Reaction Audio Subs - Page 155 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4224Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4621 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 05:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
question about sealed vs ported


i have had nothing but ported subs since i got into this hobby, the reason was mostly because i was dealing with a moderate size room which was open to the rest of the house, also i was building for about 70/30 in favor of HT over music.

now i am dealing with a much smaller completely sealed and dedicated theater/gaming/music room (still favoring movies) it has sparked an interest in sealed model subs... the room is about 14x18x8

i was told that i could seal my martys off and turn them to sealed units. if i did that then i would obviously be more interested in a gamma 21....

as of now i have no real intensions of doing this but i was looking for some input before i make a large purchase.

what would you say the pros and cons would be of sealed vs ported in a room of my size? are ported subs strictly more powerful around there port tune or are they more powerful from port tune and up? i understand the sealed units would most likely give me the most output from 12-14hz (this number is a guestimate) and down.

with all that said id like to say that i have been more than happy with my ported subs and would hate to change everything now and realize i liked the ported better in the first place, another thing i like about going the ported route is that if i ever moved or something and had to deal with putting my equipment in a large space i wouldn't have to face the decision of buying new (ported) subs again if the sealed couldn't fill the room

let me know your guys thoughts

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4622 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
edgebsl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Gulfport MS
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Your room is huge!!!

I think most people here would tell you that you need at least 2 Echo 18s or 2 Gamma 21s...
It also depends on your budget and expectations.
What some consider "not loud enough" some would consider "overkill" and vice versa.

Of course if you have a pretty good sized room it is a lot harder to get that "someone is standing on my chest" feeling out of just a pair of subs. It is a lot easier to get that in a smaller space. But not everyone is looking for that or ha the budget for it let alone WAF.

It is all relative. If someone is coming from a pair of Bic F12s then certainly going to a pair of Echo 15s in that same space is going to be a pretty dramatic improvement, even if that space is very large to begin with and we bass heads would expect to put much more in there.

I tend to always recommend getting more sub than you need but there are instances where budget and practicality affect that decision.
gkf15 likes this.

Jeremy
Reaction Audio Subwoofers

edgebsl is offline  
post #4623 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 06:55 PM
Senior Member
 
powerlifter405's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In a house
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
It also depends on your budget and expectations.
What some consider "not loud enough" some would consider "overkill" and vice versa.

Of course if you have a pretty good sized room it is a lot harder to get that "someone is standing on my chest" feeling out of just a pair of subs. It is a lot easier to get that in a smaller space. But not everyone is looking for that or ha the budget for it let alone WAF.

It is all relative. If someone is coming from a pair of Bic F12s then certainly going to a pair of Echo 15s in that same space is going to be a pretty dramatic improvement, even if that space is very large to begin with and we bass heads would expect to put much more in there.

I tend to always recommend getting more sub than you need but there are instances where budget and practicality affect that decision.
You hit on Several fine points Jeremy. BTW thanks for spending the time to answer all those questions I had and listening to my ideas.

I wanted sub's the wife was fine with our 5ch setup. I wanted morie depth and after dong my research down I had it to a few ID companies. I had already made calls and traded emails bit in the end I felt RA was going to give my what I needed. Thankfully I was able two squeeze dual G18s into my budget thanks to Jeremy. My wife tried to keep it at a single unit for budgetary constraints but alias Jeremy worked with me.

At the end of the day I believe it comes down to a few things and for some WAF or on my case budget was limited. More importantly I believe a well built product will perform admirably in spite of budget and WAF for those who aren't bass addicts or deaf.
I'm just thankful to have jumped on a good deal when it passed before me. I still get the eye rolls but it's too late for her to change her mind.

When these arrive I'll post some observations and how they respond to various locations in such a large space in both HT mode and music mode.

Last edited by powerlifter405; 01-06-2016 at 07:17 PM. Reason: my [email protected] spelling
powerlifter405 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4624 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Nodscene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm trying to decide between the Gamma 15 and HSU ULS15 MK2 but can't find any reviews for the Gamma. Like none. I've read about 40 pages or more of this thread and I've done some google searches but basically coming up empty.

Sadly I'm constrained by budget (even worse I live in Toronto Canada so exchange rate etc is killing me, basically double the price) and weight. Looking for something under 80lbs and after some searching and emails I've decided between those two subs. Actually RA wasn't in the running as I never got a response from my email initially, but someone was nice enough to pm me on RA's behalf. If someone is willing to do that for a company that is not theirs then I have no problem giving that company another chance. So I've gone from buying the HSU as it was my only option (not to mention it gets stellar reviews) to now having RA in the mix. All others who didn't return my email got booted off the list immediately haha. I figure that would at least narrow down my choices I'm about 50/50 music and movies and am more concerned about SQ than sheer output. Not to say that I don't want some decent volume out of it, which is why I'm springing for a 15" instead of a 12"

Currently I own an Angstrom i10 which has dual 10" and while it's musical it just doesn't go low enough, amongst other things. I may not even use it when I get a new sub and will try to recoup some money as I'm pretty far over my budget already. I'm also a bit concerned about the lead times as I am moving in March and need the sub before then, no matter what.

