed to be.
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post #1434 of 2728 Old 06-15-2018, 02:27 PM
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Well after finally figuring everything out with the plywood on the couch, I finally spoke with Randolph and ordered these last week. Unfortunately I didn't get them today in time for the weekend though, as there's some sort of weather delay messing with my UPS delivery. The wait is real with them in mid-transit with no known arrival time showing up on my tracking at the moment. So what's everyones favorite movie/scene to demo these off with? Got everything else hooked up and ready for them, so I might as well make sure I have the reference titles that showcase them the best.

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post #1435 of 2728 Old 06-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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Well after finally figuring everything out with the plywood on the couch, I finally spoke with Randolph and ordered these last week. Unfortunately I didn't get them today in time for the weekend though, as there's some sort of weather delay messing with my UPS delivery. The wait is real with them in mid-transit with no known arrival time showing up on my tracking at the moment. So what's everyones favorite movie/scene to demo these off with? Got everything else hooked up and ready for them, so I might as well make sure I have the reference titles that showcase them the best.
Sorry you are in limbo waiting for them, I hope they arrive soon. I love watching the Pod scene from War of the Worlds.
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post #1436 of 2728 Old 06-15-2018, 11:31 PM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

That stinks your shipment was delayed!

If you’re not familiar with the bass movie thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2763785

Any of the strong 30Hz and below films will seriously impress you, and a good number were just talked about recently for ULF scenes. What subs are you running?

I cross my Crowson’s higher than most 50-65Hz the last couple years and love the added oomph they bring without noticeable voices creeping into the actuators.

Some of the most impressive films to me are the 20-30Hz monsters that feel like you’re on a roller coaster and films with explosions (13 Hours, Hacksaw Ridge) that dig very deep near single digits. Just finished watching “It” the other day, and it’s like taking the couch for a ride...you may not prefer your TR as hot. Alien Covenant, Blade Runner 2049, Wonder Woman, Don’t Breathe, basically all the top rated bass movies of the last couple years have great 30Hz and under bass. Batman vs Superman has tons of deep bass that is almost nonstop, similar in design/feel to Pacific Rim but a little lower.

As @Hopinator mentioned, the lengthy War of the Worlds pod emerging scene was my first disc to spin when I set up the Crowson’s, and the added texture and depth to the bass was incredible and brought a whole new octave in tactile sensations I hadn’t experienced before. My room is large (5.5Kft^3), and I’m reference capable from 19Hz now, but I had fewer capable subs when I added the Crowson’s and considerably less under 25Hz performance so the difference was shocking. Even with powerful subs, the Crowson’s still add a tremendous amount of TR and enjoyment to movies.

Enjoy!
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post #1437 of 2728 Old 06-16-2018, 09:33 AM
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That stinks your shipment was delayed!

Spoiler!
Well the good news is they made it within 10 miles of me now, but the bad is I can't pick them up on location because it's Saturday so I have to wait for the Monday delivery.

I have a couple in-wall subs, but now have them turned down pretty low ever since I grabbed a SVS PB16-Ultra. Good on the movies as I have all those, though I would've completely overlooked War of the Worlds as one to check out.

Guess I'll just have to play with the Hz crossovers as everyones is a littler different. (Randolph said start at 100hz and just go down from there as needed until you don't feel the voices.)

This might be the most excited I've been for an addition to the room. Least I should have it all set-up in time for the (probably bad) Pacific Rim sequel on Tuesday.
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post #1438 of 2728 Old 06-19-2018, 09:10 AM
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Well got them in and hooked up. I tried running straight from the Oppo as suggested, but I couldn't seem to get the timing right to make everything match up. Guessing it was because my pre/pro has a lag delay of -180ms and the Oppo only goes to -100ms? Whatever the reason I couldn't seem to get it right, so I ended up unplugging one of my sub outs from the pre/pro and going direct from there and that worked fine. (now have a Y cable on order)

Right now I have 4 SA units on 2 seats and a middle unit (seats boarded together/2 SA a seat) and I'm only using 18-20 volume on the Crowson D-501 amp, so thinking later on I might try just using 2 for that whole couch set and then crank the volume more. If that gives me the same feeling I'll probably just re-disperse the other 2 units to different couches to tide me over for now.

I forgot what it was like to sample so many movies. Helicopter scene from the Matrix with the gatling gun . . . oh man. Will tweak some more today and get ready for some Pacific Rim robot action tonight.
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post #1439 of 2728 Old 06-20-2018, 12:16 PM
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Well got them in and hooked up. I tried running straight from the Oppo as suggested, but I couldn't seem to get the timing right to make everything match up. Guessing it was because my pre/pro has a lag delay of -180ms and the Oppo only goes to -100ms? Whatever the reason I couldn't seem to get it right, so I ended up unplugging one of my sub outs from the pre/pro and going direct from there and that worked fine. (now have a Y cable on order)

Right now I have 4 SA units on 2 seats and a middle unit (seats boarded together/2 SA a seat) and I'm only using 18-20 volume on the Crowson D-501 amp, so thinking later on I might try just using 2 for that whole couch set and then crank the volume more. If that gives me the same feeling I'll probably just re-disperse the other 2 units to different couches to tide me over for now.

I forgot what it was like to sample so many movies. Helicopter scene from the Matrix with the gatling gun . . . oh man. Will tweak some more today and get ready for some Pacific Rim robot action tonight.
I use my oppo to feed my Crowon amp. What I did was to go into Setup on my 203, go into Speaker Configuration under Audio Processing and set the speakers to small and the delay for each channel to what my receiver set my sub to, which in my case is 12.5ft. I then set the sub out on the 203 to a delay of zero. I have a 5.1 setup so I set the downmix to 5.1 (it defaults to 7.1). This only affects analog, not what’s going out over HDMI. It seems pretty much on the money to me.
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post #1440 of 2728 Old 07-22-2018, 07:56 AM
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Finally ordered the crowson setup! Can't wait for it to arrive to see what the hype is all about! I blame it on you guys......in a good way!
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