The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 2728 Old 03-30-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
I tried playing at volume 24 ended up with clanking sound in actuators for some specific scenes, MV was at -15DB, Sub Channel Level = -8db.
That likely means the amp is clipping. You might want to remove the extra LS and just run the 10Hz LPF 6dB/oct only.

Edit: I just added some additional details to the TR Curves post with recommendations for the D-501 amp.
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post #2612 of 2728 Old 03-30-2020, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
The negative delay used on the minidsp was to address tactile feel before or after the audible bass?
The "negative delay" created by increasing sub distance in the AVR and then adding delay back to the subs but not the MAs in the mDSP, if that's what you are referring to, is to correct a situation where the tactile hits feel like they are behind/after the audible bass hits, typically only noticeable with certain music.
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post #2613 of 2728 Old 03-30-2020, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
The "negative delay" created by increasing sub distance in the AVR and then adding delay back to the subs but not the MAs in the mDSP, if that's what you are referring to, is to correct a situation where the tactile hits feel like they are behind/after the audible bass hits, typically only noticeable with certain music.
Yea that's what I was referring to. I couldn't find the discussion on it. Was "negative delay" the correct terminology? I'm pretty sure I'm experiencing the same thing that was discussed.

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post #2614 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
Yea that's what I was referring to. I couldn't find the discussion on it. Was "negative delay" the correct terminology? I'm pretty sure I'm experiencing the same thing that was discussed.
Okay, so yeah, to create that "negative delay", you can increase the distance in your AVR for the sub out that goes to your MAs, and then if that sub out is shared with subs just add the equivalent delay back to the sub output in the mDSP.

More detailed explanation:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57603010
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post #2615 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
That likely means the amp is clipping. You might want to remove the extra LS and just run the 10Hz LPF 6dB/oct only.

Edit: I just added some additional details to the TR Curves post with recommendations for the D-501 amp.
Hey Aron,

Is the D-501 really worth the $$, or would you go with something else?

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post #2616 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
Hey Aron,

Is the D-501 really worth the $$, or would you go with something else?
Personally, I love the NX3000/NX6000 for the money, as long as the fan noise is acceptable and/or the buyer is willing to replace the fan(s).
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post #2617 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 10:58 AM
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The D-501 frequency response is down to 5Hz the Behringer NX3000 and 6000 are rated down to 20 Hz, the actuators themselves are rated down to 1 Hz.
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post #2618 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
That likely means the amp is clipping. You might want to remove the extra LS and just run the 10Hz LPF 6dB/oct only.

Edit: I just added some additional details to the TR Curves post with recommendations for the D-501 amp.
Thank you. If you need me to do any testing let me know. I have removed the LS for now.

Also my receiver Onkyo TX-RZ 3100 states that I run the subs 4.5db lower when using dual subs, currently I have both sub outs at -8db.


Edit: Forgot to ADD
For the D-501 AMP, The mode is set to Movie Mode(Movie mode has a 6db boost over Music)
http ://crowsontech.com/_CrowsonTech/Documents/D-501_Owners_Guide.pdf

I have connected a Y spliter from MiniDSP HD to D-501 (Followed Pios setup)
I think the clipping may be due to the movie mode? not sure. For now I will watch without the LS.



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post #2619 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
Thank you. If you need me to do any testing let me know. I have removed the LS for now.

Also my receiver Onkyo TX-RZ 3100 states that I run the subs 4.5db lower when using dual subs, currently I have both sub outs at -8db.
You can ignore that recommendation. They are probably just trying to roughly account for the SPL increase from adding a second sub, but that doesn't apply here.

That being said, going from -8 to -11 sub trim is fine, you'll just have to increase gain on your D-501 to make up for it. Or just stick with -8 if you already found the approximate level you like at 23/24 on the D-501 with that sub trim and this curve. It's up to you, you should be fine either way, really.
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post #2620 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
You can ignore that recommendation. They are probably just trying to roughly account for the SPL increase from adding a second sub, but that doesn't apply here.

That being said, going from -8 to -11 sub trim is fine, you'll just have to increase gain on your D-501 to make up for it. Or just stick with -8 if you already found the approximate level you like at 23/24 on the D-501 with that sub trim and this curve. It's up to you, you should be fine either way, really.
Thank you: I did update my post thinking you will reply later! anyway below is what I added:
Edit: Forgot to ADD
For the D-501 AMP, The mode is set to Movie Mode(Movie mode has a 6db boost over Music)
http ://crowsontech.com/_CrowsonTech/Documents/D-501_Owners_Guide.pdf

I have connected a Y spliter from MiniDSP HD to D-501 (Followed Pios setup)
I think the clipping may be due to the movie mode? not sure. For now I will watch without the LS.
going to watch Furious (5).

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post #2621 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
I have connected a Y spliter from MiniDSP HD to D-501 (Followed Pios setup)
I think the clipping may be due to the movie mode? not sure. For now I will watch without the LS.
going to watch Furious (5).
Movie mode should be the same as music mode +6dB, in other words, it won't make the amp clip any more than just turning it up 6dB would.

