Reaction Audio Subs - Page 213 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6361 of 6445 Old 10-09-2016, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post
Maybe we are talking about two different used sales of the cx-10. Another member (shout out to AJ) bought my cx-10's and reported back that he is very happy, they sounded great and came well packed etc.

He posted this I my current classified ad:



Don't mean to over do it, but wanted to be clear the sale it seems you were referring to was not my sale. My mistake for assuming in your first post, you were talking about my ad (I hadn't seen another ad for the cx-10's). Sorry for the misunderstanding.
No ad in general. I was just saying that Jeremy's speakers were like any other's in that there wasn't really any warranty behind them.
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post #6362 of 6445 Old 10-10-2016, 04:47 PM
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I am typing up a review from start to finish about purchasing these Axis speakers from Jeremy on Facebook. It will include the entire process and I will say that a majority of the process has been smooth and I do not feel like I am being treated poorly by Jeremy. I do not want to finish it until the other speaker is working as intended, as that will only be fair for Jeremy.



FAIR: Will you be fair to the folks reading your review of the Axis speakers on FB, saying you heard no discernible difference between an assembled speaker with drivers intact and an open cabinet speaker with no damping (insulation). No one is accusing Jeremy of treating you poorly. Start to finish, you have the start part and hopefully soon the finish. From what you say why wait till you get the new crossover as both speakers sound they same to you with and without a cabinet, the new XO isn't going to change anything.

Revealing everything you've said so far would be FAIR to me if I was reading your review. Another question, will you be posting your review here on AVS or only FB? The sole responsibility of Reaction Audio was to assemble the speakers and insure they worked prior to shipping. I could be wrong but I believe you're the first person to actually purchase and take delivery of said product. I just wonder if these are the same speakers and containers that were shipped to the first buyer who refused shipment and sent back and then shipped back to you. The back and forth shipping may have caused the XO to break but was the speaker in question ever QC'd prior to shipping to you, if so the faulty (damaged) XO could have been detected and fixed, just wondering...........

I'm not an ID speaker manufacturer but if I were I would sell these Axis speakers as a kit then I would have nobody to blame but myself for their assembly.........

I have not seen one ported speaker without some form of damping material and I've seen quite a few (guts) inside the boxes (cabs). Mounting a crossover is in my opinion a very critical part of assembly, obviously much time and thought went into the design and assembly of the Axis XO, why not treat it accordingly with a secure and vibration free mounting method. That's what separates ID speaker companies from each other, the attention to small details that are often over looked just because it's not seen. Before even listening to a new speaker purchase I take a look inside the cabinet, that tells me a lot, if satisfied then a quick FR sweep and if I like what I see then onto some listening, another over looked QC issue, the ears test. There are many reputable companies out there that do just that "listen" and then deliver product in a timely and efficient manner.

I'd like to know how RA can legally continue to sell audio products, very curious about this and what you hope to accomplish with this review on FB, unless of course that's RA's retail outlet now..........


If this had been done with RA speakers a long time ago maybe a lot of heartache and pain could have been avoided as could have lots of money lost and folks wouldn't be left holding the bag with nowhere to turn for refunds or warranty claims.

Here's a few DIY "PORTED" and sealed speaker cabs and an ID company that use denim and other damping material for a specific reason, it's not there for looks. Have a nice day and looking forward to your review...





That's what I showed people when I bought that speaker from an ID company, nothing to hide and helped others to know what they were getting before buying.



You said you like images when I make comments so here are some. Good luck with your endeavors.


Cheers Jeffrey
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post #6363 of 6445 Old 10-10-2016, 07:23 PM
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Hey Jeff,

I am going to attempt to consolidate some of our talking points so that we can have a more concise discussion without writing a dissertation every night.

1) My review will be posted in the Official Reaction Audio Thread. Jeremy may decide to put it on the Facebook page but I will not be posting it there myself.

2) I mentioned in the other thread (Official Reaction Audio Thread) that I could definitely tell a difference when the cab was open while I was testing out the crossover. When I sealed the cab back up with the driver without insulation I could tell no difference when using them as surround speakers when compared to the other speaker that has denim insulation. I will be placing the insulation back in the speakers after I install the new crossover.

3) These are the two Axis 10s that someone ordered and did not accept delivery. Jeremy offered to take them apart to inspect and repackage them but I told him not to bother and to send them to me right away, so this could all be partly my fault. I knew what I was getting into with a private sale like this and I do consider myself fortunate that he was able to find another crossover for me.

4) I am not sure my review will be able to meet the expectations of some people on these forums as I do not own any equipment to perform a FR test, but I will give a few brief impressions on how they sound as surround speakers and how they integrate into the rest of my system. You are correct that I could just write the review now but I would prefer to wait until everything is up to my standards and after I have watched a few movies that actually utilize surround sound.

