The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 91 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2701 of 2728 Old 05-31-2020, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
Thanks for your reply. Well given that I'm in a small apartment and a single SVS SB12 with barely any response down to 20 Hz, not that I can really make full use of that given the circumstances, I assume a single Crowson is going blow my mind based on what I've read here.

I assume the Crowson effect will be isolated to the couch only and the ULF won't affect by neighbors - I ask, it's probably a stupid question but in my complex I have very strict rules and I have an old lady living next to me. Just want to make sure I'm safe in that regard.
Sounds like a perfect use for Crowsons to me - there is zero impact on your neighbors, while your couch is exploding.

I'd get 2 for the couch. As for amps, the NX amps are a lot cheaper, but if not in a different room (my Crowson amp is in the same room as the screen) they have very loud fans. After purchase, I discovered there is a "fan mod" that involves opening up the amp and making some changes - so I returned it and bought the (totally silent) D501. If you are good with opening up amps and making changes (and don't care about the warranty,) the NX amps can be an option.

I had Crowsons for a long time before I got a mini-DSP, and loved them. It's true that the mini-DSP (and a calibration by CallingMrBenzo and aron7awol) made the experience better, but if it were a choice of nothing or Crowsons without a mini-DSP, I'd still get the Crowsons.

After all, you can always upgrade/make the experience better, later.
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post #2702 of 2728 Old 05-31-2020, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
I personally feel that the Crowson amp is much better as it digs down to 5 Hz and lower with the roll off, the Behringer goes down to about 20 Hz
Look, the D-501 has multiple benefits that you can highlight, but I've seen you post this multiple times in here, and I think we need to be careful to post accurate information. The behringers absolutely do not "go down" to 20hz. Have you seen their actual FR? And in any case, do you realize you can change a FR with EQ?

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post #2703 of 2728 Old 05-31-2020, 08:10 AM
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Like I said, the D-501 has some compelling reasons to buy it, including the fan noise. All of that is perfectly valid, I'm not even saying I recommend someone go with a Behringer over the D-501. So forget all that stuff when trying to justify your unrelated claims, it's irrelevant.

The reason for my post is that you saying it has a "frequency response" of 20-20kHz, and I'm not sure you actually know what that means. Do you think it means it is perfectly flat in that range and then has a brickwall below? Do you think it means that 20Hz is its -3dB point? What do you think it means? Now answer the same questions for the D-501.

The problem I have is you are making a claim that the D-501 "digs down to 5 Hz and lower with the roll off" and the Behringer "goes down to about 20 Hz", comparing them directly with those two statements which are so far from an apples-to-apples comparison, that it's, to be frank, useless.

It's important that when we give each other advice, that it's accurate. So I'm sorry that I'm kind of calling you out on this, but I feel like I have to prevent the spread of misinformation. I hope that you will be open-minded to this.

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post #2704 of 2728 Old 05-31-2020, 08:12 AM
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20hz to 20khz is just a standard range that many manufacturers use. This does not convey that a certain product will stop doing anything above or below this range.
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post #2705 of 2728 Old 06-01-2020, 09:42 AM
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I have a Behringer NX3000 and I can tell you it absolutely goes below 20hz.


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post #2706 of 2728 Old 06-01-2020, 01:08 PM
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Not really taking a side here, but it would be fair to assume (especially given the poor documentation behringer provides) that a 20-20khz response means the amp has a high pass filter centered at 20Hz and output below that will be attenuated to some degree which is exactly what we don't want for crowsons. Dayton Audios plate amps do this, although they clearly specify that on their website. While it's true that the rating doesn't mean the amp will misbehave outside of that frequency range there is no guarantee it will behave (have behringer amps been measured to deliver full power outside of the specified range?)

I mean surely there is a reason behringer lists the FR that way and doesn't let you EQ below 20 without using a high shelf filter?
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post51012305

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post54674618


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post54726062

Practically same ampflier, just a different look.
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post #2708 of 2728 Old 06-01-2020, 07:54 PM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Would be curious to see some of that same data for the Crowson amp...

I mean -3db at 6hz is not bad at all... that’s pretty damn easy to account for...


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post #2709 of 2728 Old 06-02-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
Not really taking a side here, but it would be fair to assume (especially given the poor documentation behringer provides) that a 20-20khz response means the amp has a high pass filter centered at 20Hz and output below that will be attenuated to some degree which is exactly what we don't want for crowsons. Dayton Audios plate amps do this, although they clearly specify that on their website. While it's true that the rating doesn't mean the amp will misbehave outside of that frequency range there is no guarantee it will behave (have behringer amps been measured to deliver full power outside of the specified range?)

