The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 65 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1921 of 2267 Old 02-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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A little update for you guys on a friday :

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wh...l#post57641778
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post #1922 of 2267 Old 02-22-2019, 08:55 AM
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^^^ uuhhhh yep ....you da man and my new TR hero!!! Thanks for the link, just went and checked it out. Wicked cool!!!!
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post #1923 of 2267 Old 02-22-2019, 10:00 AM
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57629400 @SBuger thank you for your sharing your thoughts. I did manage to get in touch with Mr Crowsons he did advise me that the newer designed sorbothane are more durable. Also the user guides warns not to move the furniture.

I am still waiting on him to process my order looks like he got busy this week.

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post #1924 of 2267 Old 02-22-2019, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
A little update for you guys on a friday :

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wh...l#post57641778
Genius.

Your subjective impressions on your thread are enough to make me re-think my whole "I'm done with upgrading my system" thing that I'm trying to cling to.
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post #1925 of 2267 Old 02-23-2019, 03:30 AM
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I’ve been getting low volume out of my Crowson’s almost from the beginning. Last night, I figured it out. Because I have 2 subs plus the Crowson’s, it was necessary to split the sub outs from my Yamaha 3060. When I gave the Crowson’s their own input, problem disappeared. I recognize I should have figured this out long ago, but better late than never!


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post #1926 of 2267 Old 02-23-2019, 11:31 AM
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Hi all. I'm Interested in purchasing some crowsons. Besides the ($800???) amp listed on the site what's the recommended amp to run these things off of?

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post #1927 of 2267 Old 02-23-2019, 11:34 AM
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Hi all. I'm Interested in purchasing some crowsons. Besides the ($800???) amp listed on the site what's the recommended amp to run these things off of?
NX3000D is a great fit for them, if you can live with the fan noise or do the fan mod.

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post #1928 of 2267 Old 02-26-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Do any of you guys know if you can calibrate with only one subout active and then post Audy turn on subout 2 in addition, and if so if it just duplicates to subout 2 as what Audy did to subout 1 on the Denons?
My 4300 won't allow this. Once I enable any output that wasn't previously set up via Audy, the AVR then disables Audy until you run thru the mic process again.



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post #1929 of 2267 Old 02-26-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
NX3000D is a great fit for them, if you can live with the fan noise or do the fan mod.

/Agree

I found the fan noise much more tolerable on the 6000 series than the 3000 that I did have to fan mod. I use my iNuke 6000DSP for a pair of Crowson’s and one DIY sub, but the amp would easily accommodate up to four actuators without breaking a sweat. If the OP sees themself adding anything down the road, the headroom of the 6000 will come in handy.

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post #1930 of 2267 Old 03-05-2019, 04:26 AM
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Did a little test comparing the different isolators available from Crowson. The older rubber one, the first gen sorbothanes, and the current gen2 sorbos.

White noise 0-50hz. Gen1 to the left, gen2 in the middle, and rubber to the right.



Sweep 0-60hz



6hz sine wave



15hz sine wave



It is very hard to get repetetive measurements to show the exact same result, so there is bound to be small differences, but these measurement more or less show the same between the different isos. They feel different in your hands, but that doesn’t show on measurements.

Will try to tests with movie content, and see if i can feel a difference.
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post #1931 of 2267 Old 03-05-2019, 08:11 AM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Did a little test comparing the different isolators available from Crowson. The older rubber one, the first gen sorbothanes, and the current gen2 sorbos.



It is very hard to get repetetive measurements to show the exact same result, so there is bound to be small differences, but these measurement more or less show the same between the different isos. They feel different in your hands, but that doesn’t show on measurements.



Will try to tests with movie content, and see if i can feel a difference.


Nice, is this using a 5lb bag of rice for weight? Demoing movie scenes back and forth seems like it would be challenging having to constantly swap the feet out and hope your TR memory is intact and sensitive enough to tell the difference.

I only ever had a 2lb bag of rice for weight during the few tests I posted in the Vibsensor thread using the EOTS intro, and my readings always had an unusually strong 5Hz tone even though the clip doesn’t contain one, possible furniture resonance maybe?

Interestingly, the first gen isolators seem to be a little more consistent with less variation between axis movement, but as you said, it could be a variable that’s hard to control in repeated tests and the differences appear very minimal. This also shows that you get great TR regardless of feet used. I’m still using half hard PE feet and half gen 1 and I love it.

How’s that awesome stacked MA setup going?
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post #1932 of 2267 Old 03-05-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Nice, is this using a 5lb bag of rice for weight? Demoing movie scenes back and forth seems like it would be challenging having to constantly swap the feet out and hope your TR memory is intact and sensitive enough to tell the difference.

