The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 76 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2251 of 2267 Old 04-18-2019, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
Do you guys have a problem with overheating the MA's? For ease of initial setup I am running mine on carpet, all with Crowson isos. I absolutely love them!

However I find myself jumping up mid movie to test how hot they are getting. Mine seem to get pretty damn hot!!
What's the volume level on your D-501?

I placed plywood under my MA's because I wanted a firm flat surface under them
...and I knew having them buried in my 2" thick carpet would smother them (and the lower vent hole in the bottom)

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post #2252 of 2267 Old 04-18-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
What's volume level on your D-501?



I placed plywood under my MA's because I wanted a firm flat surface under them

...and I knew having them buried in my 2" thick carpet would smother them (and the lower vent hole in the bottom)


When I start pushing high 20s (move mode) with movies pretty loud volume and long scenes with lots of ULF they start getting pretty hot.

I figured the exact same thing that running them on carpet not only is it not the most efficient way for TR but certainly not the most efficient for cooling. Talking to Randolph Crowson they are designed to run on carpet or hard surfaces and he suggested I just give it a shot this way initially. I think it could work out but I hate being limited by heat it seems like they have plenty of gusto in regards to tactile response they just can’t hold it very long sometimes due to heat buildup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EDIT - watched a couple movies this weekend. No heat issues and enjoying the lower XO (40Hz ATM).

MiniDSP 2x4 HD arriving today!

At the risk of going off topic a bit - would you guys recommend I use the minidsp for limiter and EQ of subwoofer array or continue to use the iNuke 3000dsp for this reason?

I've got the minidsp and now trying to understand the best way to integrate into AVR/SW Array/Crowsons.

Anxious to try BEQ!
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post #2253 of 2267 Old 04-23-2019, 04:56 PM
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Getting the setup tomorrow and need to get the chairs ready.

Am I ok mounting (w/ screws) 3" strips across the front and back wood rails, and then mounting the ISOs on the front and back strips with an MA in the center of the back strip?...or should I cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that essentially covers the entire bottom, including the front and back rails, and then mount the ISOs and MA on that?

Thx.
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post #2254 of 2267 Old 04-24-2019, 12:11 AM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ht guy View Post
Getting the setup tomorrow and need to get the chairs ready.



Am I ok mounting (w/ screws) 3" strips across the front and back wood rails, and then mounting the ISOs on the front and back strips with an MA in the center of the back strip?...or should I cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that essentially covers the entire bottom, including the front and back rails, and then mount the ISOs and MA on that?



Thx.

I prefer a piece of plywood under mine (but it’s a metal frame couch), might possibly better distribute the energy than a cross bar attached between the seats, but something similar to what you’re doing is probably what Crowson has more in mind for most theater chairs or just replacing the feet with MA’s and isos altogether; I don’t think they expect everyone to put them under a sheet of plywood.

Your method should work just fine as well depending on how rigid your seating is to properly distribute the TR, as long as everything is even and balanced with the isolation feet under the cross bar and your seating is stable, go for it!
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post #2255 of 2267 Old 05-18-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
First, let's sort everything by distance based on what you've told me so far:
Crowsons 0'
MBM <1'
Back Surrounds 5'
Rear Subs 5.5'
Surrounds 5.5'
Center 15.5'
LR 16'
Front Subs 17'

If you could control delay on every one of these individually, only the furthest one gets no delay, and everything else gets more delay as it gets closer. Let's use 1ms per foot, and ignore amp delay to keep it simple...

Crowsons 0' This is a special case, let's leave it alone for now
MBM <1' ~16ms
Back Surrounds 5' 12ms
Rear Subs 5.5' 11.5ms
Surrounds 5.5' 11.5ms
Center 15.5' 1.5ms
LR 16' 1ms
Front Subs 17' 0ms

The sound waves that take the longest to get to you are coming from your front subs. Everything else has to be delayed so that their sound waves don't get you before the front subs' do.

By having your previous setting of 0' distance for your sub out, you were telling your AVR to delay that sub out channel by 17ms (dictated by your furthest distance setting 17' minus the 0' you set it to). All of your subs were getting that 17ms delay just from the AVR, plus whatever you set for delays in the MiniDSP. But as you'll see in the list above, even the 17ms of delay from the AVR is already too much for all of them other than maybe the MBM.

Hopefully that clarifies things for you...
It certainly helped me!
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post #2256 of 2267 Old 05-20-2019, 05:26 PM
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How would you recommend I wire up 12 activators to a 4 channel amp? Should I have 3 in parallel per channel? If not, what are my alternatives. The amp is able to go down to 2 ohms, though I would suspect it will start to run hot. Thanks!

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post #2257 of 2267 Old 05-20-2019, 11:42 PM
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The &quot;Official&quot; Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

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Originally Posted by bjorg View Post
How would you recommend I wire up 12 activators to a 4 channel amp? Should I have 3 in parallel per channel? If not, what are my alternatives. The amp is able to go down to 2 ohms, though I would suspect it will start to run hot. Thanks!

