Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 171 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5101 of 5119 Old 07-26-2018, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
It is hard to describe but nothing has been more violent in my room.
And that is the way it should be!!!

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #5102 of 5119 Old 08-01-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
For some of the larger systems, there is almost no mic that could withstand the SPL, and neither could our ears.

Few can afford the aco pacific 170db capsules and pre-amps needed for such activities, the same kind of $2000+ mic rig's that data-bass uses, for one example.

[Bass: All I'm hearing are excuses here! ]

It's also nice for everyone to not have to smoke their speakers and subs just to see a number one position higher, or prove a point, or compare, or measure the longest distance of the yellow streaks in the snow, or whatever it IS that we use this thread FOR...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDTZ7iX4vTQ
^^^
[Insert super-edgy comment about "quiet scorned kids" and not being "at the very top of the ULF Score chart" here. ]

Something. Something.
Incoherent mumblings...
Now wait a second....no one told me about the “yellow streaks in snow” contest.
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post #5103 of 5119 Old 08-20-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
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And that is the way it should be!!!
Man! Haven't seen you post in a long time buddy! Hope everything is going great for you out in Japan.
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post #5104 of 5119 Old 08-23-2018, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Man! Haven't seen you post in a long time buddy! Hope everything is going great for you out in Japan.
Yeah, I lost the Home Theater in the big floods we had here. Luckily all the XXX drivers were saved and I am re-building every thing as we speak.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

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post #5105 of 5119 Old 08-23-2018, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
Yeah, I lost the Home Theater in the big floods we had here. Luckily all the XXX drivers were saved and I am re-building every thing as we speak.
Looking forward to your HT 2.0 build thread with upgraded 4K equipment list
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post #5106 of 5119 Old 09-25-2018, 06:41 AM
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Why did I have to come across this thread. It is going to take me forever to read through this and potentially upend what I have been trying to do.

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post #5107 of 5119 Old 10-31-2018, 05:16 AM
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So I decided to seal my port and listen to what these do in IB mode. I gues the crack in between my double doors create a port.

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post #5108 of 5119 Old 10-31-2018, 11:09 AM
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^^^^ Whoa that's crazy! ...does even more than what mine does when I open my door with my sealed subs. It definitely brings up the low end more opening the door on a sealed setup, at least it does on mine. I remember you saying the door open creates a port. This is with mine open about 6 inches. It give a little more the door open wide IIRC



You gonna leave the port sealed, or are you just playing around lol ? IIRC, your were about 5-8db over anyway from 10hz and under right, but now a good 13db or so in some of that area.
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post #5109 of 5119 Old 10-31-2018, 01:23 PM
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Yeah, I am hotter than the port which tells me the port was too large. I am keeping them sealed and now adding 9 dB on my LF adjust(10hz). This feels more violent than ever. I can't believe the bass coming from these two woofers. I was used to 8 in this wall. I have more low end than that. On paper my ULF score goes down, it reality it just works in my room. I am adding two more and keeping it sealed with the LT boost. The LT boost acts like a port except even more violent due to much more bass under the tune.
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post #5110 of 5119 Old 11-30-2018, 11:07 AM
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Hi everyone,


I'm glad I stumbled on to this thread as I could use some guidance. I've been reading backwards and am back to page 143, but felt it was time to chime in here before reading further back.



I am having difficulty figuring out exactly how to fill out my score card and am hoping someone will be kind enough to take their valuable time to help me out.


My room is 19.5' wide, 28' deep, and 7.5' tall. It's a basement dedicated theater with concrete floors.



I either have 12 subwoofers or 10 subwoofers, depending on whether you count the 4 SI 18d4's first gen I have in dual opposed cabinets as two subwoofers or 4, but there are 4 drivers in 2 cabinets, so I don't know how that counts or should be added up?


Even with all this subwoofage (started sealed and have now added 3 ported subs including the monster JTR 4000ulf sub to the arsenal) I am still extremely disappointed with my mid-bass slam.


Just so you know, in addition to the 4000ulf, I have the two very near-field subs right behind my MLP (A Behringer BF1200d 12" and a Turbosound ip15b 15") and they're both ported subs.


