Official SVS SB-13 Ultra Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 533 Old 10-06-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by flyyyrawb View Post
Hi All. After being on the fence for a couple months as to how to improve the bass response in my room, I just bought a 2nd SB13, and have questions on phase and PEQ.

My first SB13 is to the right of my left main speaker, sitting between the left main and my center speaker. I placed the second one across the room and to the right side of my couch ("nearfield," I guess). The second one is basically across the room from my right speaker. So the subs are across the room from one another, and diagonal from one another, with each facing away from its respective wall toward the opposite wall. I ran Audyssey MultEq XT32 with Sub EQ on my Denon 4520, and the subs both sound pretty good in the room. I would like to know if there's any benefit or need to change the phase of the 2nd sub to 180 degrees (or something else) given that it is facing in the opposite direction of the first. I spoke to SVS and they said Audyssey would handle any needed phase adjustments. My question is, is there any need to change phase on either sub before and/or after running Audyssey?

After running Audyssey, I also set the PEQ-1 to boost at 31 Hz by +2.0 db, with a Q of 4.8, just to get more from the lower end on music and movies. Will that cause any problems?

Thanks
Following up on the above, switching the phase of one of the subs to 180 degrees caused a significant improvement in sound quality in the room. This is, again, with the subwoofers on opposite walls, with each facing away from its respective wall (so generally facing in the exact opposite direction the other is facing), and offset from one another along the walls (not directly across the wall from one another). I had begun to notice a few nulls in the room with the subs both set at 0 degrees, and noticed almost no bass response in the rooms connected to my living room. I turned off one of the subwoofers (nearfield) and noticed that some of these nulls went away, the bass actually hit lower, and that I was actually able to feel and hear the bass in the connected rooms. I was close to sending back the 2nd sub. I then had the idea to turn the second sub back on, but adjust the phase toward 180 degrees. I noticed an improvement, and at 180 degrees, the response in the room is amazing. This is what I was looking for in buying a second. I'm not surprised that Audyssey was unable to correctly adjust phase in the subs - it appears to only measure distance (by timing), and loudness (by loudness). I've been listening to some pretty bassy music and watched John Wick this weekend (highly, highly suggest), and I've never heard bass this accurate, even and deep. I would highly suggest at least trying this for anyone with two subs that are not symmetrically situated in the room.
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post #392 of 533 Old 10-08-2015, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey, but don't you have 2 of the SB13ultras? :P I do like the fact that you can fine tune it. I'm going to keep it at 20hz for a bit and see how I like it and also try 15hz. I'm not sure if plugging all three ports would be too beneficial over the SB13ultra.

I should be getting the PC13 Ultra tomorrow so I'm happy .



Well maybe boomy is the wrong word for it then... Let's just say I did not like the V1500, but I liked the PB1000 and SB13Ultra.
What happened to you have you been blown out of the room ...did you get the sub?

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post #393 of 533 Old 10-08-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
Hey, but don't you have 2 of the SB13ultras? :P I do like the fact that you can fine tune it. I'm going to keep it at 20hz for a bit and see how I like it and also try 15hz. I'm not sure if plugging all three ports would be too beneficial over the SB13ultra.

I should be getting the PC13 Ultra tomorrow so I'm happy .



Well maybe boomy is the wrong word for it then... Let's just say I did not like the V1500, but I liked the PB1000 and SB13Ultra.
What happened to you have you been blown out of the room ...did you get the sub?
Hey again, I got the sub a few days ago and was just waiting on the bigger x4100 receiver to properly power everything. I finally got to set it up and this is exactly the sound quality I was expecting! I am actually leaving it in the high negatives as of right now because of how powerful this thing is, lol. It sounds wonderful with minimal effort!
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post #394 of 533 Old 12-17-2015, 02:21 PM
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Hi Guys

Glad I stumbled across this thread. Have and SB13-Ultra and just moved to a new house with a much bigger home theater (26'x12'x7').

I want more bass, but not necessarily lower frequencies, but do want to be able to "feel" it more. Also, would like the more even dispersion that two subs would bring.

So my question is would a 2nd SB13-Ultra do it, or am I better moving up to ported?

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post #395 of 533 Old 12-17-2015, 06:36 PM
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I have dual SB13 Ultras and 'feel' the bass when the material calls for it. Placement is key to get the maximum extension and extra room gain. Your room size isn't that big to warranty going to a ported PB13 imo...

Just my 2 cents...

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #396 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MalevolentHamster View Post
Hi Guys

Glad I stumbled across this thread. Have and SB13-Ultra and just moved to a new house with a much bigger home theater (26'x12'x7').

I want more bass, but not necessarily lower frequencies, but do want to be able to "feel" it more. Also, would like the more even dispersion that two subs would bring.

