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post #511 of 533 Old 01-24-2017, 10:25 PM
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Audiomanz:

See the procedure I just described in the PB16/SB16 forum at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post50183889

In short, Phase angle adjustment is not binary,i.e. 0 or 180 degrees ... It's any angle that gives you the flattest and widest frequency response. All is well described in the above link
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How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #512 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Audiomanz:

See the procedure I just described in the PB16/SB16 forum at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post50183889

In short, Phase angle adjustment is not binary,i.e. 0 or 180 degrees ... It's any angle that gives you the flattest and widest frequency response. All is well described in the above link
Hi dmusoke...read your article. Its pretty straightforward. All I have is the test tones produced by pre/pro so I would just use that to set the subs. You say to adjust both subs as opposed to setting the sub closest and leaving the other one at 0 degrees. Any reason why adjust both subs? Just trying to understand it thats all. Thanks dmusoke.

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post #513 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi dmusoke...read your article. Its pretty straightforward. All I have is the test tones produced by pre/pro so I would just use that to set the subs. You say to adjust both subs as opposed to setting the sub closest and leaving the other one at 0 degrees. Any reason why adjust both subs? Just trying to understand it thats all. Thanks dmusoke.

audiomanz
No, you've misunderstood my post. You must first level match each sub to some reference level, say 75dB as measured from your listening position. After both are equally matched, then play the test signals through both subs at the same time. Then leave sub A at its default phase of zero and adjust phase of Sub B only until you get the most even and widest frequency response.

Phase adjustment is only done on one sub, while the other is left at its reference/default phase of zero. The goal is to synchronize the sounds from both subs until they play as 1 virtual sub.

Now, I said you can try procedure 3a OR you can try 3b but definately NOT both. See which gives the best results.


Good luck!
- David

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630

Last edited by dmusoke; 01-25-2017 at 07:52 AM.
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post #514 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
No, you've misunderstood my post. You must first level match each sub to some reference level, say 75dB as measured from your listening position. After both are equally matched, then play the test signals through both subs at the same time. Then leave sub A at its default phase of zero and adjust phase of Sub B only until you get the most even and widest frequency response.

Phase adjustment is only done on one sub, while the other is left at its reference/default phase of zero. The goal is to synchronize the sounds from both subs until they play as 1 virtual sub.

Now, I said you can try procedure 3a OR you can try 3b but definately NOT both. See which gives the best results.


Good luck!
- David
Hi dmusoke..ok gotcha!! SVS basically said the same thing as well in regards to calibrating the dual subs. They said turn the phase on the sub closest until you get the highest SPL reading on the SPL meter. They also said that leaving it at 0 phase as well is most likely the ideal place. Something to that effect but yes I will give it a try and go from there. Thank you for your responses and tips. Much appreciated.

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post #515 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi dmusoke..ok gotcha!! SVS basically said the same thing as well in regards to calibrating the dual subs. They said turn the phase on the sub closest until you get the highest SPL reading on the SPL meter. They also said that leaving it at 0 phase as well is most likely the ideal place. Something to that effect but yes I will give it a try and go from there. Thank you for your responses and tips. Much appreciated.

audiomanz
Ok dmusoke..did the calibration. The subwoofer closest to me is the one behind the couch..no matter cause the 0 phase degree gives the best bass and fullness. Calibrated both subs to 75 db slow weight C and move the phase degree in increments of 15 degrees on the sub located behind my couch. Ended up at 180 degrees and did a test. Playing some music but again the lower bass frequency felt lost. Moved it back to 0 phase and the lower frequencies returned. The sub distance was at 3.0 and I added 1.5 to make it 4.5 ft. I'm thinking that may be a bit much as I can't really feel it like before and I couldn't localize them when I had it at 3.0 ft. Will experiment more. I was considering maybe turning up the subs a bit more or could it be the phase needs some tweaking. Tweaking is so much fun eh..:-)

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post #516 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Ok dmusoke..did the calibration. The subwoofer closest to me is the one behind the couch..no matter cause the 0 phase degree gives the best bass and fullness. Calibrated both subs to 75 db slow weight C and move the phase degree in increments of 15 degrees on the sub located behind my couch. Ended up at 180 degrees and did a test. Playing some music but again the lower bass frequency felt lost. Moved it back to 0 phase and the lower frequencies returned. The sub distance was at 3.0 and I added 1.5 to make it 4.5 ft. I'm thinking that may be a bit much as I can't really feel it like before and I couldn't localize them when I had it at 3.0 ft. Will experiment more. I was considering maybe turning up the subs a bit more or could it be the phase needs some tweaking. Tweaking is so much fun eh..:-)

Audiomanz
Have you tried the opposite? Having the sub behind your couch as the reference at 0 degree phase and have the phase of the furthest one adjusted instead. In my setup with the furthest sub in front and the closest one on the left front wall, adjusting the phase of the furthest sub produced the widest and flattest bass response.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #517 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Have you tried the opposite? Having the sub behind your couch as the reference at 0 degree phase and have the phase of the furthest one adjusted instead. In my setup with the furthest sub in front and the closest one on the left front wall, adjusting the phase of the furthest sub produced the widest and flattest bass response.
No I didn't try that one yet. Just doing as I was instructed..hahaha..good listener eh..lol..So do you recommend I leave the delay at 4.5 db? I find it produces less bass at that distance setting. When I put it back to 3.5 db the bass returned.