Additionally, I have 7 sealed subs. I have 4 SI HT18d4's in two dual opposed cabinets with power from an Inuke 6000dsp, plus two SI HST18's in 4 cu ft boxes each also powered with another Inuke 6000dsp. Additionally, I have 3 Reaction Audio Gamma 21's, 21" drivers in roughly 4.5 cu ft boxes and those have Speaker Power 2400 watt amps.


So I have a TON of subwoofage.


Attached is an unsmoothed (and smoothed version of the same graph) graph showing just how hot I have to run my subs (the 4000ulf is included in this graph as it was made with all subs running) to feel any type of chest thumping or slam of any kind. About 30dB hot!


I normally listen to music at about -10 to -15dB on the master volume and movies at -15dB or so with the subs 30dB hot, so 15dB over reference. I get plenty of chair shaking bass, but the mid bass is lacking.


I have to turn the very near field (the two high tuned ported subs) up a lot louder than the rest of the subs to get any chest slam/feeling whatsoever, but doing so (especially now that I have a 120hz crossover) makes everything sound way too bloated, boomy, overbearing, and messy.


I have a ton of bass traps and an excellent waterfall/spectrogram showing there is no ringing, even in the very low frequencies, beyond 600ms and most frequencies stop ringing by 400ms.


It's just that it has to be turned up so high to feel anything, and that's with the two el-cheapo subs I have right behind my chair. I can mute all the other subs and still get the chest slam from the two subs right behind my chair, so the other/main subs aren't really contributing at all to this chest slam/mid-bass I'm looking for. They just start to become noticeable (as far as slam goes) at 30dB hot!


So what in the world am I supposed to do? My frequency response is text book. My decay/waterfall is textbook. Yet I have to run the bass 30dB hot which is just way too much to sound good, in order to feel anything.


What do I do?


Thanks,


--J
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post #5111 of 5119 Old 11-30-2018, 11:56 AM
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^^^ Try a 80hz LPF on your nearfields

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post #5112 of 5119 Old 12-03-2018, 07:28 AM
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First, change your graph to have a 3-120hz range. Mid bass comes from 50-200hz so where is your crossover? If set to 80hz then all your subs are only producing 50-80hz and your speakers are handling the rest. Try setting your crossover to 200hz and let the subs hit the midbass. This is just to see if the midbass hits you better because other problems may arise like localization.

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post #5113 of 5119 Old 12-18-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post
have now added 3 ported subs including the monster JTR 4000ulf sub to the arsenal) I am still extremely disappointed with my mid-bass slam.

I have to turn the very near field (the two high tuned ported subs) up a lot louder than the rest of the subs to get any chest slam/feeling whatsoever, but doing so (especially now that I have a 120hz crossover) makes everything sound way too bloated, boomy, overbearing, and messy.

So what in the world am I supposed to do?
Have you set the distance delay for the nearfields so that they time-match with the LCR's and front subs? 10ms delay or whatnot. That might be making it sound boomy.

Beyond that, chestkick is 50-300hz.

1 Behringer 12 isn't anywhere near enough mid-bass. You need like 8 PA-460's + 4kW RMS to power those (or B&C 18-21's and even more power, if you want fancier drivers...)

It's also possible that your mains aren't keeping up in the 50-300hz range either...

Sounds like you want more mid-bass than ULF, so if you like 30db hot ULF, then you'll need 40-50db hot mid-bass. Unfortunately car and HT subs have high inductance and high cone mass, too high for efficient 50-300hz. That's where the array of large pro woofers come in.

It's also possible you are overloading the Behringer 12 trying to make it keep up with all of that ULF. The larger array will have less distortion and more SPL.

You may need to put the kickbins in the front corners so that the 50-300hz blends better with your LCR's and reduce the boominess, instead of eating it to the back of the head. Yeah I know the distance-law will mean you'll lose some SPL, but it is what it is. Just add even more woofers to compensate for the increased distance if you feel the need.
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post #5114 of 5119 Old 12-24-2018, 09:24 AM
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I’d maybe start by lowering the subs 15 db and turning the master volume up 15 db. You might just be so far out off balance that it’s messing with your senses. 30db hot on the subs is crazy!!
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post #5115 of 5119 Old 05-19-2019, 07:48 AM
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@jevansoh ,

There is nothing "textbook" about your post.

