The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 04:11 PM
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Right now a Yamaha 3040 soon to be 3080. No minidsp but need to get one. Using the d501 crowson amp. Thanks for your help.
So, does your Yamaha have separate dual subwoofer outputs? By separate, I mean you can set separate distances and levels for each. I know the D501 does not have any delay capability, so if your Yamaha doesn't have discrete dual subs, you are kind of in a pickle until you get a MiniDSP.
Oh yeah the 3040 has two separate sub outputs. Maybe I’m not sensitive enough to sight-feel but in my experimenting I can’t tell that they are off. I know some guys are changing the distance to 70ft and I haven’t tried that yet. Maybe I’m also not listening to the right material either. Couple of low bass Blu-ray’s such as Hacksaw Ridge, polar express, Overlord.
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post #2462 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 05:37 PM
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Oh yeah the 3040 has two separate sub outputs. Maybe I’m not sensitive enough to sight-feel but in my experimenting I can’t tell that they are off. I know some guys are changing the distance to 70ft and I haven’t tried that yet. Maybe I’m also not listening to the right material either. Couple of low bass Blu-ray’s such as Hacksaw Ridge, polar express, Overlord.
70' works great for Yamaha AVR's, several members in this thread (including myself) find it's perfect. (YMMV)

To test it, load up a movie with a club scene with electronic dance music (low frequency, steady beat)

...adjust your distance on your sub-out (that feeds your crownson amp) until the bass hits from your crowsons align with your subs.


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post #2463 of 2496 Old 10-28-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
Oh yeah the 3040 has two separate sub outputs. Maybe I’️m not sensitive enough to sight-feel but in my experimenting I can’️t tell that they are off. I know some guys are changing the distance to 70ft and I haven’️t tried that yet. Maybe I’️m also not listening to the right material either. Couple of low bass Blu-ray’️s such as Hacksaw Ridge, polar express, Overlord.
70' works great for Yamaha AVR's, several members in this thread (including myself) find it's perfect. (YMMV)

To test it, load up a movie with a club scene with electronic dance music (low frequency, steady beat)

...adjust your distance on your sub-out (that feeds your crownson amp) until the bass hits from your crowsons align with your subs.

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Will try. Thank you.
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post #2464 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 08:42 AM
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Where I am seated. If I sit in the center it has the best impact there easily. The MA's are always at the corner, its the only way it would work. I mean that the wood frame at eachcorner is solid enough to cover the MA if I were to completely cover the MA with the couch.
Performance is way better with 3. I notice way more nuance now. Thanks!

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post #2465 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 03:09 PM
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I posted this over in the Behringer thread, I'm going to post here too bc I'm not sure where in the pathway I'm having the problem. I hoping someone here has a similar setup of AVR>minidsp>Behringer>Crowson. I'm running my two LFE outs from my Denon X4300H AVR into a minidsp 2x4 HD. Those two LFE outs go to the two inputs on the minidsp. From there, one LFE input signal is routed to two SVS subs and the other input is going to the Behringer amp (using a Monoprice RCA to XLR cable). The software for the minidsp shows that a signal is present at both inputs (LFE outs from my AVR) and the subwoofers sound great. However there is nothing happening at the Behringer amp. Should I be seeing a signal light if there is a signal? Are there any settings on the Behringer that I need to enable for it to see the LFE signal? The Behringer documentation is not great for a beginner like me trying to understand filters and crossovers. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2466 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 03:22 PM
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These are as good as they say. Expensive but a really nice upgrade. I am still experimenting with them but I’m pretty happy. I have the Crowson amp set to 20-22 anything more than that is too much for me. I know absorbers have been discussed many times and I ordered these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1, they seem to work fine but I never tried the others that people discuss.
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post #2467 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 04:02 PM
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I posted this over in the Behringer thread, I'm going to post here too bc I'm not sure where in the pathway I'm having the problem. I hoping someone here has a similar setup of AVR>minidsp>Behringer>Crowson. I'm running my two LFE outs from my Denon X4300H AVR into a minidsp 2x4 HD. Those two LFE outs go to the two inputs on the minidsp. From there, one LFE input signal is routed to two SVS subs and the other input is going to the Behringer amp (using a Monoprice RCA to XLR cable). The software for the minidsp shows that a signal is present at both inputs (LFE outs from my AVR) and the subwoofers sound great. However there is nothing happening at the Behringer amp. Should I be seeing a signal light if there is a signal? Are there any settings on the Behringer that I need to enable for it to see the LFE signal? The Behringer documentation is not great for a beginner like me trying to understand filters and crossovers. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Are you using Audyssey? I ask because Audyssey will not activate the second sub out unless there is an actual sub connected to it.

