The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 84 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2491 of 2606 Old 11-05-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Yeah a matter of laziness, I have a Denon so I'd have to undo my Audyssey EQ in mini dsp and then combine those filters with the bass eq filters and hope they don't clip my amp. Already put a heavy low shelf on the crowsons below 20hz just as a default.

The alternate would be eq'ing my subs myself with the mini dsp/REW which is some work and I probably wouldn't eq it as well as Audyssey does. I'll get to it one of these days. Super annoying you can't have one of your LFE outs EQ neutered with Denon. Seems like it would be an easy thing to do software wise.
Yes, this day and age it just boggles my mind what an uphill battle Crowson has these days with so much short sightedness in all corners. I've an anthem, and aside from the fact you don't have separate control for each sub output, in ARC you can't even directly bypass EQ for subwoofers. The best I could figure is adjusting the min adjustment frequency to 250Hz. I've a mike on order and will be doing my own EQ for the subs/crowson, but it is annoying that you don't have any control.

And on the other side or their uphill battle is the CONSTANT neutering of sub 20Hz LFE these days. Unless you are heavily into BEQ, 90% of movies would give bearly anything out of a crowson.
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post #2492 of 2606 Old 11-05-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
The alternate would be eq'ing my subs myself with the mini dsp/REW which is some work and I probably wouldn't eq it as well as Audyssey does.
Nope. You could actually EQ them better.
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post #2493 of 2606 Old 11-05-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Yeah a matter of laziness, I have a Denon so I'd have to undo my Audyssey EQ in mini dsp and then combine those filters with the bass eq filters and hope they don't clip my amp. Already put a heavy low shelf on the crowsons below 20hz just as a default.

The alternate would be eq'ing my subs myself with the mini dsp/REW which is some work and I probably wouldn't eq it as well as Audyssey does. I'll get to it one of these days. Super annoying you can't have one of your LFE outs EQ neutered with Denon. Seems like it would be an easy thing to do software wise.
I'm not sure what the Audy filters have to do with using BEQ or not? If you haven't undone the Audy filters on your MAs now, then the signal to them isn't flat now either. While a flat signal is obviously preferred before applying BEQ, you can still use BEQ with how you have it set up now.
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post #2494 of 2606 Old 11-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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Besides the Oppo Blu-ray players how do you guys connect the Crowsons to a sub out line. Right now I’m just doing it through my receiver but any volume increase or decrease will impact the Crowsons intensity. I couldn’t find any new players with sub out.
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post #2495 of 2606 Old 11-10-2019, 02:38 PM
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Besides the Oppo Blu-ray players how do you guys connect the Crowsons to a sub out line. Right now I’m just doing it through my receiver but any volume increase or decrease will impact the Crowsons intensity. I couldn’t find any new players with sub out.
I think most people want the level of the MAs to change with the MV. I know I do.
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post #2496 of 2606 Old 11-17-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
At any intensity.

The more "squishy" your isolators are, the more the MAs are able to shake the seating, resulting in more wobble in the single digits.




A lot of folks in your situation have built a plywood or MDF base that goes under all of the seats. When all the seats are tied together, you can get away with less MAs and distribute the shaking much more evenly. Usually the base can be completely hidden under the seating, or wrapped with fabric/carpet to match.
Thanks for recommending these they work great. Definitely more feel I made need to turn my amp down.
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post #2497 of 2606 Old 11-19-2019, 07:26 AM
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I'm not sure what the Audy filters have to do with using BEQ or not? If you haven't undone the Audy filters on your MAs now, then the signal to them isn't flat now either. While a flat signal is obviously preferred before applying BEQ, you can still use BEQ with how you have it set up now.
Well I took your advice, redid all my BEQ filters on the inputs of the MiniDSP instead of the outputs. I did a single PEQ to bring back 8db of room gain Audyssey is cutting at 25hz on the crowson out. That should get it close enough to flat for the frequencies that matter. All configs get that tweak.

Thats all on config 1. Then config 2 is mild house curve, config 3 is major house curve, and config 4 is flat.

