PSA V1500 vs. S3000i: My Big Room Challenge - Page 3 - AVS Forum

bwilberg266 · 03-28-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

I also have a V1500 in an open living room. Try this and let me know what you think; Run Audyssey with the Room Size set to Small. Then after running Audyssey turn the Room size back up to Large. Sounds GREAT in my room. I'm curious to what others think of this.

I'm gonna go try this on my S3000i - I'll let you know what I think. It is funny though how low MCACC wants me to have my dial set, kept turning it down lower and lower until it was at about 9-10 o'clock before it was ok with the levels.

nalthien · 03-28-2015, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwilberg266

I'm gonna go try this on my S3000i - I'll let you know what I think. It is funny though how low MCACC wants me to have my dial set, kept turning it down lower and lower until it was at about 9-10 o'clock before it was ok with the levels.

What you're aiming for is having the out put around 75dB to calibrate. So long as Audyssey or MCACC doesn't fully boost or fully dial-down your sub, the setting is correct.

nalthien · 03-28-2015, 12:24 PM

Got around to some music listening this morning. So far the verdict is: the response is impressive; but, I still have some real work to do!

The bad (not the fault of the product): Music revealed that my current placement is not ideal. Rather than sub crawling at this point, I'm going to wait for my mic to arrive to take measurements. I noticed two key problems: moving to a seating position outside of the MLP was creating a "rounder" response. It wasn't necessarily a good thing (it wasn't as crisp)--but the output was definitely higher. The second issue was that, with certain music, I found the sub highly localizable. I'm actually not sure what the best approach is for dealing with that issue so I'd love to get some input!

The good: Output was awesome and the tightness was, by far, the best I've ever heard from a ported enclosure. For the first time ever, I really was able to believe the statement that a ported enclosure can deliver the tight, crisp response usually associated with a sealed cabinet. On a couple of tracks, I did notice some odd muddiness--but I'm not fully convinced that was anything other than a placement / EQ issue. Again, digging deep was fantastic for some of the hip-hop and electro-pop music--I was again hearing things I'd never heard before!

Overall I am really impressed with the V1500 for music so far. I've got a lot of tracks left to hear; but, I haven't found anything so far that seems to test the musicality of this ported enclosure.

craig john · 03-28-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nalthien

Finally home from my business trip and had a chance to listen tonight. Before I left, I had hooked things up--but I didn't even have a chance to run Audyssey before I left. I had watched some of Big Hero 6 with my kids and certainly felt the potential--even though things were not where they needed to be. Unfortunately, no measurements yet as my UMIK-1 and miniDSP were shipped with my S3000i (scheduled to arrive Tuesday).

Tonight, I got home, ran Audyssey and made the following adjustments:

Changed the L+R Speakers to "Small"
Moved the crossover from 40hz to 80hz

Audyssey had calibrated the Subwoofer to -4dB with the gain between the 9:00 and 10:00 positions. I decided to leave it alone. My wife and I popped in Iron Man.

First impressions: this thing digs deep! Even in my big room, the impact was potent. Explosions could be felt and it was so much more immersive. At no point did I feel the need to adjust the subwoofer up my usual 3-4dB bump. For movie watching, this thing has already shown itself an absolute beast!

All, however, was not wine and roses and I really can't wait for my UMIK-1 to arrive so I can take some measurements. There were portions of explosions where it almost seemed like there was *something* not playing (but I'm not sure if that's just the soundtrack or if I have a legit null). I'll be digging in ASAP!

I did some low-ish volume music listening later in the evening. Things sounded good--but the volume was just too low to make any actual judgments. Unfortunately, this was around 11 pm and everyone but me was in bed.

More to come tomorrow as I get into some critical music listening!

Ironman has the DRC flag default to "on." It's the only movie I know of that does this. Your description of "*something* not playing" is exactly the description of what that movie sounds like when the DRC flag is on. You need to find the setting in your pre/pro that sets DRC to off. You have to do this AFTER the movie has started. It's incredibly stupid that the studio did this, but it makes a HUGE difference when DRC is off.