So yeah, I could really use some reviews of the Gamma 15 so I can make an informed decision about which sub to get. Obviously I can't do the in home trials so this is the only route I have left.

Thanks everyone and I'm really looking forward to hearing about that sub.

Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot
Nodscene is offline  
post #4625 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 08:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
edgebsl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Gulfport MS
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizki96 View Post
Hi jeremy

In terms of musicality; clean and tight bass, would you prefer echo or gamma with the same room feet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
question about sealed vs ported


i have had nothing but ported subs since i got into this hobby, the reason was mostly because i was dealing with a moderate size room which was open to the rest of the house, also i was building for about 70/30 in favor of HT over music.

now i am dealing with a much smaller completely sealed and dedicated theater/gaming/music room (still favoring movies) it has sparked an interest in sealed model subs... the room is about 14x18x8

i was told that i could seal my martys off and turn them to sealed units. if i did that then i would obviously be more interested in a gamma 21....

as of now i have no real intensions of doing this but i was looking for some input before i make a large purchase.

what would you say the pros and cons would be of sealed vs ported in a room of my size? are ported subs strictly more powerful around there port tune or are they more powerful from port tune and up? i understand the sealed units would most likely give me the most output from 12-14hz (this number is a guestimate) and down.

with all that said id like to say that i have been more than happy with my ported subs and would hate to change everything now and realize i liked the ported better in the first place, another thing i like about going the ported route is that if i ever moved or something and had to deal with putting my equipment in a large space i wouldn't have to face the decision of buying new (ported) subs again if the sealed couldn't fill the room

let me know your guys thoughts
Let me see if I can take a crack at these sealed vs ported questions in one shot.

As far as musicality goes, the old way of thinking was that ported boxes were boomy, sluggish and inferior.
In the last 10 or more years I think things have changed in both ID subs and subs sold by brick an mortar companies.
Much of this myth was born from older, poorly designed ported subs that may have been tuned too high and/or had poor infrasonic filtering and would show signs of distress during LFE soundtracks when DVD and 5.1 was first introduced.

A properly designed ported HT subwoofer will typically take little compromise in musicality over sealed subs. As I have seen others point out, there have been many subwoofer shootouts where many could not distinguish the two blind.

My recommendation usually

Comes down to 2 things:
What part of the frequency spectrum do you need the most headroom at?
How open is your listening space?

Usually the second question helps to answer the first.
If you have a larger space then a ported sub makes more sense because you will not have the room and boundary gain helping to augment the lowest octave.

I would say when you are debating between sealed and ported, the end goal should be great frequency response, headroom and extension. the old preconceived notions of "sealed=tight" and so forth should be considered least.

In regards to extension, sealed subs can get into single digit response. But a ported sub will often seem to have better extension
in application because it may have stronger response say in the 16-25hz range if it is tuned to 18 or 20hz.
Once you get below that range a sealed sub will eventually take the lead but you will need some room gain and multiple subwoofers to really get extension you can feel at frequencies as low as say - 7hz.

Those frequencies cannot be heard and only felt and as such it takes a lot more volume for us to detect their presence.
This is why a single 12 inch sealed sub that can play down to 10hz looks great on paper, but does not effectively deliver enough displacement for the listener to feel and detect 10hz to the level that it is effective.
gkf15 and newc33 like this.

Jeremy
Reaction Audio Subwoofers

edgebsl is offline  
post #4626 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 09:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
edgebsl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Gulfport MS
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 1183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodscene View Post
I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm trying to decide between the Gamma 15 and HSU ULS15 MK2 but can't find any reviews for the Gamma. Like none. I've read about 40 pages or more of this thread and I've done some google searches but basically coming up empty.

Sadly I'm constrained by budget (even worse I live in Toronto Canada so exchange rate etc is killing me, basically double the price) and weight. Looking for something under 80lbs and after some searching and emails I've decided between those two subs. Actually RA wasn't in the running as I never got a response from my email initially, but someone was nice enough to pm me on RA's behalf. If someone is willing to do that for a company that is not theirs then I have no problem giving that company another chance. So I've gone from buying the HSU as it was my only option (not to mention it gets stellar reviews) to now having RA in the mix. All others who didn't return my email got booted off the list immediately haha. I figure that would at least narrow down my choices I'm about 50/50 music and movies and am more concerned about SQ than sheer output. Not to say that I don't want some decent volume out of it, which is why I'm springing for a 15" instead of a 12"

Currently I own an Angstrom i10 which has dual 10" and while it's musical it just doesn't go low enough, amongst other things. I may not even use it when I get a new sub and will try to recoup some money as I'm pretty far over my budget already. I'm also a bit concerned about the lead times as I am moving in March and need the sub before then, no matter what.

