Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 167 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4981 of 5119 Old 05-18-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Is that the lowest tune you could get? I thought your 8 SIs had a 7hz tune?

That is what I designed for but the enclosure is at least 50 cubes bigger so it will probably end up 8hz or lower in my room.

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post #4982 of 5119 Old 05-18-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Yep! Your subriser must completely go through that futon cushion...having more dense seating wouldn't get you the same result!
Not necessarily.
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post #4983 of 5119 Old 05-18-2017, 07:09 PM
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Not necessarily.
This is a maybe but, a heavier couch may adhere to the rise. The same fore will be transmitted. The couch will shake a bit less but, sence energy does not disappear, it has to go somewhere, the occupant of the seat.

I say this because a few folk with riser have demo'ed my HT which, is on concrete and are amazed at the force coming to the seats.
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post #4984 of 5119 Old 05-18-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
This is a maybe but, a heavier couch may adhere to the rise. The same fore will be transmitted. The couch will shake a bit less but, sence energy does not disappear, it has to go somewhere, the occupant of the seat.

I say this because a few folk with riser have demo'ed my HT which, is on concrete and are amazed at the force coming to the seats.
What I was referring to was the seat testing I did where I changed the support from rubber to jute to MDF. My thought would be if rubber is a 2 and jute is a 5 then mdf is a 8. Not so. If I remember correctly it was MDF 2 rubber 5 jute 8.

Now to your point. Its quite possible that in the end good ol' concrete is the best option. Riser most definitely have a resonance. Couldn't they have a null as well? I'm thinking more and more about removing my riser.
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post #4985 of 5119 Old 05-19-2017, 09:51 AM
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My main point was some energy is being lost from the seat between the coupling of the couch and riser. Isolation feet and keeping the couch in solid contact with the riser is of benefit. There are to many variables to say with certainty. I am not discounting the study on risers done early in the ULF thread. Riser vs concrete will have different emphasis on seat movement vs energy transfer to the person sitting.
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post #4986 of 5119 Old 05-19-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
^^^This.

It's definitely a balancing act. Too much TR and Intensity can take away from other nuances of the HT experience (weight, pressure, snappiness, detail, etc.). It's analogous to running your bass to hot...run it hot enough and you start to lose detail from your mains, surrounds, etc. as the bass becomes so prominent, it overpowers everything.
I agree with your summary and with the posts you quoted in making it. The only thing that I would add is that the appropriate balance at any given time may not necessarily be a static one. Like several of the other posters, I may choose slightly different things to emphasize, depending on the content, and on my own mood. A couple of people noted that they don't max out their volumes all the time. With me, it's partly a matter of the mood that I'm in. Some days it's fun to really let it rip with loud volumes and low bass, and on other occasions I might be content with lower volumes and less low bass.

As SBuger noted earlier, the listening volume can affect the equilibrium between mid-bass and ULF, due to the way our hearing works (the Equal Loudness Contours). So, for instance, if I leave my subs at the same +15 setting when I am listening at -10 MV, and at -15 MV, I will hear relatively more ULF at -10, and relatively more mid-bass at -15, because we hear mid-bass frequencies more easily than we do lower ones. Depending on what I'm in the mood for, I may just raise or lower my master volume to change the acoustic balance in the way I want it for that particular movie or mood.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #4987 of 5119 Old 05-23-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
This is a maybe but, a heavier couch may adhere to the rise. The same fore will be transmitted. The couch will shake a bit less but, sence energy does not disappear, it has to go somewhere, the occupant of the seat.

I say this because a few folk with riser have demo'ed my HT which, is on concrete and are amazed at the force coming to the seats.
Your saying better/heavier seating will be better on a riser and even better on concrete than cheaper/lighter seating. I could be wrong but I'm starting to think the same way. I'm sold. Even if its not a quantity improvement, a quality one, would be as much or more welcome.

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post #4988 of 5119 Old 05-23-2017, 09:55 AM
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I do like when I shake more than my chair and I do like the quality of bass better on concrete than the riser. My two XXX 18s equal my 8 18 wall!
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post #4989 of 5119 Old 05-24-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I agree with your summary and with the posts you quoted in making it. The only thing that I would add is that the appropriate balance at any given time may not necessarily be a static one. Like several of the other posters, I may choose slightly different things to emphasize, depending on the content, and on my own mood. A couple of people noted that they don't max out their volumes all the time. With me, it's partly a matter of the mood that I'm in. Some days it's fun to really let it rip with loud volumes and low bass, and on other occasions I might be content with lower volumes and less low bass.

