The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 82 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2431 of 2496 Old 10-01-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I think it's the connection between the wire and the inside of the screw hole that is doing the work for me, not the screw itself.

I asked about whether you tested connected/disconnected because I wonder if it gets rid of most but not all of the noise. For all I know, there might be a 10dB difference for me too if I disconnect my Behringer from the mDSP, but I never tested it. I think it's great that you're testing this is so much detail and am looking forward to seeing the results. You might as well compare the way you have it grounded now with the screw hole I used to see if there's any difference there as well.
Yes, will do. Might be the weekend before I can sit down properly and do it all. I do have some better cables en route too, but I'm not sure they will arrive by the weekend. The XLR to RCA though, I just have the monopirice one.
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post #2432 of 2496 Old 10-01-2019, 07:39 PM
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Yes, will do. Might be the weekend before I can sit down properly and do it all. I do have some better cables en route too, but I'm not sure they will arrive by the weekend. The XLR to RCA though, I just have the monopirice one.
Awesome, thanks for doing it. The difference between cables will be interesting data as well.
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post #2433 of 2496 Old 10-01-2019, 08:35 PM
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Awesome, thanks for doing it. The difference between cables will be interesting data as well.
Are you using a monoprice too for the XLR / RCA? Or RCA to 1/4 TS? Adapters? I would like to get a few options for that too.
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post #2434 of 2496 Old 10-01-2019, 09:26 PM
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Are you using a monoprice too for the XLR / RCA? Or RCA to 1/4 TS? Adapters? I would like to get a few options for that too.
I'm using standard RCAs I had lying around and RCA to 1/4 adapters.
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post #2435 of 2496 Old 10-01-2019, 09:30 PM
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I'm using standard RCAs I had lying around and RCA to 1/4 adapters.
Cheers. Yes I only just realized the 1/4 was an option and have ordered an adapter. To be honest their manual is just horrible. Not enough searchable text, very poor quality images, and that whole multi language interleaving is ridiculous. Sure maybe for saving money printing, but they could at least publish a decent online reference.
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post #2436 of 2496 Old 10-02-2019, 04:35 PM
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Just a quick question on orientation. Is there a recommended orientation for the actuators with respect to the subwoofers? I'm not actually sure if the motion of the actuators is actually up and down vertically, or is left and right when looking from the terminals, or front back, or circular. So for example if front back would you want it to be in or out of phase with the subwoofer? Eg so when the subwoofer is pushing out, the crowson would pull back? Eg so technically the motion of the couch would actually be moving air in the same or opposite direction to the sub.

Edit: I actually got a response from Crowson on it - the motion is up down so orientation not important, but they recommend pointing inside so terminals aren't accidentally stepped on.

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post #2437 of 2496 Old 10-02-2019, 04:49 PM
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They move vertically, so orientation doesn't matter. As for phase, I'd suggest trying it both ways and seeing which you like better. I think most people would probably prefer in-phase so that a hard transient is lifting rather dropping, but maybe some people would prefer the opposite.
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So I purchased some Crowsons today to be used under my HTmarket chairs. Anyone use these with those particular chairs? They have like 6 feet. I’m thinking plywood under the chair may be the easiest.
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post #2439 of 2496 Old 10-02-2019, 06:13 PM
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So I purchased some Crowsons today to be used under my HTmarket chairs. Anyone use these with those particular chairs? They have like 6 feet. I’m thinking plywood under the chair may be the easiest.
Looks like you beat me to the punch buying @healthnut crowsons! You are going to love them!!!!

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Looks like you beat me to the punch buying @healthnut crowsons! You are going to love them!!!!
Yes I was quite lucky for a change. Should play the lottery tonight. I was going to buy new tomorrow so his post came up at the right time.
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post #2441 of 2496 Old 10-03-2019, 04:37 AM
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Awesome, thanks for doing it. The difference between cables will be interesting data as well.
I think the Behringer PSU is faulty on mine. It just gets worse, so I'm getting audible noise with peq curves that are minor and not aggressive at all, so maybe a 14dg 23hz low shelf, and a low PEQ.

So figure wise, with no grounding, the Behringer connected, flat eq, -76db in and out. Ground cable attached, -86. Behringer output from DSP disconnected, -96. No inputs or outputs connected, -96.