So yeah, I could really use some reviews of the Gamma 15 so I can make an informed decision about which sub to get. Obviously I can't do the in home trials so this is the only route I have left.

Thanks everyone and I'm really looking forward to hearing about that sub.
There are a couple of posters in this thread that have Gamma 15s and I believe they have posted about them?
I'm not sure if they were labeled "This is my review" but give me a few and I will see if i can't find them for you.

Jeremy
Reaction Audio Subwoofers

edgebsl is offline  
post #4627 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 09:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
What will the ports tune on the echo 21 be?
newc33 is offline  
post #4628 of 6445 Old 01-06-2016, 11:07 PM
Member
 
rizki96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for your answer jeremy, show your competency and long experience in this route.

Lookig for your b stock of 2 unit echo 18 when people upgradig to 21
rizki96 is offline  
post #4629 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 07:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
countryWV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntington West Virginia
Posts: 1,849
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
question about sealed vs ported

i have had nothing but ported subs since i got into this hobby, the reason was mostly because i was dealing with a moderate size room which was open to the rest of the house, also i was building for about 70/30 in favor of HT over music.

now i am dealing with a much smaller completely sealed and dedicated theater/gaming/music room (still favoring movies) it has sparked an interest in sealed model subs... the room is about 14x18x8

let me know your guys thoughts
In a room that size a pair of Gamma 21s or Echo 21s should have overwhelming output and plenty of headroom to spare. I think getting the Martys to play nice with the others would be more trouble then its worth.

With a sealed room that size whichever choice you make will be impressive. Try the pair without the Martys for awhile. You may be able to sell the Martys and apply the $$$$ to some CX-8 surrounds.

My room is 20w x 24l x 7'6"h and sealed. I went with 3 x Gamma 21s b/c originally it was powered by the dual asp700 Ice power amp. Now that J was able to switch up to the SP-1 2400 torpedo amp I'm thinking the third one may be unnecessary but that will be decided after spending the proper amount of time thoroughly Pouring the coal to the trio.

What I'm looking forward to is periodically pairing my 212HTRs with the Gamma 21s and running them as a full range stereo pair.

Chris

Last edited by countryWV; 01-07-2016 at 11:24 AM.
countryWV is offline  
post #4630 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 08:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
In a room that size a pair of Gamma 21s or Echo 21s should have overwhelming output and plenty of headroom to spare. I think getting the Martys to play nice with the others would be more trouble then its worth.

With a sealed room that size whichever choice you make it will be impressive. Try the pair without the Martys for awhile. You may be able to sell the Martys and apply the $$$$ to some CX-8 surrounds.

My room is 20w x 24l x 7'6"h and sealed. I went with 3 x Gamma 21s b/c originally it was powered by the dual asp700 Ice power amp. Now that J was able to switch up to the SP-1 2400 torpedo amp I'm thinking the third one may be unnecessary but that will be decided after spending the proper amount of time thoroughly Pouring the coal to the trio.

What I'm looking forward to is periodically pairing my 212HTRs with the Gamma 21s and running them as a full range stereo pair.
Congrats on your upcoming Gamma21's, Chris! Didn't you have Submersives before? If so, I'm now REALLY excited to see what you think of the Gamma21 compared to the SubM's.
I had a Gamma218 and have compared it with the SubM multiple times in different rooms. The Gamma218 is nuts under 30hz, but that 40hz+ slam from the SubM is really something.
That SP2400 torpedo will help that Gamma21 a lot and it is looking like a great product so far!
gkf15 and countryWV like this.
lz7j is offline  
post #4631 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 08:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
What will the ports tune on the echo 21 be?
According to Jeremy, 18hz
lz7j is offline  
post #4632 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 10:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Nodscene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Thanks Chucky7 although that doesn't really answer any of my questions. As I mentioned, I have no concern in regards to the output as anything in this category is overkill

I have read that "review" although it doesn't really mention anything about SQ or much at all for that matter unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Hey, I am glad that you posted here before you ruled out Gamma 15 completely.

Here is one review by smellyfungus... https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post40108946

Gamma 15's predecessor, PS-15X was tested on data-bass. Gamma 15 is basically PX-15X with copper shortening rings for low distortion and inductance shorting ring and a more reliable amp that delivers more power cleaningly. You can read the test here... http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=113

Output wise, Gamma 15 will have 2~3 dB advantage over the ~$1000 sealed offerings from other companies so I think you will be more than happy with what it can do. If a sealed 15" is not good enough for you, you probably should go with a ported 15", sealed 18" or larger.

Since you live in Toronto, what a lot of people do is have the sub shipped to Buffalo and go pick it up to save on shipping and you get to enjoy free shipping both ways as well.

Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot
Nodscene is offline  
post #4633 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 12:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
countryWV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntington West Virginia
Posts: 1,849
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Congrats on your upcoming Gamma21's, Chris! Didn't you have Submersives before? If so, I'm now REALLY excited to see what you think of the Gamma21 compared to the SubM's.
I had a Gamma218 and have compared it with the SubM multiple times in different rooms. The Gamma218 is nuts under 30hz, but that 40hz+ slam from the SubM is really something.
That SP2400 torpedo will help that Gamma21 a lot and it is looking like a great product so far!
I had a pair of SubM HPs for about four Flawless years. It never made a bad sound and I loved every aspect of the Submersive, just wished it was bigger or I had more of them. What Mark just introduced with the F18 is genius. (both performance and marketing)

The Gamma 21 has so much potential and a great price I had to bite. It should have more output across the board and if the sound quality is even close to the Submersive I'll be happy. The amp is the same as the SubM only with the new controls. Hopefully the delay and boost/cut will allow me to avoid EQ to keep things simple.

I'm Excited to get these subs in my system to see what they can do. I'll definately post thoughts and impressions on the Gamma 21 ASA I have some.
chucky7, jbrown15, lz7j and 4 others like this.

Chris

Last edited by countryWV; 01-07-2016 at 04:00 PM.
countryWV is offline  
post #4634 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 01:57 PM
Member
 
smellyfungus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodscene View Post
Thanks Chucky7 although that doesn't really answer any of my questions. As I mentioned, I have no concern in regards to the output as anything in this category is overkill

I have read that "review" although it doesn't really mention anything about SQ or much at all for that matter unfortunately.
Picking subs is definitely super difficult and its hard for me to give a full on review without something to reference off of.

My subwoofer journey went from an Onkyo HTIB sub to a BIC H100 to HSU VTF-2 MK3 to now RA Gamma 15s. I think it's rare people try multiple brands of the same class subwoofer.

For me the best way I can judge if something was worth the upgrade is, does it sound better than before and does it do it at the levels I prefer to listen to.
In current room, the VTF-2 was adequate at moderate levels but I had that feeling that it was struggling at lower levels and wasn't playing cleaning in comparison to the bass my speakers put out.
When switching to the Gamma 15s the bass felt effortless, it became a game of seeing how far I can push them but they played cleanly at least to the point where I couldn't turn of the volume anymore.

The only thing that is not working for me in regards to the Gamma 15s that is not the subs fault itself is I did not get as much room gain as expected so below 30hz is kinda lacking.
My room is smaller than yours but opens to the rest of the house so I'm likely to switch to an Echo 18 (the footprint between the 15 and 18 were close so I went big so I can leave Jeremy alone).
I would say go as big as you can (both in size and price) so there are no regrets.


Subwoofer choice wise I also considered HSU vs RA. Although I didn't get a chance to listen to the ULS here's how it breaks down based on what I know of the HSU vs what I have in the Gamma.

Finish I knew HSU is one of the best with their velvet like finish. RA feels more like wood looks more like it vs HSU which almost looks and feels like its been dipped in some thick silky coating. I like both.

Amp I heard Bash has been hit or miss, my previous HSU hasn't had a trouble. I knew ICE was quite hyped, many subwoofer manufacturers use Speakerpower for their amps.

Woofer I didn't know much outside of the fact that they looked different.

Both have plenty of simple EQ adjustments so neither came off better than the other.


End of the day I like the pricing of RA, both subs were gonna be fairly similar give or take a DB or two advantage for RA.

In my phone conversations between the two companies, HSU was quite professional but didn't really seem interested in what works for me, just "you're interest in buying this? ok we have it stock". (I've read they have great customer service but I haven't needed them for anything outside of purchasing).
When I got the opportunity to deal with Jeremy he made sure I was buying the product that best suited me and has no hesitation dealing with me even though I've changed my mind many times since the first time I talked to him. That willingness to work with me even though he has a ton of other orders coming in really sold me. If the person who makes the product is that awesome, I feel like the product will reflect that.

So unfortunately a professional level review I cannot provide.

I can only say, the Gamma 15 gives nice clean, effortless output at the levels I prefer. I'd even say it's "tight".
I think any of the popular ID subwoofers will work, it's just who you personally like the best.
chucky7, jbrown15, gkf15 and 3 others like this.

Sony XBR75X850C, Anthem MRX720, KEF R500 (x2), KEF R200C, KEF R100 (x2), JTR Cap 118HT (Echo 18 1400w is a myth)
smellyfungus is offline  
post #4635 of 6445 Old 01-07-2016, 02:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Nodscene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. I'm also happy to hear that you have found something that you are happy with.