If you have Audyssey turned off and both subs are set to YES, then I'm not sure what is going on.
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post #2468 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 04:05 PM
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These are as good as they say. Expensive but a really nice upgrade. I am still experimenting with them but I’m pretty happy. I have the Crowson amp set to 20-22 anything more than that is too much for me. I know absorbers have been discussed many times and I ordered these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1, they seem to work fine but I never tried the others that people discuss.
You don't want "Anti Vibration" pads, you want something that is "pro-vibration".

These isolators have gained popularity over in the BOSS thread, but I can testify that they work great with Crowsons as well...as long as you have a flat surface to stick them to (can be mounted upside down if needed).

https://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Sili...rum-convert-20
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post #2469 of 2496 Old 10-29-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You don't want "Anti Vibration" pads, you want something that is "pro-vibration".

These isolators have gained popularity over in the BOSS thread, but I can testify that they work great with Crowsons as well...as long as you have a flat surface to stick them to (can be mounted upside down if needed).

https://www.amazon.com/Platinum-Sili...rum-convert-20
Awesome thanks. So what would be the benefit of these over the ones I purchased. More feel at lower intensity on the amp?

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post #2470 of 2496 Old 10-30-2019, 05:22 PM
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i have Ht Market curved row of three chairs. The right chair is a full chair and the center and left are without the middle wedge if that makes sense. Using two Crowsons on the full chair is great no problem. On the other two chairs I get very little feel on the side without an armrest. My plan was to use two for the full and center chair but on the center 1 is enough. The other doesn’t do much. So with that extra Crowson I’ll use it on the other end seat that I planned on not having any on. Maybe that is why they recommend to put the crowsons under or near each arm rest.
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post #2471 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 10:32 AM
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Awesome thanks. So what would be the benefit of these over the ones I purchased. More feel at lower intensity on the amp?
At any intensity.

The more "squishy" your isolators are, the more the MAs are able to shake the seating, resulting in more wobble in the single digits.


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i have Ht Market curved row of three chairs. The right chair is a full chair and the center and left are without the middle wedge if that makes sense. Using two Crowsons on the full chair is great no problem. On the other two chairs I get very little feel on the side without an armrest. My plan was to use two for the full and center chair but on the center 1 is enough. The other doesn’t do much. So with that extra Crowson I’ll use it on the other end seat that I planned on not having any on. Maybe that is why they recommend to put the crowsons under or near each arm rest.
A lot of folks in your situation have built a plywood or MDF base that goes under all of the seats. When all the seats are tied together, you can get away with less MAs and distribute the shaking much more evenly. Usually the base can be completely hidden under the seating, or wrapped with fabric/carpet to match.
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post #2472 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 10:42 AM
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At any intensity.

The more "squishy" your isolators are, the more the MAs are able to shake the seating, resulting in more wobble in the single digits.




A lot of folks in your situation have built a plywood or MDF base that goes under all of the seats. When all the seats are tied together, you can get away with less MAs and distribute the shaking much more evenly. Usually the base can be completely hidden under the seating, or wrapped with fabric/carpet to match.
Again, much appreciated.
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post #2473 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 12:13 PM
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dumb question but for those of you with AVR dual sub outs, dual subs, and mini dsp 2x4hd do you route LFE 1 and LFE 2 to the out that has the crowson amp or just one of the LFEs? I assume its one and the same since the same filter should be getting passed to both LFE outs?

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post #2474 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 12:22 PM
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Yamaha RX-A3070, 2 Sub outs > miniDSP 2x4HD > 4 Sub outs...




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post #2475 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 12:28 PM
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Yamaha RX-A3070, 2 Sub outs > miniDSP 2x4HD > 4 Sub outs...



Ok output 4 (aka crowson amp) only needs to get one AVR sub out then. Thanks!

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post #2476 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 12:34 PM
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Ok output 4 (aka crowson amp) only needs to get one AVR sub out then. Thanks!
My AVR is set so Sub channels are Mono x2 output (IOW, not configured as Left/Right or Front/Rear)
I removed all EQ from Sub-2 (in the AVR) and added 70' to the distance (more negative delay)
...that's what feeds my Crowson D-501 amp.