I'm still waiting on cables, but I've ordered a Crowson amp anyhow. It should have arrived today, but for some reason the idiot couriers didn't bother trying and it sat at the Depot all day, about 15 miles away. I never have issues with the Aussie postal service, they are great, but couriers here are an unlucky dip, and a bucket of irritation.

Edit: by the way, when I'm talking about the Behringer connected, I mean just connected. Power off at the front.
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post #2442 of 2496 Old 10-04-2019, 08:22 PM
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OK, got the Crowson amp setup now, and minidsp, AVR, and crowson grounded, and 98db on both sides. And the miniDSP - ground is that spare screw next to out 4. That said, a really aggressive curve can still boost any noise on it. So that is where I guess great cables come in.

I'm still waiting on better cables though. The ones to the sub are only so so. I have replacements for all though, and
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post #2443 of 2496 Old 10-04-2019, 09:49 PM
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So I purchased some Crowsons today to be used under my HTmarket chairs. Anyone use these with those particular chairs? They have like 6 feet. I’m thinking plywood under the chair may be the easiest.
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Looks like you beat me to the punch buying @healthnut crowsons! You are going to love them!!!!
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Yes I was quite lucky for a change. Should play the lottery tonight. I was going to buy new tomorrow so his post came up at the right time.
LOL @ereed - you were a little late too huh We'll Im glad one of you guys ended up with them so I didn't have to buy them hahaha. I saw them listed on there tonight when I checked to see if there was anything good that I thought I had to have (I'm looking for another Inuke6000DSP actually since one of mine is trying to go out on me recently). Anyway when I saw them listed and for that price, I was like "oh hell, I'm might just have to snatch those up, cause ya know ...I need more TR devices ...NOT!!! LOL But the MA's are just soooooo good, and at that price ...but then I saw they were sold already (no surprise there!!!).

So CONGRATS @keeper !!!! Score big time!!!!!

So, about the HT chairs and all the little feets. I have the HTmarket Pembrokes, and yup ....lots of little feet (to damn many!! LOL). Ive actually never tried plywood under the seat frame because they seem to work so well were I have them now with my particular setup, but would probably be great on your seats. I'm currently running mine (2 per seat (3 seats)) under each of the back inside frame feet. They feel different under the outside feet under the arm rests, as well as an intensity difference. You may try all three ways and see which feel you like best. Which model HTmarket seats you have?
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OK, got the Crowson amp setup now, and minidsp, AVR, and crowson grounded, and 98db on both sides. And the miniDSP - ground is that spare screw next to out 4. That said, a really aggressive curve can still boost any noise on it. So that is where I guess great cables come in.

I'm still waiting on better cables though. The ones to the sub are only so so. I have replacements for all though, and
BTW, one thing I don't quite get is why 10 or 20db noise gets amplified by the miniDSP, event if the equalization is all below 20hz. So the noise I can physically see manifest with actual audible noise on the DSP output vs input is 50hz. Eg I have a beq curve sub 20, -86db on input with the Behringer, and then output is showing -50db and audible as 50hz noise. I don't get it.
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post #2445 of 2496 Old 10-04-2019, 11:47 PM
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OK, got the Crowson amp setup now, and minidsp, AVR, and crowson grounded, and 98db on both sides. And the miniDSP - ground is that spare screw next to out 4. That said, a really aggressive curve can still boost any noise on it. So that is where I guess great cables come in.

I'm still waiting on better cables though. The ones to the sub are only so so. I have replacements for all though, and
BTW, one thing I don't quite get is why 10 or 20db noise gets amplified by the miniDSP, event if the equalization is all below 20hz. So the noise I can physically see manifest with actual audible noise on the DSP output vs input is 50hz. Eg I have a beq curve sub 20, -86db on input with the Behringer, and then output is showing -50db and audible as 50hz noise. I don't get it.
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post #2446 of 2496 Old 10-05-2019, 01:05 AM
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LOL @ereed - you were a little late too huh We'll Im glad one of you guys ended up with them so I didn't have to buy them hahaha. I saw them listed on there tonight when I checked to see if there was anything good that I thought I had to have (I'm looking for another Inuke6000DSP actually since one of mine is trying to go out on me recently). Anyway when I saw them listed and for that price, I was like "oh hell, I'm might just have to snatch those up, cause ya know ...I need more TR devices ...NOT!!! LOL But the MA's are just soooooo good, and at that price ...but then I saw they were sold already (no surprise there!!!).

