Expanding my current setup - Looking for more low end bass - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-21-2014, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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A while back I purchased my first HT setup consisting of the Jamo S606 HCS3 speaker set and a Denon AVR-591. I've been more than happy with my purchase, but I'm just finally getting the itch to add more low end. The Jamo towers have 8" woofers built in and handle things quite well, but are obviously not a replacement for a dedicated subwoofer.

My living area is 17'x16' with ceilings vaulted to 9' and the room is open to a 5'x4' foyer and 18'x10' dining area. Generally, the system is just for general TV viewing. But in terms of high volume listening, I listen mostly to music (probably 80% use) vs movies. I'm looking for a sub that can handle deep bass and keep pace with the demands of electronic and metal music.

Till recently, I had been leaning to the STF-2, but I wonder if a 12" sub would be more appropriate since I already have 8" woofers in the towers. Also, I know most suggestions here are to purchase ID, but I wound up winning a $200 best buy card and decided to give their line a look since I could potentially stretch my budget an extra $200. That being said, here are my current considerations

Best Buy:
Energy ESW-C10 ($430)
Klipsch SW-450 ($470)
Velodyne Impact 12 ($460)
Def. Tech. Pro Sub 1000 ($500)
MartinLogan Dynamo 500 ($500)
Polk DSW PRO 660WI ($650) <---would be a stretch & not too sure its worth the $$

Other:
HSU STF-2 ($360)
BIC PL200 ($330)


Because of the gift card, I'm leaning a lot toward the SW450

Thanks!
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-21-2014, 10:43 PM
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I'm not familiar with most of the subs you have there but I do own one of them..The SW450. It is a very good sub but I don't think it's going to present itself well in that space. It can get boomy. The smallest sub I would ever put in a home theater is 12 inches.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
AVR: Denon X2200W
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #3 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 12:20 AM
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Sell your gift card and get a PB-1000, which blows everything you listed out of the water around the $500 price point.

On another note, woofer cone size alone is not indicative of a system's max output and extension capabilities, so don't make that your primary consideration.
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 12:47 AM
 
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The Polk DSW 660WI might not be awful, but I don't think it would be a great value for the money. It would probably be my choice if I had to choose from that bunch. However, I would much rather sell the card and get an ID sub. At 500 to 600, my choices would be the Rythmik LV12r or Hsu VTF2 mk4. I would also be looking at a new sub called the Reaction BPS 212 Turbo, it's new but it could be really good for the price. The specs look great for the money.
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Would dual BIC F12s serve me as well as a single VTF2?
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 11:36 AM
 
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In my opinion, no. Dual subs can do more to address room acoustic response problems, but those BIC F12s probably won't have a very good in themselves, plus they wouldn't have anything like the sound quality of a VTF2, or extension for that matter. I would say once you start getting into subs with a good response and sound quality, than go chase after the benefits of multiple subs setups, but it doesn't make much sense to do so before that.
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Sell your gift card and get a PB-1000, which blows everything you listed out of the water around the $500 price point.

On another note, woofer cone size alone is not indicative of a system's max output and extension capabilities, so don't make that your primary consideration.

 

Yes, it is unwise to judge a subwoofer by its woofer size.  Different woofers can have dramatically different qualities, and the cabinet design is a big factor in the performance one gets as well.  The SVS PB-1000 is much better than any other subwoofer at its price or less, no matter what size woofer the other one uses, if one wants the flattest, deepest bass one can get.  If one wants louder bass and is willing to give up depth, then the Premier Acoustic PA-150 would be a better choice:

 

http://www.audioholics.com/how-to-shop/500-subwoofer-roundup

 

But I personally would much prefer the SVS, as I want really deep bass.

 

 

The best way to judge a subwoofer is by looking at actual measurements of performance taken by standard methods (e.g., not "in-room" response, as different rooms will make such measurements basically useless).


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post #8 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 12:25 PM
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Go with any of the $500 to $600 Internet Direct Subwoofers. They will best any of the subs on your list, then when you have the extra cash buy a 2nd identical sub.

Shawn
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 01:11 PM
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Guys, let's stop literally shoving ID subs down the OP's throat. We all love ID subs but not everyone is going to have one or want to pay for one. First, let's find out if he wants to sell his gift card which would cause him to take at least a small loss, and then add back to that to order an ID sub.

Some people, like myself, enjoy supporting the local economy but when I was putting my HT together, my Best Buy didn't have a third of the selection his has.