And you are right obviously that I needed to BEQ the crowsons, before I was skipping the filters below my 2 PB3000s tune point of 16hz, things are greatly improved making sure the crowsons get the BEQ as well (via input EQ is the key, less duplicated work), they sync with whats on screen/what I hear much better. Fantastic stuff.

Thanks for all your help!
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post #2498 of 2606 Old 12-28-2019, 03:58 PM
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Hello, I’m trying to control the d501 amp with my universal remote program (Simple Control). Unfortunately Simple Control doesn’t have the codes in their system. I thought I read that some of you were having issues with different remotes accidentally changing the Crowsons settings. If so what device and what buttons impact the Crowson also?
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post #2499 of 2606 Old 12-28-2019, 07:11 PM
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Was going to pull the trigger on ordering Crowson's tonight, but it seems their website doesn't have a valid security certificate and is insecure. Their certificate expired in 2015. Is this a known issue? Has everyone just been ordering over the phone for the last 4 years or just sending them credit card information over an unsecured connection?

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post #2500 of 2606 Old 12-29-2019, 01:29 PM
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^^^ @Bluecow003 – yes just call to order, that way you can get the 10% AVSforum discount as well
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post #2501 of 2606 Old 12-29-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
^^^ @Bluecow003 – yes just call to order, that way you can get the 10% AVSforum discount as well

Is there really a discount?

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post #2502 of 2606 Old 12-29-2019, 06:22 PM
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Is there really a discount?

Yes.

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post #2503 of 2606 Old 12-29-2019, 06:24 PM
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^^ Well, if you tell him your an AVSforum member, he gives a 10% discount from what ever he has them listed at on his web site. They have gone up in price not to long ago, but should still apply to the price listed. They are not cheap, so every little bit off helps. VERY worth the price though IMO!! Crowsons are AWESOME!!!
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post #2504 of 2606 Old 01-04-2020, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
Hello, I’m trying to control the d501 amp with my universal remote program (Simple Control). Unfortunately Simple Control doesn’t have the codes in their system. I thought I read that some of you were having issues with different remotes accidentally changing the Crowsons settings. If so what device and what buttons impact the Crowson also?

I use a Harmony, but my Denon and oppo remotes did the same thing. Here are copies of all the posts that I could find:

post #720 by Hakka:
I'm seeing some strange behavior with my D501 and Harmony Elite remote. The D501 responds to a lot of signals for other devices eg Marantz 7702mk2 and Oppo 103 when sent from the Elite (all commands reduce the volume on the D501), however it does not respond to the same commands sent from the individual remote units.
When I had a Denon AVR it would respond to the Menu command using all 4 remote ID settings (4 different IR code sets) sent from the denon remote.
I think I'll have to cover the IR sensor on the D501 and start using the Oppo to tweak the volume.
Anyone else seeing the same thing?

Post #766 by me:
Yep, me too. I finished setting mine up late yesterday (busy weekend) so I didn't get much time to play with it. I was trying to ballpark the level on the Crowson, but it was jumping all over the place. Then I figured out that my Harmony One was messing with it. As I dial it in this week, with the IR sensor covered, I'll adjust the Crowson manually. I set the MV to the same spot so I don't foresee a need to adjust the Crowson, but if over time I feel a need to do it for some movies then I may use the oppo.

Post #893 by atabea:
.... BTW, is there anything I can do about the 203 remote causing the crowson amp to either go all the way to maximum or all the way to zero every time I use it? That is sooooo vexing.

Post #894 by me:
I took a black business card and blacked out the lettering, images, etc., with a marker and placed it in front of the IR sensor. I then got a repeater and plugged it into to the IR control input on the back. The repeater receiver I placed on the right side of the Crowson D-501 amp, between it and the side of the audio cabinet. My audio cabinet is on the left so the repeater is blocked from the remote. To make adjustments on the D-501 I move to the left side of the couch and reach out to the left with the remote so it’ll get to the repeater. I don’t use the oppo 203 for music, just movies. My 103D is for music, so I don’t need to adjust the D-105 for anything.