Craig

Holiday121 · 03-28-2015, 03:21 PM

I started with 2 Dynamo 500s then went to a klipsch rw12d and then to a Psa xv15 now I have a Psa xs30 on the way hahahha

gbreda · 03-28-2015, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holiday121

I started with 2 Dynamo 500s then went to a klipsch rw12d and then to a Psa xv15 now I have a Psa xs30 on the way hahahha

You found an XS30, that's great !!

nalthien · 03-28-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig john

Ironman has the DRC flag default to "on." It's the only movie I know of that does this. Your description of "*something* not playing" is exactly the description of what that movie sounds like when the DRC flag is on. You need to find the setting in your pre/pro that sets DRC to off. You have to do this AFTER the movie has started. It's incredibly stupid that the studio did this, but it makes a HUGE difference when DRC is off.

Wow--thanks for sharing! Is is only the first movie or are the others impacted as well?

One of the reasons I love this forum is that I never would have known that otherwise!

mnc · 03-29-2015, 07:31 AM

+1
I didn't know about this until I read it here either. Can't believe how many times I watched it not knowing!

basshead81 · 03-29-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nalthien

Wow--thanks for sharing! Is is only the first movie or are the others impacted as well?

One of the reasons I love this forum is that I never would have known that otherwise!

Check the master list of movies with bass thread stickied at the top of the page, there was 3 pages of discussion about this recently.

gtsum · 03-29-2015, 11:52 AM

In for the results. My room is over 7500 cubic feet as well (similar vaulted space) and I have a single XS30se so I am interested in hearing your results!

mnc · 03-29-2015, 04:08 PM

Hey nalthien, when are you getting your S3000i? Can't wait to hear what you think about it compared to the V1500.

nalthien · 03-29-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

Hey nalthien, when are you getting your S3000i? Can't wait to hear what you think about it compared to the V1500.

It's scheduled to arrive Tuesday.

mnc · 03-29-2015, 04:46 PM

I expect a FULL report by Wednesday!

mnc · 03-30-2015, 11:32 AM

I'm really looking forward to your findings especially after my somewhat disappointing results today. My single V1500 simply can't do much in my open living room. I'm hoping when I add a second one later this year that it will make a noticeable improvement.
I'd be VERY surprised if you end up picking the S3000i. Can't wait to see what you think!

Alan P · 03-30-2015, 11:40 AM

Sorry to hear you were disappointed mnc....what steps did you go through to optimize??

lz7j · 03-30-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

I'm really looking forward to your findings especially after my somewhat disappointing results today. My single V1500 simply can't do much in my open living room. I'm hoping when I add a second one later this year that it will make a noticeable improvement.
I'd be VERY surprised if you end up picking the S3000i. Can't wait to see what you think!

@mnc - how big is your space? If you have the flexibility, I would move the sub within 3' of MLP. While waiting for my Gamma218 to come in, I made room up front (12' away) and moved my vtf15.2 sub directly behind my chair and it's all

bear123 · 03-30-2015, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

I'm really looking forward to your findings especially after my somewhat disappointing results today. My single V1500 simply can't do much in my open living room. I'm hoping when I add a second one later this year that it will make a noticeable improvement.
I'd be VERY surprised if you end up picking the S3000i. Can't wait to see what you think!

Try your current sub, or the next one, nearfield and see if it helps.

nalthien · 03-30-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

I'm really looking forward to your findings especially after my somewhat disappointing results today. My single V1500 simply can't do much in my open living room.

Can't do much?
Can't do much at certain frequencies?
Can't do much in its current position?

Honestly, this statement is too broad to really draw any conclusions. My experience with the V1500 has been overwhelmingly positive for both music and movies so far in my room. I can definitely perceive that I've got a difficult response situation at some frequencies; but, without my UMIK-1, I can't tell exactly what those are. And honestly, what I have been hearing is impressive! I already know I'm going to have to change positions (my wife hates where mine is at the moment) but I'm waiting on my mic so I can measure.

I dunno; I saw in the other thread that your "disappointment" came from WOTW Pod Emergence Scene. I've acknowledged right up front that ULF (<20hz) likely isn't going to be great in my large room. You may wind up feeling the same way no matter what you go with (unless you start getting into the multiple Orbit Shifter territory).

mnc · 03-30-2015, 05:01 PM

Yeah I should clarify my statement in this thread.
Right now, my main concern is an odd, upper resonance during certain intense bass scenes. I'm Not entirely sure its coming from the sub, it might be something in my room resonating. Just now, I turned Dynamic EQ OFF and changed Room Size from large to small. This has greatly reduced any resonance. I hope that adding a second V1500 will improve things but I really want to hear your opinion comparing the two. I might end up ordering a S3000i before my 30 days are up just to hear for myself.

mnc · 03-30-2015, 07:00 PM

Nalthien, I may have jumped the gun with my comments about a resonance. After playing several more movie clips known for bass, the only annoying sound was during scenes from Inception. I suppose it might be in the actual mix. Not sure why I never noticed it before? Maybe my speakers were producing so much distortion that I couldn't hear it!

