what size subwoofer for small room for music listening? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-31-2014, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I am wondering what would be a good subwoofer for a small room 11 1/2 X 9.  I recently purchased a NAD d 3020 and have triad silver in room speakers.  There are so many different subwoofers with regards to size and amps it is very daunting. 

 

Thanks,

Jay

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post #2 of 30 Old 01-31-2014, 11:09 PM
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-01-2014, 02:05 AM
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REL T5, T7, T9 or R-328 depending on how smool your room is..
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post #4 of 30 Old 02-01-2014, 02:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvb View Post

Hello,
I am wondering what would be a good subwoofer for a small room 11 1/2 X 9.  I recently purchased a NAD d 3020 and have triad silver in room speakers.  There are so many different subwoofers with regards to size and amps it is very daunting. 

Thanks,
Jay

Depends on how deep you want it to play, how loud you want to play that and how much you can spend....that said, a small sealed sub like one of the SVS mentioned might be a good way to go, and the price is very good as is their rep. The Rel I demoed a few years I thought very very expensive for the performance.
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post #5 of 30 Old 02-01-2014, 04:47 AM
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The SB-1000 gets my vote.

Projector: LG PF1500W; Receiver: Sony STR-DN1080; Speakers: Monitor Audio Controlled Performance Inwalls and Inceilings; Subwoofer(s): SVS PC-2000; Bluray Player: Sony BDP-S6500; Remote: Roomie Remote; Cables: Monoprice
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post #6 of 30 Old 02-01-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvb View Post
 

Hello,

I am wondering what would be a good subwoofer for a small room 11 1/2 X 9.  I recently purchased a NAD d 3020 and have triad silver in room speakers.  There are so many different subwoofers with regards to size and amps it is very daunting. 

 

Thanks,

Jay

 

Ignore the size, unless you do not have the space for something large.  Ignore the amplifier power, as that is useless information without knowing the sensitivity of the woofer in the box.  What matters is how wide its frequency response is (particularly, how deep it goes), how flat its frequency response is (as an unflat response will exaggerate some things and reduce others in an unnatural way), and how loud it can play without problematic distortion.

 

You also have not said how much you want to spend.  The more money you are willing to spend, the better the subwoofer that you can buy.  I personally would not buy anything less than the bottom of the line SVS which costs about $500.  If I did not have that much, I would save up my money until I did, as lesser subwoofers are substantially lesser.  Since I listen to some music with really deep bass (like pipe organs), I would go for the PB-1000 instead of the SB-1000.  With more money, you can go up to a higher model, which will can get you even deeper bass and be capable of playing at a higher volume.  A pair of SVS Ultra subwoofers would be really nice.


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post #7 of 30 Old 02-01-2014, 05:57 PM
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My vote is for the SVS SB-1000 as the least you should get. I have one in a similarly sized room.

For better SQ from there, I'd look at the SVS SB-2000 or the sealed subs offered by Rythmik Audio before the REL subs that were mentioned.

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post #8 of 30 Old 02-02-2014, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow - thanks for all the responses.  I think $500 is my limit for now. 

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post #9 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 01:41 AM
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500 for now... smile.gif

Rythmik LV12R cost less than 600 plus shippingl, awesome for music only applications.
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post

Wow - thanks for all the responses.  I think $500 is my limit for now. 
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post #10 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post
 

Wow - thanks for all the responses.  I think $500 is my limit for now. 

 

In that case, I would go with the SVS PB-1000:

 

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/PB-1000#.Uu_B2hzRPZg

 

 

Just to be clear, that is different from the subwoofer recommended by some others in this thread, which is:

 

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/SB-1000#.Uu_CKBzRPZg

 

 

I recommend that you look at both of them carefully, and look at reviews in which performance is measured.  I would go with the first of these two.


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post #11 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post
 

Wow - thanks for all the responses.  I think $500 is my limit for now. 

Since your room is so small, you might have some trouble getting the sub tweaked just right. In light of that, and your budget, you might want to consider the HSU VTF-1 MK2. The VTF adjustments will help you drastically with your small listening area. The SVS PB 1000, while certainly capable it lacks the adjustments and tweeking you're going to be thankful to have with the HSU. 

 

It's $470 shipped. 

 

If you don't want, or care about the adjustments, you can go with the STF- 2 for $370 shipped, and be drastically under budget. Even the STF-1, with an 8" will fill up that room for $310 shipped. 




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post #12 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

Since your room is so small, you might have some trouble getting the sub tweaked just right. In light of that, and your budget, you might want to consider the HSU VTF-1 MK2. The VTF adjustments will help you drastically with your small listening area. The SVS PB 1000, while certainly capable it lacks the adjustments and tweeking you're going to be thankful to have with the HSU. 

It's $470 shipped. 