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post #518 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
No I didn't try that one yet. Just doing as I was instructed..hahaha..good listener eh..lol..So do you recommend I leave the delay at 4.5 db? I find it produces less bass at that distance setting. When I put it back to 3.5 db the bass returned.

Audiomanz
Ok, adjusted the phase to about 60 degrees on the sub furthest away. Delay setting at 4.5 db. Still seems empty as opposed when I had it at 3.0 db. Just playing computer music so not sure if thats a good test but its on DPLII- M mode right now played through my Rotel DAC. Considering at this point to change it back to 3.0 db.

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post #519 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 06:42 PM
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It's tough to gauge by ear alone. You need to have some sort of display of your room's frequency response to optimize your results. Can you get one like REW and others like it? You need to see what's going on with your own eyes and not your ears. One of the few times this could be true...

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #520 of 533 Old 01-25-2017, 08:08 PM
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Well, right now it will have to do. Thanks for your advice dmusoke. I appreciate all your responses. I'm gonna just do my best for now by ear and tweak from there. I'm sure I can get it within reason and the fellas at SVS are also very helpful as well as I'm sure you are already aware. Cheers.

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post #521 of 533 Old 01-26-2017, 08:32 AM
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Should you decide to get some sort of analysis tool, there are many free ones on the internet. And those apps with accurate and calibrated microphones are modestly priced too, well under $300.

Here are some options for an excellent and calibrated microphone for $120 ...http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php...icrophone.html

Specifications: • Capsule type: Precision 6 mm electret condenser • Polar Response: True omnidirectional • Frequency response: 18-20,000 Hz (Calibrated) • Sensitivity at 1 kHz into 1K ohm: 10 mV/Pa (-40dBV, re. 0dB = 1V/Pa) • Maximum SPL for 1% THD @ 1000 Hz: 127 dB • S/N ratio: 70 dB (A-weighted) • Connector: USB B female • Weight: 148 grams.


And this software is free at http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ ...

Well worth the investment for your entire audio setup.


PS
I have no financial interests or affiliations with either of these companies or their products.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630

Last edited by dmusoke; 01-26-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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post #522 of 533 Old 01-29-2017, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Should you decide to get some sort of analysis tool, there are many free ones on the internet. And those apps with accurate and calibrated microphones are modestly priced too, well under $300.

Here are some options for an excellent and calibrated microphone for $120 ...http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php...icrophone.html

Specifications: • Capsule type: Precision 6 mm electret condenser • Polar Response: True omnidirectional • Frequency response: 18-20,000 Hz (Calibrated) • Sensitivity at 1 kHz into 1K ohm: 10 mV/Pa (-40dBV, re. 0dB = 1V/Pa) • Maximum SPL for 1% THD @ 1000 Hz: 127 dB • S/N ratio: 70 dB (A-weighted) • Connector: USB B female • Weight: 148 grams.


And this software is free at http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ ...

Well worth the investment for your entire audio setup.




PS
I have no financial interests or affiliations with either of these companies or their products.
Hi dmusoke..thanks for the information. Great resource. For now I used my SPL meter and I feel I got the subs pretty good to where I'm happy with them. Fronts are at 60Hz, Centre- 60 Hz, surrounds-80Hz, subs- 80Hz. Distance for subs are at 3 ft. I tried the +1.5 but I lost some bass and it didn't sound full at all so setting it to 3 ft sounded the best. I find dual subs of this calibre are sensitive to slight changes. For example I set the mains and centre to 50Hz and I lost the punch it had when it was set at 60Hz. So I set it back. Once I calibrated the subs to 75Db I turned both on and had to dial back my sub volume to -2db. Not bad. Phase at both subs is at 0 degrees. For now I will leave it there and enjoy the subs. Movies are great and give that pound in your chest I was looking for by getting identical subs..haha. Music sounds awesome as well. Clarity, depth to the music and very detailed sound I am hearing some things I have not heard on some music. Awesome!!

I'm sure the calibration information will help me down the road and I do appreciate that information a lot. So thanks again. Let there be Rock!!

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post #523 of 533 Old 03-17-2017, 08:37 PM
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Hi all,

Anyone keep their SB13 Ultra in an audio cabinet such as the Salamander single cabinet? I was considering it but not sure if it would effect the sound any inside an enclosed space. I see some positives such as: ability to move it around my room as it would be on casters, the gloss black finish will be protected from anything dropping on top of the sub as I have it right beside my Ikea shelving unit. I wouldn't enclose it completely. I wouldn't put a door on it and may or may not leave off the back enclosure as well but once I have it set would need to set it unless I move it. So there are some of my reasons for placing it a cabinet.
Would I compromise the sound of the sub by placing it in a semi open cabinet?

