Official Deep Sea Sound Thread - Page 53 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1561 of 2003 Old 01-31-2017, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I will have to double check when I get back home Thursday.

The "cement scene" is before the "shootout scene"....both are towards the beginning though.
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post #1562 of 2003 Old 01-31-2017, 06:49 PM
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Hi David: When this first occurred, I played pink noise from the receiver and measured it as you described, and the mains were measuring 57 DB. I've been running the sub about 8db hot, so it would have been at 65db. I'm applying no separated DSP processing from my Yamaha 3060, but I do have a DSpeaker in the mix to tame peaks.
Pushing on the sub driver reveals no scrapping or other abnormal sounds. I also forwarded you some clips where the rattling occurs. Appreciate your help with this.
Thanks for emailing me a video of the sub making the noise. As you can tell, the sub is barely moving when that noise is made, which tells me it is not an excursion issue. And the fact that the sub is playing most everything else cleanly suggests it isn't a driver issue. This suggests it might be something in the signal chain so I'd start by pulling the DSPeaker to simplify the signal chain and see if you are able to replicate the noise in the same scenes.
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post #1563 of 2003 Old 02-01-2017, 05:32 AM
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I recently picked up the movie but I haven't watched it. What is the chapter/time-stamp of this scene?


It's in chapter 4


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post #1564 of 2003 Old 02-01-2017, 05:33 AM
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Thanks for emailing me a video of the sub making the noise. As you can tell, the sub is barely moving when that noise is made, which tells me it is not an excursion issue. And the fact that the sub is playing most everything else cleanly suggests it isn't a driver issue. This suggests it might be something in the signal chain so I'd start by pulling the DSPeaker to simplify the signal chain and see if you are able to replicate the noise in the same scenes.


You were correct sir! As soon as I removed the DSpeaker from the chain the problem went away. Thanks for your help!


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post #1565 of 2003 Old 02-01-2017, 05:33 AM
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It's in chapter 4


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I believe it's between 18 and 19 minutes in.


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post #1566 of 2003 Old 02-01-2017, 08:17 AM
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You were correct sir! As soon as I removed the DSpeaker from the chain the problem went away. Thanks for your help!


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It may be one of the filters you are using in the dspeaker that is acting up. Perhaps attempt changing your settings back to a "stock" EQ flat in the dspeaker and see if it still happens. It would be shame to dump that piece of gear that is so useful for EQ when it was just a single filter that was making the issue prevalent.

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post #1567 of 2003 Old 02-01-2017, 09:45 AM
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It may be one of the filters you are using in the dspeaker that is acting up. Perhaps attempt changing your settings back to a "stock" EQ flat in the dspeaker and see if it still happens. It would be shame to dump that piece of gear that is so useful for EQ when it was just a single filter that was making the issue prevalent.


Thanks. I may end up selling it, though, and embark on my long-delayed quest to use, understand and implement Mini DSP.


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post #1568 of 2003 Old 02-02-2017, 06:01 PM
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You were correct sir! As soon as I removed the DSpeaker from the chain the problem went away. Thanks for your help!


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Are you using the dual core Dspeaker?

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post #1569 of 2003 Old 02-03-2017, 01:17 PM
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Are you using the dual core Dspeaker?


Yes, that's correct


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post #1570 of 2003 Old 02-03-2017, 02:58 PM
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Yes, that's correct