I mean surely there is a reason behringer lists the FR that way and doesn't let you EQ below 20 without using a high shelf filter?
The good thing is, we don't have to make such assumptions. They are a known commodity, not only can you see the FR was tested in the graph above, but the clean power output has also been tested, as has the zero-attack limiter.

Now, I think it's important to reiterate, I never said one amp was better than other, nor did I say one dug to X and the other dug to Y. The whole issue I had with that initial post was that saying one amp "digs to 5Hz" and the other "goes to 20Hz" was simply misinformation. There's very good reason that FR are shown as graphs, they can't be described by a single number.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy one amp or the other. They each have their pros and cons, and potential ways to mitigate the cons, if desired. The important thing is that people are using accurate information to make their decisions.

FWIW, I've published filters that can be entered in the NU/NX DSP itself to flatten the response, or for those with mDSPs, a filter that does it even slightly better.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
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post #2710 of 2728 Old 06-04-2020, 01:26 PM
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Before looking at this thread I was thinking of upgrading my subwoofer (SVS SB12 NSD ) to a Power Sound Audio S1512. Now I think that would have been a pretty big upgrade, but what's the point in upgrading to a bigger sub if you can get tactile sensation down to 5 Hz or below?

What are the pro's to upgrading to a bigger sub if I'm getting a Crowson?
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post #2711 of 2728 Old 06-04-2020, 01:29 PM
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
Before looking at this thread I was thinking of upgrading my subwoofer (SVS SB12 NSD ) to a Power Sound Audio S1512. Now I think that would have been a pretty big upgrade, but what's the point in upgrading to a bigger sub if you can get tactile sensation down to 5 Hz or below?



What are the pro's to upgrading to a bigger sub if I'm getting a Crowson?


A single sub is never going to be anywhere near the feel of a device like a Crowson. You would need multiple subs to achieve the SPL and response levels.

Think of it as augmenting your experience without having loud volume or a bunch of expensive subs to get down to 10hz.

My sealed subs roll off at 25hz, so the Crowson really helps with all the down low stuff that you can’t necessarily hear but can feel.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
Before looking at this thread I was thinking of upgrading my subwoofer (SVS SB12 NSD ) to a Power Sound Audio S1512. Now I think that would have been a pretty big upgrade, but what's the point in upgrading to a bigger sub if you can get tactile sensation down to 5 Hz or below?

What are the pro's to upgrading to a bigger sub if I'm getting a Crowson?
You cannot achieve what Crowsons can do with subs, having said that you should have a strong sub response in the audible range paired with a TR device. I would still think going from a 12 inch sealed SVS to 15' PSA would be a huge upgrade. Adding TR would be icing on the cake.
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Originally Posted by CallingMrBenzo View Post
You cannot achieve what Crowsons can do with subs, having said that you should have a strong sub response in the audible range paired with a TR device. I would still think going from a 12 inch sealed SVS to 15' PSA would be a huge upgrade. Adding TR would be icing on the cake.


Agreed!

I just wish my other 3 would fricken show up!

I’ve also had pretty much all the other MA’s, Crowsons are where it’s at...


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Originally Posted by chrisnack View Post
Agreed!

I just wish my other 3 would fricken show up!

I’ve also had pretty much all the other MA’s, Crowsons are where it’s at...


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Well a Hover Boss is excellent but is a DIY solution. I’m putting a UM-18 in mine this weekend.
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Yeah you will never get the same effect from subs as you'll get from Crowsons. Even if you do spend thousands and thousands on more powerful subs, and do then get the shaking effect, the level of sound at higher levels would be so high to get the equivalent tactical response that it'd be to my opinion way too many decibels in the audible range.
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Got my nx3000 today. But now I see that nx3000 requires different cables which I don't have. Ordered XLR to rca for input.

But what cable should I use for the output?
Per the manual I have to use professional speaker cables with twist locking plugs. Where can I buy those? And what do you guys recommend?


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post #2717 of 2728 Old 06-10-2020, 08:07 PM
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Got my nx3000 today. But now I see that nx3000 requires different cables which I don't have. Ordered XLR to rca for input.

But what cable should I use for the output?
Per the manual I have to use professional speaker cables with twist locking plugs. Where can I buy those? And what do you guys recommend?