OP, dropping $500 on an ID sub is probably going to best bet...ie..Pb1000 but if you prefer to go with your local Best Buy then we will try to suggest the best of the lot you listed.

When I stated, I wouldn't use anything smaller than a 12" sub In my home theater, I meant that but I should have also said that was my personal preference. I am sure there are some great 10" subs out there but I don't think they would hold a candle to my dual 15" girls.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
AVR: Denon X2200W
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 4
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-22-2014, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Guys, let's stop literally shoving ID subs down the OP's throat. We all love ID subs but not everyone is going to have one or want to pay for one. First, let's find out if he wants to sell his gift card which would cause him to take at least a small loss, and then add back to that to order an ID sub.

Some people, like myself, enjoy supporting the local economy but when I was putting my HT together, my Best Buy didn't have a third of the selection his has.

OP, dropping $500 on an ID sub is probably going to best bet...ie..Pb1000 but if you prefer to go with your local Best Buy then we will try to suggest the best of the lot you listed.

When I stated, I wouldn't use anything smaller than a 12" sub In my home theater, I meant that but I should have also said that was my personal preference. I am sure there are some great 10" subs out there but I don't think they would hold a candle to my dual 15" girls.

I'm with you on getting a 12" sub. Like stated earlier, the Jamo towers each have an 8" woofer in them and they have served me very well for the past few years, but I'm looking to dip deeper. While I'm aware that enclosure design plays a huge part in how a driver performs, I would like a 12" sub. Maybe its mental or maybe i'm too much of a newbie, but I've never experienced a smaller driver equal the fullness of a larger on when hitting deep bass notes.

I'm totally open to ID subs, but since I ended up with the gift cards I figured I'd give Best Buy a chance. From the sounds of it, I'll be best served by selling them and looking into the PB1000. But is that one of the best musical subs in that realm. $500 shipped is a pretty hard cap for me
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-26-2014, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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So what is the big advantage of the PB1000 vs the SB1000? Is the recommendation because of my room size?
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-26-2014, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmods View Post

So what is the big advantage of the PB1000 vs the SB1000? Is the recommendation because of my room size?
The PB-1000 will have more output when compared to the SB-1000 in your open room
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-26-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapmods View Post

So what is the big advantage of the PB1000 vs the SB1000? Is the recommendation because of my room size?

 

The PB-1000 has more output in its usable range, and it is also flatter down lower.  However, the frequency response then drops off faster than with the SB-1000.  For the frequency response characteristics, you can look at the graphs that SVS provides under the heading of "Tech Specs" on the pages for the two subwoofers:

 

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/view-all/SB-1000

 

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/view-all/PB-1000

 

This faster drop off, by the way, is common to ported subwoofers.  If you had an infinite budget and infinite space for subwoofers, I would recommend buying a bunch of sealed subwoofers and boosting the deep bass with an EQ.  But for most reasonable budgets, I recommend ported subwoofers.

 

Some people have a prejudice against ported subwoofers, because if they are poorly designed, instead of getting a deeper flat response like the PB-1000, the port instead boosts bass that the woofer is already covering, giving it a boomy quality.  That, however, is a reason to dislike poorly designed ported subwoofers, not all of them.

 

Basically, you get sound from the woofer and from the port.  If made properly, the sound from the port will be at lower frequencies that extend the frequency response lower, though an improperly made one can instead reinforce the upper bass, giving a boomy, "one note" kind of bass instead of a flat response.  This is one of the reasons why it is good to look at actual measurements of subwoofers, whenever possible, before making a purchase.


God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
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post #14 of 15 Old 03-11-2014, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Just an update to all you guys who helped me out, I went for it and got the PB-2000!!

I can't wait to get it set up and hear just what I've gotten myself into.
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post #15 of 15 Old 03-11-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cheapmods View Post

Just an update to all you guys who helped me out, I went for it and got the PB-2000!!

I can't wait to get it set up and hear just what I've gotten myself into.

lol

 

That sounds like the right thing to do. Much less likely to end up wanting more woofage in a short period of time.

 

For example, I bought a BIC F12 two weeks ago to upgrade my 5 year old Polk PSW10 and I'm already extremely close to pulling the trigger on something like an SB2000 myself. 

 

No such thing as too much sub woofer, they say, right? :)


Samsung KS8000 65", Sony UBP-x800
Denon AVR-X1000
SVS PB-2000
Front-Center-Surround, Pioneer: FS52-C22-FS51
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