As much as HSU gets spectacular reviews, I have this sneaking suspicion that they just may not be right for me. There have been comments such as yours and some others that lead me to believe I may be happier with something else.

I won't lie and say I'm not a bit concerned with getting the Gamma 15 due to lack of reviews and such but so far it's still on my list. HSU is getting removed and I'm now waiting to hear back from Rythmic to see what they have to offer. The more I read about their subs the more I like them. That being said, it looks like they are more expensive as well which is the last thing I need haha.

Cheers and thanks.

Edit: I keep hearing great things about Jeremy and while I haven't talked to him I have liked a lot of his posts and how far he goes for each customer. So that's one of the reasons his sub is still in contention.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smellyfungus View Post
Picking subs is definitely super difficult and its hard for me to give a full on review without something to reference off of.

My subwoofer journey went from an Onkyo HTIB sub to a BIC H100 to HSU VTF-2 MK3 to now RA Gamma 15s. I think it's rare people try multiple brands of the same class subwoofer.

For me the best way I can judge if something was worth the upgrade is, does it sound better than before and does it do it at the levels I prefer to listen to.
In current room, the VTF-2 was adequate at moderate levels but I had that feeling that it was struggling at lower levels and wasn't playing cleaning in comparison to the bass my speakers put out.
When switching to the Gamma 15s the bass felt effortless, it became a game of seeing how far I can push them but they played cleanly at least to the point where I couldn't turn of the volume anymore.

The only thing that is not working for me in regards to the Gamma 15s that is not the subs fault itself is I did not get as much room gain as expected so below 30hz is kinda lacking.
My room is smaller than yours but opens to the rest of the house so I'm likely to switch to an Echo 18 (the footprint between the 15 and 18 were close so I went big so I can leave Jeremy alone).
I would say go as big as you can (both in size and price) so there are no regrets.


Subwoofer choice wise I also considered HSU vs RA. Although I didn't get a chance to listen to the ULS here's how it breaks down based on what I know of the HSU vs what I have in the Gamma.

Finish I knew HSU is one of the best with their velvet like finish. RA feels more like wood looks more like it vs HSU which almost looks and feels like its been dipped in some thick silky coating. I like both.

Amp I heard Bash has been hit or miss, my previous HSU hasn't had a trouble. I knew ICE was quite hyped, many subwoofer manufacturers use Speakerpower for their amps.

Woofer I didn't know much outside of the fact that they looked different.

Both have plenty of simple EQ adjustments so neither came off better than the other.


End of the day I like the pricing of RA, both subs were gonna be fairly similar give or take a DB or two advantage for RA.

In my phone conversations between the two companies, HSU was quite professional but didn't really seem interested in what works for me, just "you're interest in buying this? ok we have it stock". (I've read they have great customer service but I haven't needed them for anything outside of purchasing).
When I got the opportunity to deal with Jeremy he made sure I was buying the product that best suited me and has no hesitation dealing with me even though I've changed my mind many times since the first time I talked to him. That willingness to work with me even though he has a ton of other orders coming in really sold me. If the person who makes the product is that awesome, I feel like the product will reflect that.

So unfortunately a professional level review I cannot provide.

I can only say, the Gamma 15 gives nice clean, effortless output at the levels I prefer. I'd even say it's "tight".
I think any of the popular ID subwoofers will work, it's just who you personally like the best.
chucky7 and gkf15 like this.

Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot
Nodscene is offline  
post #4636 of 6445 Old 01-08-2016, 07:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
In a room that size a pair of Gamma 21s or Echo 21s should have overwhelming output and plenty of headroom to spare. I think getting the Martys to play nice with the others would be more trouble then its worth.

With a sealed room that size whichever choice you make will be impressive. Try the pair without the Martys for awhile. You may be able to sell the Martys and apply the $$$$ to some CX-8 surrounds.

My room is 20w x 24l x 7'6"h and sealed. I went with 3 x Gamma 21s b/c originally it was powered by the dual asp700 Ice power amp. Now that J was able to switch up to the SP-1 2400 torpedo amp I'm thinking the third one may be unnecessary but that will be decided after spending the proper amount of time thoroughly Pouring the coal to the trio.

What I'm looking forward to is periodically pairing my 212HTRs with the Gamma 21s and running them as a full range stereo pair.

why do you think it would just be more headache then its worth? the martys are pretty beastly and iv seen people on these forums claim they have paired things is even farther apart leages then what I'm dealing with.

i did finally get my fv15hps and martys to work together well. it took a bit but the only real issue i never figured out was that i had a null at 50hz when the fvs were on. all i did was use the PEQ and minimize the fvs output at 50hz and the null went away. i was also gaining about 2dbs almost everywhere when the fvs were on.

i defiantly the martys are worth a shot
gkf15 and countryWV like this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4637 of 6445 Old 01-08-2016, 11:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,034
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1779 Post(s)
Liked: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Well, if you are looking for sound qualities like tight, fast, forward or relaxed, technically, they are not the qualities that good subs aim for.