Post #1355 by aron7awol:
Note: The IR on the D-501 seems to use the same codes as Denon receivers, so when I change the volume on my Denon, the D-501 also gets changed. I ended up covering the IR receiver on my D-501 because of this.

Post #1356 by Rengozu:
Ahh, ok. I use Marantz so hopefully there's no problem there for me, but I know the headaches of similar codes too well. My LED lighting used the same codes as my Oppo, so for every button press on the Oppo remote the color in the room changed. Even changing the Oppo remote configuration to another of the 3 or 4 options it just remixed them all around.

Post #1357 by H Stevens:
I had the same issue with my Yamaha as well, unfortunately I didn't catch it and my chair felt like I was sitting on a 1947 Farmall tractor.

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post #2505 of 2606 Old 01-04-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
I use a Harmony, but my Denon and oppo remotes did the same thing. Here are copies of all the posts that I could find:

post #720 by Hakka:
I'm seeing some strange behavior with my D501 and Harmony Elite remote. The D501 responds to a lot of signals for other devices eg Marantz 7702mk2 and Oppo 103 when sent from the Elite (all commands reduce the volume on the D501), however it does not respond to the same commands sent from the individual remote units.
When I had a Denon AVR it would respond to the Menu command using all 4 remote ID settings (4 different IR code sets) sent from the denon remote.
I think I'll have to cover the IR sensor on the D501 and start using the Oppo to tweak the volume.
Anyone else seeing the same thing?

Post #766 by me:
Yep, me too. I finished setting mine up late yesterday (busy weekend) so I didn't get much time to play with it. I was trying to ballpark the level on the Crowson, but it was jumping all over the place. Then I figured out that my Harmony One was messing with it. As I dial it in this week, with the IR sensor covered, I'll adjust the Crowson manually. I set the MV to the same spot so I don't foresee a need to adjust the Crowson, but if over time I feel a need to do it for some movies then I may use the oppo.

Post #893 by atabea:
.... BTW, is there anything I can do about the 203 remote causing the crowson amp to either go all the way to maximum or all the way to zero every time I use it? That is sooooo vexing.

Post #894 by me:
I took a black business card and blacked out the lettering, images, etc., with a marker and placed it in front of the IR sensor. I then got a repeater and plugged it into to the IR control input on the back. The repeater receiver I placed on the right side of the Crowson D-501 amp, between it and the side of the audio cabinet. My audio cabinet is on the left so the repeater is blocked from the remote. To make adjustments on the D-501 I move to the left side of the couch and reach out to the left with the remote so it’ll get to the repeater. I don’t use the oppo 203 for music, just movies. My 103D is for music, so I don’t need to adjust the D-105 for anything.

Post #1355 by aron7awol:
Note: The IR on the D-501 seems to use the same codes as Denon receivers, so when I change the volume on my Denon, the D-501 also gets changed. I ended up covering the IR receiver on my D-501 because of this.

Post #1356 by Rengozu:
Ahh, ok. I use Marantz so hopefully there's no problem there for me, but I know the headaches of similar codes too well. My LED lighting used the same codes as my Oppo, so for every button press on the Oppo remote the color in the room changed. Even changing the Oppo remote configuration to another of the 3 or 4 options it just remixed them all around.

Post #1357 by H Stevens:
I had the same issue with my Yamaha as well, unfortunately I didn't catch it and my chair felt like I was sitting on a 1947 Farmall tractor.
Thank you. I very much appreciate it.
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post #2506 of 2606 Old 01-04-2020, 08:38 PM
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Yep, my prepro remote as well as apple tv remove if its pointed at the crowson amp location it does change the volume up and down. Now I've moved the crowson amp on other end of the rack and not point any remotes at it has worked out good so far.
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post #2507 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 01:00 PM
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I just played a 10hz tone off youtube and didn't get any TR through the crowsons. I could see LFE was getting the signal because the subs were wobbling like crazy. Any ideas what could be wrong? I was able to get TR from 12hz and 14hz test tones.

Do the crowsons require more amp juice the lower you go in frequency or is it a completely different from the paradigm that subwoofer amps have to work harder the lower they go?