5) I am not sure about the legalities of him selling his products on Facebook but I contacted him as a private buyer so I took all the risk. I don't think it is against the law to buy something like that, I've done it before with custom jewelry and furniture (from Facebook).

Thank you for the photos, the insulation looks similar but a white color and it was on the 3 sides of the cab minus the top and bottom.
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post #6364 of 6445 Old 10-10-2016, 07:41 PM
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@worm , sounds good, I think using them as mains would also be beneficial as well, you could get a better idea how these speakers perform as a stereo pair, some folks only have room for something like the 10s as L&Rs. Either way do what you have to and get them ready for the evaluation. You don't need any fancy words or measurement gear at this point, just a genuine honest impression of what you're hearing, let your ears do the talking. That's all people want to know and I promise no more dissertations
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post #6365 of 6445 Old 11-17-2016, 05:05 PM
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I haven't heard any updates regarding Reaction Audio subs lately. Have the issues been sorted out? Are people finally getting their refunds or subwoofers?
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post #6366 of 6445 Old 11-17-2016, 07:54 PM
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May be some. Us overseas guys not.

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post #6367 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 05:37 AM
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Ha. I just searched for this thread yesterday but didn't get around to actually posting. I wonder how the restructuring is going.
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post #6368 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 10:20 AM
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May be some. Us overseas guys not.

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That stinks… sorry to hear that Sid.
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post #6369 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 07:42 PM
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Is reaction audio still in business? I haven't been on the forum in 4 months and things are a little confusing. Web page is down and i don't have facebook

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post #6370 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 07:58 PM
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Is reaction audio still in business? I haven't been on the forum in 4 months and things are a little confusing. Web page is down and i don't have facebook
Been gone, no goodbyes, nothing. Has some items trying to sell from Face Book, maybe that's down as well, haven't checked, not worth the trouble.
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post #6371 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 08:01 PM
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@Warmacblu any updates on the replacement crossover you were supposed to get from Jeremy or any impressions of the Axis 10s............???? I thought you'd have a review up by now.
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post #6372 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 08:12 PM
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Wow glad I went with psa rather than the gamma 24. Thanks jeremy for lieing and telling me everything is all good. Wait till u guys see the ****ty response of my gammas compared to the s3600is
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post #6373 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 08:14 PM
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The 3600 smokes the gamma 21 in sound sound quality. I have graphs to prove it. Pretty disappointed..........

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s rear surround
Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #6374 of 6445 Old 11-18-2016, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Wow glad I went with psa rather than the gamma 24. Thanks jeremy for lieing and telling me everything is all good. Wait till u guys see the ****ty response of my gammas compared to the s3600is
He recently (several months ago?) was advertising a couple custom 24s for sale via Facebook. We're these your custom drivers you and him were talking about? Or did you have a typo?

As far as surface area and our prediction, most voted for the s3600s

Also, if you wanted assembled 24s, check out Deep Sea Sound. They use Stereo Integrity drivers.

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post #6375 of 6445 Old 11-19-2016, 05:19 AM
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The 3600 smokes the gamma 21 in sound sound quality. I have graphs to prove it. Pretty disappointed..........
Maybe you can get the DSPs of the G21s redone? Or get a mini DSP to even them out yourself? The SP1-2400 amps are definitely superior and should be able to deliver great sound quality. Maybe the Pierce 21 is not best suited for small sealed enclosures?
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post #6376 of 6445 Old 11-19-2016, 08:55 AM
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Maybe you can get the DSPs of the G21s redone? Or get a mini DSP to even them out yourself? The SP1-2400 amps are definitely superior and should be able to deliver great sound quality. Maybe the Pierce 21 is not best suited for small sealed enclosures?
I am sure its lack of dsp tuning... As it has been mentioned before, all RA subs were basically diy kits with quality components already pre assembled. It's up to the end user to "tune them". Some think that room correction will "tune" the sub but that is not the correct approach. A quality sub from JTR, PSA, or Seaton, will be precisely tuned to extract as much performance and sound quality as possible. RA tried pulling the wool over folks eyes by offering very high quality components for minimal prices, but even the best parts will not perform to their potential if they are not optimized...and this applies to many things in life. Same for cars...You can throw the best parts on a Corvette Z06 but if you do not know how or have somebody that knows how to "tune" the car to optimize the changes, you leave a lot of untapped performance on on the table.
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post #6377 of 6445 Old 11-19-2016, 04:09 PM
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+1 ^

So very true.
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post #6378 of 6445 Old 11-19-2016, 08:07 PM
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The 3600 smokes the gamma 21 in sound sound quality. I have graphs to prove it. Pretty disappointed..........
I so sorry that you had to find out the hard way like everyone else who purchased anything from RA, you won't believe what you've missed in the last four months, go back and read the horror stories from this thread and look at the photos posted. At least you have the S3600s to compare with the G21s, most folks didn't even realize how bad their speakers and subs measured until Nikko did some FR sweeps and took a look inside the boxes. All it took for you was to put the G21s along side the S3600s and I'm sure it became apparent what subs sounded better and then the measured FR told the tale.