Same with the Y-adapter boost. That explains why you don't need any additional gain in the mDSP.

I think you'll love it without the LS, it's an awesome curve just with the LPF.
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post #2622 of 2728 Old 03-31-2020, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Movie mode should be the same as music mode +6dB, in other words, it won't make the amp clip any more than just turning it up 6dB would.

Same with the Y-adapter boost. That explains why you don't need any additional gain in the mDSP.

I think you'll love it without the LS, it's an awesome curve just with the LPF.
Thank you again for the detailed explanation.

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Hello all. I've had a set of two TS108s for a while now, installed on the back two feet with the isolators up front and have them nicely dialled in for my usual seating position which is middle of a two seater Ikea Tidafors sofa which is sitting on short pile carpet.

However, when my wife joins me or if I sit either side of the middle, the TR drops off. I initially suspected that it was two waveforms meeting in the middle and summing so I tried adding a delay to one of the transducers of around 20ms. That helped somewhat even out the response across the sofa with just me sat there but it still feels stronger in the middle seat. I can live with that but the issue is really adding more body weight.

How do you deal with TR intensity as the number of bodies increases? Do you just turn up the gain on the amp or is there something I can optimize about my installation?
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post #2624 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Personally, I love the NX3000/NX6000 for the money, as long as the fan noise is acceptable and/or the buyer is willing to replace the fan(s).
I am in the process of ordering two Crowson MAs but cannot decide if I should go with the D501 or the NX3000D. How are you liking your NX3000D? Is there any limitation on it's output since it is only rated down to 20Hz and the D501 is 5Hz? The D501 looks like a quality amp but seems a bit limited on power output (500W at 2ohm total for 4 MA). Thanks in advance!

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post #2625 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 11:03 AM
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I'm about to jump into the Crowson club, are you guys buying direct or through a dealer?

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I'm about to jump into the Crowson club, are you guys buying direct or through a dealer?
Give Crowson a DIRECT call or email them (response maybe slower) they are a small company. Also tell Mr. Crowson to offer you AVS member discount. Buy direct and save some money.
Not sure which part of the world you are from. You need to pay for shipping and Import duties+Local Taxes.

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post #2627 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 12:54 PM
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Thanks, i did call and talked to Randy for awhile. I'm in the states, just up in WI.

I've read about 1/4 of this thread, it's HUGE. I think i'm gonna get the 2 MA's and the D501 amp. I have some Paliser seating where each one has one armrest, and there are about 6-8 feet under each one. So i'm struggling a little bit on whether to run a MA under each seat, and replace some of the feet, or eliminate some. Or use a plywood base for the seats with the 2 MA's under it. Replacing all the feet is gonna expensive super quick.

My rear row is 3 seats, but i'm only concerned with TR in the master seat (center) and the one to the left where my wife sits. That covers 95% of the time it's being used, and 80% of that is just me.

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post #2628 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
The D-501 frequency response is down to 5Hz the Behringer NX3000 and 6000 are rated down to 20 Hz, the actuators themselves are rated down to 1 Hz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchcut29 View Post
I am in the process of ordering two Crowson MAs but cannot decide if I should go with the D501 or the NX3000D. How are you liking your NX3000D? Is there any limitation on it's output since it is only rated down to 20Hz and the D501 is 5Hz? The D501 looks like a quality amp but seems a bit limited on power output (500W at 2ohm total for 4 MA). Thanks in advance!
The FR of the NX3000(D) is listed as "20-20kHz", but that does not mean there is a brick wall below 20Hz, far from it. The FR can be shelved up to be flat down to 3-4Hz if desired. Separate from, and perhaps more important than the FR, is the actual output capabilities of the amp down in the single-digits.

All this to say, IMO there are far more important considerations than FR when deciding between these amps:

Power output
Fan noise
Limiter
Cost
Trigger on/off
Input/output connectors
Remote volume control

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post #2629 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:04 PM
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@chrisnack
If you would post your theater seat pictures here then someone will help you. Ideally you would want one motion actuators for each arm rest.

Here is some links for reference on what others have done:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57441458
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56947728
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post38276617
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post45822553
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post50661521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchcut29 View Post
I am in the process of ordering two Crowson MAs but cannot decide if I should go with the D501 or the NX3000D. How are you liking your NX3000D? Is there any limitation on it's output since it is only rated down to 20Hz and the D501 is 5Hz? The D501 looks like a quality amp but seems a bit limited on power output (500W at 2ohm total for 4 MA). Thanks in advance!
I've had both. Honestly I dumped the Behringer as I was getting induced mains noise into the subs when it was connected, even it switched off at the start. Maybe that is just with the 240v 50hz down under. 7t anyhow I didn't get it with the Crowsons.

The fan swap is reasonably simple.
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post #2631 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
@chrisnack
If you would post your theater seat pictures here then someone will help you. Ideally you would want one motion actuators for each arm rest.

Here is some links for reference on what others have done:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57441458
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56947728
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post38276617
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post45822553
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post50661521
Great thanks!

Here is the setup, again i'm only concerned with the back row.
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post #2632 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:20 PM
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Great thanks!