I only ever had a 2lb bag of rice for weight during the few tests I posted in the Vibsensor thread using the EOTS intro, and my readings always had an unusually strong 5Hz tone even though the clip doesn’t contain one, possible furniture resonance maybe?

Interestingly, the first gen isolators seem to be a little more consistent with less variation between axis movement, but as you said, it could be a variable that’s hard to control in repeated tests and the differences appear very minimal. This also shows that you get great TR regardless of feet used. I’m still using half hard PE feet and half gen 1 and I love it.

How’s that awesome stacked MA setup going?
It is with 2 pound, as that is what i had

Here is some measurements of 1 vs 2 layers :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Small update again.

Got a little tune time in today with Vibsensor. I have separated the layers, so i can test with each and both. There seems to be slight differences between bottom layer and top measurements, and i suspect it is becouse the MA are kind of springy when not active, so the layer not active affects the active one.
Anyway it is clear to see that dual layers gives more movement than a single layer.

Here is White Noise 0-50 hz, what layer is active is in pic name.



Sweep 0-60hz.



6.5hz.



15hz.



Dual layer measures pretty equal to one layer, only louder. It is indeed like turning on a second setup(as that is exactly what is happening).

Anybody wanna see the response from the MA directly? Here is measurement with the Iphone directly ON the MA.



So after this i connected the amp like i had it before, two MA’s in parallel pr channel, including one channel on the second amp, and finally got the 4 BK’s connected to my spare amp, and started tuning.

WOW !! 6x NU6K, 6x MA’s, 4x BK’s is REALLY starting to get violent, LOL. It is so precise, linear, visceral, gut wrenching and jaw dropping, it is insane, LOL. I only tested with a few clips earlier, but holy moly this is fun. The earth shaking feeling from the MA’s deep down low, combined with the "slap me from behind" and violent punch from the BK’s is truly fun to experience. They really fill out each other perfectly And yes SBuger, it did help with 4 of them, compared to the 2 i had earlier. You were right Man they can shake things around, having a remote control laying on the couch centersection is hopeless, LOL.


I am a gadget man, so i got a little package in the mail the other day.



It is a bluetooth barbecue temp sensor kit with 6 sensors So now i can monitor temps on each MA, and do it from my phone, LOL.



I can even monitor it over time



It was very easy getting up and running, and they are already mounted on the spacer board to each MA, and it was much more responsive than the outside temp kit i have used up until now. Awsome
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post #1933 of 2267 Old 03-06-2019, 06:03 AM
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@Nalleh you gonna be the first ever to test the temp on those crowsons. Thanks for taking it up to the next level so we don't have to! LOL

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post #1934 of 2267 Old 03-06-2019, 09:38 AM
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@Nalleh you gonna be the first ever to test the temp on those crowsons. Thanks for taking it up to the next level so we don't have to! LOL
Lol, actually I have had a temp sensor one of of the MA’s for years

You can see it there, the white sensor on the nearest one




Edit: came to think about it, i have had temp sensors on my amps too, since i made the fan mod on them, to check if there was any changes.
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post #1935 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 08:44 AM
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Heres a silly question to ask in the Crowson forum

Upgrade my front row seating with 4 MA's or upgrade my HT with (4) atmos ceiling mounted speakers?

Any help is appreciated!
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post #1936 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 09:11 AM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Heres a silly question to ask in the Crowson forum



Upgrade my front row seating with 4 MA's or upgrade my HT with (4) atmos ceiling mounted speakers?



Any help is appreciated!

Not silly at all.

Need more info on your current setup, subs, listening habits, what you feel is lacking, etc. Crowsons will benefit nearly everyone, but four properly placed Atmos speakers bring a lot of enjoyment as well.
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post #1937 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Heres a silly question to ask in the Crowson forum

Upgrade my front row seating with 4 MA's or upgrade my HT with (4) atmos ceiling mounted speakers?

Any help is appreciated!

I added the ATMOS speakers first and think that was a good move. I greatly enjoy ATMOS for movies - and enjoy it even more for ATMOS enhanced games on my Xbox One X. I also use the upmixer for a lot of content for "simulated" ATMOS.


While I have excellent subwoofage, my theater is on a concrete floor which really hurt the tactile response even though my dual S3600s (4 - 18" drivers) pack a ton of punch in my relatively small theater. IIRC correctly, flat response from 10 Hz to 100 Hz at 118 or 120 dB+ with low end helped by room gain.