You didn't mention how you are addressing impulse response between that many subs, placed at different distances.
Mid-Bass impact with so many subs requires precision in setup for unique and proper time delays with various distances.
phase issues between different port tunes can also lead to modes and nulls that might be being masked by the strongest, or even closest subs frequency response. These nulls and modes might not affect your mic's particular position where you grabbed the sweep, but may really impact the sound throughout the room in various seats.
Adding 8 more subs to your 12 to try to fix your midbass issue is not the first step. Diagnosing what you have is the first step.

I suggest unhooking all your subs. Hooking up only the JTR 4000ULF, rerun auto EQ to set new distance, EQ, and SPL trim levels for just that single, very capable, JTR 4000ULF, and see what you think about just the single sub in regards to your overall sound and feel. I'll wager you'll like that better than the hodgepodge you have now -- even if the FR graph of the subwoofer bandpass doesn't look as 'textbook' perfect as what you have now.

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post #5116 of 5119 Old 05-20-2019, 06:59 AM
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So my ULF score is now zero! I had a flood this weekend as the changing of my landscape last year routed water to my theater instead of the pool! I warned them about that too. So now I have tear apart my baffle wall and pull the rug out. Maybe pull apart the seat risers as well. Of course that baffle wall is my subwoofer enclosure. My front towers were in the water as well, not sure if it will damage the wood, they are solid pine. It went up maybe 3 inches.

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post #5117 of 5119 Old 05-20-2019, 07:14 AM
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Your Home Theater ULF Score

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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
So my ULF score is now zero! I had a flood this weekend as the changing of my landscape last year routed water to my theater instead of the pool! I warned them about that too. So now I have tear apart my baffle wall and pull the rug out. Maybe pull apart the seat risers as well. Of course that baffle wall is my subwoofer enclosure. My front towers were in the water as well, not sure if it will damage the wood, they are solid pine. It went up maybe 3 inches.

Awww sorry, that’s terrible! Hopefully all the electrical and mechanical aspects of your system are Ok. I hope you’re not out of commission too long, but that sounds pretty bad.

I guess if there’s even a small upside, any theater modifications you really wanted to do?

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post #5118 of 5119 Old 05-20-2019, 08:25 AM
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Since I am not using the baffle wall as that, I will just treat the original wall(if it stays) and build sub boxes. I will add two more re-xxx18s as well. If I have to rip out the risers and walls, etc,, then I will have to start from the beginning again. Even my front row of seats are in the water. It is not that deep but might be enough to cause the wood to mildew or mold since this is the basement. If I do that then I will tear out even the ceilings and maybe redesign the whole theater. This time around I might just put 4-6 inch sound treatment on the concrete walls rather than building walls in front of it, who knows. I do know that 4 RE Audio XXX-18s with the LT in this room would be the most potent system ever in here, two come very close and are below 20hz.
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post #5119 of 5119 Old 05-20-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post
Hi everyone,


I'm glad I stumbled on to this thread as I could use some guidance....J
Yea man that is a whole ton of stuff just crammed together trying to all do the same thing in each their own different way. Not only will the ported subs mess with the sealed, but any DSP being applied before your own EQ will also shift the phase all over the place. You simply have way too much going on for starters, but it seems at least you are getting them to appear to play nicely. As Archaea already suggested, Impulse and delay between all those subs is paramount. With all the different tunings and stuff though I am not sure I even see a way you could conveniently even get them all to play nicely together. Currently owning a single ported subs married to an array of sealed subs, it's hard enough work as it is, and I am still considering getting rid of the sealed counterpart and just doubling up on the Skhorn.

I hate to even mention this, and I suggest you let us help you work with your system at least to the best of our ability to try and get you to a good place...but if all our efforts fail, I'd suggest you give a skhorn or two a try. Probably two as you seem to have a large appetite for bass in general. The Skhorn is already natively tuned and designed with a downward sloping response so the midbass you get from it is very potent....I hesitate to say extremely potent as your "Extreme" and my extreme are different. It does give the skhorn a unique signature if not dealt with but hey, you may love it right from the start. It does natively weigh the midbass more importantly than the super low stuff. I will say, aside from some room modes that would be tackled by a second Skhorn, it's obviously a good performer if I am almost willing to sell off 4 dual opposed 18's sealed cabs in lieu of a single skhorn.

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