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post #481 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
What kinda speaker is it? Active 3-way?
It is a horn loaded 2 way, with dual 12" drivers in a horn, with a coaxialy mounted planar mid tweeter in the horn mouth.
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post #482 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Funk Audio View Post
It is a horn loaded 2 way, with dual 12" drivers in a horn, with a coaxialy mounted planar mid tweeter in the horn mouth.
Well, that sounds like it would be an easy thing to design and engineer.
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post #483 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Funk Audio View Post
It is a horn loaded 2 way, with dual 12" drivers in a horn, with a coaxialy mounted planar mid tweeter in the horn mouth.
Don't forget to mention they come with power amps

Soooooo excited!

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post #484 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 01:18 PM
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Here's a pic, it's the only one I have
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post #485 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Funk Audio View Post
It is a horn loaded 2 way, with dual 12" drivers in a horn, with a coaxialy mounted planar mid tweeter in the horn mouth.
WOW! That sounds like it will be a lot of fun. Congratulations newC33. I look forward to hearing your impressions on them. When will they be completed?
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post #486 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 01:37 PM
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Anything with a horn is a PITA to get right, and from the description/appearance of that beast it seems like Nathan made his job even harder.

 
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post #487 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Anything with a horn is a PITA to get right, and from the description/appearance of that beast it seems like Nathan made his job even harder.
Yeah that's true from my understanding. But of the few people who can pull it off I believe Nathan is one them.
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post #488 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 03:03 PM
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The goal of something like that is suuuuper clean reference volume right? Or is there benefits at lower levels as well?
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post #489 of 891 Old 03-03-2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
WOW! That sounds like it will be a lot of fun. Congratulations newC33. I look forward to hearing your impressions on them. When will they be completed?
My understanding is approximately 3 months

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post #490 of 891 Old 03-12-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
This is one of the most beautiful subs iv ever seen. Walnut crotch if I'm correct...? I thought you said that in a previous post. I'm not kidding man when I say this might be the best looking sub I haver seen considering my personal tastes! Just WOW!

And to think people think the pb and sb ultra subs look sexy..... PSSSHHHHHH!
Wow those look amazing. Congrats. I know I love my pair of 18.0 in Curly Walnut.
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post #491 of 891 Old 03-20-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
The goal of something like that is suuuuper clean reference volume right? Or is there benefits at lower levels as well?


The two 12” drivers are mounted symmetrically into one common horn, that operates from 80-1000 hz with very high efficiency and massive output, each is capable of aprox 135db continuous at 1 meter ground plane with very little compression and distortion. The goal was to have the most dynamic sound at nearly any output, especially in the mid/upper bass range, 100-300hz, where many systems have trouble keeping up. When running at levels most capable speakers max out at these have immeasurable distortion and compression, so they track every dynamic peak perfectly. Then to blend into the mid/tweeter we have it mounted “coaxially” and time aligned in the DSP, with the horn mouth, meaning the wavefront coming from the horn mouth combines perfectly with the one from the mid/tweeter. Normally with horns operating up to that high is is very difficult to get the crossover to blend with what is taking over as the size of the horn mouth prevents mounting them with close enough “acoustical centers” and you end up with lobeing and odd off axis responses. With what we have done you can get the benefits of the horn without the drawbacks, and in fact have better off axis control than many conventional speakers.

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post #492 of 891 Old 03-20-2017, 11:57 AM
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Just reading this makes me even more excited to hear them! ^^^^^

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post #493 of 891 Old 03-20-2017, 05:25 PM
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I'm joining the club! I ordered (2) subs from Nathan using the UH21 drivers with his plate amp setup as a master/slave. I'm pretty excited to get these beasts. No fancy finish for this guy. Just basic black for me. Can't see 'em anyway when the lights are turned off.
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post #494 of 891 Old 03-26-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jtwrace View Post
I'm joining the club! I ordered (2) subs from Nathan using the UH21 drivers with his plate amp setup as a master/slave. I'm pretty excited to get these beasts. No fancy finish for this guy. Just basic black for me. Can't see 'em anyway when the lights are turned off.
I'm the same way, basic black is fine for me. I love the high end finishes Nathan makes but in my dedicated room I can't justify spending a premium for it. If I was putting this stuff in my family room I would prolly consider a premium finish. Maybe one day I'll add a 2 channel system downstairs and spend the extra coin. Problem is that I can't stop spending money on my dedicated room lol

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post #495 of 891 Old 04-01-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by newc33 View Post


I'm the same way, basic black is fine for me. I love the high end finishes Nathan makes but in my dedicated room I can't justify spending a premium for it. If I was putting this stuff in my family room I would prolly consider a premium finish. Maybe one day I'll add a 2 channel system downstairs and spend the extra coin. Problem is that I can't stop spending money on my dedicated room lol
Did you order up some UH21 subs too?
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post #496 of 891 Old 04-01-2017, 01:23 PM
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Did you order up some UH21 subs too?
Hahahaha no I didn't but I'm sure 21 inch horns would be sweet. I'm tapped out in the sub department plus I LOVE my t18s