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post #524 of 533 Old 03-17-2017, 08:44 PM
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loving mine

my 2 subs
SVS PB13ultra and VELODYNE SPL-1200



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7.2.4 system : Focal Aria 926, Focal CC900, Focal SR700x2, Focal IC106x2, SVS PB13u x2 , Marantz 8012, Epson 5040ub ,Elitescreen 120" cinewhite, Himediaq10pro, Ubox Pro, Pioneer Laser Disc, Sony Dvd Player, Harmony Elite, Berkline Reno x5, Audioquest, QED, Kimberkables, MIT, Straightwires....looking for UHD player
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post #525 of 533 Old 03-18-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomanz View Post
Hi all,

Anyone keep their SB13 Ultra in an audio cabinet such as the Salamander single cabinet? I was considering it but not sure if it would effect the sound any inside an enclosed space. I see some positives such as: ability to move it around my room as it would be on casters, the gloss black finish will be protected from anything dropping on top of the sub as I have it right beside my Ikea shelving unit. I wouldn't enclose it completely. I wouldn't put a door on it and may or may not leave off the back enclosure as well but once I have it set would need to set it unless I move it. So there are some of my reasons for placing it a cabinet.
Would I compromise the sound of the sub by placing it in a semi open cabinet?

audiomanz
As long as the sub can breath, you're good. No worries.
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post #526 of 533 Old 03-18-2017, 01:23 PM
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As long as the sub can breath, you're good. No worries.
Thanks for your response Freddy Ford. I will give it some thought on this one some more. I was just wondering if any forum members has that type of setup as well and can share their experiences too. Thanks Freddy Ford.

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post #527 of 533 Old 03-18-2017, 01:35 PM
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Completely enclosing the sub in a cabinet, if that's what you want to not advisable at all. You'd be placing obstacles(cabinet doors) in front of the subwoofer which doesn't make sense from a bass point of view. It's similar to placing the sub behind a couch which absorbs a lot more bass than is needed.

If the front of the sub is not blocked but is open into the listening room, then there should be no problem as long as ventilation is available. Maybe the backside of the cabinet would be open?

David

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #528 of 533 Old 03-18-2017, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Completely enclosing the sub in a cabinet, if that's what you want to not advisable at all. You'd be placing obstacles(cabinet doors) in front of the subwoofer which doesn't make sense from a bass point of view. It's similar to placing the sub behind a couch which absorbs a lot more bass than is needed.

If the front of the sub is not blocked but is open into the listening room, then there should be no problem as long as ventilation is available. Maybe the backside of the cabinet would be open?

David
Hi dmusoke. Thanks for your response. In my post earlier that is the idea I had with this in mind. Thanks for the reinforcement. I would not buy the door cause I wouldn't need it and most likely would not put the cover on the back but I'm also ok with the cover on the back as the bass is coming from the front. Instead of solid sides, Salamander provides perforated sides as well which would be good for airflow as well but should give it enough room to breathe. The only other issue may be during loud deep bass, would the perforated sides rattle as they would be black metallic sides. Having Salamander using Def techs previous the sides did rattle during loud LFE passages. Thats another consideration I'm also mindful of too. Thanks again.

audiomanz.
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post #529 of 533 Old 06-15-2017, 05:27 PM
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loving mine

my 2 subs
SVS PB13ultra and VELODYNE SPL-1200



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Whoa what a beastly setup!
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post #530 of 533 Old 09-28-2017, 01:50 PM
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Quick question for the experts:-
The SB13U manual is very specific about how the sub reacts to the setting of the ON/AUTO switch - particularly when the mains AC is applied. It states that the sub will not switch on by itself, instead the owner much use the Control Knob to bring the sub out of standby if set to ON, or wait until a signal is present if using AUTO.
My very recently purchased SB13U switches ON whenever the AC mains is applied (LCD lights up) without an input signal, I have the switch set to ON. I'm not complaining, it's working the way I wanted it to, but it seems wrong according to the manual????
Have I simply misunderstood the manual, or have SVS changed the internal firmware, affecting the operation.
Regards, Mike.
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post #531 of 533 Old 03-01-2018, 06:42 PM
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Currently have the PB1000. Will upgrading to a SB13 Ultra be significant difference ? Mainly for movies. Foot print of this sub is perfect for my layout.

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post #532 of 533 Old 03-02-2018, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoogts View Post
currently have the pb1000. Will upgrading to a sb13 ultra be significant difference ? Mainly for movies. Foot print of this sub is perfect for my layout.
massive !!!!
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post #533 of 533 Old 03-02-2018, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
massive !!!!

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGTS View Post
Currently have the PB1000. Will upgrading to a SB13 Ultra be significant difference ? Mainly for movies. Foot print of this sub is perfect for my layout.

Yes, definably better, not even in the same league


That said, since you mention "mainly movies".
If the foot print would allow a PB13 Ultra, instead of a SB13 Ultra.
The difference would be Even Bigger


But, since you also mention "foot print", using a measuring tape (not only once or twice).
I would definably check out the dimension of the two, before pressing the "Buy Button", those measuring tape can be your best friend


Ray
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