SVS PB13 Ultra, worth it? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Just curious ShadyJ have you heard a PB13U or FV15HP before you draw up and come to your own conclusion as stated above.

Yes I have, I ordered ten of each to compare them so I could have a minimal statistical sampling for an averaged performance of each model while ruling out any production anomalies. Each sub was carefully tested for frequency response and distortion variance, and they were also tested for extreme clamactic conditions so they were placed in a pressure chamber and made to perform in extreme PSIs, and also were tested under gravitational freefall to emulate performance under microgravitational conditions. The lesser performing model was stacked into a pile and set on fire. So was the greater performing model.
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post #32 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:01 PM
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Op, since the sub(s) will be behind your false wall, Black oak FV15hp is a much much better choice, but then I would go DIY or AYI with 8 18" SI's since look does not matter.
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post #33 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

Op, since the sub(s) will be behind your false wall, Black oak FV15hp is a much much better choice, but then I would go DIY or AYI with 8 18" SI's since look does not matter.

Yeah if I did go with Rythmik it would be black oak. I don't have much interest in going the diy route. I just finished watching Percy Jackson Sea of Monsters and the PB-2000s performed well. I think I just need to try a higher model to compare before I make my final decision. I don't want to have to upgrade anytime soon.
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post #34 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Yes I have, I ordered ten of each to compare them so I could have a minimal statistical sampling for an averaged performance of each model while ruling out any production anomalies. Each sub was carefully tested for frequency response and distortion variance, and they were also tested for extreme clamactic conditions so they were placed in a pressure chamber and made to perform in extreme PSIs, and also were tested under gravitational freefall to emulate performance under microgravitational conditions. The lesser performing model was stacked into a pile and set on fire. So was the greater performing model.

Lol not bad Shady...not bad at all!
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post #35 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

Yeah if I did go with Rythmik it would be black oak. I don't have much interest in going the diy route. I just finished watching Percy Jackson Sea of Monsters and the PB-2000s performed well. I think I just need to try a higher model to compare before I make my final decision. I don't want to have to upgrade anytime soon.

If you are serious about purchasing a set of subs and do not want to upgrade for a long time, look at the Passive JTR Captivator 1000's powered by a Inuke 3000dsp amp. This setup will run you around 3k and it will be truly amazing. The only way you could get this performance for cheaper is buy building your own marty cube flat packs stuffed with Stereo Integrity D2 18" drivers. This setup would cost around 1200.00 to build a pair including the DSP amp.
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post #36 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DualMono View Post

Nearly a [email protected] is more than a "slight edge in extension". That +40lbs and +$500 bucks didn't add much to the performance besides look "prettier", imo.

I keep hearing this argument that the FV15 has 9dB more 12.5Hz output than the PB13.

No it doesn't. It has about 1dB more. It has 9dB more output when you limit the output but distortion *ONLY*. That's a key difference. Maximum CEA2010 is limited by distortion only. It can make a ton of audible bad noises like port noise or driver clanking, but as long as the distortion is under the CEA2010 limit, it will be considered as "clean" output.

The PB13 can produce 97.4dB at 12Hz if you ignore distortion. The FV15 can produce 98.5dB.

You might say, the PB13 is producing 92% distortion at 97.4dB. Yes, that's true. But look at the FV15. The output is limited by noise, not distortion. This means the FV15 is producing so much port noise that the output was limited by noise instead of distortion.

Most of the PB13's distortion is 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion, which is not really audible to the ear. Even at 92% distortion, I'd wager that it is still sounding cleaner than the Rythmik with its tiny 3'' port trying to cope with all that output.
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post #37 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 06:02 PM
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FV15hp has 3.5" port.
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post #38 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

FV15hp has 3.5" port.

The FV15HP is medium to large sized for a commercial HT subwoofer with two 3" flared ports.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51
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post #39 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe I'm going to stick with SVS and go with a pair from the Plus line. This should be more than enough for my room and will put me at ease. Thank you all for your insight smile.gif
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post #40 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I believe I'm going to stick with SVS and go with a pair from the Plus line. This should be more than enough for my room and will put me at ease. Thank you all for your insight smile.gif

From your recent posting, I think this is your best option.  You won't be wondering what if once you do this, and I think you will see a lot of benefit in output, depth of extension, and adjustability.  Congrats and let us know how you like them if you do pull the trigger.