My amp is a refurbished C-602 that I purchased from Crowson direct.

http://crowsontech.com/go/crowsontec...opDefault.aspx

I went that avenue because the newer amp was too expensive.

Any ideas? I thought we could get output down to 5hz with these things.

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post #2508 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
I just played a 10hz tone off youtube and didn't get any TR through the crowsons. I could see LFE was getting the signal because the subs were wobbling like crazy. Any ideas what could be wrong? I was able to get TR from 12hz and 14hz test tones.

Do the crowsons require more amp juice the lower you go in frequency or is it a completely different from the paradigm that subwoofer amps have to work harder the lower they go?

My amp is a refurbished C-602 that I purchased from Crowson direct.

http://crowsontech.com/go/crowsontec...opDefault.aspx

I went that avenue because the newer amp was too expensive.

Any ideas? I thought we could get output down to 5hz with these things.
What is the signal source on the AVR? Sounds like a high pass filter is on it, and it isn't a subwoofer output. If you put the Crowsons amp on auto, does it detect a signal? Eg switch on?
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post #2509 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 01:22 PM
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What is the signal source on the AVR? Sounds like a high pass filter is on it, and it isn't a subwoofer output. If you put the Crowsons amp on auto, does it detect a signal? Eg switch on?
Yeah it was definitely on because I had been playing other test tones before that, at high volume too. Theres def no high pass filter in the AVR or in my mini dsp. I don't even think you can set a HPF in Denon AVRs on LFE.

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post #2510 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
What is the signal source on the AVR? Sounds like a high pass filter is on it, and it isn't a subwoofer output. If you put the Crowsons amp on auto, does it detect a signal? Eg switch on?
Ohhh I bet its Audyssey at work. My subs extend down to 14hz in room so the receiver most likely started implementing a steep rolloff at 14hz. Argh, and the Audyssey app only lets me filter EQ down to 20hz. So I would probably have to not run Audyssey at all and EQ my subs. I get an excellent EQ result through room correction...sighhh.

This might be the final step to lead me to not use Audyssey at all and try my hand at manual sub EQ. Luckily I don't really have to use Audyssey on my mains due to room treatments and good speakers.

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post #2511 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Ohhh I bet its Audyssey at work. My subs extend down to 14hz in room so the receiver most likely started implementing a steep rolloff at 14hz. Argh, and the Audyssey app only lets me filter EQ down to 20hz. So I would probably have to not run Audyssey at all and EQ my subs. I get an excellent EQ result through room correction...sighhh.

This might be the final step to lead me to not use Audyssey at all and try my hand at manual sub EQ. Luckily I don't really have to use Audyssey on my mains due to room treatments and good speakers.
Hmm. Can you check the curve audessy applies to the sub? Of can you JUST bypass audessy on the sub?

I run an anthem, and with ARC, I actually look at the curve it detects, and set the minimum correction frequency for the subwoofer to 40Hz so it does nothing below 40 Hz on the sub output. Ideally it'd be good to have multiple subwoofer outs with separate correction and just bypass it for the Crowson output.
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post #2512 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Hmm. Can you check the curve audessy applies to the sub? Of can you JUST bypass audessy on the sub?

I run an anthem, and with ARC, I actually look at the curve it detects, and set the minimum correction frequency for the subwoofer to 40Hz so it does nothing below 40 Hz on the sub output. Ideally it'd be good to have multiple subwoofer outs with separate correction and just bypass it for the Crowson output.
I know audyssey applies a steep xover at the -3db point, this has to be what is happening. Unfortunately I can only set a low pass correction frequency and furthermore its limited to 20hz.

The only way I am going to be able to pull this off is digging in dip, turning off Audyssey, and doing sub EQ with the mini dsp. Luckily I should be able to use distances and trims set by audyssey on my speakers.

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post #2513 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 02:15 PM
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AFAIK, Audyssey does not apply any sort of "crossover" (LPF nor HPF) at the -3dB point, it just stops applying EQ correction. I don't think it's Audyssey causing your particular issue....
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post #2514 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
AFAIK, Audyssey does not apply any sort of "crossover" (LPF nor HPF) at the -3dB point, it just stops applying EQ correction. I don't think it's Audyssey causing your particular issue....
Do we know if more amp power is required on the crowson the lower in frequency you go? IE maybe my 200w rms crowson amp is underpowered for sub 12hz?