So my question is would a 2nd SB13-Ultra do it, or am I better moving up to ported?
A second SB13U would surely do it ... I have one for a 29 x 16 room with a vaulted ceiling and it's more than enough for me ... and I actually "upgraded" from an outlet PC13U.

I find the SB13 better for music, and for HomeTheater, I find the SB still quite capable for LFE (Low Frequency Effects).

You may find that one SB13U is enough, if you are fortunate enough to find a good place to put the single sub ... although a second one "could" be awesome ... "could be", since a second sub doesn't just automatically smooth out the response ... proper placement is as important with two as it is one sub.

Anyway, good luck with your new HT ... the SB13U you already have is a great foundation for your HT ... it may be enough :-)

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MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
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SVS SB13ultra

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post #397 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TomC1315 View Post
A second SB13U would surely do it ... I have one for a 29 x 16 room with a vaulted ceiling and it's more than enough for me ... and I actually "upgraded" from an outlet PC13U.

I find the SB13 better for music, and for HomeTheater, I find the SB still quite capable for LFE (Low Frequency Effects).

You may find that one SB13U is enough, if you are fortunate enough to find a good place to put the single sub ... although a second one "could" be awesome ... "could be", since a second sub doesn't just automatically smooth out the response ... proper placement is as important with two as it is one sub.

Anyway, good luck with your new HT ... the SB13U you already have is a great foundation for your HT ... it may be enough :-)

Attachment 1127098

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How are you liking your Motion 40s? Did you compare them with anything else in their price range?

Glad you went duals. I remember reading a thread on your setup when you got the first Ultra and put it in the corner covering it with a plant

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post #398 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 05:50 AM
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Hi Guys

My room is 26' x 12' x 7'. I currently have a single SVS SB13-Ultra and love it. I'm about to buy a second one.

I'm just planning my theater build and would love to put both subs under the screen (so at front of the room). I know that the preferred placement is at opposite sides, but if I placed them on the same wall and ran them 180-degrees out of phase, would I get the same benefit as one at each end of room?

Thanks

mark

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post #399 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 08:06 AM
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This is not something you just guess at without measurement data to back your hypothesis. I would get a program like REW, or in my case I have ARC since I have an Anthem D2v processor or a high end version of Audyssey.

If you have placement restrictions in your theatre(and who doesn't), I would place the subs in the first preferred spot. Set the phase of the first sub to 0 degrees. Then with both subs playing pink noise or sine-swept tone, adjust the phase of the second sub until you get the widest and smoothest frequency response possible.

Make sure you set both subs to measure the same SPL at the listening position before you start this process. Typical is to set each sub to measure 75dB at the LP and then start the phase tuning to optimize both subs to play as one with the widest and flattest frequency response.

Should the results prove unsatisfactory with huge hulls (+/- 10dB for example) in the frequency region of interest, then reset both sub phase knobs to zero and start first with using the PEQ of the SB13 as a course adjustor and get each sub to measure within say +/- 4dB within its regions of interest. THEN, i'd use the phase process described above to even out the frequency response and get the widest extension as well.

For two subs, the process should take about 1/2 hour or so. The results will be worth it.

In my case, I used the PEQ first on each sub and then phase optimized both subs manually. I eventually got the AS-EQ1 before they were discontinued to do the phase matching for me and have never looked back. Yes, I still used the PEQ with the AS-EQ1 because I had uncorrectable huge nulls that I needed to tame to within +/- 5dB.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #400 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 08:10 AM
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I just moved from the west coast to the east coast and the new place is smaller with no storage space. I'm having trouble find space to store boxes for my dual SB13U subs and my tube amplifiers. Is it critical to still keep these big but well designed boxes or do most of you throw them away?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #401 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
I just moved from the west coast to the east coast and the new place is smaller with no storage space. I'm having trouble find space to store boxes for my dual SB13U subs and my tube amplifiers. Is it critical to still keep these big but well designed boxes or do most of you throw them away?
Well i also have both but i am planing to throw one away when the warranty expires but i will keep one just in case if i have to ship one of the sub to repair or something...i dont know how i would box it without them

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post #402 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 09:21 AM
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Good point...I wonder how often they break. I got my duals in June 2014. Are they still in warranty?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #403 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Good point...I wonder how often they break. I got my duals in June 2014. Are they still in warranty?
I hope they wont break for at least 10 years ...warranty is 5 years

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post #404 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 10:45 AM
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Thanks Tom!
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How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #405 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
I just moved from the west coast to the east coast and the new place is smaller with no storage space. I'm having trouble find space to store boxes for my dual SB13U subs and my tube amplifiers. Is it critical to still keep these big but well designed boxes or do most of you throw them away?
Just break down the boxes (making them flat). Much easier to store.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #406 of 533 Old 12-18-2015, 11:44 AM
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Interesting idea...didn't think of that option. Thanks!