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post #497 of 891 Old 04-01-2017, 02:05 PM
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^^ I see what you mean, I thought you were joking about a 21 inch version of the 15h I didn't realize the uh21 was the name of the driver

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post #498 of 891 Old 04-02-2017, 07:05 AM
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^^ I see what you mean, I thought you were joking about a 21 inch version of the 15h I didn't realize the uh21 was the name of the driver
Yes, the UH21V1 is the latest sub driver but obviously a well kept secret. ;-)
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post #499 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 07:16 AM
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I got bored last night, so I decided to do a little "real world" data collection with my FW18.0 using CEA-2010 bursts I downloaded from Brent Butterworth's website (20Hz-63Hz) along with Omnimic. If nothing else, I figured it could help me justify an upgrade to a bigger, badder subwoofer Doesn't look like it will work out that way though...

To preface... according to Brent's page, the bursts are recorded at -1dBFS, and in a standard stereo MP3 file. By my reckoning (and data), that suggests played back on a properly calibrated system, I should read a peak level of 110dB at the seats at full reference output (104dB + 104dB). For this test, I boosted the sub level by a further 10dB, which would peg reference level at a peak of 120dB, which is about 3dB off a theoretical "worst case scenario", and by my reckoning, probably about as bad as a real world soundtrack would really get. Further, I boosted the sub level an additional ~5dB because well... I like it a little hot.

The first run of CEA bursts was run at a master volume level of -25dB from reference, equating to an expected output level of 100dB (110dB+15dB boosting-25dB MV). The results were:
20Hz: 94.5dB
25Hz: 98.0dB
31.5Hz: 100.0dB
40Hz: 100.9dB
50Hz: 100.4dB
63Hz: 99.7dB

This is the baseline response I run, and consists of cutting a peak in the response around 45Hz, and filling in a dip around 63Hz, and little else.

The second run was taken at a master volume level of -10dB from reference, equating to a nominal level of 115dB. Results were:
20Hz: 110.2dB
25Hz: 113.0dB
31.5Hz: 114.9dB
40Hz: 115.7dB
50Hz: 115.1dB
63Hz: 113.9dB

Only thing of note was 0.8dB of compression at 63Hz, which seems to be little more than a blip going by the next run at -5dB from reference (120dB nominal level):
20Hz: 115.7dB
25Hz: 118.0dB
31.5Hz: 119.5dB
40Hz: 121.2dB
50Hz: 120.7dB
63Hz: 118.8dB

Pretty much a perfect 5dB rise across the board relative to the previous run...

So as it relates to my actual usage.... A MV level of -10dB is really about the limit for me these days (usually -20dB or under when the family is present). Needless to say, it just got a little harder for me to justify an upgrade to myself beyond the "but I want it..." factor. As is, it would appear that my system can comfortably deliver those levels with a useful amount of headroom to spare. I did run a few bursts with another 3dB on the MV, and there was still further output to be had. However, the 120dB nominal sweep appears to be close enough to the limits that it's probably best to leave anything further on the table.

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post #500 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 10:39 AM
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Needless to say, it just got a little harder for me to justify an upgrade to myself beyond the "but I want it..." factor. As is, it would appear that my system can comfortably deliver those levels with a useful amount of headroom to spare. I did run a few bursts with another 3dB on the MV, and there was still further output to be had. However, the 120dB nominal sweep appears to be close enough to the limits that it's probably best to leave anything further on the table.
By exploring the option that infers you have the finances to do it, so a huge hurdle has been disposed of immediately. That leaves want versus need, and we all know how that will end; you're gonna do it. You'll think about it, waffle back and forth, decide to than decide not to than decide to again, but in the end common sense/rational thought/sensible behavior will all lose. Why not just cut to the chase and call Nathan? Save yourself some time.
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post #501 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 11:49 AM
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You'll think about it, waffle back and forth, decide to than decide not to than decide to again, but in the end common sense/rational thought/sensible behavior will all lose. Why not just cut to the chase and call Nathan? Save yourself some time.
While funds and even wife approval aren't insurmountable problems (within reason), space is a big challenge for me at the moment. I don't have room for a second 18.0, and the uber-subs that would represent a worthwhile upgrade from the 18.0 I have are either prohibitively expensive or some combination of huge/heavy/ugly. So far, the only halfway viable idea I've had is a master/slave setup of Seaton F2s.

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post #502 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 01:08 PM
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You could contact Nathan and see if he is planning anything in a larger than 21" diameter.....

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post #503 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 01:36 PM
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I'm surprised you guys don't think the UH21V1 driver isn't a step-up from the 18.0.
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post #504 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 02:03 PM
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I'm surprised you guys don't think the UH21V1 driver isn't a step-up from the 18.0.
Well so is a 21.0. The UH21 is targeting different things. I think I'd probably go for a normal 21.0 myself as the sound signature would seem to be more musical in my mind. The UH21 is probably better for movies? Or am I getting the responses mixed up.