I've also added a 30Hz crossover in the miniDSP for my Channel 4 output
(Crowson amp lowest setting is limited to 40Hz)

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dumb question but for those of you with AVR dual sub outs, dual subs, and mini dsp 2x4hd do you route LFE 1 and LFE 2 to the out that has the crowson amp or just one of the LFEs? I assume its one and the same since the same filter should be getting passed to both LFE outs?
The problem comes if you are using Audyssey on your subs. The EQ filters that Audyssey sets for your subs will be output on both sub outs, but you want the Crowsons to get as flat a signal as possible.

Two options;
1) Don't use Audyssey on the subs and EQ them with the MiniDSP (easier)
2) Reverse engineer the Audyssey EQ on the DSP output feeding the MAs (more difficult)
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The problem comes if you are using Audyssey on your subs. The EQ filters that Audyssey sets for your subs will be output on both sub outs, but you want the Crowsons to get as flat a signal as possible.

Two options;
1) Don't use Audyssey on the subs and EQ them with the MiniDSP (easier)
2) Reverse engineer the Audyssey EQ on the DSP output feeding the MAs (more difficult)
Yeah I've always gone with 2. I think I have it close enough but it could probably be better. I assume you use REW to validate your mini-dsp EQ?

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post #2479 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 02:38 PM
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Yeah I've always gone with 2. I think I have it close enough but it could probably be better. I assume you use REW to validate your mini-dsp EQ?
Yup. Do you not have REW up and running yet? If not, you really should...
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Yup. Do you not have REW up and running yet? If not, you really should...
I should too for the Crowson. Unfortunately I have an Anthem so can't disable arc on one sub output. I need to read that guide in your sig. Figure it out.
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Yup. Do you not have REW up and running yet? If not, you really should...
I have it available to run, used it to place my subs and also get a rough idea of when I'm running out of headroom.

Just have to drag my wife's desktop downstairs (bc its way lighter then mine and also preferably when she isn't at home to yell at me when she sees me smash and grabbing her pc). Don't think I can justify buying a cheap laptop just to run REW.

I'll try it out one of these days.

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I have ordered a umik-1...

I take it, at a high-level, you could just use it for the subwoofer output correction, so I just use it to creat output filters for the miniDSP to subs, and leave the Crowson minidsp output untouched? So on anthem arc I disable the correction on the sub, load it to the Anthem, then run REW for the sub and load it to the miniDSP?
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post #2483 of 2496 Old 10-31-2019, 03:12 PM
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Don't think I can justify buying a cheap laptop just to run REW.
Not embarrassed to say that I did.

Just ran across this one today. Can't beat $129!

>LINK DELETED<


EDIT:
Also available for the same price at Walmart, which is probably safer than that other link I posted:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lenovo-14...W10P/163690083
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Not embarrassed to say that I did.

Just ran across this one today. Can't beat $129!

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops...filiate:bv0as6
That's pretty darn close to what I have, (15") and it never leaves the seat beside my MLP
Works great for surfing AVS, REW, BEQ (and ordering UHD's online) All Four HT essentials

@Matt Fowler ... Anyone with Crowson's and a MiniDSP 2x4HD is SEVERELY missing out if you are not also using BEQ!!! (free!)

>>>> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56610134
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That's pretty darn close to what I have, (15") and it never leaves the seat beside my MLP
Works great for surfing AVS, REW, BEQ (and ordering UHD's online) All Four HT essentials

@Matt Fowler ... Anyone with Crowson's and a MiniDSP 2x4HD is SEVERELY missing out if you are not also using BEQ!!! (free!)

>>>> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56610134
I've been using BEQ but only for the subs. I just have some stock low shelves on the crowsons below 25hz that boost 10-15db below that range and it gets things wobbling, I figure its reversing audyssey and giving some boost on top. Not as precise I know, but I'd need to saddle up with REW and eq the subs flat sans Audyssey.