As SBuger noted earlier, the listening volume can affect the equilibrium between mid-bass and ULF, due to the way our hearing works (the Equal Loudness Contours). So, for instance, if I leave my subs at the same +15 setting when I am listening at -10 MV, and at -15 MV, I will hear relatively more ULF at -10, and relatively more mid-bass at -15, because we hear mid-bass frequencies more easily than we do lower ones. Depending on what I'm in the mood for, I may just raise or lower my master volume to change the acoustic balance in the way I want it for that particular movie or mood.

Regards,
Mike
So true. Even our perception can be off day to day, and without any changes to the system, the feel is different. Changing gear and placement of subs can disrupt that balance and while you may increase both quantity and quality of your system in doing so, you simply may not like it as much due to it feeling different. Then, over time and after tuning the new setup, you can get to a point were you may like it better.
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post #4990 of 5119 Old 05-24-2017, 12:56 PM
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The thread has taken on an interesting point. The TR will be different on a riser vs a a more solid surface like concrete. This remind me of the roller coaster at 6 Flags VS the space shuttle. They are both great ride but way different. Is one better, ask me on different days.

One day I may like my chair/seat to shake the hell out of me and the next day I want the force not to be sent to the seat and sent directly to me. This is the possible difference between a riser and concrete.

Now, we know you will need a mega system to do this on concrete because you need to make up around 14 or 15 db of spl. to equal a riser. There are mega system that can do this, I have one. Now the question is which way do I go,, flow with the river for the easy path. Maximize your room with it resources or tear everything out and reconstruct the space. This will ouch! or cost a ton more money. From my view, there is no one and only way to go so, don't break the bank because it can be bested in another scenario
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post #4991 of 5119 Old 05-24-2017, 12:59 PM
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I have watched this thread grow and help many in elevating their HT experience. This thread has repeatedly questioned it's self and end points. Data integrity has been a hallmark for this type of ongoing thread.

It is apparent that some conclusion can be drawn with this much data accumulated and tested. The HT is complex and there is no one perfect scenario. There are large variances mostly because of the room. Different experiences will largely depend on the room. There is enough data to have a good ideal of what that experience is in a given room.

We may be at a point that subjective data is relevant since the goal is also what people perceived to be a good HT experience and are comfortable with.
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post #4992 of 5119 Old 05-24-2017, 02:00 PM
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This remind me of the roller coaster at 6 Flags VS the space shuttle.
WOAH!!!

You rode the Space Shuttle?!?!? F**k yeah, man! That's awesome! I didn't know you were/are an astronaut.



Got any GoPro footage of it??!
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post #4993 of 5119 Old 05-24-2017, 05:04 PM
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I never left the planet Scott, lol. It is just that the two style of HT will differ. What is better, I sure as hell don't know. To many variables but, either way, I will enjoy the ride.
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post #4994 of 5119 Old 05-25-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I do like when I shake more than my chair and I do like the quality of bass better on concrete than the riser. My two XXX 18s equal my 8 18 wall!
We're moving You and Scott from the VibSensor's Max G's vibration measurement to the Lbs of Thrust category. Instead of vibration you guys will be judged on how quickly you can place a payload in orbit. Sorry Dom, you'll have to redo the card again.
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post #4995 of 5119 Old 05-25-2017, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I agree with your summary and with the posts you quoted in making it. The only thing that I would add is that the appropriate balance at any given time may not necessarily be a static one. Like several of the other posters, I may choose slightly different things to emphasize, depending on the content, and on my own mood. A couple of people noted that they don't max out their volumes all the time. With me, it's partly a matter of the mood that I'm in. Some days it's fun to really let it rip with loud volumes and low bass, and on other occasions I might be content with lower volumes and less low bass.

As SBuger noted earlier, the listening volume can affect the equilibrium between mid-bass and ULF, due to the way our hearing works (the Equal Loudness Contours). So, for instance, if I leave my subs at the same +15 setting when I am listening at -10 MV, and at -15 MV, I will hear relatively more ULF at -10, and relatively more mid-bass at -15, because we hear mid-bass frequencies more easily than we do lower ones. Depending on what I'm in the mood for, I may just raise or lower my master volume to change the acoustic balance in the way I want it for that particular movie or mood.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
So true. Even our perception can be off day to day, and without any changes to the system, the feel is different. Changing gear and placement of subs can disrupt that balance and while you may increase both quantity and quality of your system in doing so, you simply may not like it as much due to it feeling different. Then, over time and after tuning the new setup, you can get to a point were you may like it better.