One person bought a pair of Axis 10s from J on Facebook and when he got them he heard noises inside the box and opened it up to find the XO in pieces, that was RA's attempt at making things right, ,people still actually believed he would right the ship, well the ship was never actually afloat. I'm sorry @newc33 , seriously.
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post #6379 of 6445 Old 11-19-2016, 08:12 PM
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Wow glad I went with psa rather than the gamma 24. Thanks jeremy for lieing and telling me everything is all good. Wait till u guys see the ****ty response of my gammas compared to the s3600is
Please post them, I'll show you some of my graphs of the V1800s..............since this a dead thread it wouldn't be improper to do. Thanks
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post #6380 of 6445 Old 11-20-2016, 09:22 PM
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Please post them, I'll show you some of my graphs of the V1800s..............since this a dead thread it wouldn't be improper to do. Thanks


I agree, post them up and let's see what is happening. Not sure the v1800 graphs are necessary, but a comparison of gamma 21 and s3600i seems perfectly valid to me since they were competitors by design (sealed) and price.


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post #6381 of 6445 Old 11-20-2016, 10:31 PM
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Gamma21

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Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #6382 of 6445 Old 11-20-2016, 10:38 PM
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S3600i

Both were in the exact same location

1600 cubic foot sealed room! Samsung 8500 curved 4k
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Quad PSA T18s!!!!!!
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post #6383 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:18 AM
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@Warmacblu any updates on the replacement crossover you were supposed to get from Jeremy or any impressions of the Axis 10s............???? I thought you'd have a review up by now.
Hey, good morning Jeff. I have not received the replacement crossover from Jeremy but I went ahead and secured the damaged one to the cabinet, glued the insulation back in place nicely and tested them out for a few hours. I am not going to write up a formal review but I will say that they sound great to me. I tested them side by side with my CX-15Ts and they kept up nicely. The 15Ts produced a bit more bass but that is to be expected. The imaging was spot on and the highs were nice and crisp. The mids were not as crunchy as I would like but I blame that on my room without any treatments as it is an open floor plan into a kitchen and bedroom with 3 bay windows and tile floor with no carpeting. Funny enough, I will be using them as computer speakers in a few days when my small Dayton amplifier arrives. They will completely decimate my old crappy Logitech speakers so it's a win in my book. The construction and consistency is a bit off and not up to par with other ID speakers companies. I feel like he was rushing to get them out or the person he hired to put them together did not care about his/her job. I put them back together in my own way and I feel like I did a good job.
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post #6384 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:23 AM
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Please post them, I'll show you some of my graphs of the V1800s..............since this a dead thread it wouldn't be improper to do. Thanks
Graphs posted... those are obviously natural response in my room. Mic was about 2 inches from the woofer.

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post #6385 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:29 AM
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Gamma21
validated...no dsp shaping done at all.
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post #6386 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:59 AM
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validated...no dsp shaping done at all.
It really is unfortunate. I'll bet there's lots of untapped potential in that driver and amp. At the very least, a linkwintz transform should have been employed and a couple of very simple peq to cut the hump.
That literally took me an hour to do using a minidsp 2x4, half of that time was used to drag my 300lb+ DIY box outdoors and setup.

On the upside, @newc33 can always get a 2x4 balanced and quickly learn how to apply proper DSP. If it wasn't for the poorly designed products I received from RA, I would have never bothered to learn what I know now.
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post #6387 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 12:46 PM
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Gamma21
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
validated...no dsp shaping done at all.
but it's a 21"!... and a big amp!... and look at that surround!... and fancy frame!

The reality is that AVS and internet direct customers in general have been spoiled by many examples over many years of good engineering practice. So much so that you couldn't fathom a company jumping in to offer up subwoofers for sale without meeting a reasonable level of technical proficiency. I don't think the result was as much a conscious intent to mislead, but more a case of not knowing what you don't know (see Dunning-Kruger Effect). I would even hazard a guess that there was the intent of some form of response correction, and a complete lack of QC process and in depth knowledge let this get out the door with the wrong DSP setting or just default programming. Possibly you can check with Docethic or Brian at SpeakerPower to see if they ever got an intended EQ setting for the sub as he was the one who got the pair of subs without amps. If SpeakerPower ever got a more appropriate DSP setting from Reaction, you could potentially ship them the amp for re-programming. One last question, what was the LF Adjust knob set to? If at 12 oclock, did you try at maximum?

