Oh snap! Jtr cap 1400 - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 891 Old 06-20-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspen0220 View Post
Does this mean that if I ACCIDENTLY turn it on very loud, I should be okay?
Yes, basically it would be impossible to over driver it so you don't need to worry about damaging the driver.
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post #512 of 891 Old 06-20-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Yes, basically it would be impossible to over driver it so you don't need to worry about damaging the driver.
+1

I would tend to agree. Jeff is renowned for his love of high-output designs. It's hard for me to imagine he hasn't sufficiently planned for people using his speakers and sub in that manner, which means robust limiters.

 
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post #513 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, data-bass said it is amp limited across the entire frequency range. In a way I suppose that is not a bad thing....pretty bullet proof design if the driver can handle every drop of power the amp can supply at all frequencies and not break a sweat.
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post #514 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
pretty bullet proof design if the driver can handle every drop of power the amp can supply at all frequencies and not break a sweat.
That's not exactly correct. Amp limited can mean the DSP is clamping the power output of the amp to protect the driver, and not necessarily the amp is power limited. It doesn't take much power to overload a driver at very low frequencies.

That said, the JTR driver is most likely capable of handling every drop of power from the amp from its tuning frequency and up. That driver used to be paired with a 4000 watt amplifier!
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post #515 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bcodemz View Post
That's not exactly correct. Amp limited can mean the DSP is clamping the power output of the amp to protect the driver, and not necessarily the amp is power limited. It doesn't take much power to overload a driver at very low frequencies.

That said, the JTR driver is most likely capable of handling every drop of power from the amp from its tuning frequency and up. That driver used to be paired with a 4000 watt amplifier!




Jeff has said its a new driver, so I'm don't think it's the same driver that was used in the 4000w Cap.

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post #516 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
From Jeff has said its a new driver, so I'm don't think it's the same driver that was used in the 4000w Cap.
A little confusing on the driver being the same or not. In post #17 of this thread. Jeff says it's the same driver but optimized for the new amp. Regardless though, JTR's sub drivers are very robust. So I'm sure the 1400 driver could take more then what the ICE amp can put out.
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post #517 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
A little confusing on the driver being the same or not. In post #17 of this thread. Jeff says it's the same driver but optimized for the new amp. Regardless though, JTR's sub drivers are very robust. So I'm sure the 1400 driver could take more then what the ICE amp can put out.

Me too!.....lol I am pretty confident in saying that the Cap 1400 is probably more amp limited though, if I had to guess Jeff would of had the T/S parameters customized to work well with the SpeakerPower 1400watt amp, so the driver probably has a higher sensitivity compared to the driver what was in the 2400 & 4000watt Caps.
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post #518 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Me too!.....lol I am pretty confident in saying that the Cap 1400 is probably more amp limited though, if I had to guess Jeff would of had the T/S parameters customized to work well with the SpeakerPower 1400watt amp, so the driver probably has a higher sensitivity compared to the driver what was in the 2400 & 4000watt Caps.
Hey? I didn't even know that there was a Cap 4000.. Was that a limited run?
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post #519 of 891 Old 06-21-2015, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Hey? I didn't even know that there was a Cap 4000.. Was that a limited run?
I'm not sure honestly, I've seen guys mention it but I've never seen one. I always just thought there was the Cap 2400 model? And before the current Cap's there was the one with the passive 18 and a 15" driver inside of the passive 18. So I'm not sure exactly.
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post #520 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 05:25 AM
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It was before the cap 2400 and you had the option of plugging one of the ports. I think @Archaea had them??

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post #521 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
A little confusing on the driver being the same or not. In post #17 of this thread. Jeff says it's the same driver but optimized for the new amp. Regardless though, JTR's sub drivers are very robust. So I'm sure the 1400 driver could take more then what the ICE amp can put out.
The drivers were indeed updated for the ICE amps. AAMOF, the S1 cabinet was slightly modified to accommodate the larger driver. The one Jeff sent me is the first 2016 model and it's about 1.5" deeper than the current version. The 1400 I have appears to be the same dimensions as the current model though, so I think that cabinet may not be different.

 
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post #522 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
It was before the cap 2400 and you had the option of plugging one of the ports. I think @Archaea had them??
In 2011, the ported Captivator used the exact same driver as the Orbit Shifter of that time, and similarly the powered Captivator version was paired with the 4000 watt speakerpower amp that the orbit shifter was powered with. It was native 20hz tuned, with the capability of a 15hz tune with one port plugged.

I had the passive, pro cabinet version, of that line. This one: (but mine was passive - meaning bring your own amp).
https://web.archive.org/web/20110419...aptivator-pro/

Last edited by Archaea; 06-22-2015 at 07:56 AM.
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post #523 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 10:19 AM
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That original powered Captivator 4000 was NOT amp limited but it was also crazy impressive.

I could be wrong but the way I picture it is that the original powered Cap would be equal to a passive Cap powered by the Crown 5000 or CV 5000 amp or similar. The Cap 1400 might be more along the lines of a passive Cap powered by a ep 4000.