If you don't want, or care about the adjustments, you can go with the STF- 2 for $370 shipped, and be drastically under budget. Even the STF-1, with an 8" will fill up that room for $310 shipped. 

I disagree. The size of the room doesn't matter that much. Subs are a problem in any room. smile.gif

Plus, in a small room, a sealed sub like the SB-1000 would benefit from room gain.

The other consideration is that to use the VTF tweak adjustments effectively, one has to have a measurement mic, take measurements, and know how to use them. So you have just added $100 to the cost.

Finally, both the SB-1000 and the PB-1000 have one option that those other subs don't have--a built in high pass filter on the line out. If Jay is using a separate DAC instead of the internal DACs in the NAD D 3020, the option to use a higher crossover is a good one.

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post #13 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

Since your room is so small, you might have some trouble getting the sub tweaked just right. In light of that, and your budget, you might want to consider the HSU VTF-1 MK2. The VTF adjustments will help you drastically with your small listening area. The SVS PB 1000, while certainly capable it lacks the adjustments and tweeking you're going to be thankful to have with the HSU. 

It's $470 shipped. 

If you don't want, or care about the adjustments, you can go with the STF- 2 for $370 shipped, and be drastically under budget. Even the STF-1, with an 8" will fill up that room for $310 shipped. 

As long as you take the time to position the sub in the room for best response and then calibrate the sub to match SPL of the other speakers, it doesn't matter the size of the sub. Also a bad room acoustically is a bad room, big or small.
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post

Wow - thanks for all the responses.  I think $500 is my limit for now. 

One other new choice, and may be somewhat of a risk, you know, taking one for the team and all that, but a new player with a dual opposed sealed 12" design for $400 delivered right now https://www.avsforum.com/t/1512281/reaction-audio-subs
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post #15 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mark62 View Post


As long as you take the time to position the sub in the room for best response and then calibrate the sub to match SPL of the other speakers, it doesn't matter the size of the sub. Also a bad room acoustically is a bad room, big or small.

I never said anything about the VTF fixing a room with bad acoustics. I said that a small room imo would likely benefit from the VTF features. I don't recall saying anything about sub size. Let me sum it up, after he takes the time to position the sub, the VTF adjustments will will likely be of further benefit. 

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I disagree. The size of the room doesn't matter that much. Subs are a problem in any room. smile.gif

Plus, in a small room, a sealed sub like the SB-1000 would benefit from room gain.

The other consideration is that to use the VTF tweak adjustments effectively, one has to have a measurement mic, take measurements, and know how to use them. So you have just added $100 to the cost.

Finally, both the SB-1000 and the PB-1000 have one option that those other subs don't have--a built in high pass filter on the line out. If Jay is using a separate DAC instead of the internal DACs in the NAD D 3020, the option to use a higher crossover is a good one.

I disagree. The size of the room doesn't matter that much. Subs are a problem in any room

 

Room size is a huge driver for sub selection, but you know that right? Depending on how picky you are, yes subs can be a problem in a sealed room with no furniture. I guess it's up to the listener to pick his or her battles accordingly. 

 

Plus, in a small room, a sealed sub like the SB-1000 would benefit from room gain.

 

Agreed. The VTF has the flexibility of being sealed or ported. 

 

The other consideration is that to use the VTF tweak adjustments effectively, one has to have a measurement mic, take measurements, and know how to use them. So you have just added $100 to the cost.

 

This is ridiculous. Perhaps to use the VTF adjustments in some expressed quantitative scientific way, yeah. I think that by using your ears, and the test CD they provide I believe that the OP will gain a lot from having the VTF adjustments, vs not having them. 

 

Finally, both the SB-1000 and the PB-1000 have one option that those other subs don't have--a built in high pass filter on the line out. If Jay is using a separate DAC instead of the internal DACs in the NAD D 3020, the option to use a higher crossover is a good one.

 

The SVS line out is fixed at 80hz. HSU has a 100$ optional High Pass Filter Box with 2 programmable Hz of his choice. He might want 80, he might not. Of course he hasn't mentioned using a DAC either. But, yeah fixed or not, it's nice that SVS has this feature built in.




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post #16 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

One other new choice, and may be somewhat of a risk, you know, taking one for the team and all that, but a new player with a dual opposed sealed 12" design for $400 delivered right now https://www.avsforum.com/t/1512281/reaction-audio-subs

+1
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post #17 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

I disagree. The size of the room doesn't matter that much. Subs are a problem in any room

Room size is a huge driver for sub selection, but you know that right? Depending on how picky you are, yes subs can be a problem in a sealed room with no furniture. I guess it's up to the listener to pick his or her battles accordingly. 

Of course I do. I was responding to your comment about the room size being such an issue rolleyes.gif

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The other consideration is that to use the VTF tweak adjustments effectively, one has to have a measurement mic, take measurements, and know how to use them. So you have just added $100 to the cost.