Depends on the amp’s power and how stable it is at 2ohm, but wiring series/parallel with 4 MA’s per channel for an 8ohm load is probably the easiest option, best sticking with an even number of actuators per channel; you’ll just have one unused amp and that’s OK...should you need 16 MA’s.

Example wiring for series/parallel:
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post #2258 of 2267 Old 05-21-2019, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Depends on the amp’s power and how stable it is at 2ohm, but wiring series/parallel with 4 MA’s per channel for an 8ohm load is probably the easiest option, best sticking with an even number of actuators per channel; you’ll just have one unused amp and that’s OK...should you need 16 MA’s.
Is there a wiring for 3 per channel? I'd like to experiment with left/right separation to complement my side subs. Probably a crazy idea, but I won't know for sure until I've tried it!

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post #2259 of 2267 Old 05-21-2019, 07:15 AM
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The &quot;Official&quot; Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorg View Post
Is there a wiring for 3 per channel? I'd like to experiment with left/right separation to complement my side subs. Probably a crazy idea, but I won't know for sure until I've tried it!

What amp are you using?

You can wire 4 MA’s in parallel for a 2ohm load or stick with just 3 in parallel for a 2.66ohm load, if more power is needed than a higher series/parallel load would provide. These lower loads are harder on the amplifier.

Running only 3 or 4 per channel in parallel with an 8ohm MA like the Crowsons is difficult for some amps to safely power (but if yours is rated for it that’s ok), because you can’t wire them properly to be stable with ample power, and series wiring is a bad option for 3 of these, as that’d be a 24ohm load, which is too high.

I think you’d need something like 1500watts per channel into a 2-3ohm load to adequately power them to their full potential this way, with each MA getting 33% of the power with 3 in parallel.

Parallel wiring 3 MA’s:

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post #2260 of 2267 Old 05-21-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I think you’d need something like 1500watts per channel into a 2-3ohm load to adequately power them to their full potential this way, with each MA getting 33% of the power with 3 in parallel.
Thanks for the quick response!

The amp is rated 1400W at 2.7 ohm and 1200W at 2ohm. So, it's definitively running out of steam at such low ohmage. There is a more powerful iteration of the same amp that has 2200W at 2.7ohm and 2000W at 2ohm. That just seems way overkill, no?

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post #2261 of 2267 Old 05-21-2019, 09:44 AM
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The &quot;Official&quot; Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorg View Post
Thanks for the quick response!



The amp is rated 1400W at 2.7 ohm and 1200W at 2ohm. So, it's definitively running out of steam at such low ohmage. There is a more powerful iteration of the same amp that has 2200W at 2.7ohm and 2000W at 2ohm. That just seems way overkill, no?

No problem.

A bit of overkill never hurt, but I think if the first amp puts out a true 1400w into 2.7 ohm per channel, you’ll be fine going with 3 MA’s in parallel. I doubt you’ll be running them all full tilt to need absolute max power, and an extra 100w is really inconsequential with that much power. Sounds like a good fit.
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post #2262 of 2267 Old 05-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.
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post #2263 of 2267 Old 06-07-2019, 11:51 PM
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Crowson & palliser theater seats

Hi

I currently have 3 Palliser Brando Theater Seats with Power Recline and Aura Bass Shakers.

The room is in the basement so the floor is concrete with carpet and underlay.

Would I be able to add Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators to these seats?

I would like to add four actuators ... one for each arm and use the Crowson D500 to power them.

My concern is how the actuators would work on a concrete floor with carpet and underlay?

Also would there be a problem with heat generated from the actuators if they are sitting on carpet and excess heat build up?

My last concern is about the structural strength of the theater seats themselves as the Palliser Seats arrive in modular pieces and the arm section push onto the seat seat section and I just wonder how this would all work with the Crowson system.

If anyone has used the Crowson system with Palliser seats or similiar seats please let me know how it worked out.

Thanks for any help.
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post #2264 of 2267 Old 06-08-2019, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC57 View Post
Hi

I currently have 3 Palliser Brando Theater Seats with Power Recline and Aura Bass Shakers.

The room is in the basement so the floor is concrete with carpet and underlay.

Would I be able to add Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators to these seats?

I would like to add four actuators ... one for each arm and use the Crowson D500 to power them.

My concern is how the actuators would work on a concrete floor with carpet and underlay?

Also would there be a problem with heat generated from the actuators if they are sitting on carpet and excess heat build up?

My last concern is about the structural strength of the theater seats themselves as the Palliser Seats arrive in modular pieces and the arm section push onto the seat seat section and I just wonder how this would all work with the Crowson system.

If anyone has used the Crowson system with Palliser seats or similiar seats please let me know how it worked out.

Thanks for any help.

I have similar seating with the Palliser Lemans series which are modular and slide next to each other.