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post #41 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I believe I'm going to stick with SVS and go with a pair from the Plus line. This should be more than enough for my room and will put me at ease. Thank you all for your insight smile.gif

Nothing wrong with that!! I think they will be a nice upgrade. smile.gif
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post #42 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I really do like the 2000s and they're very close to giving me that truly satisfied feeling so the next step up should get me there. There will always be more and another level but realistically with my 2500 cu ft room I should be pretty good with 2 800 Watt subs ha.
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post #43 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I really do like the 2000s and they're very close to giving me that truly satisfied feeling so the next step up should get me there. There will always be more and another level but realistically with my 2500 cu ft room I should be pretty good with 2 800 Watt subs ha.

Power does not tell the whole story. Just so you know upgrading to the Pluses is going to net another +3db of output. Dual Ultras will get you another +6db.

I have 3 XV15's in a 2400cu room and they get the job done nicely. I believe 2 Pluses vs 3 XV15's are pretty close in the 16-30hz range. The XV15's most likely have a bit more in the 40-63hz, but needless to say I am pretty happy with the results so I think you will be too smile.gif
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post #44 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Lecter83 View Post

The FV15HP is medium to large sized for a commercial HT subwoofer with two 3" flared ports.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51
Ricci is wrong on this according to Brian of Rythmik.
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post #45 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I believe I'm going to stick with SVS and go with a pair from the Plus line. This should be more than enough for my room and will put me at ease. Thank you all for your insight smile.gif

Have you measured the performance of the subs in your room? If the frequency response is not very linear, and you have plenty of placement options, a 3rd PB-2000 might be a better choice. Or what kind of EQ equipment do you have? Do you have any bass traps? Smoothing the in room response some way could easily be the best way to get better sound. If your room is a sealed 2600 cubic ft room, going up one notch in sub may not do much of anything for you for improving dynamics unless you listen at very loud volumes.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
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post #46 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Power does not tell the whole story. Just so you know upgrading to the Pluses is going to net another +3db of output. Dual Ultras will get you another +6db.

I have 3 XV15's in a 2400cu room and they get the job done nicely. I believe 2 Pluses vs 3 XV15's are pretty close in the 16-30hz range. The XV15's most likely have a bit more in the 40-63hz, but needless to say I am pretty happy with the results so I think you will be too smile.gif

What receiver are you using? Was it challenging to get 3 subs sounding nicely? I asked SVS about adding a 3rd PB-2000 and they told me it's a challenge to setup 3 subs. I still kinda like the idea of having more than 2. You must have really even bass.
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post #47 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:20 AM
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FV15HP has two 3-1/2" flared ports. We sell the set of two 3-1/2" ports for $25 in our website.

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post #48 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Have you measured the performance of the subs in your room? If the frequency response is not very linear, and you have plenty of placement options, a 3rd PB-2000 might be a better choice. Or what kind of EQ equipment do you have? Do you have any bass traps? Smoothing the in room response some way could easily be the best way to get better sound. If your room is a sealed 2600 cubic ft room, going up one notch in sub may not do much of anything for you for improving dynamics unless you listen at very loud volumes.

My first upgrade thought was to add a third sub but SVS said that can be tricky. I don't have any type of EQ equipment right now and have bass traps on order. I would love a third sub if I could make that work. Still cheaper than going with the next model up. I don't always listen at reference level so perhaps I could look into a third one.
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post #49 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:26 AM
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If your receiver does not have Audyssey MultEQ which provides some sub EQ, a mini-dsp and measurement mic could easily yield you better sound than upgrading your subs.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
Living room HT: Energy RC-50, Ascend Sierra Horizon w/RAAL, Ascend Sierra 1, PSB Imagine XA | PSA V1500 and CHT SS 18.1 | Denon X4200W | modified Dayton SA1000
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post #50 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:38 AM
 
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Think you're wasting money tbh, dual PB2000 is excellent, sure in 10 years time replace them, but they're brand new!

