DIY Dual 12 inch ported vs Rythmik FV15HP - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I am currently in a bit of a dilemma. I am running dual Rythmik LV12R's and while they do dig low and sound really clean they don't quite give that hit you in the chest bass. The listening area isn't large roughly 14x16, but ceilings are high and it is open to an upstairs loft and dining area. I can either upgrade to a Rythmik FV15HP for a few hundred or go DIY and build the below for very little money. Thoughts on which choice would be best? Would the DIY 12's provide enough of a jump in performance over my current LV12R's? I'm going to post some links below to the components I would use to build my own.

Enclosures

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/ported-subwoofer-flatpacks/4-ported-sub-flat-pack.html

Drivers

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um12-22-12-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-512

Amps

http://www.parts-express.com/bash-500s-digital-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-500w-rms--300-752?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla



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post #2 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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A picture of my room. I have a couch against the wall on the left side another in the middle towards the back against no wall and a huge lazy boy on the right hand side by no wall. If I had more walls I think it would help energize the room more, but unfortunately I don't. The TV, receiver and front speakers are located in front of the window.


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post #3 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 07:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Would the DIY 12's provide enough of a jump in performance over my current LV12R's? I'm going to post some links below to the components I would use to build my own.
In the most simple of terms maximum output is limited by driver displacement. If you're comparing drivers of the same size you would compare xmax. Doubling xmax results in a 6dB increase in maximum displacement limited output. Since the Ultimax 12 has 19mm xmax it would potentially beat the LV12R by a worthwhile margin only if the LV12R driver xmax is 15mm or less, though it would have to be 10mm or less for the difference to be major.
As for one fifteen versus two twelves, the displacement rule still applies. For instance, the Ultimax 12 has 932cc of displacement, T/S spec Vd. The Vd of the Ultimax 15 is 1548cc. Obviously one U15 will beat one U12, but at 1864cc two U12 will beat one U15.
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post #4 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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So then I guess I would have to somehow find out what the xmax of the LV12R is from Rythmik.

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post #5 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 06:51 PM
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If you're going to go to the trouble of DIY, you might as well go all out and do 2 18's.  The cost wouldn't be that much more...probably about the cost of dual LV12Rs if you use 1 pro amp to drive dual 18s, especially if you get the SI 18s for around $160 ea plus shipping.

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post #6 of 40 Old 01-30-2014, 07:14 PM
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Why not DIY kits from Rythmik ?
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post #7 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I was looking at the kits from Rythmik, but I'm lacking tools to build the enclosures. That's why if I was going to go DIY I would just pick up some flat packs. I also tried to search for cabinet builders online who could maybe build me the enclosures, but I was unable to locate anything.

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post #8 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 05:48 AM
 
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I also tried to search for cabinet builders online who could maybe build me the enclosures, but I was unable to locate anything.
Jerry Caldwell, Austin, Texas. [email protected]
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post #9 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Your the man Bill thanks. Did you find this online or do you know Jerry personally? Just curious!

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post #10 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 06:15 AM
 
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Your the man Bill thanks. Did you find this online or do you know Jerry personally? Just curious!
He's an authorized builder of my designs, his (and 30 others) name is on the Cabinet Builders page on my website.
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post #11 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I will shoot him an email.

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post #12 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tripledub View Post

If you're going to go to the trouble of DIY, you might as well go all out and do 2 18's.  The cost wouldn't be that much more...probably about the cost of dual LV12Rs if you use 1 pro amp to drive dual 18s, especially if you get the SI 18s for around $160 ea plus shipping.

I could go the dual SI 18 route and pick up two of these. The reason for the plate amps as opposed to using 1 pro amp is because my receiver doesn't have the 12v trigger to hook up an external amp. Or is there another way I could achieve this?

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa1000-1000w-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-809

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post #13 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 10:57 AM
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I am running dual Rythmik LV12R's and while they do dig low and sound really clean they don't quite give that hit you in the chest bass.

If you are looking for hard hitting chest slam bass, even FV15HP won't cut it for you. If you can afford, JTR OS LFU is your ticket. Alternatively, DIY sub(s) with a pro-amp will get you what you want very cost effectively.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #14 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

If you are looking for hard hitting chest slam bass, even FV15HP won't cut it for you. If you can afford, JTR OS LFU is your ticket. Alternatively, DIY sub(s) with a pro-amp will get you what you want very cost effectively.

Any way I could hook up an external amp to the receiver I currently have?

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post #15 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

If you are looking for hard hitting chest slam bass, even FV15HP won't cut it for you. If you can afford, JTR OS LFU is your ticket. Alternatively, DIY sub(s) with a pro-amp will get you what you want very cost effectively.

...confused.gif

I know from personal experience, a pair of them will.

...confused.gif

(not trying to be argumentative, just saying, he commented about the LV12R and you commented about the FV15HP.....)