I'm confident the first part of that is right, could definitely be wrong about the second part.

Does Jeff sell passive Caps anymore?
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post #524 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
A little confusing on the driver being the same or not. In post #17 of this thread. Jeff says it's the same driver but optimized for the new amp. Regardless though, JTR's sub drivers are very robust. So I'm sure the 1400 driver could take more then what the ICE amp can put out.
Here is the Cap 4000's info with pictures of the driver and FR http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...edited-4968662




Jeff quit using this amp b/c it could bottom out the driver on some content. The 2400 wpc amp worked better for less money.

Chris

Last edited by countryWV; 06-22-2015 at 11:31 AM.
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post #525 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 11:50 AM
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i really wish i had jumped on the pre-order price for these when i had the chance. 2 of these would definitely be in my shopping cart right now haha
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post #526 of 891 Old 06-22-2015, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
In 2011, the ported Captivator used the exact same driver as the Orbit Shifter of that time, and similarly the powered Captivator version was paired with the 4000 watt speakerpower amp that the orbit shifter was powered with. It was native 20hz tuned, with the capability of a 15hz tune with one port plugged.

I had the passive, pro cabinet version, of that line. This one: (but mine was passive - meaning bring your own amp).
https://web.archive.org/web/20110419...aptivator-pro/

SMH.....I forgot you had passives. I'm an idiot.

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post #527 of 891 Old 06-23-2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Jeff has said its a new driver, so I'm don't think it's the same driver that was used in the 4000w Cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
A little confusing on the driver being the same or not. In post #17 of this thread. Jeff says it's the same driver but optimized for the new amp. Regardless though, JTR's sub drivers are very robust. So I'm sure the 1400 driver could take more then what the ICE amp can put out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Me too!.....lol I am pretty confident in saying that the Cap 1400 is probably more amp limited though, if I had to guess Jeff would of had the T/S parameters customized to work well with the SpeakerPower 1400watt amp, so the driver probably has a higher sensitivity compared to the driver what was in the 2400 & 4000watt Caps.



It's the same driver, just with the impedance optimized for the new amplifier.
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post #528 of 891 Old 06-23-2015, 06:09 PM
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Would a dedicated 20A circuit for two Caps be insufficient? "120V * 20A = 2400W" which would be less than 2800W so maybe not enough juice if the bass was sustained for too long. I can't imagine the windows and sliding glass door holding up to that abuse though Just worried about popping the breakers, I'm sure I wouldn't miss out on 400W at that high of volume (since 1200W -> 2400W is +3db, what maybe 400w = 1db loss at that level)

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post #529 of 891 Old 06-23-2015, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadus View Post
Would a dedicated 20A circuit for two Caps be insufficient? "120V * 20A = 2400W" which would be less than 2800W so maybe not enough juice if the bass was sustained for too long. I can't imagine the windows and sliding glass door holding up to that abuse though Just worried about popping the breakers, I'm sure I wouldn't miss out on 400W at that high of volume (since 1200W -> 2400W is +3db, what maybe 400w = 1db loss at that level)
I ran 2 Orbit Shifters (4kw amp) off of one 20 amp circuit with no issues so you will be fine.

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post #530 of 891 Old 06-24-2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sadus View Post
Would a dedicated 20A circuit for two Caps be insufficient? "120V * 20A = 2400W" which would be less than 2800W so maybe not enough juice if the bass was sustained for too long. I can't imagine the windows and sliding glass door holding up to that abuse though Just worried about popping the breakers, I'm sure I wouldn't miss out on 400W at that high of volume (since 1200W -> 2400W is +3db, what maybe 400w = 1db loss at that level)
you should be fine unless you are running sine waves for extended periods of time
I think my entire HT is run off 1 20 amp line. only tripped it once (running sine waves)
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post #531 of 891 Old 06-24-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post
you should be fine unless you are running sine waves for extended periods of time
I think my entire HT is run off 1 20 amp line. only tripped it once (running sine waves)
I do dabble with some music production and love bass especially so some sine waves are not out of the question, but probably not at full blast I suppose

Renting here in Colorado, the hard part about asking your landlord for some more circuits ran is trying to convince them it's not for growing weed But one look at the Caps should do the trick just fine haha.
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post #532 of 891 Old 06-26-2015, 02:01 PM
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One interesting thing I noticed is that Jeff is basically using the specs from Speaker Power for the Amplification stat of his Cap 1400. The amp modules are rated 700 Watt @ 4 ohms and 2 modules are used per Cap 1400. Now, the 18″ FI subwoofer driver in Cap 1400 has motor strength of 256 (bl^2/re), making the resistance closer to 2 than to 4. So Jeff could have listed Cap 1400's amp power as 2000+ Watts.
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post #533 of 891 Old 06-27-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
One interesting thing I noticed is that Jeff is basically using the specs from Speaker Power for the Amplification stat of his Cap 1400. The amp modules are rated 700 Watt @ 4 ohms and 2 modules are used per Cap 1400. Now, the 18″ FI subwoofer driver in Cap 1400 has motor strength of 256 (bl^2/re), making the resistance closer to 2 than to 4. So Jeff could have listed Cap 1400's amp power as 2000+ Watts.

