SVS PB13 Ultra, worth it? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

Damn those ultras look awesome!


Indeed... biggrin.gif


"my twins"


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post #62 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 01:17 PM
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Yes I have, I ordered ten of each to compare them so I could have a minimal statistical sampling for an averaged performance of each model while ruling out any production anomalies. Each sub was carefully tested for frequency response and distortion variance, and they were also tested for extreme clamactic conditions so they were placed in a pressure chamber and made to perform in extreme PSIs, and also were tested under gravitational freefall to emulate performance under microgravitational conditions. The lesser performing model was stacked into a pile and set on fire. So was the greater performing model.

Shady I disagree with you on certain viewpoints but this was funny. I was unaware that you had such a sense of humor. 


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post #63 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

Shady I disagree with you on certain viewpoints but this was funny. I was unaware that you had such a sense of humor. 

Yup humor is one way to avoid the question but I already knew the answer....wink.gif

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post #64 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post


Indeed... biggrin.gif


"my twins"

Those look sweet. You must be very proud of your twins.


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post #65 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

Those look sweet. You must be very proud of your twins.


Very true, Hopinater...................I am a proud papa smile.gif I totally recommend you adopt a pair of lonely Ultra twins.



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post #66 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 02:21 PM
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^ LOL. Those twins can be a little expensive to adopt but I know they're worth it. Sadly they're a little out of my budget right now. 


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post #67 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

^ LOL. Those twins can be a little expensive to adopt but I know they're worth it. Sadly they're a little out of my budget right now. 

Likewise, but it's something to shoot for in the future. Best looking sub out there imo, not that looks are vital in a darkened dedicated HT ha.
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post #68 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LowerFE View Post

I keep hearing this argument that the FV15 has 9dB more 12.5Hz output than the PB13.

No it doesn't. It has about 1dB more. It has 9dB more output when you limit the output but distortion *ONLY*. That's a key difference. Maximum CEA2010 is limited by distortion only. It can make a ton of audible bad noises like port noise or driver clanking, but as long as the distortion is under the CEA2010 limit, it will be considered as "clean" output.

The PB13 can produce 97.4dB at 12Hz if you ignore distortion. The FV15 can produce 98.5dB.

You might say, the PB13 is producing 92% distortion at 97.4dB. Yes, that's true. But look at the FV15. The output is limited by noise, not distortion. This means the FV15 is producing so much port noise that the output was limited by noise instead of distortion.

Most of the PB13's distortion is 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion, which is not really audible to the ear. Even at 92% distortion, I'd wager that it is still sounding cleaner than the Rythmik with its tiny 3'' port trying to cope with all that output.

I read the same thing when comparing the fv15 and the pb12+. From what i read these two subs are really close in real usable performance. Port noise was the biggest reason i grabbed the svs. And then a ultra after that.

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post #69 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 03:01 PM
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This
vs this



I know looks are not everything but come on thats night and day right? biggrin.gif

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post #70 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 03:11 PM
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These pictures aren't the same scale.

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post #71 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 03:17 PM
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The FV 15 driver is 30lbs and the svs 13.5 is almost 60lbs i think. So its two FV15 drivers in weight.

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post #72 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

The FV 15 driver is 30lbs and the svs 13.5 is almost 60lbs i think. So its two FV15 drivers in weight.


Exactly.... and that's just part of the difference. Then, you add the enclosure is heavier on the Ultra, you got the nicer finish, the Sledge DSP amp plate with the high quality parts, and that heavy-duty, sleek metal grill that attaches with magnets.

No one here disputes the FV15HP as a performer, it is phenomenal! And so is the PB13. But when you take into account everything else I mentioned above (and the fact that the Ultra is the cleaner, lower-distortion performer), the PB13 is a true flagship product and as such, it should be more expensive than the FV15HP. No question about it...

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post #73 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

Exactly.... and that's just part of the difference. Then, you add the enclosure is heavier on the Ultra, you got the nicer finish, the Sledge DSP amp plate with the high quality parts, and that heavy-duty, sleek metal grill that attaches with magnets.

No one here disputes the FV15HP as a performer, it is phenomenal! And so is the PB13. But when you take into account everything else I mentioned above (and the fact that the Ultra is the cleaner, lower-distortion performer), the PB13 is a true flagship product and as such, it should be more expensive than the FV15HP. No question about it...

I agree, everything I've read about these two subs leads to a completely satisfying experience but I will wait a little while before I take the plunge on either. Should probably be upgrading my front 3 first. Oh well, still glad I started this thread. I like all the different views out there.
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post #74 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

What receiver are you using? Was it challenging to get 3 subs sounding nicely? I asked SVS about adding a 3rd PB-2000 and they told me it's a challenge to setup 3 subs. I still kinda like the idea of having more than 2. You must have really even bass.

Not at all...and you might just be better off adding a 3rd PB2000, but I do not want to confuse ya. Yes my entire room is +/-3db seat to seat aside from a small spot in the middle of the room.
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post #75 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I'm trying to get a question answered and can't seem to find one ha. I currently have dual PB-2000s but I'm considering going to a PB13 Ultra. A second "down the road" is possible but it would be a very long road and I would have to live with one sub for a while.

