When is it too much bass? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 72 Old 01-23-2015, 03:23 PM
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Dual T-18s at my house, hitting 125db bass peaks (around 20hz) last night (at -15MV) at around 10:00PM....no knocks on the door, yet.
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post #32 of 72 Old 01-23-2015, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Dual T-18s at my house, hitting 125db bass peaks (around 20hz) last night (at -15MV) at around 10:00PM....no knocks on the door, yet.
running those subs super hot huh?
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post #33 of 72 Old 01-23-2015, 04:09 PM
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When is it too much bass?

Friday's of course!

I plan on continuing the tradition of too much bass Friday's this evening.
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post #34 of 72 Old 01-23-2015, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Dual T-18s at my house, hitting 125db bass peaks (around 20hz) last night (at -15MV) at around 10:00PM....no knocks on the door, yet.
How would you hear anyone knocking? lol
I can see someone now banging on your door, and Alan looks at his wife and says "Yeah, these subs is banging now" lol


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post #35 of 72 Old 01-23-2015, 09:17 PM
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I have 4 FTW21's* in an apartment and have yet to have a complaint. I listen at 'comfortable' levels. My theory is that because movie SFX seldom have a discernible beat like music, that they are heard by others as an odd noise and not localised to my place.

* Definite overkill for this place, but I also have a much larger house in a rural area that the system was designed for.
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post #36 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Dual T-18s at my house, hitting 125db bass peaks (around 20hz) last night (at -15MV) at around 10:00PM....no knocks on the door, yet.
so 25db hot on the subs..? wow!!

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post #37 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
How would you hear anyone knocking? lol
I can see someone now banging on your door, and Alan looks at his wife and says "Yeah, these subs is banging now" lol
haha...good one Red! : )
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post #38 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 12:10 PM
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"to much bass"? Not sure what that means. I can barley hear my stereo at full boar outside my house. I have 12 ported Ht18s.
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post #39 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
"to much bass"? Not sure what that means. I can barley hear my stereo at full boar outside my house. I have 12 ported Ht18s.
Well, it could be when cops or angry neighbors are banging on your door. Or it could be when you start getting structural damage.


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post #40 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
I can barley hear my stereo at full boar outside my house. I have 12 ported Ht18s.
You don't have enough subs then
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post #41 of 72 Old 01-24-2015, 06:33 PM
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Seems when I get to this point it will be about right.



Working on the next one...
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post #42 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 01:54 PM
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Never too much bass. Just poor placement, bad equalization, or a low quality sub.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #43 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh so if you have 150 dB of bass that wouldn't be too much? lol


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post #44 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I would say that if your neighbors are complaining while they were outside during the middle of the day too bad for them! I mean a lawn mower or any kind of outside device is louder but that is ok? Really? Don't start your car, it might be too loud LOL!


I am fortunate to have a concrete bunker below ground and you can not hear much if anything outside my house. I don't even wake up the kids at 2 am with 130 dBs of bass. I bought my house knowing it had a great setup for a HT.
I agree man, some people want to complain JUST because it's a sound system making the noise; if it were an obnoxiously loud Harley or a lawnmower, nobody would say anything at all, and that type of noise is a constant loudness, unlike an occasional explosion, gunfight, or michael bay's signature Transformers bass sweep in a movie. Everyone turns into a cranky 80 year old cat lady when you have an ample surround sound system, but no other time.
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post #45 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Oh so if you have 150 dB of bass that wouldn't be too much? lol
Hmm.. 6 submersives in my smallish room..... maybe I just might at higher frequencies!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #46 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 07:31 PM
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Bass shakers will help get you some palpable vibrations while making the night sounds bearable for neighbors. They can be used reasonably well with 20-60hz range sound. I would turn it up just enough to feel it, and don't make them distracting.

You really need to set them up using a different output/delay than your subwoofer's channel otherwise you can't adjust the delay appropriately.

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post #47 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 09:26 PM
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150 db of anything is way to much.
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post #48 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Bass shakers will help get you some palpable vibrations while making the night sounds bearable for neighbors. They can be used reasonably well with 20-60hz range sound. I would turn it up just enough to feel it, and don't make them distracting.

You really need to set them up using a different output/delay than your subwoofer's channel otherwise you can't adjust the delay appropriately.
Funny you mention that, because I was just reading about those today. Either the Butt kicker shakers or the Crowson Tactical Actuator. But I kind of like the Crowson better.


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post #49 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
150 db of anything is way to much.
I agree. But I think some people on here don't really think about there is a limit before you can start to do damage to your ears.



Exposure Time Guidelines

Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBAs over 85dBA, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.