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I am assuming that you use the DSpeaker to handle the crossover?
Reason I am asking is I had issues with the unit as well, especially with my DIY subs. They would make a nasty rattling sound even with low excursion (sometimes even a screeching sound). I'm pretty sure it's some sort of signal clipping but never got to the bottom of it. I know that there was a big difference between the 2012 and 2013 models as far as input sensitivity and output voltage goes. The info is on their site.
One thing that seemed to help was changing the slope of the high pass filter to 24db/octave. It really takes some experimenting and level matching to get the unit to play nicely with your other equipment.
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post #1571 of 2003 Old 02-06-2017, 06:26 AM
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I got a new pre/pro added to my system this weekend. Thus far, I have used Audyssey and Dirac. I always had to bump the bass on both products to get the results I was looking for. My new pre/pro is Anthem which uses ARC2. Wow! I might end up dialing back the bass a bit on this one. Music is nice and tight without bloat but movie LFE is STUPID insane. During the thunder clap on the Atmos "Amaze" track, you can feel the pressure wave pass through you and it just rocked the house violently. Every door rattled and you could almost feel the floor joists wanting to flex under under your feet. David I know you said that my room has the best tactile feel of any room you have been in. You would be laughing your butt of now buddy. I was having so much fun until my wife put an abrupt stop to my enjoyment

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Are you using the dual core Dspeaker?
I didn't realize yall were talking about the anti-mode product since I never called it Dspeaker. Yes, I had one of those and it jacked up both my DSS subs until I removed it. It was making the input way too hot. Once I removed it, all was well. Sorry, I didn't realize that was the product you were using earlier @healthnut .
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post #1572 of 2003 Old 02-06-2017, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I got a new pre/pro added to my system this weekend. Thus far, I have used Audyssey and Dirac. I always had to bump the bass on both products to get the results I was looking for. My new pre/pro is Anthem which uses ARC2. Wow! I might end up dialing back the bass a bit on this one. Music is nice and tight without bloat but movie LFE is STUPID insane. During the thunder clap on the Atmos "Amaze" track, you can feel the pressure wave pass through you and it just rocked the house violently. Every door rattled and you could almost feel the floor joists wanting to flex under under your feet. David I know you said that my room has the best tactile feel of any room you have been in. You would be laughing your butt of now buddy. I was having so much fun until my wife put an abrupt stop to my enjoyment



I didn't realize yall were talking about the anti-mode product since I never called it Dspeaker. Yes, I had one of those and it jacked up both my DSS subs until I removed it. It was making the input way too hot. Once I removed it, all was well. Sorry, I didn't realize that was the product you were using earlier @healthnut .
Glad you are enjoying the ARC with the AVM60. I thought it did an exceptional job, as well, with my bass.

Friday night my wife and I watched "Deepwater Horizon" and the LFE was INSANE. Plus the Dolby Atmos track was the best, to date, I have heard in my room.
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post #1573 of 2003 Old 02-27-2017, 08:38 AM
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Deep Sea Sound continues to impress!
A few months back I placed an order with David for a 24SC. I received the sub and while still on the pallet I realized the error of my ways, this subwoofer is HUGE! None the less, my brother and I manhandled her up the stairs to my 1250 square foot stilt Florida home and placed her in the living room. Once she was hooked up I was stunned by the performance, I had no idea what a “super subwoofer” could do, and “tactile feel” is an understatement! No bass transducers are needed in my application. In fact, I had to purchase subwoofer isolation platforms in an effort to decouple the behemoth from the floor and wooden structure of my second story floor. I attempted to live with the 24SC but its sheer size just overwhelmed my small living room. With my tail between my legs, I reluctantly called David. I pleaded my case and David could not have been more accommodating. We agreed on twin 18’s with round edges in oak to match my antique Klipsch Belles and he would credit me for the 24 with no “dumb ass” tax for the 24SC buyer’s remorse issue.
Fast forward to this weekend… on Sunday morning my twin 18’s showed up in the back of David’s van at my home! The twin 18’s are unbelievably well built and rival the single 24 in terms of output. The bass seems more evenly distributed throughout my living room as well. The only thing better than the performance of the 18’s is David’s service and attention to detail.
David is a true professional.

Grady
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post #1574 of 2003 Old 03-22-2017, 05:25 PM
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I have yet another example of the tremendous customer support David offers his customers. He drove from Tennessee to my home in Michigan and spent the entire day working on optimizing my single Mariana 24". After extended testing, we mutually agreed that one sub wouldn't cut it, so we agreed to an arrangement that would provide me with two subs at very reasonable cost to me. He is the real deal: he is very knowledgeable about his product (and all things audio/video) and is a first class guy to boot. I don't believe you can get more performance than what his subs provide at anywhere near the price. It has been a pleasure doing business with him. He and his monster subs are highly recommended!