My sealed room is roughly 2600cu ft. I keep hearing that the output on the ultra is staggering but my dual PB-2000s are no slouch either. I'm just trying to determine if the ultra will SOUND different/better than my subs now at the same volume level, during the same movie scene. Thanks for any replies.

If I were in your shoes I'd keep the dual PB-2000s rather than go with a single PB13 Ultra.

I'm a firm believer in multi-subs for the reason that they will equalize the bass better (so you get a flatter freq response) and this can make a real difference in room. In fact, I'd also suggest that you try placing one of your subs near field, this in my experience improves the "kick" substantially.

While there is no doubt the PB13 Ultra is significantly better than the PB-2000, with a single sub you can face challenges with the room acoustics. Two subs will give you more flexibility to play with sub positioning to get the flatter response. Don't forget to run Audyssey in your AVR smile.gif
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post #76 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Not at all...and you might just be better off adding a 3rd PB2000, but I do not want to confuse ya. Yes my entire room is +/-3db seat to seat aside from a small spot in the middle of the room.


Thanks basshead, I didn't think it'd be overly challenging to add another sub or two.  I've read many people have integrated more than 2 subs into all sizes of rooms with no issues.  I feel I'm at a point where I should either upgrade my front stage or add the third sub.  I don't think I can afford to do both at this time but I do believe I'll be keeping my two PB-2000s.  They really are great subs and I'm just too "dazzled" by the Ultra but unless I can get two at once I don't think I'd be as happy as I am now. 

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post #77 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post


If I were in your shoes I'd keep the dual PB-2000s rather than go with a single PB13 Ultra.

I'm a firm believer in multi-subs for the reason that they will equalize the bass better (so you get a flatter freq response) and this can make a real difference in room. In fact, I'd also suggest that you try placing one of your subs near field, this in my experience improves the "kick" substantially.

While there is no doubt the PB13 Ultra is significantly better than the PB-2000, with a single sub you can face challenges with the room acoustics. Two subs will give you more flexibility to play with sub positioning to get the flatter response. Don't forget to run Audyssey in your AVR smile.gif


I believe you're right, I may in fact be adding a third sub and could use that as my near field "kick" which would be all I'd need.  It's very helpful getting insight on these topics from everyone.  I don't consider myself a noob when it comes to home theater but there's plenty I've learned from reading/participating in threads on the forums. 

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post #78 of 103 Old 03-01-2014, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

If I were in your shoes I'd keep the dual PB-2000s rather than go with a single PB13 Ultra.

I'm a firm believer in multi-subs for the reason that they will equalize the bass better (so you get a flatter freq response) and this can make a real difference in room. In fact, I'd also suggest that you try placing one of your subs near field, this in my experience improves the "kick" substantially.

While there is no doubt the PB13 Ultra is significantly better than the PB-2000, with a single sub you can face challenges with the room acoustics. Two subs will give you more flexibility to play with sub positioning to get the flatter response. Don't forget to run Audyssey in your AVR smile.gif
I agree with this. A 3rd 2000 will be a nice upgrade and save you a ton of money and hassle. 3rd sub was the charm for me. I'm sure 4 Is even better but I have no need or desire for more. If 3 doesn't do it for you then send it back and order a ultra.

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post #79 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I agree with this. A 3rd 2000 will be a nice upgrade and save you a ton of money and hassle. 3rd sub was the charm for me. I'm sure 4 Is even better but I have no need or desire for more. If 3 doesn't do it for you then send it back and order a ultra.

Oh I'm sure 3 of these in a room just under 2600cu ft should satisfy me for years to come. I'm glad you like having 3, it's nice to hear from others with more than 2 subs.
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post #80 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 05:21 AM
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Oh I'm sure 3 of these in a room just under 2600cu ft should satisfy me for years to come. I'm glad you like having 3, it's nice to hear from others with more than 2 subs.

I would have 4 if I had the room...4 subs can effectively smooth all room modes plus it would look even more badass then 3 cool.gif
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post #81 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 08:38 AM
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My room is about 2500sqft sealed, and I can tell you a dual PB-12Plus is very capable in this size of the room. And easily extend -3db down to 13-14hz (in 16hz mode).



I too is a firm believer of multi-sub vs single. No matter how bad a$$ the sub is, if you are sitting in a null, you ain't gonna feel any bass at all. Either a perfect sub location to the MLP or multiple subs is the way to go. If the current dual sub setup/location totally smoothed out your room mode, I would recommend upgrade to dual PB/PC 12-Plus. If not, a third PB2000 might be a better way to go then.
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post #82 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I would have 4 if I had the room...4 subs can effectively smooth all room modes plus it would look even more badass then 3 cool.gif

Fortunately space isn't an issue for me, just funds ha but I wonder what a sub in each corner would do smile.gif
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post #83 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

My room is about 2500sqft sealed, and I can tell you a hdual PB-12Plus is very capable in this size of the room. And easily extend -3db down to 13-14hz (in 16hz mode).