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post #50 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is some interesting comparisons. I have heard Top Fuel Dragsters (163 dB) and they car very loud. I can imagine the battleship guns firing all its 16 inch guns at once that is listed (215 dB) at the bottom how loud that is.
I also remember reading of someone on here saying they felt nausea and there visions was blurry watching a movie. According to this, they must have been hitting 140 dB.

10dB Absolute silence
13dB Incandescent light bulb hum
15dB Pin drop from a height of 1 centimetre heard at a distance of 1 meter
30dB Totally quiet night time in desert
40dB Whispering
60dB Normal conversation
85dB Beginning of hearing damage range, earplugs should be worn
100dB Normal average car or house stereo at maximum volume
110dB Car stereo with two 6 x 9” speakers and 100 watts
116dB Human body begins to perceive vibration from low frequencies
120dB Front row at a rock concert
125dB Drums, at the moment of striking
130dB Typical professional DJ system
127dB Tinnitus (ringing in the ears) begins. Permanent hearing loss
128dB Loudest human scream
130dB Marching band of 200 members
132dB Eardrum vibration noticeable
133dB Gunshot
135dB “Very loud” street car stereo. Bass only
140dB Threshold of pain, all frequencies
140dB Hearing protection required (definite long term damage)
140dB human throat and vocal cord resonance occurs
141dB Nausea felt after a few minutes
144dB Nose itches due to hair vibrations
145dB Vision blurs due to eyeball vibration
147dB Formula 1 race car full throttle drive bye
149dB Human lungs and breathing begins vibrating to the sound
150dB Loud rock concert, at speakers
150dB Sensation of being compressed as if underwater
152dB Vibration is painful and felt in joints
153dB Throat vibrating so hard it is impossible to swallow
154dB Compression will burst child’s balloon
155dB Experience cooling from excited air movement, up to 15 degree C perceived cooling
158dB Inside of a rock concert speaker bin with 5000 watts power
160dB Flashlight exhibits electromagnetic pulsing (dimming during tone)
163dB NHRA Top Fuel Dragsters- 5000 to 7000 horsepower
163dB Possible glass breaking level
164dB Internal sound pressure of a large jet turbine
165dB Jet airplane, Example: Boeing 727, at take off
170.75dB = 1 pound per square inch
172dB Fog is created, depending on the temperature, dew point and humidity
174dB Air begins to heat up due to compression
175dB Quarter dynamite stick, very close pressure may exceed 210 db.
177dB = 2 pound per square inch
180dB 1 pound TNT at 15 feet
181.6dB Loudest extreme SPL car in the world
183dB = 6 PSI. On large scale would result in total destruction of all structures, and particle velocity of 180 miles per hour.
191dB 1 lb. bomb or grenade at blast epicentre
193.979dB 1 bar pressure, 14.504 pounds per square inch
195dB Human eardrums rupture
202dB Death from sound wave (shock) alone.
210.6dB Earthquake Richter scale equivalent 2.0
213dB Sonic boom generates approximately 1.2 gigawatts power equivalent
215dB Space shuttle launches exhaust, approximately 3 miles per second
215dB Battleship New Jersey firing all 9 sixteen inch guns
216dB Equivalent to a piston engine cylinder with a 9 to 1 compression ratio
235.19dB Earthquake Richter 5.0 or 31,624 tons of TNT


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post #51 of 72 Old 01-25-2015, 11:45 PM
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I've been outside without hearing protection when a ship fired off it's 8" gun. That was so loud I know it caused permanent hearing damage to me. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near ONE 16" gun going off WITH hearing protection, let alone all 9. Inconceivable!

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
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post #52 of 72 Old 01-26-2015, 05:24 AM
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Remember, we are talking about only low frequency here, human ears can expose to higher db with bass. I don't know what the limit is.
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post #53 of 72 Old 01-26-2015, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
running those subs super hot huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
so 25db hot on the subs..? wow!!
I was seeing the 125db peaks in REW's RTA playing the Lightbike scene in Tron:Legacy....I may not have had it set up right though.

However, I am running the subs pretty hot (because I can ), but only around 6-8db AFAIK.
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post #54 of 72 Old 01-26-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Remember, we are talking about only low frequency here, human ears can expose to higher db with bass. I don't know what the limit is.
This is a great question.
I have been exposed to some high output (150dB+) low frequencies (<30Hz). I have not suffered hearing damage. It did not seem to hurt my ears. It was fascinating that it blurs your vision and breathing becomes difficult.
I can also tell you that 150 dB at 100Hz is really uncomfortable for me, even with earplugs.

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post #55 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Dual T-18s at my house, hitting 125db bass peaks (around 20hz) last night (at -15MV) at around 10:00PM....no knocks on the door, yet.
Re-tested last night with my trusty digital SPL meter and was consistently hitting ~105db peaks at -15MV (not 125db ). I just used some bass demo clips from here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...demo-disc.html

This is with DynEQ on and subs running ~5db hot. Sound about right?
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post #56 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I agree. But I think some people on here don't really think about there is a limit before you can start to do damage to your ears.