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post #2515 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Do we know if more amp power is required on the crowson the lower in frequency you go? IE maybe my 200w rms crowson amp is underpowered for sub 12hz?
Any amp will require more power the lower you go, but I would assume the Crowson amp would be able to handle the Crowson MAs, right? I'm using a Behringer, so don't really know.
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post #2516 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Any amp will require more power the lower you go, but I would assume the Crowson amp would be able to handle the Crowson MAs, right? I'm using a Behringer, so don't really know.
It is an older amp 200w rms at 400 peak , compared to the 501 which is 500w rms and 700 peak. I really don't know.

I'm just wondering if because the crowsons are physical rather then audible that maybe the amp expenditure is less for the crowsons at 10hz then it would be for a sub trying to pressurize a room. Why is 10hz TR harder on an amp then 20 when its just doing a physical motion?

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post #2517 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:20 PM
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@Matt Fowler - I would think one of three things are happening.

1. Audyssey …but I agree with Alan, that’s probably not it. But turn Audy off and see what happens when playing that 10hz tone for a totally untouched signal to the MAs.

2. There is some sort of HPF/low cutoff set in the miniDSP or Amp not allowing 10hz to be fed a strong enough signal to produce any TR movement from the MAs. Not familiar though with that amp and its settings for this, plus you said that no HPF is set in the miniDSP. Double check to make sure and didn’t get set to on in the crossover section.

3. This may or may not be the case, BUT if you were really pushing the MAs at high levels for very long with those tones, they may have got too hot and went into protect mode and completely shut down for a while by the time you played that 10hz tone. Don’t ask me how I know this LOL. This was a long time ago and I try not to go that far these days with tones if and when I use them.

Yep, the MAs should give you movement all the way down to 1hz, especially if your amp will allow it with not too much rolloff.

Check all of that. Hope this helps because 10hz and below are one of the best things about Crowsons
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post #2518 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
It is an older amp 200w rms at 400 peak , compared to the 501 which is 500w rms and 700 peak. I really don't know.

I'm just wondering if because the crowsons are physical rather then audible that maybe the amp expenditure is less for the crowsons at 10hz then it would be for a sub trying to pressurize a room. Why is 10hz TR harder on an amp then 20 when its just doing a physical motion?
The very short answer, any TT work on the same principle as a sub woofer driver.
The lower you go in frequency, the more power it require.


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post #2519 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:28 PM
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How specifically do you have it all connected? What is going to what? Both on the AVR side and the crowson amp to the crowsons? And as I was asking before what is the amp showing? If on auto, is it staying in standby / Amber LED? Or do you see it go to active (blue) which it does when it detects a signal to it. If it stays red it means it isn't getting a signal

What is the level set to on the Crowson amp, the volume? The default 30?

Do you have two actuators connected to each amp output, like the manual? Or are you trying to run one off of each croswon amp output? (I'm not even sure that works as impedance wrong)

How is the avr output connected to the amp? Do you have it connected to the crowson amp OUTPUT. If it is the subwoofer feed, connect it to the Red terminal, the second one across, not the one closest to the edge.

Did you check out the manual? http://crowsontech.com/_CrowsonTech/...ners_Guide.pdf
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post #2520 of 2606 Old 01-08-2020, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
It is an older amp 200w rms at 400 peak , compared to the 501 which is 500w rms and 700 peak. I really don't know.
Ahhh, I didn't catch that it was an older amp. Maybe it doesn't go as low. You could try calling Randolph, he would know for sure.


Quote:
I'm just wondering if because the crowsons are physical rather then audible that maybe the amp expenditure is less for the crowsons at 10hz then it would be for a sub trying to pressurize a room. Why is 10hz TR harder on an amp then 20 when its just doing a physical motion?
Well, subwoofers are also just "physical motion". I guess I'm not actually sure, another question for Randolph!
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