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They are called Speakon connectors.

This is what i got. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisnack View Post
They are called Speakon connectors.

This is what i got. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks. Placed an order.
Arriving tomorrow
Update... Amazon was supposed to deliver it by 8:00 am today. But looks like it will arrive only on Saturday.




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post #2719 of 2728 Old 06-19-2020, 10:47 AM
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Got a recommendation for some Crowson's over on the PSA sub page. Completely new to transducers. Look forward to reading through this thread
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Got a recommendation for some Crowson's over on the PSA sub page. Completely new to transducers. Look forward to reading through this thread
They will be an excellent compliment to your PB16's. Highly recommended.

And as you already have a mini-DSP, also suggest you consider BEQ.
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Planning on buying two MAs for my couch.

The bottom of my couch looks like this: http://www.bestbetmovingandlabor.com...01-320x240.jpg

There are two metal bars that run the length of the three person couch.

It is on top of carpet on concrete.

Hopefully I don't need a full sheet of plywood under the couch, that would be a nonstarter.

What is the recommended setup in this case? Carpet->small plywood square->MA->small plywood square->couch?

What isolation feet are best? The crowson ones or the amazon ones people have linked?

How many isolation feet do I need? 50 lbs per foot would mean 10 feet, in addition to the MAs

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Originally Posted by blazeboss View Post
Planning on buying two MAs for my couch.

The bottom of my couch looks like this: http://www.bestbetmovingandlabor.com...01-320x240.jpg

There are two metal bars that run the length of the three person couch.

It is on top of carpet on concrete.

Hopefully I don't need a full sheet of plywood under the couch, that would be a nonstarter.

What is the recommended setup in this case? Carpet->small plywood square->MA->small plywood square->couch?

What isolation feet are best? The crowson ones or the amazon ones people have linked?

How many isolation feet do I need? 50 lbs per foot would mean 10 feet, in addition to the MAs
Carpet, plywood square, MA, couch feet. For isolation feet put that on every feet that the MAs are not on.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ht guy View Post

I had Crowsons for a long time before I got a mini-DSP, and loved them. It's true that the mini-DSP (and a calibration by CallingMrBenzo and aron7awol) made the experience better, but if it were a choice of nothing or Crowsons without a mini-DSP, I'd still get the Crowsons.

After all, you can always upgrade/make the experience better, later.
I've had mine a few years now and while I loved them with some movies, I wasn't as much of a fan of them with others. Just recently I finally got the miniDSP and with the help pf aron7awol's recommended settings and a little BEQ, these things are completely blowng my mind and making everything feel new again. This is how I always imagined they should be.

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I've had mine a few years now and while I loved them with some movies, I wasn't as much of a fan of them with others. Just recently I finally got the miniDSP and with the help pf aron7awol's recommended settings and a little BEQ, these things are completely blowng my mind and making everything feel new again. This is how I always imagined they should be.
Amen! If anyone who has Crowsons hasn't tried the 6dB/oct curve yet, they are seriously missing out! They really do feel like a whole new device with that curve.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Amen! If anyone who has Crowsons hasn't tried the 6dB/oct curve yet, they are seriously missing out! They really do feel like a whole new device with that curve.
Agree! Most don't realize they have to turn up the gain/volume on the amp when trying lower xover curves. So if you don't do that I can see why those people don't notice a difference if they didn't turn up the gain.

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post #2726 of 2728 Old 06-27-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Agree! Most don't realize they have to turn up the gain/volume on the amp when trying lower xover curves. So if you don't do that I can see why those people don't notice a difference if they didn't turn up the gain.

I am a new crowson owner, so still setting things up. I am using an Nx3000.
I thought the gain on the amp is supposed to be set to max.

What is the 6db curve? And how to set it up?


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post #2727 of 2728 Old 06-27-2020, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
I am a new crowson owner, so still setting things up. I am using an Nx3000.
I thought the gain on the amp is supposed to be set to max.

What is the 6db curve? And how to set it up?
You're right, you should set the amp at max.

Do you have a miniDSP? If so, enter a LPF 10Hz BW 6dB/oct. If you don't, there are some iNuke/NX specific curves in the TR Curves post in my signature.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
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post #2728 of 2728 Old 07-05-2020, 07:07 AM
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Anyone know the exact battery type in the remote control for The D-501 amp? My wife needed a battery and I didn’t check what the number was on the battery. TIA!

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