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post #1575 of 2003 Old 03-23-2017, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I have yet another example of the tremendous customer support David offers his customers. He drove from Tennessee to my home in Michigan and spent the entire day working on optimizing my single Mariana 24". After extended testing, we mutually agreed that one sub wouldn't cut it, so we agreed to an arrangement that would provide me with two subs at very reasonable cost to me. He is the real deal: he is very knowledgeable about his product (and all things audio/video) and is a first class guy to boot. I don't believe you can get more performance than what his subs provide at anywhere near the price. It has been a pleasure doing business with him. He and his monster subs are highly recommended!


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That is top notch service. Are you keeping the existing 24" or going with dual 18's?
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post #1576 of 2003 Old 03-23-2017, 06:38 AM
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That is top notch service. Are you keeping the existing 24" or going with dual 18's?


I would have preferred dual 24's, or retain the 24" and add an 18", but due to an injury, I couldn't afford option one or two, so I'm settling on dual 18's. I'm still confident of great performance. The mistake I made was assuming a single 24" could be made to work in my dedicated theater room, but there was too much dipping in the subs range, regardless of placement. At least in my space, 2 is a minimum to get a reasonably flat frequency response curve. The lesson for any who may be listening: start with duals and save yourself issues down the road!


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post #1577 of 2003 Old 03-23-2017, 08:49 AM
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The lesson for any who may be listening: start with duals and save yourself issues down the road!


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Healthnut-- what great advice.


I made the switch from the single 24 to twin 18's and could not be happier. The 18's can be easily moved and placed by myself alone, the 24 is a "fixture" at 230 plus pounds and requires two people to move and a large footprint is needed for placement. I opted for the rear mounted 4000 watt home theater plate amps as I thought one of the 18's may be relegated to my bedroom system. After living with the 18's for a few weeks I seriously doubt that will happen as I am so thrilled with the performance of the 18's in my living room.


I love my Deep Sea Sound subs!


My neighbors do not share my affinity to the new subs!


Grady
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post #1578 of 2003 Old 03-23-2017, 11:16 AM
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Healthnut-- what great advice.


I made the switch from the single 24 to twin 18's and could not be happier. The 18's can be easily moved and placed by myself alone, the 24 is a "fixture" at 230 plus pounds and requires two people to move and a large footprint is needed for placement. I opted for the rear mounted 4000 watt home theater plate amps as I thought one of the 18's may be relegated to my bedroom system. After living with the 18's for a few weeks I seriously doubt that will happen as I am so thrilled with the performance of the 18's in my living room.


I love my Deep Sea Sound subs!


My neighbors do not share my affinity to the new subs!


Grady


Hi Grady: Glad, but not at all surprised, these subs have worked so well for you, I'm very much expecting the same result. I still believe ultimate extension and SPL lies with the 24," (probably as much as any available sub, regardless of price). David was running my 24 at well over 100db, and for the first time ever, I needed it dialed back. Can't imagine needing or wanting more output. Yes, the 24 requires a bigger space, but I'd get 4 of these bad boys if finances permitted. Rock on!


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post #1579 of 2003 Old 03-23-2017, 12:20 PM
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healthnut the Mariana 24 truly sets the standard for sealed subwoofer output, it's a MONSTER! I've had some friends refer to it as the "Back to the Future" woofer! She could always put a huge smile on my face when pushed hard. The dual 18's seem to rival the single 24, in my opinion, but with better distribution of bass. I don't measure db's or have any calibration tools to verify my thoughts.


I hope you are as pleased with David's 18's as much as I am.


