Originally Posted by Nalleh
I don‘t follow ? As the farfield subs is the ones with 0 delay, you won’t gain anything. Remember the Denon limitation isn’t between sub1 and sub2 it is between the furthest and closest speakers.
No need to reconnect anything, just route the two sub inputs to your Mindsp to the same outputs(subs). Ie. Input 1 and 2 to output 1. And then change back after aud.
For negative delay (firing first) to happen, which is the farthest sub compared to closer subs, it needs to be the farthest distance in the AVR. So for me, that farthest sub is 12.2', then NFs on side walls at 6.6', then VNFs at 5.2'. This means for negative delay to happen on the MAs and BK's, it needs to be farther (in the AVR distance) than all these subs including the farthest sub (which is now only at 12.2' for the subs post Audy). If I do this on one subout, I'm limited (well more limited) because of my 15' max allowment in the miniDSP 10x10HD (which I'll need to put back in the minidsp for each sub to make up the difference once I up AVR distance to make the MAs and BK's the farthest to fire first (Acting like the farthest sub now). I can only put 24' tops for my sub distance for the MAs negative delay because of what Denon allows (only 20' past the closest speaker, which for me is 4'). Freakin Denon AVR, pisses me off!
Now that I have the subout 2 free of any subs (by using the Y splitter like I mentioned in my above post to trick Audy), I can put in 24' for this subout (my max with the Denon restriction to shortest distance speaker at 4'). This will give me 19.8' negative delay to the VNF subs since my VNFs ar at 5.2' (yes on the other subout but doesnt matter), which the VNFs give me most of my TR from subs and is most important for the MA's to be aligned with).
By using the second subout out subout 2, I wont have to mess with entering back in the distance in the miniDSP for each sub on subout 1 to keep all the subs time aligned with each other and the speakers. I don't have enough available distance in the 10x10HD to get 19.8ms negative delay to the VNFs. I do using this other method. Follow?
That's why I need to reconnect two cables in place of the Y from the AVR into one input on the mini to two (instead of routing input to output 1 & 2 like you say). I had to do this to trick Audy into giving me two subouts active, but really only using one for the subs. This way I get two subouts from the AVR with separate distance control for each subout. I NEED that other subout free and active in the AVR so I can set it to my max distance, which is 24' on my system with the Denon restriction of 20' past the shortest speaker distance. This way I can get the MOST negative delay I can. Its not a ton more, but still some. About 4-5ms more doing it this way.
I know all that is confusing, but is the way it works. Have you ever used only one subout for all your subs? It has to be done this way. Enter in the farthest sub distance into the AVR, then in the MiniDSP, you have to enter in the difference in distance to that next closet sub to the farthest sub, and so on for each sub that is closer (with VNFs being the closest). This keeps them all time aligned with each other and the speakers. BUT now we want the MAs/BKs to be the farthest and to fire first. A second subout just makes it way easier (for me anyway) and allows more distance since I don't have enough distance capability in the 10x10HD mini to put back in to get to use my max of 24' (max distance with my closet speaker being 4' away).
Hope all that made sense lol Maybe it's my thinking that is off here, but should work like a charm a think and as described. I've been wrong before though
Basically you just have to think of the MAs as another sub, and in this case the farthest sub in your system to get negative delay (firing before all your subs, and as much as we can get since we are not as lucky as the guys with Yamahas).
EDIT: Ok I miss figured the negative delay amount a little and also my AVR set my farthest sub to 8.9'instead of 12.2' (actually just the distance in the avr for subout 1 ..they are all on subout 1 and set up in the mini with appropriate distance added back in to the closer subs to time align them all to each other and the speakers). So doing it with two subouts and taking into account the restrictions of the 10x10HD and Denon's 20' max restriction past shortest distance speaker I'm only gaining 3.8' more of negative delay on the MAs/BKs by using two subouts (with MAs and BKs on the the subout 2 and All subs on subout 1) vs only using one subout (All subs plus MAs and BKes together on subout 1).
From the MAs/BKs I'll be getting 18.8ms negative delay to the VNFs, 17.4ms to the NFs, and 15.1ms on the FF
15ms, 13.6ms and 11.3
So not a ton more, less than I had originally thought, but hey 3.8ms firing faster just means timing and constructive combing will be that much better with the Subs and MAs/BKs. How much better, IDK, but I'll take it (for now anyway). I know that no negative delay was terrible and got cancellation out the wazzu for the really low stuff under 20hz and just continued to get better down super low to up higher the more ND I could add when I tested it not too long ago.