Two of the most important things in regards to sub qualities are output and extension. So as long as you get a sub that plays loud enough, deep enough and clean enough, the sub should perform better than another that does not play that loud, that deep and that clean.

You're joking right? Good subs don't aim for good sound quality? That's hilarious! I can guarantee you Jeremy, Tom, Jeff, Mark and the owners of every other sub company would highly disagree. If no one cares about sound quality, then why do all of the get togethers rate subs for sound quality, instead of just measuring SPL and low frequency extension capabilities? "Good" subs cover all aspects, good sound quality, low extension and lots of good clean output.

Also, forward and relaxed are terms used to describe the mid and high end, not subs.
zeus33 is offline  
post #4638 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 04:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,152
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
You're joking right? Good subs don't aim for good sound quality? That's hilarious! I can guarantee you Jeremy, Tom, Jeff, Mark and the owners of every other sub company would highly disagree. If no one cares about sound quality, then why do all of the get togethers rate subs for sound quality, instead of just measuring SPL and low frequency extension capabilities? "Good" subs cover all aspects, good sound quality, low extension and lots of good clean output.

Also, forward and relaxed are terms used to describe the mid and high end, not subs.
What he means is that these are subjective terms that don't have any factual or measurable characteristics. Like, tight, crisp, accurate, musical, or other nonsensical audiophile buzz words. The point he is trying to make is that well designed subs that have a good frequency response, good output and low distortion will have good sound quality. After all, once you have a fairly well designed sub(i.e. just about any sub from the popular ID companies), sound quality is determined entirely by the room and how the subs are setup.

You can take the best sub made, place it poorly, integrate it poorly with the system, and it will sound terrible. Does that mean the sub has poor sound quality? The sub likely won't sound "tight, crisp, accurate, fast, musical" or whatever other vague, non factual subjective adjective one might want to use who does not have a good understanding of subwoofers.

IMO, the current lineup of subs from Hsu, SVS, PSA, RA, Rythmik, Seaton, JTR and perhaps others will all sound fantastic when setup properly in room. The differentiating factor between these subs will be clean output capability(SPL) and extension. This is why for those that have some knowledge, facts(output, extension etc) rather than made up audiophile adjectives that simply describe a subs interaction with ones room and how well they are set up in the system, are what matters when it comes to choosing a sub.
chucky7, lz7j, countryWV and 1 others like this.
bear123 is offline  
post #4639 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 05:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
countryWV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Huntington West Virginia
Posts: 1,849
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
why do you think it would just be more headache then its worth? the martys are pretty beastly and iv seen people on these forums claim they have paired things is even farther apart leages then what I'm dealing with.

i did finally get my fv15hps and martys to work together well. it took a bit but the only real issue i never figured out was that i had a null at 50hz when the fvs were on. all i did was use the PEQ and minimize the fvs output at 50hz and the null went away. i was also gaining about 2dbs almost everywhere when the fvs were on.

i defiantly the martys are worth a shot
It's definitely worth trying. With the proper amount of time and effort I'm sure you will have them playing together well. What I wanted to point out is that you are moving from a bigger open room to a smaller sealed one.

A room 14x18x8 and Sealed is a great room to control and work with. A pair of Echo 21s setup properly should be overwhelming when you add in room gain. You may try just the E21s by themselves for a bit till you know exactly what they can do and how they perform in your sealed room. After that add in the Martys to see what a difference they make together. That way you'll know first hand what the Martys add.

Chris
countryWV is offline  
post #4640 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 10:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ahblaza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Steeler Country
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2449 Post(s)
Liked: 3387
@Bear , I agree with everything you said, the terms used to describe how a sub sounds are just that, terms. Driver, box and amp integration are in my opinion very important aspects of sub SQ. Especially if using the ICE amp modules, this is strictly the ID companies responsibility to optimize and configure the parameters of the DSP functions. This is accomplished with vigorous long listening and measuring sessions changing DSP front ends until you are satisfied with both the measured response and actual listening sessions.

This takes time and previous experience with amplifier technology going back to analog, digital and now the SP DSP modules, which I believe are the best of the best.

I totally agree that room and placement and integration into your system to achieve a good FR is most important, but most ID subs sound good, that I have a hard time digesting. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
Mark Seaton, smurraybhm and gkf15 like this.
ahblaza is offline  
post #4641 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 11:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
It's definitely worth trying. With the proper amount of time and effort I'm sure you will have them playing together well. What I wanted to point out is that you are moving from a bigger open room to a smaller sealed one.