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post #1580 of 2003 Old 03-24-2017, 12:47 PM
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Deep Sea Sound continues to impress!
A few months back I placed an order with David for a 24SC. I received the sub and while still on the pallet I realized the error of my ways, this subwoofer is HUGE! None the less, my brother and I manhandled her up the stairs to my 1250 square foot stilt Florida home and placed her in the living room. Once she was hooked up I was stunned by the performance, I had no idea what a “super subwoofer” could do, and “tactile feel” is an understatement! No bass transducers are needed in my application. In fact, I had to purchase subwoofer isolation platforms in an effort to decouple the behemoth from the floor and wooden structure of my second story floor. I attempted to live with the 24SC but its sheer size just overwhelmed my small living room. With my tail between my legs, I reluctantly called David. I pleaded my case and David could not have been more accommodating. We agreed on twin 18’s with round edges in oak to match my antique Klipsch Belles and he would credit me for the 24 with no “dumb ass” tax for the 24SC buyer’s remorse issue.
Fast forward to this weekend… on Sunday morning my twin 18’s showed up in the back of David’s van at my home! The twin 18’s are unbelievably well built and rival the single 24 in terms of output. The bass seems more evenly distributed throughout my living room as well. The only thing better than the performance of the 18’s is David’s service and attention to detail.
David is a true professional.

Grady
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I have yet another example of the tremendous customer support David offers his customers. He drove from Tennessee to my home in Michigan and spent the entire day working on optimizing my single Mariana 24". After extended testing, we mutually agreed that one sub wouldn't cut it, so we agreed to an arrangement that would provide me with two subs at very reasonable cost to me. He is the real deal: he is very knowledgeable about his product (and all things audio/video) and is a first class guy to boot. I don't believe you can get more performance than what his subs provide at anywhere near the price. It has been a pleasure doing business with him. He and his monster subs are highly recommended!
That is very cool. I respect any company that puts its customers first and goes out of their way to make them happy. It's obvious that David at DeepSea does just that.

Subwoofers: PSA TV36 iPal X2 ...Speakers: PSA MTM-210T L/R - PSA MTM-210C Center- PSA MT110SR's Surrounds - RSL C34E Atmos... Motion Actuators: Crowson Shadow 8 - X2
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post #1581 of 2003 Old 03-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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That is very cool. I respect any company that puts its customers first and goes out of their way to make them happy. It's obvious that David at DeepSea does just that.


Oh yes. It makes making high dollar audio purchases much less risky when you know you're buying from a competent, customer oriented vendor, such as David, who really cares about seeing you are satisfied. On top of all that, these subs are a tremendous value!


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post #1582 of 2003 Old 04-13-2017, 08:23 PM
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I stumbled on Deep Sea Sound yesterday while browsing the forums. Based on what is being described, it seems like there's a small, but loyal and growing customer base for these huge subwoofers. I've always dreamed of having incredibly powerful bass. These subwoofers seem really amazing from what's described. I do have some questions, though. This can be answered by David Gage or any customer of his. Do you notice any boomy-ness when you play bassy movies like Mad Max Fury Road or Transformers? If so, does having more than 1 subwoofer reduce/eliminate any boomy-ness? Does the powerful bass easily overwhelm and drown out the other frequencies if you're not careful with the gain, or throw off your bass-to-treble ratio/proportion? Granted, I understand that most DSS customers enjoy bass and have more demands/standards for bass than most other audiophiles. Your thoughts or comments?

Also, what kind of circuits is everyone using? I notice these sub amplifiers can max out a continuous 4,000 watts. Anyone using a 30A 240V circuit or anything like that to host these subs? Multiple circuits? Obviously, most people won't ever use all that power for that long a period, but I was curious.
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post #1583 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 12:04 AM
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I stumbled on Deep Sea Sound yesterday while browsing the forums. Based on what is being described, it seems like there's a small, but loyal and growing customer base for these huge subwoofers. I've always dreamed of having incredibly powerful bass. These subwoofers seem really amazing from what's described. I do have some questions, though. This can be answered by David Gage or any customer of his. Do you notice any boomy-ness when you play bassy movies like Mad Max Fury Road or Transformers? If so, does having more than 1 subwoofer reduce/eliminate any boomy-ness? Does the powerful bass easily overwhelm and drown out the other frequencies if you're not careful with the gain, or throw off your bass-to-treble ratio/proportion? Granted, I understand that most DSS customers enjoy bass and have more demands/standards for bass than most other audiophiles. Your thoughts or comments?

