Originally Posted by superbabyboy1984
I may be in for 1. Im 10mins away from Van Nuy. I already placed an order Echo18 from RA.If there is nothing going on next two weeks,i will cancel that order and jump in Cap 1400 deal instead.
It looks like so far we have orders for three (3) Cap-1400's for a Los Angeles Group Buy. Your order would put us over top for the free shipping.
Both JTR and RA are using the identical ICEpower modular ASC/ASX amplifier rated at 700w @ 4 ohms per module. The 18" driver in the Cap-1400 is rated at 4 ohms so JTR is using two ICE modules with 700w @ 4 ohms for each half of the dual voice coil driver. The 18" driver in the Echo 18 is rated at 3 ohms so RA is using one ICE module with 925w @ 3 ohms for the single driver (the Gama 218 gets two ICE modules with 925w @ 3 ohms for each of the dual opposed 18" drivers). The JTR Cap-1400 has a stronger motor strength at 256 (bl^2/re).
With the more powerful motor and 1400w amp, the Cap-1400 should outperform the Echo 18 substantially. At the normal price of $1,999 for the Cap-1400 and $1,399 for the Echo-18 you'd be paying a $600 premium for the performance differential. But both are on sale now at $1,599 for the Cap and $1,299 for the RA. Assuming you can join the LA group buy for free shipping, that's only $300 difference between the two subs. At $300 the JTR is demonstrably the better value and performance leader.
Before someone gets hitched and puts on the wedding ring, it's normal feel some uncertanity and flirt with the other 'Bells at the ball". I need two subs and have been considering dual RA Gama 218's versus dual JTR Cap-1400's. At $3,249 for the pair of RA 218's and $3,198 for the pair of Cap-1400's (group buy), the pre-sale price differential is only $51. The price to performance ratio between the two subs is negligible. So I've been debating which one is better for my specific application and requirements, not which one is a better price to performance value. If I was looking at purchasing only one sub, I believe that the JTR would be the winner by a long shot hands down.
However at the same price/performance, I must consider my specific requirements: (1) behind the LP for near field effect, (2) reinforce and LFE in a 10,000 cf room, (3) blend with with 12 Martin Logan electrostatics, (4) integrate with a DTS-10 corner loaded across the room, and (4) balance out front to back localization. That's why I've been rehashing the old debate between which is better for a large room: four Sealed 18's or two ported 18's. It seems like a no-brainer the four sealed 18's would outperform two ported 18's but when you look at jbrown's comparison graph below the ported had the advantage between 15-30 Hz (even if you move the sealed curve up +3db to account for double 18's).
I'm not chasing sub 15 Hz performance in a 39' x 49' room where I calculate only 5 db room gain at 5.5 Hz. I am however interested in tactile sensation and chest slam for movie special effects. Ive read that the loudest LFE you 'hear' is between 40-80 Hz, the loudest LFE you 'hear/feel' is between 17-35 Hz, and the LFE you don't hear but it 'oscillates' your walls/suspended floor is between 8-15 Hz. In my application, the concrete slab floors and open walls (sheared with 3/4 ply for earthquake safety) in in such a large space are not going to oscillate unless I get a divorce and fill the living room with multiple refrigerator sized subs, so 8-15 Hz is meaningless.
When I first set this system up, it was 7.2 Martin Logans with a Lexicon MC1 processor primarily for music and my multichannel SACD collection. As I got more into movies, I swapped processors to a Marantz AV8801 and kept adding other Martin Logans until I was up to 12 channels (I'm using a 3bx DSP for center rear channel). I'm also pre-wired for R/L-side height and R/L-overhead height channels but that's for later when they sort out the codex's for Atmos/Auro/DBX. I love the sound of electroststs and saved up for my first pair of Quad 57 ESL's instead of a car when I was 15. Since then I've had stacked Quads, KLH-9's, Dayton Wright, Acoustats, Beverage, Infiniti servo static and now Martin Logans. At one point in the 1980's I bought an entire B&W Matrix setup to use as a second system just for home theater, but I eventually came back to the stats.
However, as my hearing has gotten older, our usage has shifted more toward movies, and I started hanging around AVSforum, dynamic range has become as importance as hearing the most intricate ambiance and details. I love the setups I've hear from Seaton Sound at T.H.E. Show in Newport and would like to hear the comparable offerings from JTR. At some point I might consider changing from hybrid stats to cones and horns. However, in the mean time the Logan's are limited in the dynamics for movie soundtracks. Blending the woofers in the Martin Logan stats with either the dual Cap-1400's or dual Gama 218's will mean I can't play the subs really loud unless I swap out my whole system. I hope you don't have to play it loud to get a tactile feel if you have output in the right Hz range. I'd like to buy something that would blend with what I have now and keep up with the more dynamic system I might get in the future.
I'm leaning towards the JTR's simply because I've wanted a pair for so long that to consider anything else would be AVS heresy and create too much 'cognitive dissonance' in my mind. However in the back of my audio-addicted brain the controversy between dual sealed 18's and dual ported 18's for a large room with electroststs rages on until the pay-pal button is hit and the dasterdly dead is done.
But for superbabyboy1984 or anyone else thinking about the choice between ONE Ecco-18 (or) ONE Cap-1400, I'd say: 'Dam the torpedoes, full steam for Captivator-land right away!"