A room 14x18x8 and Sealed is a great room to control and work with. A pair of Echo 21s setup properly should be overwhelming when you add in room gain. You may try just the E21s by themselves for a bit till you know exactly what they can do and how they perform in your sealed room. After that add in the Martys to see what a difference they make together. That way you'll know first hand what the Martys add.
ya know that probably is a good idea and i would be kinda fun and experimental at the same time. i think ill do just what you said. i will start with just the 21s and see how good i can get them in terms of both output and quality. i will then come in and add the 18 to the scenario and see if i get get the sound and or output and frequency response to be better.

heck just for i might do a single run with the martys as well just so i can post a good comparison of the 2. after all i would be the first comparison of the 2 anyone has ever done and I'm sure ppl would be interested in reading about it as well
countryWV likes this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4642 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 05:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
ya know that probably is a good idea and i would be kinda fun and experimental at the same time. i think ill do just what you said. i will start with just the 21s and see how good i can get them in terms of both output and quality. i will then come in and add the 18 to the scenario and see if i get get the sound and or output and frequency response to be better.

heck just for i might do a single run with the martys as well just so i can post a good comparison of the 2. after all i would be the first comparison of the 2 anyone has ever done and I'm sure ppl would be interested in reading about it as well
Have you done any compression sweeps with your Marty's yet? You should do a comparison between them and the Echo21's to see what kind of gains you get.

Here's mine with only 2 vertical Marty's with the HST-18's and the cheapo inuke6000dsp.
gkf15 likes this.
lz7j is offline  
post #4643 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 06:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
Have you done any compression sweeps with your Marty's yet? You should do a comparison between them and the Echo21's to see what kind of gains you get.

Here's mine with only 2 vertical Marty's with the HST-18's and the cheapo inuke6000dsp.
no i have not. i really haven't done any serious measurements yet. all i have done is odyssey and some test tones with a spl meter down low.

i do have a an omnimic but i haven't even messed with it yet. i just didn't wanna do a bunch of calibrating and then switch gear and do it again.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4644 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 06:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Player3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Might as well throw my 2 cents in here as well. I would argue that not all subs sound the same even when operating in their set parameters... I don't disagree that most ID subs will all sound pretty good when properly set up and used within their limits, but I don't think it would be fair to say that simply because a sub has greater extension and more output capabilities that it will therefore sound better. Between the SVS PB1000, PB2000, HSU VTF-15, Atlantic Technology 422SB, RA PS-215X, RA Echo XL 18, and Rythmik F12... they did sound different to me, some I liked better than others. Now I didn't get to hear them all in the same room unfortunately, that is true. (I heard the PB1000, PB2000, 422SB, PS-215X in the same room)
But honestly I think it can be helpful to hear subs in different rooms too.. for example, no matter where I've heard that 422SB(I've placed it in 4 different rooms), it still has a quality about the sound that I like. Just like you would describe a speaker, there's certain nuances you can appreciate. And just because it's subjective as to what one prefers over the other, doesn't make it insignificant. I like to take into consideration both measurements and people's descriptions of the sound when researching products. Going with descriptions alone is definitely a risky venture.. people still use all kinds of positive terminology to describe Bose speakers and the BIC PL-200( http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=47&mset=45 )...
ahblaza likes this.

Emotiva XMC-1 and Emotiva XPR-5
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL
Atlantic Technology SR2200 Surrounds
2 x Reaction Audio Echo 18 XL
Panasonic 65" ZT60
Oppo BDP-105
Player3 is offline  
post #4645 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 07:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
alright guys so i was upstairs tonight doing some minor recalibration now that my fvs are gone. found myself wanting to smash my inuke because i didn't have a computer to get the advanced settings and couldn't do any EQing or anything. then i just got all mad because it wasn't sounding right and audyssy keeps messing things up. idk i just couldn't get it to sound right and it was really frustrating me.

I'm actually thinking about getting rid of the martys... i hate dealing with the inuke and i hate how noisy it is. also i do feel a very little bit of vibration in my boxes when the subs are on which leaves me thinking i should have braced it a little better and this also might affect my sound quality a little.

right now I'm just thinking the only way to get everything perfect is to have matching woofers all around... i think this is the route I'm going to take...

i plan on selling the the inuke and the uxl18s as I'm sure i could sell both pretty quick....


SO WHAT DOES EVERYONE VOTE I DO??

option 1) buy the dual echo 21s
option 2)buy dual gamma 21s
IF I FEEL LIKE I NEED MORE OR WANT BETTER FREQ RESPONSE
option 3) buy 4 echo 21s
option 4) buy 4 gamma 21s


my thoughts....

echo pros- 1)plenty of power incase i ever move or am forced to put my system back downstairs (both unlikely)
2)i love ported subs, love the air coming out the port (i know i just think its sweet...) love that power around port tune
3)i have owned nothing but ported subs, i know for a fact i like the sound and would no doubt be happy staying ported

echo cons 1) lacks that single digit output i want to experience
2) might leave me wondering what I'm missing with the true ultra low content.