...confused.gif

(okay, there it is in the thread's title)

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post #16 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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The best I could do for right now is pick up one, but even after selling my LV12R's it would cost me a few hundred. I then would have to save up for a long time if I wanted to add a second. Brian did say that I could audition one at my house if I wanted.

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post #17 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:29 AM
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Yeah he did mention LV12R and was also thinking of upgrading to FV15HP to find better chest slam. As regards performance in the chest slam region and room pressurization; my room is a tad over 1700 cu ft. So, a single FV15HP in my sealed room pressurizes more than your duals in over 3000 cu ft open room. But Rythmiks lack that hard hitting chest slam feeling even in 2 ports open/14Hz extension mode.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #18 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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Yes, I see the FV15HP in the thread's title. redface.gif

(my bad)

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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

As regards performance in the chest slam region and room pressurization; my room is a tad over 1700 cu ft. So, a single FV15HP in my sealed room pressurizes more than your duals in over 3000 cu ft open room. But Rythmiks lack that hard hitting chest slam feeling even in 2 ports open/14Hz extension mode.

In our 3300^3 room, open to other large spaces, two FV15HPs, one port open, EQ'd flat +/-3dB to 11Hz, at +/-0dB MVC, causes the room, floor, seating, everything to rumble and roll in the 115dB range.

...confused.gif
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post #19 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:31 AM
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Brian did say that I could audition one at my house if I wanted.

Brian has a great CS and I reckon u must audition FV15HP and know it yourself.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #20 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 11:33 AM
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Any way I could hook up an external amp to the receiver I currently have?

Almost all the modern day AVRs can drive a pro amp to its optimum level. You just need to gain match it with CE gear.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #21 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 12:10 PM
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Which AVR do you have? It's my understanding that you run a RCA cable from your subwoofer out on your AVR to the pro amp. For the Behringer iNuke you'd have to have an RCA to XLR cable I think, although some pro amps have RCA inputs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. That is what I'm considering doing as well, so I would like clarification also
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post #22 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 12:22 PM
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You only require an rca female to XLR male adaptor or an rca male to xlr male cable. It will be an unbalanced connection between your AVR and the pro amp.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #23 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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You only require an rca female to XLR male adaptor or an rca male to xlr male cable. It will be an unbalanced connection between your AVR and the pro amp.

Meaning I will need an external EQ device to fine tune the sub? Trying to understand what unbalanced means exactly.

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post #24 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 12:59 PM
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Well if you go for an amp with built-in DSP e.g. iNuke DSP models, you do not need an external EQ device. Unbalanced means the potential difference in resistance between both ends of an unbalanced cable is not fixed. For small runs (up to 50 feet), there is no difference between balanced and unbalanced cable in terms of signal transfer.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #25 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the insight.

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post #26 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 01:07 PM
 
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Trying to understand what unbalanced means exactly.
Read this:
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
It also may help with the next issue that could arise, ground loop noise.
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Almost all the modern day AVRs can drive a pro amp to its optimum level
Not a true pro amp, which runs at +4db, as opposed to -10dB consumer level. Some lower end pro amps have sufficient gain to work with consumer level sources. There are level matching devices available if necessary.
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post #27 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 01:09 PM
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In our 3300^3 room, open to other large spaces, two FV15HPs, one port open, EQ'd flat +/-3dB to 11Hz, at +/-0dB MVC, causes the room, floor, seating, everything to rumble and roll in the 115dB range.

Um sure they do Bee, but I found FV15HP to be a tad mellower in chest slam region. A flat FR is half the battle won and does not give a correct reflection of listening experience, IMO.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 01:13 PM
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I've used Crown XLS-1000 and iNuke 6000 DSP with Yamaha RX-V3900, Onkyo 809, Denon 3313, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, and Onkyo 5010. All pushed both the amps into clipping when gain matched.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Um sure they do Bee, but I found FV15HP to be a tad mellower in chest slam region. A flat FR is half the battle won and does not give a correct reflection of listening experience, IMO.

Not arguing or disagreeing, but if the whole room is rumbling and rolling with the floor vibrating, chairs being thumped about with tactile sensation and the whole area crashing about at 110dB to 115dB, leaving the viewer with that butt-kicked, rode hard and put away wet feeling, than I'm clueless what real "chest slam" is.

...confused.gif

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post #30 of 40 Old 01-31-2014, 01:22 PM
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Rumbling and tactile sensations have more to do with sub 30Hz region. That's the area where, IMO, Rythmik FV15HP has staggering amount of power in 2 ports/14Hz extension/rumble filter on/ low damping. I just couldn't get that hard hitting chest slam, which is in 30Hz-60Hz region.

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Main System: PSB X2T, PSB XC, PSB XB, Cambridge Audio Azur 751R, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S500
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