Here is the setup, again i'm only concerned with the back row.

You would need 4 MAs and 4 Motion Isolators(MI), for the MI you can chose the below, some members here have posted good results with this.

h ttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B079SV39KW/ref=pe_3034960_233709270_TE_item

I can't seem to find the post by PioManiac, he started off with 2 MA and ended up adding 2 more.
Hope this helps.

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post #2633 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:21 PM
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Are those isolates on amazon 1" tall as well? They looked like they were much taller based on various pictures. The MA is 1" I was told.

Ouch on the 4 MA's, that's approaching $3k in total then with the amp....

I might try 2 MA's with a plywood base, which would make it similar to a one piece couch.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
@chrisnack
If you would post your theater seat pictures here then someone will help you. Ideally you would want one motion actuators for each arm rest.

Here is some links for reference on what others have done:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57441458
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post56947728
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post38276617
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post45822553
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post50661521
Thanks for these, read through them all, that helped.

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post #2635 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnack View Post
Are those isolates on amazon 1" tall as well? They looked like they were much taller based on various pictures. The MA is 1" I was told.

Ouch on the 4 MA's, that's approaching $3k in total then with the amp....

I might try 2 MA's with a plywood base, which would make it similar to a one piece couch.

The one on amazon is 1.25" height. If cost is prohibitive then DIY is the best option, Click the link below and look for the BOSS platform, Please post all your questions in the respective thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...read-bass.html

what-i-d-do-differently-next-timehttps://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post55641388
Epson Projector Power Supply Failure.https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...lure-rate.html

Last edited by avtvhdbass; 04-13-2020 at 02:00 PM.
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post #2636 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 01:57 PM
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Anyone utilizing the Crowson system with a large LoveSac sectional?


We have one of these big 12' wide x 7' deep movie pit style sectionals where the pieces are connected to each other using pegs and wooden "shoes" where each sectional piece meets.


Curious how well the system works under such seating and how you decided where to place the actuators? I sent an email to Randolph Crowson with some questions too and he is being helpful but curious to hear from LoveSac owners as well if there are any.



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post #2637 of 2728 Old 04-13-2020, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnack View Post
Are those isolates on amazon 1" tall as well? They looked like they were much taller based on various pictures. The MA is 1" I was told.

Ouch on the 4 MA's, that's approaching $3k in total then with the amp....

I might try 2 MA's with a plywood base, which would make it similar to a one piece couch.
2 MAs with a plywood base would work fine, with isos to support the rest of the platform.
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post #2638 of 2728 Old 04-14-2020, 03:26 AM
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D-501 vs NX3000(D)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
The FR of the NX3000(D) is listed as "20-20kHz", but that does not mean there is a brick wall below 20Hz, far from it. The FR can be shelved up to be flat down to 3-4Hz if desired. Separate from, and perhaps more important than the FR, is the actual output capabilities of the amp down in the single-digits.

All this to say, IMO there are far more important considerations than FR when deciding between these amps:

Power output
Fan noise
Limiter
Cost
Trigger on/off
Input/output connectors
Remote volume control
Of course, aron7awol nailed it.

I had the NX3000D for about 5 minutes. It sounded like a jet taking off. Later learned that there is a fan mod that you can do. Not for me.

If it's not going to be in a separate room (with the door closed) and/or you don't want to do a mod, I wouldn't go with the NX.

Then there is the trigger on the D-501, which is also helpful - particularly for me, as the amp is in the theater, and not in the rack in the other room.

And with the NX, you will need to buy, or make, speakon to wire adapters.

Big price difference, but I can tell you the D-501 sits right behind our 2nd row and is dead silent.

Last edited by ht guy; 04-14-2020 at 03:30 AM.
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post #2639 of 2728 Old 04-14-2020, 06:32 AM
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I also have the Crowson amp right behind my seating. Dead silent and powers 4 to my liking.
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post #2640 of 2728 Old 04-14-2020, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ht guy View Post
Of course, aron7awol nailed it.

I had the NX3000D for about 5 minutes. It sounded like a jet taking off. Later learned that there is a fan mod that you can do. Not for me.

If it's not going to be in a separate room (with the door closed) and/or you don't want to do a mod, I wouldn't go with the NX.

Then there is the trigger on the D-501, which is also helpful - particularly for me, as the amp is in the theater, and not in the rack in the other room.

And with the NX, you will need to buy, or make, speakon to wire adapters.

Big price difference, but I can tell you the D-501 sits right behind our 2nd row and is dead silent.
Thank you everyone for the input. I may be leaning more towards the NX amp. Replacing the fan on the NX amp (even if it will be rack mounted in another room) shouldn't be a problem and creating speakon cable for me is actually a plus (not a fan of terminal blocks). I was looking for a good alternative with enough power that can connect multiple MAs (possibly 8) in a 2U form factor.

Main: 3 x JTR 212RT | Surrounds: 2 x JTR 110HT | Subwoofer: 1 x JTR Captivator 4000ULF-LP | 2 x Crowson Motion Actuators w/ Crown DSi 4000
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