So CONGRATS @keeper !!!! Score big time!!!!!

So, about the HT chairs and all the little feets. I have the HTmarket Pembrokes, and yup ....lots of little feet (to damn many!! LOL). Ive actually never tried plywood under the seat frame because they seem to work so well were I have them now with my particular setup, but would probably be great on your seats. I'm currently running mine (2 per seat (3 seats)) under each of the back inside frame feet. They feel different under the outside feet under the arm rests, as well as an intensity difference. You may try all three ways and see which feel you like best. Which model HTmarket seats you have?
Haha yep I did get lucky. I have the Hamilton’s. So you put yours under the frame feat on the outside corners I’m guessing? Being that the frame is metal and I read something about the Crowsons and metal reacting in a negative way, Do you have anything between them?i know the feet are hard plastic but the Crowsons still must be pretty close to the frame. Any issues with this?
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post #2447 of 2496 Old 10-05-2019, 03:49 AM
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Yeah I'm wondering on the instructions too. I have mine under the actual plastic couch feet and they work great. I am meaning to pot all the isolators on the couch feet too, but I'd really need to glue them with sikkaflex or something durable.

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LOL @ereed - you were a little late too huh We'll Im glad one of you guys ended up with them so I didn't have to buy them hahaha. I saw them listed on there tonight when I checked to see if there was anything good that I thought I had to have (I'm looking for another Inuke6000DSP actually since one of mine is trying to go out on me recently). Anyway when I saw them listed and for that price, I was like "oh hell, I'm might just have to snatch those up, cause ya know ...I need more TR devices ...NOT!!! LOL But the MA's are just soooooo good, and at that price ...but then I saw they were sold already (no surprise there!!!).
Yeah, I currently have 4 seats (modular) and using 2 actuators only for 2 inside seats for me and my wife. The outside seats never get used but adding more wouldn't hurt! lol
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Haha yep I did get lucky. I have the Hamilton’s. So you put yours under the frame feat on the outside corners I’m guessing? Being that the frame is metal and I read something about the Crowsons and metal reacting in a negative way, Do you have anything between them?i know the feet are hard plastic but the Crowsons still must be pretty close to the frame. Any issues with this?
Currently I have them on the inside back feet (the little hard plastic feet on the inner frame). Not under the armrest feet. I think that is sufficient enough for keeping them off the metal. They work great this way. But I have tried them along the inner frame itself as well where there are no plastic feet and then just used little wood blocks to keep them off the metal. Both ways are good. I'll post a couple pics to show to give you a better idea what I'm talking about.

Here is a pic the way I currently have the MAs under the inner frame plastic feet (one under each of the two feet):


Also, here is a couple shots of how I had them a while back with wood blocks to keep the MAs off the metal. First more in the middle of the seat, then in the 2nd pic placed just ahead of the little plastic inner frame seat feet on the back:



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Currently I have them on the inside back feet (the little hard plastic feet on the inner frame). Not under the armrest feet. I think that is sufficient enough for keeping them off the metal. They work great this way. But I have tried them along the inner frame itself as well where there are no plastic feet and then just used little wood blocks to keep them off the metal. Both ways are good. I'll post a couple pics to show to give you a better idea what I'm talking about.

Here is a pic the way I currently have the MAs under the inner frame plastic feet (one under each of the two feet):


Also, here is a couple shots of how I had them a while back with wood blocks to keep the MAs off the metal. First more in the middle of the seat, then in the 2nd pic placed just ahead of the little plastic inner frame seat feet on the back:


I appreciate you posting pics. Your seats are a little different than mine but close enough. I have some work do thanks.
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post #2451 of 2496 Old 10-08-2019, 02:24 PM
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The way we all do it is we enter this sort of "user EQ" on the outputs in the mDSP, and the BEQ filters get entered on the inputs. The BEQD merge function even automates combining the BEQ filters on the inputs with the "user EQ" on the outputs for each title.

If you want to see exactly what Audy is doing, you can use the Crowson output of your mDSP as a direct input in REW and run a sweep. Then add filters to that Crowson output to try to counter what Audy is doing and then run another sweep. Repeat until you are satisfied with the response.