This is ridiculous. Perhaps to use the VTF adjustments in some expressed quantitative scientific way, yeah. I think that by using your ears, and the test CD they provide I believe that the OP will gain a lot from having the VTF adjustments, vs not having them. 

I'm certain that there are many others on this forum that would agree that correcting for those room acoustics--that you feel makes the VTF so important to have--is "ridiculous" to try to EQ by ear without even knowing what the frequency response in the room is.

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post #18 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 02:54 PM
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and you can not EQ a null at your LP.

Agreed. And those Q controls on the the VTF already have the frequency and gain preset. So they are pretty limiting on what corrections they can do. Mostly it's just to change the roll off. Not nearly as useful as the full PEQ options on some of the Rythmik amps. Now those adjustments would be great to have, assuming one had measurements to go along with them smile.gif

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post #19 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Agreed. And those Q controls on the the VTF already have the frequency and gain preset. So they are pretty limiting on what corrections they can do. Mostly it's just to change the roll off. Not nearly as useful as the full PEQ options on some of the Rythmik amps. Now those adjustments would be great to have, assuming one had measurements to go along with them smile.gif

I have literally spent days setting up subs and measuring them to get a flat response... tedious to say the least... eek.gif Even measuring with a simple SPL meter and test tones can do wonders.
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post #20 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 03:11 PM
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I have literally spent days setting up subs and measuring them to get a flat response... tedious to say the least... eek.gif Even measuring with a simple SPL meter and test tones can do wonders.

I understand.

My main subs are in my living room where there are very limited placements options. I've already resigned myself to go with "good enough." LOL

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post #21 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 03:32 PM
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I understand.

My main subs are in my living room where there are very limited placements options. I've already resigned myself to go with "good enough." LOL

That is what I have basically done, and to my surprise the best spot for my subs were near a front corner, I tried placing the subs in separate suggested locations and just could not get them to work so I just stack them near the front corner and get a reasonably flat frequency response....
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post #22 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Of course I do. I was responding to your comment about the room size being such an issue rolleyes.gif
I'm certain that there are many others on this forum that would agree that correcting for those room acoustics--that you feel makes the VTF so important to have--is "ridiculous" to try to EQ by ear without even knowing what the frequency response in the room is.

I never said improving room acoustics. I said improve the sound. You're drawing your own conclusions outside of the context of what I'm saying. I never said EQing by ear, I'm talking about going to the different VTF functions on the HSU, and perhaps gaining an improvement in sound you wouldn't have the option of with the SB1000. Could I be wrong, sure, but I never once said that the VTF will be a type of fix you're accusing me of saying it is. 

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and you can not EQ a null at your LP.

Claw means well but clearly is ignorant on several fronts. Ignorant does not mean stupid, just not having a understanding.

I said nothing about EQing a null. Dude, I even tried to help you out. I believe that the VTF will give him a few more options to improve the sound- that's all. Improvement in sound is subjective, to each his own, but I think that he'll get noticeable results. Instead of asking me why I felt that way, you and cel made up stuff assuming that's where I was coming from. I tried to explain that was a wrong assumption and you're making up more things that I was insinuating.  

 

Both of you are jumping to different subject matter which I'm not at all ignorant of, but not at all what I'm talking about.

 

Mark, keep your condescending comments to yourself- that's trolling/flaming, plain and simple. Both of you seem to be the sort on message boards who are reactionary and anxious to prove someone wrong that you can't help yourself from making things up and jumping to your own conclusions. You two have repeatedly called me wrong by assuming subject matter which I never mentioned nor referenced. 

 

At the end of the day, both the SB1000, and the VTF1 are great subs, I just think that based off all the information presented by the OP, that the HSU VTF 1 would be a better choice because of the VTF features of the HSU. If the OP goes with the SB1000, he's still getting a fine product. My suggestion is more rooted in my own personal opinion instead of anything specific.




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post #23 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

I never said improving room acoustics. I said improve the sound. You're drawing your own conclusions outside of the context of what I'm saying. I never said EQing by ear, I'm talking about going to the different VTF functions on the HSU, and perhaps gaining an improvement in sound you wouldn't have the option of with the SB1000. Could I be wrong, sure, but I never once said that the VTF will be a type of fix you're accusing me of saying it is. 
I said nothing about EQing a null. Dude, I even tried to help you out. I believe that the VTF will give him a few more options to improve the sound- that's all. Improvement in sound is subjective, to each his own, but I think that he'll get noticeable results. Instead of asking me why I felt that way, you and cel made up stuff assuming that's where I was coming from. I tried to explain that was a wrong assumption and you're making up more things that I was insinuating.  

Both of you are jumping to different subject matter which I'm not at all ignorant of, but not at all what I'm talking about.