I've always felt this way. My perceptions of my system can change from day to day, or even from song to song (or movie to movie). It's all about what mood we are in. People laugh when they see all my bass curves (haha, and rightly so) for my mini 2x4 but that's why I have them, because what I want isn't set in stone.

Some days I swear that music in 2 channel is better and why would I ever use the upmixer... and then the next day it's the opposite. Some days I want my chest to feel every kick drum even at lower volumes and the next day it's annoying. Ok, rarely is it annoying but it does happen.

Bottom line, as long as we have a system that is capable of playing content back how we want/when we want it and we are set! The trick is we need to have enough time tinkering to find out all these different preferences to match our mood.
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post #4996 of 5119 Old 05-25-2017, 01:30 PM
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Yes, it has always been preference but one needs to experience as much as possible to decide. One of the reasons I swap out so much is I want to test stuff. I like comparing subs from DB and see how they compare in my room with my wall. I can tell you guys the XXX 18 in my wall is a whole different beast than that small sealed box tested in. It is my favorite bass system so far. Mid bass is not lacking at all. I can't wait to get the rest of the speakers finished for my next atmos. I can't do 7.2.4 with these speakers but a properly placed 5.2.4 is coming.
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post #4997 of 5119 Old 05-25-2017, 03:34 PM
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I never left the planet Scott, lol. It is just that the two style of HT will differ. What is better, I sure as hell don't know. To many variables but, either way, I will enjoy the ride.

Aww! I thought I knew a real astronaut I could space-nerd out on.
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post #4998 of 5119 Old 05-26-2017, 12:56 PM
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Aww! I thought I knew a real astronaut I could space-nerd out on.
I worked closely with NASA in the past, 13 years as a Meteorologist, 3 years in Solar Physics and the Near-Earth Space Environment, finishing my degree in Aeronautical Science with minors in Space Studies and Meteorology, and am a Pilot. Might be the closest you'll get.
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post #4999 of 5119 Old 05-26-2017, 02:16 PM
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I worked closely with NASA in the past, 13 years as a Meteorologist, 3 years in Solar Physics and the Near-Earth Space Environment, finishing my degree in Aeronautical Science with minors in Space Studies and Meteorology, and am a Pilot. Might be the closest you'll get.
Sweeet!
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post #5000 of 5119 Old 05-27-2017, 08:26 AM
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I worked closely with NASA in the past, 13 years as a Meteorologist, 3 years in Solar Physics and the Near-Earth Space Environment, finishing my degree in Aeronautical Science with minors in Space Studies and Meteorology, and am a Pilot. Might be the closest you'll get.
This is Rocket Science!

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post #5001 of 5119 Old 06-03-2017, 02:26 AM
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I am not sure what the differences are in all these transducers, but I just picked up the clark 209`s, bottom of the line and they do pretty good.

First ones I have ever used and I have one per recliner hooked to a niles si275 amp......they are pretty outstanding.


Not sure the difference since they will produce vibrations up to 800hz and make sound to 17,000hz, but they hit pretty hard.


They are rated down to 15hz, but go much lower than that.......


They were a good addition to the fun of this room !


I wish I was able to check out all the different ones to get a real first hand feel for the differences in them.....


Even though I will be doing 4, 18`s in a LLT, these will be staying in the chairs.........they do a additive that is hard to describe......

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #5002 of 5119 Old 06-06-2017, 07:47 PM
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The Clark's should be a nice addition to the HT. Checkout the Vibsensor thread. I don't think we have any data on the Clarks.
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post #5003 of 5119 Old 06-06-2017, 10:20 PM
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The Clark's should be a nice addition to the HT. Checkout the Vibsensor thread. I don't think we have any data on the Clarks.
Link please...my searchfu on this site is weak....

Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
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post #5004 of 5119 Old 06-07-2017, 05:14 AM
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Link please...my searchfu on this site is weak....
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...st-thread.html

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post #5005 of 5119 Old 07-25-2017, 06:05 AM
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Hi,

I've been trying to use the ULF calculator, but have had no luck, maybe my computer is having problems or something.
I built on to my theater, it is a dedicated, sealed off room. It is 5300 cubic feet (28x20x9.5). Seating distance is going to be about 18 feet. I have 2 fv15hp's in one port mode, I'm trying to figure out if I can buy 2 more of them and place one of them on top of each of the two I already have and be able to hit reference or if I need to sale my rythmiks and get a couple big jtr vented subs. Any help would be much appreciated! System is used for 100% movies... thanks


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post #5006 of 5119 Old 07-25-2017, 11:58 PM
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That is an extremely large room. A room that size will need at least 4 18 in. subs in ported boxes IMHO.
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post #5007 of 5119 Old 07-26-2017, 07:47 AM
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Hi,

I've been trying to use the ULF calculator, but have had no luck, maybe my computer is having problems or something.
I built on to my theater, it is a dedicated, sealed off room. It is 5300 cubic feet (28x20x9.5). Seating distance is going to be about 18 feet. I have 2 fv15hp's in one port mode, I'm trying to figure out if I can buy 2 more of them and place one of them on top of each of the two I already have and be able to hit reference or if I need to sale my rythmiks and get a couple big jtr vented subs. Any help would be much appreciated! System is used for 100% movies... thanks


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Yes, with quad FV15HP in a 5,300ft^3 room, you'll be capable above reference level at 16Hz and up, that's in one port mode, and even in 2 ports open you'll be "only" reference capable from 16Hz up, which is darn impressive! You're already reference capable with just the 2 subs in one port mode from 20Hz and up.

The FV15HP is a workhorse! If you're happy with Rythmik, I'd defintely just add another pair of FV15HP. Attached the ULF scorecard PDFs.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf FV15HP 2 Subs.pdf (36.6 KB, 21 views)
File Type: pdf FV15HP 4 Subs.pdf (36.6 KB, 15 views)
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post #5008 of 5119 Old 07-26-2017, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearpro View Post
Hi,

I've been trying to use the ULF calculator, but have had no luck, maybe my computer is having problems or something.
I built on to my theater, it is a dedicated, sealed off room. It is 5300 cubic feet (28x20x9.5). Seating distance is going to be about 18 feet. I have 2 fv15hp's in one port mode, I'm trying to figure out if I can buy 2 more of them and place one of them on top of each of the two I already have and be able to hit reference or if I need to sale my rythmiks and get a couple big jtr vented subs. Any help would be much appreciated! System is used for 100% movies... thanks


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Yes, with quad FV15HP in a 5,300ft^3 room, you'll be capable above reference level at 16Hz and up, that's in one port mode, and even in 2 ports open you'll be "only" reference capable from 16Hz up, which is darn impressive! You're already reference capable with just the 2 subs in one port mode from 20Hz and up.

The FV15HP is a workhorse! If you're happy with Rythmik, I'd defintely just add another pair of FV15HP. Attached the ULF scorecard PDFs.
Honestly, if you have a good FR right now, I'd get the FV25 over two FV15HPs.



With the FV25, you should get reference down to 12.5hz! That's impressive for a 5300 sqft room!
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File Type: jpg gearpro ULF Card.JPG (45.4 KB, 244 views)
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post #5009 of 5119 Old 07-26-2017, 06:00 PM
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Thank you all for the advice and doing the calculator, I really appreciate it!! I think I will get a fv25hp and put up front on one side and double stack the two fv15hp's on the other side and in a few months get another fv25 to take the fv15's spot and move the fv15's near field behind my seat..


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post #5010 of 5119 Old 07-26-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearpro View Post
Thank you all for the advice and doing the calculator, I really appreciate it!! I think I will get a fv25hp and put up front on one side and double stack the two fv15hp's on the other side and in a few months get another fv25 to take the fv15's spot and move the fv15's near field behind my seat..


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I'm betting that setup will be quite amazing! I thought about doing something similar at one point. Well, not the FV25HP's (it wasn't available a couple years ago), but putting 3 FV15HPs right behind me, as well as stacking some upfront. I ended up going a little different route, but think it would have been pretty darn killer!

There is just something about the fv15hp, its very articulate (like some of the sealed subs that have been talked about around here lately), as well as very tactile IMO, especially in the midbass and very low end.

You'll have to let us know what you think once you get it setup like your talking about .
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My 'Blacked Out' Home Theater | Tactile Response for BASS | BassEQ for Filtered Movies
1400cuft Sealed Room on Suspended Floor | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.7.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB | Eyes 6.5' to 120" 16:9 AT Seymour Screen | Oppo 203 | Xbox 1X | Apple TV4K | 6x 18" Sealed Subs w/3x VNF | Subwoofer Riser w/6x JBL-12s | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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