Why are you adding that 5dB gain? You are increasing the risk of clipping your mDSP by doing so. Can you turn up your Crowson amp instead? That would be a much better approach. In fact, if you can turn your sub amp(s) and Crowson amp up, I'd suggest you lower the sub trim even further than the -5 you have it at to reduce the chance of clipping your AVR sub out and/or your mDSP.

What do you mean by total guesswork? I've eliminated any and all guesswork for the nearly 1,000 titles I've designed filters for.
Just now reading this, thank you very much for the tips. Especially the 5db tip with the mDSP, I didn't realize clipping the mDSP was a danger.
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post #2452 of 2496 Old 10-26-2019, 06:49 PM
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Finally had a chance to mess with these a bit. I’m impressed. No doubt they add a lot to the experience. Any tips for time aligning these?
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post #2453 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 11:00 AM
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Finally had a chance to mess with these a bit. I’m impressed. No doubt they add a lot to the experience. Any tips for time aligning these?
You need "negative" delay with the MAs.

What AVR are you using and are you using a MiniDSP (if so, which version)? Which amp are you using with the MAs?
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Assuming your wooden couch frame covers the whole MA, in the attached picture which positioning would you guys expect the best performance from? I don't have couch legs.

Thanks!
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Assuming your wooden couch frame covers the whole MA, in the attached picture which positioning would you guys expect the best performance from? I don't have couch legs.

Thanks!
I have a piece of plywood covering the entire bottom of my recliner and have my MAs placed as #3 in your pic.
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I have a piece of plywood covering the entire bottom of my recliner and have my MAs placed as #3 in your pic.
Thanks!

I don't have the plywood. Does that make a big difference for you or is it a minimum requirement that you just started with? I have a 3 seat couch with 2 MAs and I get easily the best performance towards the middle of the couch. I also get noise from the MA occasionally.

I haven't tried position 3, Guess I will tonight. Tried variants of 1 mainly.

TCL 65R615/Denon X4400H/EMOTIVA A-300/CHANE 2.4A LRC/HSU HB1-MK2 Surrounds/CHANE 1.4 Rear Surrounds/4x RSL C34E Atmos/2x SVS PB3000/GIK Accoustics 8 244s 4 tri traps/2x Crowson MAs
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post #2457 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 12:51 PM
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Thanks!

I don't have the plywood. Does that make a big difference for you or is it a minimum requirement that you just started with? I have a 3 seat couch with 2 MAs and I get easily the best performance towards the middle of the couch. I also get noise from the MA occasionally.

I haven't tried position 3, Guess I will tonight. Tried variants of 1 mainly.
Well, you did say "Assuming your wooden couch frame covers the whole MA"...so, I assumed your couch frame was a solid piece covering the entire bottom, is it not? If not, yes, a piece of plywood attached to the couch would help stiffen it up and distribute the force more evenly across a wider area.

You say you get the best performance towards the middle of he couch...do you mean where you are seated or where you locate the MAs?
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post #2458 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, you did say "Assuming your wooden couch frame covers the whole MA"...so, I assumed your couch frame was a solid piece covering the entire bottom, is it not? If not, yes, a piece of plywood attached to the couch would help stiffen it up and distribute the force more evenly across a wider area.

You say you get the best performance towards the middle of he couch...do you mean where you are seated or where you locate the MAs?
Where I am seated. If I sit in the center it has the best impact there easily. The MA's are always at the corner, its the only way it would work. I mean that the wood frame at eachcorner is solid enough to cover the MA if I were to completely cover the MA with the couch.
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TCL 65R615/Denon X4400H/EMOTIVA A-300/CHANE 2.4A LRC/HSU HB1-MK2 Surrounds/CHANE 1.4 Rear Surrounds/4x RSL C34E Atmos/2x SVS PB3000/GIK Accoustics 8 244s 4 tri traps/2x Crowson MAs
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post #2459 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 03:50 PM
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Right now a Yamaha 3040 soon to be 3080. No minidsp but need to get one. Using the d501 crowson amp. Thanks for your help.
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post #2460 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 04:06 PM
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Right now a Yamaha 3040 soon to be 3080. No minidsp but need to get one. Using the d501 crowson amp. Thanks for your help.
So, does your Yamaha have separate dual subwoofer outputs? By separate, I mean you can set separate distances and levels for each. I know the D501 does not have any delay capability, so if your Yamaha doesn't have discrete dual subs, you are kind of in a pickle until you get a MiniDSP.
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