I've got 4 Crowsons for 3 theater chairs and love them (and can't part with them now) but I still think ATMOS first was a good call for me.
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post #1938 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Upgrade my front row seating with 4 MA's or upgrade my HT with (4) atmos ceiling mounted speakers?
Such a tough question because they are both HUGE upgrades. Can you do the Atmos speakers and 2 MAs for now? Bottom line, you want to do both for sure, but if I had to pick one to do first I might actually lean slightly toward MAs. Full disclosure: I'm a bass junkie.
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post #1939 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 10:44 AM
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^ Yeah, i agree with Aron, Atmos and Crowsons, and i think 2 Crowsons and 2 Atmos would be the best compromise . No problem upgrading down the line, to 4 Crowsons or 4 Atmos, or both
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post #1940 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Not silly at all.

Need more info on your current setup, subs, listening habits, what you feel is lacking, etc. Crowsons will benefit nearly everyone, but four properly placed Atmos speakers bring a lot of enjoyment as well.
Thanks Sek!

I've got a 7.2 setup currently. Watching mostly UHD BD and Apple TV in a dedicated theater. DIYSG 1099's all mains and surrounds are DIYSG Volt 8's. (6) large ported SW w/ 18" drivers all upfront behind acoustically transparent screen. All speakers are concealed behind AT screen or in columns. Very pleased with how the theater sounds in general.

Lots of tactile feel in back row, and a good amount in front row although I have no NFS in my theater and front row is sitting on carpeted floor on concrete slab so less tactile feel in front for sure.

I don't really feel like I"m lacking much but rather am trying to determine if the MA or Atmos adds more to my room. I could do (4) Atmos for 1k whereas MA for just my front row would cost almost 3k (4 MA and the amp).

Thoughts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
I added the ATMOS speakers first and think that was a good move. I greatly enjoy ATMOS for movies - and enjoy it even more for ATMOS enhanced games on my Xbox One X. I also use the upmixer for a lot of content for "simulated" ATMOS.


While I have excellent subwoofage, my theater is on a concrete floor which really hurt the tactile response even though my dual S3600s (4 - 18" drivers) pack a ton of punch in my relatively small theater. IIRC correctly, flat response from 10 Hz to 100 Hz at 118 or 120 dB+ with low end helped by room gain.


I've got 4 Crowsons for 3 theater chairs and love them (and can't part with them now) but I still think ATMOS first was a good call for me.
Working my way down just reading this no. Thanks Zorax! Incredible how similar our situations are haha.

Atmos enhanced XB1X games? I love VG and place XB1X alot in my theater, didn't know they had Atmos games, sounds awesome!

So Atmos first and then MA - noted thanks!
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post #1942 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Such a tough question because they are both HUGE upgrades. Can you do the Atmos speakers and 2 MAs for now? Bottom line, you want to do both for sure, but if I had to pick one to do first I might actually lean slightly toward MAs. Full disclosure: I'm a bass junkie.
Quote:
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^ Yeah, i agree with Aron, Atmos and Crowsons, and i think 2 Crowsons and 2 Atmos would be the best compromise . No problem upgrading down the line, to 4 Crowsons or 4 Atmos, or both
You guys bring up a great point. Maybe I'll start with 2 Atmos (front maybe?) and 2 MA. If I do that I won't need a new amp for Atmos as my receiver does 9.1 already so I can add 2 Atmos with no need for an amp.

Problem is I don't know how to make 2 MA work for my 3-seat front row...
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post #1943 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
You guys bring up a great point. Maybe I'll start with 2 Atmos (front maybe?) and 2 MA. If I do that I won't need a new amp for Atmos as my receiver does 9.1 already so I can add 2 Atmos with no need for an amp.

Problem is I don't know how to make 2 MA work for my 3-seat front row...
Just add 2 atmos since you already have avr that supports it. Only cost you is pair of speakers.

For 2 MAs for 3 seat front row. Is it 3 seat couch or 3 individual chairs? If its one piece use 1 MA per end at arm rest. If they are 3 individual chairs....I'd just do one chair or where people will sit the most for now.
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post #1944 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 02:12 PM
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For deeper immersion, I'd go for the 4 overhead ATMOS speakers (as much as I love tactile transducers) first.

That being said, consider some Buttkicker LFE, Advance, Minis or similar transducers (see Parts Express). I've had them all (including the Clark Synthesis) and I'm sure you could pick up some used here or on eBay at a great price to hold you over until you have $$$ for the Crowsons. You'll be able to resell the Buttkickers, if purchased used, without losing much money on the resale. Used Crowsons never show up on eBay and rarely on AVS.