While I now have a low pile carpet and thinner pad, I had been using 4 Crowsons with a medium pile carpet and standard "plush" pad (1/2" or 3/8"). The Crowsons and the weight of people and chairs eventually compressed the pad and I don't think there was a big loss in performance.

My greatest expense is that the Palliser seats have SO many legs to support the distribute weight of the chairs and I got the special sorbathane(?) isolators for each foot from Crowson. Make sure you use Magic Sliders (the Teflon furniture sliders) with each one to allow the chairs to be gently slid around if needed. The isolators break very easily otherwise.

The other thing I needed to do was use a MiniDSP to boost the signal to the Crowson amp as I always had it maxed out for gaming at -20 dB or quieter. I wanted to have the kick from the Crowsons when gaming since I can't always have the bass cranked up at home. We usually watch movies at -10dB to -12dB and there the gain is ok. Part of my LFE gain problem is due to having two large subs (dual PSA S3601s) in a very small room using a Denon with the output to subs at -11.5 dB.

The Crowsons have been awesome. I previously had Buttkickers built into the seats and with the floor mount kits and Clark Synthesis and the Crowsons are simply a much better system.

If I had room, I would have gone vented subs for greater mid-range output. My subs have incredible low output given my small room but give up some of the tactile response due to the concrete floor and losing some mid-range output as compared to a similar size vented sub.

You will be happy with the Crowsons. Good luck!

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post #2265 of 2267 Old 06-08-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
I have similar seating with the Palliser Lemans series which are modular and slide next to each other.

While I now have a low pile carpet and thinner pad, I had been using 4 Crowsons with a medium pile carpet and standard "plush" pad (1/2" or 3/8"). The Crowsons and the weight of people and chairs eventually compressed the pad and I don't think there was a big loss in performance.

My greatest expense is that the Palliser seats have SO many legs to support the distribute weight of the chairs and I got the special sorbathane(?) isolators for each foot from Crowson. Make sure you use Magic Sliders (the Teflon furniture sliders) with each one to allow the chairs to be gently slid around if needed. The isolators break very easily otherwise.

The other thing I needed to do was use a MiniDSP to boost the signal to the Crowson amp as I always had it maxed out for gaming at -20 dB or quieter. I wanted to have the kick from the Crowsons when gaming since I can't always have the bass cranked up at home. We usually watch movies at -10dB to -12dB and there the gain is ok. Part of my LFE gain problem is due to having two large subs (dual PSA S3601s) in a very small room using a Denon with the output to subs at -11.5 dB.

The Crowsons have been awesome. I previously had Buttkickers built into the seats and with the floor mount kits and Clark Synthesis and the Crowsons are simply a much better system.

If I had room, I would have gone vented subs for greater mid-range output. My subs have incredible low output given my small room but give up some of the tactile response due to the concrete floor and losing some mid-range output as compared to a similar size vented sub.

You will be happy with the Crowsons. Good luck!
Thanks for the reply and information.

It looks like your seats would have a similar construction as my existing seats so that is reassuring.

I would definitely order the upgrade to the Black Sorbathane Motion Isolator for sure.

I have 3 seats so four arms which would take 4 Actuators and 4 Black Sorbathane Motion Isolator.

In the near future I will doing some renovations in my room so I will be taking the seats apart which would be the ideal time to install the Crownson system when I re-assemble everything.

The chairs are never moved around so I do not think I will need the Magic Slider suggestion.... I will just install the Crowson components and let them sit on the existing carpet/underlay which I would think is pretty flatten out by now with the chairs being in place for 12 years.

Thanks again.
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post #2266 of 2267 Old 06-11-2019, 06:25 PM
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Anybody with a 3070 or 3080 (or equivalent) Yamaha that could give me a good starting point when using the Crowson D-501 amp and 4 of the actuators? Realizing that all systems are different, I'm just trying to get an idea, that if the sub channel is set at -4 on the Yamaha, start the D-501 at 10? 20?

Also, I'm wanting to add 2 more actuators. Can the D-501 handle 2 ohms (or whatever it gets to with 3 actuators in parallel on each channel?)

Thx.

Last edited by ht guy; 06-11-2019 at 06:32 PM.
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post #2267 of 2267 Old 06-12-2019, 02:59 AM
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Anybody with a 3070 or 3080 (or equivalent) Yamaha that could give me a good starting point when using the Crowson D-501 amp and 4 of the actuators? Realizing that all systems are different, I'm just trying to get an idea, that if the sub channel is set at -4 on the Yamaha, start the D-501 at 10? 20?

Also, I'm wanting to add 2 more actuators. Can the D-501 handle 2 ohms (or whatever it gets to with 3 actuators in parallel on each channel?)

Thx.
I'm using the 2070 with the D-501, Sub Out 1 to my sub and Sub Out 2 to the D-501. I have the sub out channel level to the D-501 set at "0" per a conversation with Randolph Crowson and the intensity level on the D-501 at 21. The Distance setting in the Yamaha for the Crowson channel is at 70 feet
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