Alan I know you said you go without Audyssey these days, what is your FR on your LCR and surrounds/atmos? I have probably 95 percent +/- 5db on my LCR but definitely need EQ on my surrounds since I have a 6500+ cu ft room and the surrounds don't have nearly the acoustic treatment (all GIK) that the front has. Need eq for my atmos speakers too I think.
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post #2486 of 2496 Old 11-01-2019, 10:02 AM
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Alan I know you said you go without Audyssey these days, what is your FR on your LCR and surrounds/atmos? I have probably 95 percent +/- 5db on my LCR but definitely need EQ on my surrounds since I have a 6500+ cu ft room and the surrounds don't have nearly the acoustic treatment (all GIK) that the front has. Need eq for my atmos speakers too I think.
No Atmos yet. I have not measured my surrounds since I started running without Audyssey (they sound fine to me), and rarely measure the FL/FR (since I know their response is very close to CC). Here is a recent CC+subs measurement:





Just last night I was messing around with turning filters on/off in the MiniDSP and to my surprise the response below actually sounds better to my ears than the much flatter/smoother response above. This is using only a single filter in the Mini (versus 4). I seem to really love that big 30hz peak in my room, it really gets things shaking.

Still need to do a lot more listening. Only had time for a few demo clips and songs last night.

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post #2487 of 2496 Old 11-01-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
No Atmos yet. I have not measured my surrounds since I started running without Audyssey (they sound fine to me), and rarely measure the FL/FR (since I know their response is very close to CC). Here is a recent CC+subs measurement:





Just last night I was messing around with turning filters on/off in the MiniDSP and to my surprise the response below actually sounds better to my ears than the much flatter/smoother response above. This is using only a single filter in the Mini (versus 4). I seem to really love that big 30hz peak in my room, it really gets things shaking.

Still need to do a lot more listening. Only had time for a few demo clips and songs last night.

Nice! Glad I could send you back into the rabbit hole.
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TCL 65R615/Denon X4400H/EMOTIVA A-300/CHANE 2.4A LRC/HSU HB1-MK2 Surrounds/CHANE 1.4 Rear Surrounds/4x RSL C34E Atmos/2x SVS PB3000/GIK Accoustics 8 244s 4 tri traps/2x Crowson MAs
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post #2488 of 2496 Old 11-01-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
I've been using BEQ but only for the subs.
If you're BEQing subs only and you have MAs, you are seriously sitting on a goldmine! Awaken the sleeping giant beneath you! BEQ is like MA food.
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Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

Last edited by aron7awol; 11-01-2019 at 04:31 PM.
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post #2489 of 2496 Old 11-05-2019, 07:48 AM
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If you're BEQing subs only and you have MAs, you are seriously sitting on a goldmine! Awaken the sleeping giant beneath you! BEQ is like MA food.
Yeah a matter of laziness, I have a Denon so I'd have to undo my Audyssey EQ in mini dsp and then combine those filters with the bass eq filters and hope they don't clip my amp. Already put a heavy low shelf on the crowsons below 20hz just as a default.

The alternate would be eq'ing my subs myself with the mini dsp/REW which is some work and I probably wouldn't eq it as well as Audyssey does. I'll get to it one of these days. Super annoying you can't have one of your LFE outs EQ neutered with Denon. Seems like it would be an easy thing to do software wise.
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TCL 65R615/Denon X4400H/EMOTIVA A-300/CHANE 2.4A LRC/HSU HB1-MK2 Surrounds/CHANE 1.4 Rear Surrounds/4x RSL C34E Atmos/2x SVS PB3000/GIK Accoustics 8 244s 4 tri traps/2x Crowson MAs
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post #2490 of 2496 Old 11-05-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Yeah a matter of laziness, I have a Denon so I'd have to undo my Audyssey EQ in mini dsp and then combine those filters with the bass eq filters and hope they don't clip my amp. Already put a heavy low shelf on the crowsons below 20hz just as a default.

The alternate would be eq'ing my subs myself with the mini dsp/REW which is some work and I probably wouldn't eq it as well as Audyssey does. I'll get to it one of these days. Super annoying you can't have one of your LFE outs EQ neutered with Denon. Seems like it would be an easy thing to do software wise.
Yes, this day and age it just boggles my mind what an uphill battle Crowson has these days with so much short sightedness in all corners. I've an anthem, and aside from the fact you don't have separate control for each sub output, in ARC you can't even directly bypass EQ for subwoofers. The best I could figure is adjusting the min adjustment frequency to 250Hz. I've a mike on order and will be doing my own EQ for the subs/crowson, but it is annoying that you don't have any control.

And on the other side or their uphill battle is the CONSTANT neutering of sub 20Hz LFE these days. Unless you are heavily into BEQ, 90% of movies would give bearly anything out of a crowson.
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