Gamma pros 1) sound quality (although subjective sealed subs are the go to choice for music)
2) unmatched ULF power and experience
3) my room i small and sealed making a perfect room for these babies

gamma cons 1) i don't feel sealed subs are quiet as versatile as far as room size. if i went back to a larger room for any reason they may leaving wish i went ECHO
2) dont look as cool as there big ported brother
3) iv never owned sealed before and it makes me lean towards the sure thing which for me is a ported box
gkf15 likes this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4646 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 07:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Player3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
alright guys so i was upstairs tonight doing some minor recalibration now that my fvs are gone. found myself wanting to smash my inuke because i didn't have a computer to get the advanced settings and couldn't do any EQing or anything. then i just got all mad because it wasn't sounding right and audyssy keeps messing things up. idk i just couldn't get it to sound right and it was really frustrating me.

I'm actually thinking about getting rid of the martys... i hate dealing with the inuke and i hate how noisy it is. also i do feel a very little bit of vibration in my boxes when the subs are on which leaves me thinking i should have braced it a little better and this also might affect my sound quality a little.

right now I'm just thinking the only way to get everything perfect is to have matching woofers all around... i think this is the route I'm going to take...

i plan on selling the the inuke and the uxl18s as I'm sure i could sell both pretty quick....


SO WHAT DOES EVERYONE VOTE I DO??

option 1) buy the dual echo 21s
option 2)buy dual gamma 21s
IF I FEEL LIKE I NEED MORE OR WANT BETTER FREQ RESPONSE
option 3) buy 4 echo 21s
option 4) buy 4 gamma 21s


my thoughts....

echo pros- 1)plenty of power incase i ever move or am forced to put my system back downstairs (both unlikely)
2)i love ported subs, love the air coming out the port (i know i just think its sweet...) love that power around port tune
3)i have owned nothing but ported subs, i know for a fact i like the sound and would no doubt be happy staying ported

echo cons 1) lacks that single digit output i want to experience
2) might leave me wondering what I'm missing with the true ultra low content.


Gamma pros 1) sound quality (although subjective sealed subs are the go to choice for music)
2) unmatched ULF power and experience
3) my room i small and sealed making a perfect room for these babies

gamma cons 1) i don't feel sealed subs are quiet as versatile as far as room size. if i went back to a larger room for any reason they may leaving wish i went ECHO
2) dont look as cool as there big ported brother
3) iv never owned sealed before and it makes me lean towards the sure thing which for me is a ported box
No question I'd pick the Gammas in that situation. With that size of room... my goodness. ULF would be INSANE. (I also still ever so slightly prefer sealed to ported... maybe it's in my head but that's just me) Enjoy sir, enjoy!

EDIT: one other thought, with that size of room it might help that the gammas are a bit smaller too
ahblaza likes this.

Emotiva XMC-1 and Emotiva XPR-5
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower and Horizon with RAAL
Atlantic Technology SR2200 Surrounds
2 x Reaction Audio Echo 18 XL
Panasonic 65" ZT60
Oppo BDP-105
Player3 is offline  
post #4647 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
No question I'd pick the Gammas in that situation. With that size of room... my goodness. ULF would be INSANE. (I also still ever so slightly prefer sealed to ported... maybe it's in my head but that's just me) Enjoy sir, enjoy!

EDIT: one other thought, with that size of room it might help that the gammas are a bit smaller too
thanks for your input. idk what it is about me that likes ported soooo much but I'm really starting to consider sealed...
gkf15 likes this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4648 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 07:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
i have a feeling many will lean me towards sealed in this situation lol
gkf15 likes this.

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4649 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 07:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
newc33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: lasalle-peru illinois
Posts: 2,834
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked: 1771
so is there limiters on sealed subs? i assume there is but just with no HP filter....?

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
Funk audio 12.2 HP mains powered by/funk audio 6x500 watt amp
newc33 is offline  
post #4650 of 6445 Old 01-09-2016, 08:12 PM
Member
 
man's's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
I had a pair of SubM HPs for about four Flawless years. It never made a bad sound and I loved every aspect of the Submersive, just wished it was bigger or I had more of them. What Mark just introduced with the F18 is genius. (both performance and marketing)

The Gamma 21 has so much potential and a great price I had to bite. It should have more output across the board and if the sound quality is even close to the Submersive I'll be happy. The amp is the same as the SubM only with the new controls. Hopefully the delay and boost/cut will allow me to avoid EQ to keep things simple.

I'm Excited to get these subs in my system to see what they can do. I'll definately post thoughts and impressions on the Gamma 21 ASA I have some.
Patiently waiting for your report sir..

Been using svs pb13u for almost 5 years,now its time to try sealed.

I'm thinking of either subM or F18,but if u saying that gamma 21 is better or similar in sq i will follow your route..
gkf15 and countryWV like this.
man's is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off