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post #6388 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 05:40 PM
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I don't think the result was as much a conscious intent to mislead, but more a case of not knowing what you don't know (see Dunning-Kruger Effect). I would even hazard a guess that there was the intent of some form of response correction, and a complete lack of QC process and in depth knowledge let this get out the door with the wrong DSP setting or just default programming. Possibly you can check with Docethic or Brian at SpeakerPower to see if they ever got an intended EQ setting for the sub as he was the one who got the pair of subs without amps. If SpeakerPower ever got a more appropriate DSP setting from Reaction, you could potentially ship them the amp for re-programming. One last question, what was the LF Adjust knob set to? If at 12 oclock, did you try at maximum?
Thanks Mark for stating what I was thinking but much more concise than what I would have come up with! I am not sure if Brian still has the file, but he did encourage me to share my RA solution experience with others so he is open and willing to help. I did wait till Jeremy sent Brian the file, so I do believe my amp has the intended DSP on it I don't know what the DSP program entailed and I have not measured my in room response. My room correction in my AVR did change the response quite a bit so there may have been a hump like yours, but it also changed the sound of my XV15se just as much, so I believe it's just my room.

I was surprised to see you felt the SQ was significantly superior in the S3600 as my experience was the opposite. Now it's not a fair comparison of the XV15se to the G21, and the S3600 is prob leaps and bounds better than the XV, but I been very very impressed with the XV. Once I moved it from a medium sized room to a very small room it blew me away with it's ability to pressurize the room but its lacked the tactile punch of the 18 it replaced. I was worried that the G21 would be a sledge hammer in comparison but lack the finesse, and its been the opposite. Maybe the S3600 would be that much better, and I am tempted by the great sale price of the S1800 to add one to the mix for curiosity sake. I was expecting the 21" to be a good performer but its ability to blend with my mains and add detail blew me away, which I attributed to the control of the SP1-4000. I have not come close to the limits of the subs, so I can't comment on their performance there. My ceiling has started to crack already. I was pushing the XV too hard tho with the same material so I was feeling bad for the poor guy.

Newc33, I would definitely take the time to figure out the DSP situation cause those SP1-2400 amps are where the majority of your money went and are definitely worth hanging onto.
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post #6389 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:02 PM
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Thanks Mark for stating what I was thinking but much more concise than what I would have come up with! I am not sure if Brian still has the file, but he did encourage me to share my RA solution experience with others so he is open and willing to help. I did wait till Jeremy sent Brian the file, so I do believe my amp has the intended DSP on it I don't know what the DSP program entailed and I have not measured my in room response. My room correction in my AVR did change the response quite a bit so there may have been a hump like yours, but it also changed the sound of my XV15se just as much, so I believe it's just my room.

I was surprised to see you felt the SQ was significantly superior in the S3600 as my experience was the opposite. Now it's not a fair comparison of the XV15se to the G21, and the S3600 is prob leaps and bounds better than the XV, but I been very very impressed with the XV. Once I moved it from a medium sized room to a very small room it blew me away with it's ability to pressurize the room but its lacked the tactile punch of the 18 it replaced. I was worried that the G21 would be a sledge hammer in comparison but lack the finesse, and its been the opposite. Maybe the S3600 would be that much better, and I am tempted by the great sale price of the S1800 to add one to the mix for curiosity sake. I was expecting the 21" to be a good performer but its ability to blend with my mains and add detail blew me away, which I attributed to the control of the SP1-4000. I have not come close to the limits of the subs, so I can't comment on their performance there. My ceiling has started to crack already. I was pushing the XV too hard tho with the same material so I was feeling bad for the poor guy.

Newc33, I would definitely take the time to figure out the DSP situation cause those SP1-2400 amps are where the majority of your money went and are definitely worth hanging onto.
I definatly want to hang on to them and adjust the dsp like you said. I'm not saying the the g21 is POS or anything like that. I more or less belive that with with proper dsp setting the sub could still be awsome.

I might know a guy who's willing to help, so we'll see what happens...

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post #6390 of 6445 Old 11-21-2016, 06:36 PM
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I definatly want to hang on to them and adjust the dsp like you said. I'm not saying the the g21 is POS or anything like that. I more or less belive that with with proper dsp setting the sub could still be awsome.

I might know a guy who's willing to help, so we'll see what happens...
Haha I have a good guess who that is! I take it you are looking at those little 18" drivers a little differently now! In my car, I've tried a lot of monster subs, but my IDQ subs, although they don't look like much, just deliver better bass.

Next, you gotta try some Seaton F18s in your room!
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