Anyway, when you get your S3000i, if you own Inception I would love to hear your opinion on how each sub plays that particular movie.

I was briefly considering going with XS30SE's instead of the V1500's thinking it might sound "cleaner" but now I'm more convinced than ever that dual V1500's will suit me just fine!

basshead81 · 03-30-2015, 09:02 PM

Sounds to me like you are driving yourself crazy making way too many adjustments without taking the time to go through the setup correctly after each change. Anytime you move the sub, change the gain, or adjust the room control, you need to run the room correction software.

Also keep the crossover at the recommended 80hz and all speakers set small. Next download REW, buy a Mic, measure the response and quit guessing. The problem here is setup issues by the end user not the sub. REW is still beneficial even if your placement options are limited REW will still allow you to see pre and post Audyssey and how all your changes are effecting the response. Waterfall graphs will also tell how bad the ringing is at a specific frequency, which will let you know if it's the sub or something else you may be hearing.

I would also give each change you make a good listening session before deciding if it's good or bad. Also listen to different sources, do not base anything off of 1 movie.

nalthien · 03-31-2015, 11:58 AM

S3000i has arrived along with the UMIK-1 and miniDSP!

Unboxing photos to come shortly...this thing is HEAVY!

nalthien · 03-31-2015, 12:10 PM

Ok, here are some photos. I didn't do detailed unboxing as the packing as almost identical to the V1500. I did, however, include a couple of side-by-side shots: S3000i is smaller than I expected.

cesar123 · 03-31-2015, 01:49 PM

Me likey!

flweller · 03-31-2015, 01:55 PM

Woah that ported V1500 is a good bit bigger in size than the S3000i.

Neither of those is light in weight. The S3000i I is fairly beastly at 125lbs!

Report back soon! But don't hurt your back moving these subs around and getting them dialed!

nalthien · 03-31-2015, 03:37 PM

Ok, attaching my first graph. Including some notes because I'm not sure if I've done this right:

I used a 90 degree calibration file as provided by the miniDSP site.
I turned off Audyssey
I did these measurements with the AVR volume set to -20dB (I then measured at 0dB and the graph was identical shifted way up).
Settings in REW: 10-200hz at -12.0dB. 256k length and 1 sweep.

Would love thoughts on what I might have screwed up. If nothing, the graph doesn't look THAT bad to me as a starting point. Going to try some other positions here shortly!!!

Edit: added a second graph to zoom a bit better on the response. It looks pretty nasty from 100-200 with a big, nasty null at 70.

Edit 2: these graphs are for the V1500.

mnc · 03-31-2015, 03:41 PM

Is that with the room size set to large? If so, I would love to see a sweep with it set to small. Can't wait to hear what you think !

Alan P · 03-31-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nalthien

Ok, attaching my first graph. Including some notes because I'm not sure if I've done this right:

I used a 90 degree calibration file as provided by the miniDSP site.
I turned off Audyssey
I did these measurements with the AVR volume set to -20dB (I then measured at 0dB and the graph was identical shifted way up).
Settings in REW: 10-200hz at -12.0dB. 256k length and 1 sweep.

Would love thoughts on what I might have screwed up. If nothing, the graph doesn't look THAT bad to me as a starting point. Going to try some other positions here shortly!!!

Edit: added a second graph to zoom a bit better on the response. It looks pretty nasty from 100-200 with a big, nasty null at 70.

Yeah, not looking too great.

Which sub was that? Was that sub only or sub + a speaker? Where is your crossover set (in the AVR)?

nalthien · 03-31-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnc

Is that with the room size set to large? If so, I would love to see a sweep with it set to small. Can't wait to hear what you think !

Seems like as good a time as any. My original graph had it dialed around 3pm. This new graph shows dialed full large (purple) and full small (green).

Edit: these are graphs for the V1500

Alan P · 03-31-2015, 03:52 PM

Doesn't look like you're getting much room gain set to small...I'd set it full large and run Audyssey to see what you get.

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