The Crowsons are definitely better but I'd say the casual family members (spouse, kids, friends) might not appreciate the difference unless you directly compared them. I enjoyed my Buttkickers and I'm sure those would be a great interim option to allow you to get a full ATMOS setup.
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post #1945 of 2267 Old 03-07-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
The Crowsons are definitely better but I'd say the casual family members (spouse, kids, friends) might not appreciate the difference unless you directly compared them.
If I gave my Crowsons to another man I'd worry that my wife would leave me for that man She loves them and says they are definitely the best upgrade I've ever done.
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post #1946 of 2267 Old 03-08-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
For deeper immersion, I'd go for the 4 overhead ATMOS speakers (as much as I love tactile transducers) first.

That being said, consider some Buttkicker LFE, Advance, Minis or similar transducers (see Parts Express). I've had them all (including the Clark Synthesis) and I'm sure you could pick up some used here or on eBay at a great price to hold you over until you have $$$ for the Crowsons. You'll be able to resell the Buttkickers, if purchased used, without losing much money on the resale. Used Crowsons never show up on eBay and rarely on AVS.

The Crowsons are definitely better but I'd say the casual family members (spouse, kids, friends) might not appreciate the difference unless you directly compared them. I enjoyed my Buttkickers and I'm sure those would be a great interim option to allow you to get a full ATMOS setup.


Agree on the Atmos, that is definitely happening at this point; just working through exactly which speakers I will be buying. I will need to buy a two channel amp for the rear pair of Atmos which is not a problem. I appreciate the feedback on this one.

More than money is the time commitment. Wires are run for all Atmos and all motion actuators but I would still have to tear apart my rack and do work in the theater for both Atmos and actuators and I have very little free time at this particular season of life.This is why I was trying to work through one project at a time, not so much the money.

I have to say, a second reason I haven’t bought motion actuators yet is the price though! Again, not that I can’t afford but at over $500 a piece I still haven’t come to grips with the value? I assume if I would ever have a chance to try them I may reverse the statement but at face value it’s hard for me to justify it... regarding the butt kicker’s I’ll probably save myself the headache and go straight to the Crowsons if I choose to purchase

Thanks so much for the input!


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post #1947 of 2267 Old 03-08-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
If I gave my Crowsons to another man I'd worry that my wife would leave me for that man She loves them and says they are definitely the best upgrade I've ever done.


Must be kidding me!? This is exactly what I mean I don’t know what I missing apparently…


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post #1948 of 2267 Old 03-08-2019, 08:10 AM
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A year ago I would have said 7.1.4 ATMOS>Crowsons (as that is the order I built my system)

But with the latest BEQ developments (Thanks @aron7awol )
BEQ thread Here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56610134

Almost ALL movies have extended range that falls Far Deeper into the ULF range that even the BEST Subs cannot reach.

I already had a VERY capable pair of Funk Audio 18.0 subs ( 4800 peak watts each and good down to 10Hz) but being in a concrete basement
the ULF was not impacting my seating as much as I wanted, so I had an order in place for an addition Funk Sub (a 24.0 this time) to go behind my MLP
(I already had a pair of Velodyne 15's rear/near field, but they were limited to ~20Hz)

While awaiting my new Funk order, My Crowson order arrived and HOLYS**T! , it was just two actuators and the D-501 amp,
But it delivered the Goods in Spades! I cancelled the Funk order and immediately dropped another $1K on another pair of Crows instead.

Total $2500 may seem like a lot, but that brute of a Funk 24.0 was going to be more than Double that!
AND the Crowson's work Hard right down to 3Hz It's down right Violent!!!

I don't have to worry about disturbing the neighbors during late movie nights now
...or causing structural damage to my home ...or my ears

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post #1949 of 2267 Old 03-08-2019, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
If I gave my Crowsons to another man I'd worry that my wife would leave me for that man She loves them and says they are definitely the best upgrade I've ever done.
LMAO, that's awesome! Quite the endorsement and true testament of just how great the Crowson MAs can truly be hahahhahaha
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post #1950 of 2267 Old 03-08-2019, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
I have to say, a second reason I haven’t bought motion actuators yet is the price though! Again, not that I can’t afford but at over $500 a piece I still haven’t come to grips with the value? I assume if I would ever have a chance to try them I may reverse the statement but at face value it’s hard for me to justify it.
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Must be kidding me!? This is exactly what I mean I don’t know what I missing apparently…
I think we all kind of felt that way before we experienced them. "I'm spending $2500 on these little black blocks?" Then you get them and not only are you instantly okay with their price, but you realize they are actually an incredible value. I've said it before, they may be the best money I've ever spent on my system. And like Pio said, if you want to feed them MAs with some constant ULF goodness, join the BEQ club!

The other awesome part about MAs is just how simple the install and integration is. If the money isn't an issue, just get them, there's no way you'll regret it.

The only part I was kidding about is the fear of my wife leaving me. She really does love them, and says they are the best upgrade I've done. Atmos would be a close 2nd.
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