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #407 of 533 Old 12-20-2015, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
How are you liking your Motion 40s? Did you compare them with anything else in their price range?
I've had 'em 3 years now and they continue to sound great :-)

Between my son and I, we have the Motion 40s and his Motion 15s from our initial purchase, and soon thereafter added a Motion 30 center and 2 pair of LX16s (essentially a Motion 15 bookshelf speaker) to my gear, and another LX16 for James' center channel.

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We encountered the Motion series at a store we were visiting, intending to heat the Monitor Audio bronze series towers - which we did side by side with a pair of Motion 20s. There were no Motions 40s to hear, but I definitely wanted the extra woofer that the 40s offer.

How are you liking yours, b23?

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post #408 of 533 Old 12-20-2015, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TomC1315 View Post
I've had 'em 3 years now and they continue to sound great :-)

Between my son and I, we have the Motion 40s and his Motion 15s from our initial purchase, and soon thereafter added a Motion 30 center and 2 pair of LX16s (essentially a Motion 15 bookshelf speaker) to my gear, and another LX16 for James' center channel.

Attachment 1131506

We encountered the Motion series at a store we were visiting, intending to heat the Monitor Audio bronze series towers - which we did side by side with a pair of Motion 20s. There were no Motions 40s to hear, but I definitely wanted the extra woofer that the 40s offer.

How are you liking yours, b23?
I posted mine in the classifieds yesterday. It explains everything pretty well.

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post #409 of 533 Old 12-26-2015, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
I just moved from the west coast to the east coast and the new place is smaller with no storage space. I'm having trouble find space to store boxes for my dual SB13U subs and my tube amplifiers. Is it critical to still keep these big but well designed boxes or do most of you throw them away?
I always keep my sub box since i upgrade a lot. Gonna sell my SB12 NSD and go for a SB13U for my small bedroom. So it will be included with the sub when a buyer comes to pick it up.

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post #410 of 533 Old 12-26-2015, 10:06 AM
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I always keep my sub box since i upgrade a lot. Gonna sell my SB12 NSD and go for a SB13U for my small bedroom. So it will be included with the sub when a buyer comes to pick it up.
It's tolerable if you have 1 sub but with duals or more, the box storage space becomes an issue for someone living in a small apartment. What is it with you easterners anyways with your super small apartments anyways???

Right now, I threw out the outer boxes and broke down the inner boxes to flattened them. Kept the supporting white foam pieces as well and all placed under my bed .

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #411 of 533 Old 12-26-2015, 11:35 AM
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It's tolerable if you have 1 sub but with duals or more, the box storage space becomes an issue for someone living in a small apartment. What is it with you easterners anyways with your super small apartments anyways???

Right now, I threw out the outer boxes and broke down the inner boxes to flattened them. Kept the supporting white foam pieces as well and all placed under my bed .
I just keep my box in the telescope room. i restore older classic scopes.
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post #412 of 533 Old 12-31-2015, 11:00 AM
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Dual SB-13 ultra setup

Hello experts,
After some months of deliberation and countless back and forth exchanges with SVS and Ed Mullen, I finally ordered a pair of the SB-13 ultras in Black oak veneer finish to replace my faithful Velodyne HGS15x (still going strong and I have it up for sale). Ed personally took my phone order today morning.

Beyond excited to have these beastly beauties integrated into my HT with Ed's help. Application is 40/60 music/movies

If anyone had an HGS earlier I would appreciate a quick note on what differences I can expect sonically.
These will be integrated into a 7.1 setup:
B&W 604 s2 towers
B&W LCR 6s2 center
B&W DS3 wall mounted surrounds in monopole config
Pioneer elite sc-37 receiver (used as receiver for surr back L/R channels only, pre-pro for rest)
Rotel rmb-1095 5 channel amp
Velodyne sms-1 eq (currently not being used)
GIK bass trap panels in various places in dedicated media room (14.5' L x 12.5' W x 9.5' H)

The subs will go on either side of my center channel next to the FR and FL speakers.

Thanks,
KSub
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Originally Posted by ksubrama View Post
Hello experts,
After some months of deliberation and countless back and forth exchanges with SVS and Ed Mullen, I finally ordered a pair of the SB-13 ultras in Black oak veneer finish to replace my faithful Velodyne HGS15x (still going strong and I have it up for sale). Ed personally took my phone order today morning.

Beyond excited to have these beastly beauties integrated into my HT with Ed's help. Application is 40/60 music/movies


If anyone had an HGS earlier I would appreciate a quick note on what differences I can expect sonically.
These will be integrated into a 7.1 setup:
B&W 604 s2 towers
B&W LCR 6s2 center
B&W DS3 wall mounted surrounds in monopole config
Pioneer elite sc-37 receiver (used as receiver for surr back L/R channels only, pre-pro for rest)
Rotel rmb-1095 5 channel amp
Velodyne sms-1 eq (currently not being used)
GIK bass trap panels in various places in dedicated media room (14.5' L x 12.5' W x 9.5' H)

The subs will go on either side of my center channel next to the FR and FL speakers.