Exposure Time Guidelines

Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBAs over 85dBA, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.


That chart is irrelevant to c-weighted low frequencies. However yes 150db+ of bass can take its toll on your ears if you could even stand to put up with it. I have been around some pretty capable systems both home and car, I will say anything over 130db gets uncomfortable. A system capable of 120db is all one really needs. I am talking about low frequencies here..high frequencies, anything over 105db gets obnoxious.
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post #57 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by eaamon View Post
remember, most people do not hear below 23Hz. some that say they do are only hearing distortions on their personal equipment.
Humans can hear well into the teens. It just requires much higher SPLs to be able to hear it. You are correct that in most cases what we hear from our systems is the distortion or objects rattling caused by those lower frequencies. However, this does not mean we are unable to hear them. Under ideal, controlled laboratory conditions, humans can hear down to 12Hz (Olson, Harry F. (1967). Music, Physics and Engineering. Dover Publications. p. 249. ISBN 0-486-21769-8).

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I was at a home theater meet once and brought the realtraps audio test CD with me (link to that search out HT101.) it starts at 10Hz and on up....every 10 seconds to the next Hz. the session holder put it in his player and all was quiet. then suddenly at 15Hz I said something is vibrating in your kitchen. he ran to find out it was his wife's window at her kitchen sink. one of those that sticks out side so she could put flowers in it. the shelves were vibrating. no body could hear any other sounds, and it became quite a conversation as I explained what was going on. then at 18Hz a wall that had several glass framed pictures hanging on it started shaking in his theater room. he and another HT guy there in attendance they both grabbed onto and held the picture frames hoping to isolate the culprit. the other attendee started laughing and said, "hey dude it is not the pictures vibrating it is your whole wall dude!" funny how one $1000 sub could do that and nobody heard any other sound. next thing I know he wanted to buy another matching sub. I do not think I could even talk him out of that. hahahahahaha
One $1000 sub will probably not be able to produce the required SPL to be able to hear the 10Hz/15Hz frequencies unless you were in a room the size of a closet unless it was a HUGE ported or horn type enclosure.
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post #58 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 02:06 PM
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@kevings , you are one lucky guy with an awesome wife.

As to the original question from the OP, I've walked around my house with everything closed while playing low frequency sweeps at 110dB and could only hear minor rattling of my house from 5' away. I've spoken to my neighbors and they don't hear anything in their houses either. I only asked my neighbors going two houses away. Every few months I'll ask them again if I see them and for the last few years none of them have had any issues. My neighbors' houses are at most 20' from either side of my house. My theater room is in the middle of my house so that helps.
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post #59 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
@kevings , you are one lucky guy with an awesome wife.

As to the original question from the OP, I've walked around my house with everything closed while playing low frequency sweeps at 110dB and could only hear minor rattling of my house from 5' away. I've spoken to my neighbors and they don't hear anything in their houses either. I only asked my neighbors going two houses away. Every few months I'll ask them again if I see them and for the last few years none of them have had any issues. My neighbors' houses are at most 20' from either side of my house. My theater room is in the middle of my house so that helps.
That's encouraging. Thanks for the report.


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post #60 of 72 Old 01-27-2015, 03:20 PM
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My Omni S-12 250 watt down-firing port subwoofer and 90w/Ch 6.1 receiver in the living room of the house with 93dB sensitivity towers are barely audible from the driveway even though the subwoofer and mains are against the front wall of the house.

That is with the volume so high inside that it is uncomfortable to listen to and the subwoofer is doing some 'waffing' on the explosions, probably limiting. It is not a highly capable sub but very decent for the $100 used price I paid. Sorry, that receiver does not do relative dBs so not sure where that is in respect to reference.

The building has dual pane windows and is fully insulated. First floor of two stories on a footing with crawlspace and no basement of any sort here in CA.

My dual SVS PB10's and 11.1 with six towers in my apartment never even warm up or I will be evicted. Total system power is 600W sub plus 800W receiver/amp. That system is way overbuilt for the space but is sounds great. No complaints from anyone yet but I try not to push it too much. Even reference is not much power in this small space so I suppose I could make ears bleed if I really wanted to. I usually listen at no more than -15dB and only on quiet programming. The couple of times I dared a movie at reference with dynamic range control off the whole apartment shook.

Like in everything involving real estate the answer is 'location location location'.

I suppose once hearing damage sets in one could be said to have 'too much'. Somewhere I read that auto bassheads playing rap that buckled the pavement are getting traumatic brain injury from long term exposure to excessive bass. That might be a good point to stop at.
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