Either way, I was under the impression the UH21 was not so much an upgrade as a different tune.

Or am I mixing up drivers?
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post #505 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 03:05 PM
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Not really a question of whether the 21.0 or 21UH would be a step up, so much as whether they would be enough of a step up to warrant going through the effort and expense of the upgrade process. From what I've seen on DB of the 21.0, the thought of making that trade doesn't really excite me, and that's what it'll take given where I currently sit. The 18.2 would be more the ticket in that respect, but it's too rich for my blood.
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post #506 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 04:35 PM
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First thing I would do is see how low your 18.0 will go maintaining that in room output, if it cant keep up with itself down to ~10hz, than you would see an improvement with something that has more low end and eq down for a lower extension.

I think there is a little confusion as to how the options stack up;

The 21.0 has an average of 3db more output over the 18.0, so that's about %50 "more sub" but it is twice the price, mind you is basically the same size so performance "density" is better.

The 21.0L for only slightly more than the 18.0 offers more like an average of 6db more under 40hz, yes more than the 21.0, and about the same over 40hz just a little less, but it is twice the size.

The UH21v1 driver is new and we were going to offer simply as an upgrade for the 21.0L, but it also allows for a smaller enclosure, about halfway between the 21.0L and the 18.0/21.0, so we are going to make it its own product, the 21.0LX. The driver has a combination of the long linear travel of the 21.0L driver with the high motor force of the 21.0, making it a great hybrid. It has much improved distortion under 30hz, so compared to the 21.0L it has about the same output 20-40hz but more under 20hz, and compared to the 18.0 is has about the same just a little more over 40hz.

Then we are also doing a 24.0, just working on the first one now, this will use the 21.0L enclosure, the UHv1 motor, and the 2x2400 watt amp from the 21.0. It will only cost a little bit more than the 21.0, but it will offer over 6db more output than the 18.0 from 30-100hz, and nearly 10db more under 30hz.
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First thing I would do is see how low your 18.0 will go maintaining that in room output, if it cant keep up with itself down to ~10hz, than you would see an improvement with something that has more low end and eq down for a lower extension.

I think there is a little confusion as to how the options stack up;

The 21.0 has an average of 3db more output over the 18.0, so that's about %50 "more sub" but it is twice the price, mind you is basically the same size so performance "density" is better.

The 21.0L for only slightly more than the 18.0 offers more like an average of 6db more under 40hz, yes more than the 21.0, and about the same over 40hz just a little less, but it is twice the size.

The UH21v1 driver is new and we were going to offer simply as an upgrade for the 21.0L, but it also allows for a smaller enclosure, about halfway between the 21.0L and the 18.0/21.0, so we are going to make it its own product, the 21.0LX. The driver has a combination of the long linear travel of the 21.0L driver with the high motor force of the 21.0, making it a great hybrid. It has much improved distortion under 30hz, so compared to the 21.0L it has about the same output 20-40hz but more under 20hz, and compared to the 18.0 is has about the same just a little more over 40hz.

Then we are also doing a 24.0, just working on the first one now, this will use the 21.0L enclosure, the UHv1 motor, and the 2x2400 watt amp from the 21.0. It will only cost a little bit more than the 21.0, but it will offer over 6db more output than the 18.0 from 30-100hz, and nearly 10db more under 30hz.
WOW! Maybe my third sub should be the 24.0
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post #508 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 04:55 PM
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WOW! Maybe my third sub should be the 24.0
@Funk Audio
How much bigger will the 24.0 be than the 21.0LX (UH21V1)?
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post #509 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 04:56 PM
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WOW! Maybe my third sub should be the 24.0
I understood you were limited on space, the 24.0 needs to be the same size as the 21.0L, that is a good bit bigger than the 21.0LX, unless you wanted to go with what could/would finally supersede the 18.2 as our flagship sub, that would be a really crazy concept 24" we have on the drawing board now, that compared to the 24.0 would have 50% more travel, twice the power(can you say 10" voice coil), and should be able to be in a little smaller enclosure than the 24.0, although it would be more than twice the price.

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post #510 of 891 Old 04-07-2017, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Audio View Post
I understood you were limited on space, the 24.0 needs to be a good bit larger than the 21.0LX, unless you wanted to go with what could/would finally supersede the 18.2 as our flagship sub, that would be a really crazy concept 24" we have on the drawing board now, that compared to the 24.0 would have 50% more travel, twice the power(can you say 10" voice coil), and should be able to be in a little smaller enclosure than the 24.0, although it would be more than twice the price.
I am limited on space....I still want dimensions as this setup isn't forever. Also, once I get the (2) 21.0LX integrated that will dictate what (if any) is next for this room. Doesn't mean I don't want the info!

Last edited by jtwrace; 04-07-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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