Mark, keep your condescending comments to yourself- that's trolling/flaming, plain and simple. Both of you seem to be the sort on message boards who are reactionary and anxious to prove someone wrong that you can't help yourself from making things up and jumping to your own conclusions. You two have repeatedly called me wrong by assuming subject matter which I never mentioned nor referenced. 

At the end of the day, both the SB1000, and the VTF1 are great subs, I just think that based off all the information presented by the OP, that the HSU VTF 1 would be a better choice because of the VTF features of the HSU. If the OP goes with the SB1000, he's still getting a fine product. My suggestion is more rooted in my own personal opinion instead of anything specific.

You keep contradicting yourself and saying "I didn't say that" when in fact you did. I correct you because you sometimes are giving misinformed and wrong info on the forums. I apologize and will ignore you from now on.
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post #24 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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One other new choice, and may be somewhat of a risk, you know, taking one for the team and all that, but a new player with a dual opposed sealed 12" design for $400 delivered right now https://www.avsforum.com/t/1512281/reaction-audio-subs


This looks interesting.  How would something like this be placed.   In the thread you posted it said a couple of inches from the wall.  I have a built in which is where my speakers are and  I was thinking of placing a subwoofer in the open area part of the built in (see pic).  I have read that usually the placement of the subwoofer should be on the same side of the room as the speakers.  Is this true?

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post #25 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:01 PM
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post #26 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

I never said improving room acoustics. I said improve the sound. You're drawing your own conclusions outside of the context of what I'm saying.

No I'm not. I specifically said that others would agree with me. This is the AVS subwoofer forum. You appear to be new here and may be unaware. Improving the sound to most of the regular sub enthusiasts who hang out in this forum means correcting for room acoustic issues. You don't have to agree with it. But that's how it is.

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post #27 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post


This looks interesting.  How would something like this be placed.   In the thread you posted it said a couple of inches from the wall.  I have a built in which is where my speakers are and  I was thinking of placing a subwoofer in the open area part of the built in (see pic).  I have read that usually the placement of the subwoofer should be on the same side of the room as the speakers.  Is this true?


I wouldn't leave the computer in there with a dual opposed sub firing at it smile.gif

Otherwise, if you place the sub such that the drivers are not directly against the wall or cabinet, it should work as well as other subs. Bass is omni directional.

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post #28 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jayvb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

One other new choice, and may be somewhat of a risk, you know, taking one for the team and all that, but a new player with a dual opposed sealed 12" design for $400 delivered right now https://www.avsforum.com/t/1512281/reaction-audio-subs


This looks interesting.  How would something like this be placed.   In the thread you posted it said a couple of inches from the wall.  I have a built in which is where my speakers are and  I was thinking of placing a subwoofer in the open area part of the built in (see pic).  I have read that usually the placement of the subwoofer should be on the same side of the room as the speakers.  Is this true?


Sometimes it just depends where you can place it or are willing to place it. You might even want it nearfield depending on your room. In my current room I have my mains up front, with my dual opposed sub (Epik Empire) sitting smack in the middle as it is my tv stand for now (until I get my new workshop into gear and make one); I have two other subs at different positions on the left and right sides of the room.

In my previous place I had a similar construct as in your pic off to the right of the mains and tried that same sub in that spot and felt that it was too emphasized there (probably because of the semi-enclosed space, like a corner plus) YMMV. The dual opposed as far as orientation of the drivers isn't critical, altho I'm using mine with one driver facing the wall, the other towards my listening area but I've used it in other orientations as well before I ended up using it as my tv stand (and has to go with the drivers facing the way they are due to the shape of the tv's built in feet). I've only been in my new place a while and haven't done a proper sub crawl until I have some options smile.gif.

Stevenn posted this in another thread, and not particularly about where to place the sub, but some good info nonetheless http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul02/articles/subwoofers.asp
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post #29 of 30 Old 02-03-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayvb View Post


This looks interesting.  How would something like this be placed.   In the thread you posted it said a couple of inches from the wall.  I have a built in which is where my speakers are and  I was thinking of placing a subwoofer in the open area part of the built in (see pic).  I have read that usually the placement of the subwoofer should be on the same side of the room as the speakers.  Is this true?


That would sure load the sub for more output like a horn? I don't think anyone could tell you how that would sound. I actually did this with a little 8" sub one time and it helped the poor lil' thing in my big room.
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post #30 of 30 Old 02-06-2014, 11:05 AM
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Just going to add my two cents to the discussion of room size. Most any sub can be tuned to have a reasonable performance in a small room, assuming you have the tools, the time, and the knowledge. The issue in a small room, IMO, is that there is no point in buying more sub than you can use. If you have budget constraints, there is no point in over-buying a lot of power, because, in a small room, you'll probably never use it. It will also allow you to use the rest of the cash on tuning tools and room treatments, which are an important part of getting the best out of your sub.

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