Also, what kind of circuits is everyone using? I notice these sub amplifiers can max out a continuous 4,000 watts. Anyone using a 30A 240V circuit or anything like that to host these subs? Multiple circuits? Obviously, most people won't ever use all that power for that long a period, but I was curious.
Start here - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36272658
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post #1584 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bruckheimer Fan View Post
I stumbled on Deep Sea Sound yesterday while browsing the forums. Based on what is being described, it seems like there's a small, but loyal and growing customer base for these huge subwoofers. I've always dreamed of having incredibly powerful bass. These subwoofers seem really amazing from what's described. I do have some questions, though. This can be answered by David Gage or any customer of his. Do you notice any boomy-ness when you play bassy movies like Mad Max Fury Road or Transformers? If so, does having more than 1 subwoofer reduce/eliminate any boomy-ness? Does the powerful bass easily overwhelm and drown out the other frequencies if you're not careful with the gain, or throw off your bass-to-treble ratio/proportion? Granted, I understand that most DSS customers enjoy bass and have more demands/standards for bass than most other audiophiles. Your thoughts or comments?



Also, what kind of circuits is everyone using? I notice these sub amplifiers can max out a continuous 4,000 watts. Anyone using a 30A 240V circuit or anything like that to host these subs? Multiple circuits? Obviously, most people won't ever use all that power for that long a period, but I was curious.


As far as your first concern, if you properly set up the sub (position, crossover, level, etc), boomy-ness is not a concern, nor is the bass drowning out other frequencies. This would be true of just about any sub. Proper equalizing with a mic and minidsp is recommended.
To your second point: I posed the question of circuits to David and he said 20 amp is a minimum and 30 is better. These are great subs, and David will do what it takes to make you happy with your purchase. Best of luck!


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post #1585 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 06:11 AM
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Boomy-ness...nope.


Smile inducing, pulse increasing, home shaking, visceral movie viewing experience... YES!


I have some bass heavy cd music I purchased just for demonstration purposes and these subs simply continue to impress me. They've handled everything I've thrown at them with absolute authority. I have a pair of 4000w 18's in a 15A outlet and have yet to have any breaker tripping issues. Perhaps I'm not pushing them hard enough!


I could not be happier with my Deep Sea Sound subs and the professionalism of David. In my opinion, David's customer service sets the standard by which all others should be judged.


Grady

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post #1586 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 07:33 AM
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No boomyness with my quad 18S' running off an external SP2-12000 with David's tweaking of the DSP.

I'm running the one amp for all four, off a 30A/220 dedicated line.
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post #1587 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bruckheimer Fan View Post
I stumbled on Deep Sea Sound yesterday while browsing the forums. Based on what is being described, it seems like there's a small, but loyal and growing customer base for these huge subwoofers. I've always dreamed of having incredibly powerful bass. These subwoofers seem really amazing from what's described. I do have some questions, though. This can be answered by David Gage or any customer of his. Do you notice any boomy-ness when you play bassy movies like Mad Max Fury Road or Transformers? If so, does having more than 1 subwoofer reduce/eliminate any boomy-ness? Does the powerful bass easily overwhelm and drown out the other frequencies if you're not careful with the gain, or throw off your bass-to-treble ratio/proportion? Granted, I understand that most DSS customers enjoy bass and have more demands/standards for bass than most other audiophiles. Your thoughts or comments?

Also, what kind of circuits is everyone using? I notice these sub amplifiers can max out a continuous 4,000 watts. Anyone using a 30A 240V circuit or anything like that to host these subs? Multiple circuits? Obviously, most people won't ever use all that power for that long a period, but I was curious.
Thanks for the kind words. I'd rather my customers respond on the sound quality and they have so now I can weigh in. My taste in bass was defined over 25 years ago when I installed car stereos while in high school. While I installed sub systems of all kinds including quad 15" ported monsters taking up an entire hatchback, my truck had a single Boston Acoustic Pro 10" sealed sub. I had plenty of output but the ultimate goal was tight, clean bass and that hasn't changed.