What is your system? Running Bose Jewel? if so upgrade them lol. Got a TV from the 50's? Upgrade that

etc
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post #51 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

Think you're wasting money tbh, dual PB2000 is excellent, sure in 10 years time replace them, but they're brand new!

What is your system? Running Bose Jewel? if so upgrade them lol. Got a TV from the 50's? Upgrade that

etc

I think that's a good point. Unless you are an ultra basshead looking for your subs to blast your brains out and just have to have more SPL, other areas of your setup might provide better bang for your buck in terms of upgrade.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #52 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I think that's a good point. Unless you are an ultra basshead looking for your subs to blast your brains out and just have to have more SPL, other areas of your setup might provide better bang for your buck in terms of upgrade.

Actually the opposite, my reason for considering an upgrade is to achieve great quality. I have an Onkyo 818 with polk monitor 75T mains, Epson 8350 with 150" diy screen so overall I think my system is pretty solid for my first theater build. I love cinema quality bass so perhaps an investment in some EQ wouldn't hurt
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Upgrade your speakers, $500 for a pair of 5 driver way floorstanders?
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post #54 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

Upgrade your speakers, $500 for a pair of 5 driver way floorstanders?

Agreed. Start saving to upgrade your mains and your center channel. They are entry level in the Polk line and your receiver and subs are each a much higher class of equipment. For instance, Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SEs and matching center would be an improvement. There are certainly many other speakers you might consider. As far as bass, better speakers would help with the midbass that your subs are not providing.

Now the Onkyo 818 has Audyssey MultEQ XT32. If you are calibrating everything correctly with it, adding an external EQ may not make much difference. XT32 has very, very good sub EQ capability.

That being said, getting a microphone so that you could take measurements with REW and experiment with different room placement could help with SQ if you are not doing this already. XT32 can only make the best of where you have put the subs. You might also experiment with level matching vs gain matching your subs (there are advantages to each). Once you get comfortable taking measurements and optimizing placement of your existing subs, then you'll also know whether or not your room might benefit from a third PB-2000.

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post #55 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I kinda figured my speakers were at the bottom end of the spectrum but at the time I couldn't afford better. Was more focused on getting better subs. I was under the impression the Onkyo 818 doesn't have XT32.
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post #56 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 09:37 AM
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The 818 has XT32 but NOT subEQ HT
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post #57 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

The 818 has XT32 but NOT subEQ HT

Ahh gotcha, I get those mixed up sometimes.
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post #58 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post

I keep hearing this argument that the FV15 has 9dB more 12.5Hz output than the PB13.

No it doesn't. It has about 1dB more. It has 9dB more output when you limit the output but distortion *ONLY*. That's a key difference. Maximum CEA2010 is limited by distortion only. It can make a ton of audible bad noises like port noise or driver clanking, but as long as the distortion is under the CEA2010 limit, it will be considered as "clean" output.

The PB13 can produce 97.4dB at 12Hz if you ignore distortion. The FV15 can produce 98.5dB.

You might say, the PB13 is producing 92% distortion at 97.4dB. Yes, that's true. But look at the FV15. The output is limited by noise, not distortion. This means the FV15 is producing so much port noise that the output was limited by noise instead of distortion.

Most of the PB13's distortion is 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion, which is not really audible to the ear. Even at 92% distortion, I'd wager that it is still sounding cleaner than the Rythmik with its tiny 3'' port trying to cope with all that output.


Nicely summed-up LowerFE... and a huge factor (+ Ultra's superior build quality/finish...) on my decision ultimately picking the PB13 over the FV15HP.

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post #59 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 10:36 AM
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In pictures the FV15, sports a smaller port size not corresponding with 3.5. "It is an image and the optical effect of a higher driver can affect visual perception.

Another thing is that currently have updated the size of the ports.


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post #60 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Damn those ultras look awesome!
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