I too is a firm believer of multi-sub vs single. No matter how bad a$$ the sub is, if you are sitting in a null, you ain't gonna feel any bass at all. Either a perfect sub location to the MLP or multiple subs is the way to go. If the current dual sub setup/location totally smoothed out your room mode, I would recommend upgrade to dual PB/PC 12-Plus. If not, a third PB2000 might be a better way to go then.
Thank you for the graph, that's good to know.
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post #84 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

My room is about 2500sqft sealed, and I can tell you a dual PB-12Plus is very capable in this size of the room. And easily extend -3db down to 13-14hz (in 16hz mode).



I too is a firm believer of multi-sub vs single. No matter how bad a$$ the sub is, if you are sitting in a null, you ain't gonna feel any bass at all. Either a perfect sub location to the MLP or multiple subs is the way to go. If the current dual sub setup/location totally smoothed out your room mode, I would recommend upgrade to dual PB/PC 12-Plus. If not, a third PB2000 might be a better way to go then.

What about if you are limited in where you can place the sub(s)? In my case either one PB12-Plus in the corner or two PB-2000's as stands for the main L&R speakers. If the location of the two subs doesn't remove any null(s), would the corner loaded Plus be better?

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post #85 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 03:00 PM
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What about if you are limited in where you can place the sub(s)? In my case either one PB12-Plus in the corner or two PB-2000's as stands for the main L&R speakers. If the location of the two subs doesn't remove any null(s), would the corner loaded Plus be better?
It depends if the MLP is at the or near idea position. If you aren't sitting in a null or experiencing any room mode, in regards of the single corner load position, then a single PB12-Plus would be a better choice. However, if your MLP is at a null, a dual subwoofer (e.g. PB2000) spread them out away to each other might help you even out the room mode thus helping your MLP to "experience" a better bass. Or better yet, put one up front at the TV wall, and another one behind you or somewhere else, would be the best solution to combat any room mode problem.
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post #86 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

My room is about 2500sqft sealed, and I can tell you a dual PB-12Plus is very capable in this size of the room. And easily extend -3db down to 13-14hz (in 16hz mode).



I too is a firm believer of multi-sub vs single. No matter how bad a$$ the sub is, if you are sitting in a null, you ain't gonna feel any bass at all. Either a perfect sub location to the MLP or multiple subs is the way to go. If the current dual sub setup/location totally smoothed out your room mode, I would recommend upgrade to dual PB/PC 12-Plus. If not, a third PB2000 might be a better way to go then.

I think its best to start with one and then add them tell your happy. You never know you could get lucky and have that perfect spot and lp (unlikely but possible). I sadly have not been that lucky.

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post #87 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I think its best to start with one and then add them tell your happy. You never know you could get lucky and have that perfect spot and lp (unlikely but possible). I sadly have not been that lucky.

I'm not unhappy with my current setup, just wonder what "more" would sound like but even in my somewhat modest room I don't see the need to ever go to the cinema again which just rocks. Can't stand the annoying crowds. It's truly amazing what a nice subwoofer/s can do to your system. I'm in need of a front sound stage upgrade but even with the entry level polks I have the sensation of being at the movies is worth all the work put into building the theater. Eventually I'll get around to posting my before and after pics but I have been curious about my bass.
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post #88 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

Fortunately space isn't an issue for me, just funds ha but I wonder what a sub in each corner would do smile.gif

It would be amazing!! Order another pair asap... smile.gif
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post #89 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I'm not unhappy with my current setup, just wonder what "more" would sound like but even in my somewhat modest room I don't see the need to ever go to the cinema again which just rocks. Can't stand the annoying crowds. It's truly amazing what a nice subwoofer/s can do to your system. I'm in need of a front sound stage upgrade but even with the entry level polks I have the sensation of being at the movies is worth all the work put into building the theater. Eventually I'll get around to posting my before and after pics but I have been curious about my bass.


Can you put a sub behind your lp (like my pic below)? I run two up front and the one in back. Imo this works really well in both feeling the bass and the sound is really nice.


Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and Heresy II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
SC-55 elite and B&K 200.7 S2
JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
Oppo BDP-103 9 ATS Acoustic panels
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post #90 of 103 Old 03-02-2014, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

Can you put a sub behind your lp (like my pic below)? I run two up front and the one in back. Imo this works really well in both feeling the bass and the sound is really nice.



Reference_head.... nice looking room, btw. That PB13 right behind your couch must be gut-wrenching smile.gif

To the OP, I would totally recommend you try one of your pb-2000 nearfield before making any further upgrade/purchasing decision.

| Panasonic TC-P65S2 HD Plasma | Oppo BDP-93 | Paradigm Studio 100's v2 (mains) | Paradigm Studio CC-690 v5 (center) | Paradigm ADP-370 v3 (sides surr.) | Paradigm Studio 20's v2 (sides + back surr.) | SVS PB13-Ultra(x3) | Marantz AV-8801 pre/pro | Emotiva XPA-5 (x2) |
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