Thanks,
KSub
Just received the 2 monsters via fedex. I feel an overwhelming sense of excitement bordering on fear at the thought of unpacking them, carrying them up to my media room, and setting them up������


Not sure how, but I managed to single handedly carry the 2 subs to my media room. They are setup with isolation feet at -15 volume and phase 0 as I break them in before I do anything with MCACC.

1/8 update: burned them in for 30 hrs, dialed them in by following Ed's suggestions using SPL for level matching the sub followed by MCACC. Without sms-1 or additional eq, the setup sounds absolutely fantastic.

I set the subs as follows to achieve MCACC level of -6 db:
Left - (15db)
Right - (16db)


I'm now running the subs 3-4 db hot:

Left - (11db)
Right - (12db)

The attack and deep tight bass from the sb13s were gravely lacking on my Velo. On to a weekend filled with music, movies, and dirty looks from my wife :-)

Thanks,
KS
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post #414 of 533 Old 01-05-2016, 10:42 AM
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Carrying them ? Nope...rather its preferred you drag them over to the media room
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How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #415 of 533 Old 01-05-2016, 04:06 PM
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My new Ultra will be here in 2 days.
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Sony 65" A1E Pioneer Elite DV-59 AVI
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Paradigm 60V5'S 490 CC V5
B&W 685 S2's 2 SVS subs
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post #416 of 533 Old 01-07-2016, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomC1315 View Post
A second SB13U would surely do it ... I have one for a 29 x 16 room with a vaulted ceiling and it's more than enough for me ... and I actually "upgraded" from an outlet PC13U.

I find the SB13 better for music, and for HomeTheater, I find the SB still quite capable for LFE (Low Frequency Effects).

You may find that one SB13U is enough, if you are fortunate enough to find a good place to put the single sub ... although a second one "could" be awesome ... "could be", since a second sub doesn't just automatically smooth out the response ... proper placement is as important with two as it is one sub.

Anyway, good luck with your new HT ... the SB13U you already have is a great foundation for your HT ... it may be enough :-)

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nice!

is your placement based on REM or purely due to room limitations?
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post #417 of 533 Old 01-08-2016, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
nice!

is your placement based on REM or purely due to room limitations?
A little bit of REW ... My son and I ran the REW for frequency response (for 9 different locations) and that was about it - no waterfalls or other type of measurements - too involved for me.

My son's advise is, anyway, to trust my ears anyway ... in that respect (despite a dip or two in the REW graph), the SB13ultra sounds great everywhere it needs to.
It sounds great in the MLP, over at the computer desk, at the dining room table, and even in the breakfast nook in the kitchen (I ran a 6th speaker cable through the living room/kitchen wall for a 6th speaker (mono) in the kitchen (employing 'multi channel stereo' for listening to music).
The bass response sounds great in all these areas ... and the music in question has a lot of bass and sub bass in it (e.g. Trashbat, Vaun, Congi).
And there's power to spare as well ... Not sure the SB2000 could measure up in an area as large as mine, but the SB13 is more than up to the task.

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having a speaker in the kitchen along with good bass response from the SB13U takes visiting with my wife while she makes dinner to a whole new & better level.
Interesting note ... I first set the crossover for the 6th (mono) speaker at 60Hz, which proved to be way too boomy ... raised the crossover to 90Hz and ... viola !!!
Additionally, about the only place where there is a significant overall null, is at the kitchen counter where she's slicin' & dicin' ... no bass, no biggie for her :-)


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MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
Emotiva XPA-3
SVS SB13ultra

exercise room: MartinLogan LX16s / SVS SB2000

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post #418 of 533 Old 01-08-2016, 07:42 AM
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My new Ultra will be here in 2 days.
Thanks to the FED EX driver i have no sub. Someone was here all day the guy never knocked, just left a note and left. I know full well the he did not want to mess with the heavy box. They got a cussing out on the phone last nite.

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post #419 of 533 Old 01-08-2016, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Thanks to the FED EX driver i have no sub. Someone was here all day the guy never knocked, just left a note and left. I know full well the he did not want to mess with the heavy box. They got a cussing out on the phone last nite.
OMG that is pretty bad ...well i hope you get it soon

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post #420 of 533 Old 01-08-2016, 10:34 AM
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Unfortunately, that happens more often than people realize. You wait home all day. monitoring the tracking of your merchandise, only to realize that there has been an 'exception' in the shipment..."Customer not available at premises" !!! You wonder what the heck just happened and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Calling the 1800FEDEX number is useless....pleading with the customer service to have the driver return that same day is useless. I've tried it all. Just leaves you steaming and cussing silently for the next couple of hours...

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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