Remember that Jeff posted that he "optimized" the existing driver to make it more efficient for the new amp modules. The passive version of the Cap 2400 was available with a dual 4" voice coil assembly wired at 2, 4 or 8 ohms.







The powered Cap 2400 was available with the same dual 4" voice coil assembly (I'm guessing it was possibly wired at 2 ohms?). The new Cap 1400 is available with a 2"+2" voice coil assembly probably wired at 4 ohms. Keep in mind that the impedance of a driver fluctuates over a range of frequencies and that the specified impedance in ohms is a "nominal" rating.

The ICE Power 700ASC modules are rated at 700w at 4 ohms and stable down to 2.5 ohms. Theoretically two 700ASC modules could provide approx. 2240 watts at 2.5 ohms.

I'm not an audio engineer and I could be wrong on these specs., But as I understand it a dual 2" voice coils are more efficient at controlling mass and inertia than a single 4" voice coil. A more efficient speaker with less power can produce comparable SPL to a less efficient speaker with more power. So even though the Cap 1400 has less power than the Cap 2400, it is a more efficient speaker and will play reasonably close to the earlier model.



Only Jeff or someone else on AVS with a better understanding of power/impedance than myself can explain what the exact output of the new amp/driver combination would be.
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post #534 of 891 Old 06-28-2015, 02:23 PM
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2.5ohm DVC, wow maybe I should go for a dedicated 20a circuit for each after all ;-)

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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The Captivator 1400 driver (and it's impedance of dual 2.5ohm coils) has been fully optimized for new Ice Power modules for maximum performance and output.
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post #535 of 891 Old 06-28-2015, 06:43 PM
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Only Jeff or someone else on AVS with a better understanding of power/impedance than myself can explain what the exact output of the new amp/driver combination would be.[/QUOTE]

I may have missed something, but doesn't data-bass reveal all of this for the cap 1400?
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post #536 of 891 Old 06-28-2015, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I may have missed something, but doesn't data-bass reveal all of this for the cap 1400?
Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is my belief that Jeff conservatively used the power specs provided by Ice Power Amp (700 W @ 4 Ohms). Data-bass simply used the product specs provided by Jeff.

Since the 18″ FI subwoofer driver in Cap 1400 has motor strength of 256 (bl^2/re), either the bl for the driver is large or the Res is small. The driver is a custom FI Audio driver sP4 18D1 (HT opton) which on DATA-BASS has a Res of 1.3 Ohms. If the Res for Cap 1400's driver is 4 Ohms, then the power is 1400W. However, if the Res is 2.5 Ohms then Jeff could have listed Cap 1400's amp power as 2200+ Watts.

RA's Echo 18 uses the same Ice Power Amp and lists it @ 925W because the driver has a Res of 3.027 Ohms; PSA uses the same amps and lists it @ 1700W because the driver has a Res of 3.294 Ohms.
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post #537 of 891 Old 07-06-2015, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
Only Jeff or someone else on AVS with a better understanding of power/impedance than myself can explain what the exact output of the new amp/driver combination would be.
I may have missed something, but doesn't data-bass reveal all of this for the cap 1400?

The driver is the same other than the impedance has been optimised for the new amplifier. Same voicecoil dimensions and same t/s parameters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is my belief that Jeff conservatively used the power specs provided by Ice Power Amp (700 W @ 4 Ohms). Data-bass simply used the product specs provided by Jeff.

If the Res for Cap 1400's driver is 4 Ohms, then the power is 1400W. However, if the Res is 2.5 Ohms then Jeff could have listed Cap 1400's amp power as 2200+ Watts.

This would be true if the amplifer could produce more than the 700 watts that Ice Power designed it to produce and that Speaker Power has varified it to produce.


JTR's suppliers are confidencial and share no t/s parameters with FI drivers.

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post #538 of 891 Old 07-06-2015, 11:13 AM
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For all those waiting, all the Captivator 1400s will ship out by the end of this week (minus one custom).
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post #539 of 891 Old 07-06-2015, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Since both the Cap 1400 and the HS24 have been tested at data-bass, it is fairly easy to compare. With the smaller box size, the HS24 loses about 2 dB and with much less voltage it loses more dB. The Cap 1400 was tested with its actual amp. The amp used for the HS24 tests puts out up to 4x the voltage of the DeepSeaSound amp. The difference between 100 volts and 400 volts at 40 Hz is 12 dB! I don't think people realize how well the Cap 1400 tested given that is is using much less voltage than all the DIY builds used for comparison.


Not many people have done that math.
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post #540 of 891 Old 07-08-2015, 06:43 PM
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Cap 1400 won't turn on

My cap 1400 suddenly doesn't work anymore. Since jtr is closed for today, anybody know what I can do to get it working. My amp doesn't turn on and I don't see any light regardless which position i leave the on switch at. Reason why I'm asking here is because I have a party tonight and would love to be able to use it. It was working fine yesterday.

Last edited by Aspen0220; 07-08-2015 at 06:47 PM.
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