Many people new to large 18" and especially the 24" sub think they are too large to be fast and articulate. Sorry to disappoint the uninitiated but physics is on our side, an 80 lb motor-magnet has no problems moving a 1+ lb cone and making it move wherever it wants, whenever it wants. I started this company due to the 24" as I was one of those surprised by how clean, accurate, and effortless it was and even more so when I found out the sub was crossed at 100Hz. When I was at THE Newport Show in LA a couple years ago, I crossed the Mariana 24 at 120Hz just to show what it was capable of. I should point out the 18" shares many parts with the 24" including the magnet-motor so it of course is strong, powerful, clean, and tight as well.

Now, one other thing that surprises many people is how much the room truly affects a speaker and sub system. You could have the most expensive/best speakers in an untreated room and an inexpensive set of speakers in a treated room and I'd be pretty confident the speakers in the treated room would sound better. So some of the boomyness you might be referring to could be due to the room, especially with a single subwoofer. I am a huge fan of multiple subwoofers as the more subwoofers you have, the more even the bass will be in a room, up to 4 subs as beyond that there is a diminishing return. I have exchanged Mariana 24s from two customers for a pair of Mariana 18s (each) so the bass is more even as well as the fact that they weren't using the full capabilities of the single 24. But the primary reason they both wanted to exchange was for more even bass in the room provided by multiple subwoofers.

So if the Mariana 24 has too much output, why go for it? I've measured it in many rooms and the 24s are flat to about 7 Hz in those rooms, in one case it was flat down to 6 Hz. So the reason for the 24 is for those that want deep bass to be able to reproduce anything in a movie and yes there is material down below 10 Hz though not in all movies. But you will find sub-10 Hz content in all types of movies from of course action movies to animated movies and everything in between. Another reason to go with larger subs is effortless, clean bass. If you're not having to push a subwoofer hard, there won't be any distortion and you'll get much cleaner bass than pushing a smaller sub some. And I should point out that a pair of Mariana 18s is almost equal to a single Mariana 24 and if someone is trying to decide between the two, I will push towards multiple subs.

Regarding the amps, I have run a rack-mount SP2-8000 on a shared 20A circuit without issue so you can generally run a pair of the SP1-4000 amps on a single 120V 20A circuit without issue though I wouldn't have a bunch of other stuff on the same circuit. A 20A circuit can pull more amperage in short bursts plus you have to realize the SpeakerPower amps were designed specifically for subs and are over 95% efficient. So you can't exactly do the 4,000w calculations against 20A in terms of power but realize that it is a true continuous 4,000w and has been tested to have more long-term power output than any other amp that I know of. Again, part of that is the amp is a purpose-built subwoofer amp while most other amps are full range. Now Snowmanick and Aareses both have quad Mariana 18S systems with the SpeakerPower SP2-12000 240V amplifier, which saves some money by using 2 amp channels but still providing 3,000w per sub. This is likely my highest performing, yet bang for the buck system as you get 4 subwoofers, great power, yet not spend as much for 4 amplifiers. The only issue with sharing subwoofer channels is you will have to equally position each pair of subs equi-distant to the listening position such as in the corners or left/right of the center and similar in back.

Thanks for your interest, I hope that answered your questions effectively, along with feedback from owners living with their subs. Thanks guys!

David Gage
Deep Sea Sound
"You don't listen to our subs, you EXPERIENCE them!"
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post #1588 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for answering the questions. Very informative. Are these subs/amps rated for 2 ohms at 4,000 watts? Anyone know the THD% at full rated power?
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post #1589 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bruckheimer Fan View Post
Thanks for answering the questions. Very informative. Are these subs/amps rated for 2 ohms at 4,000 watts? Anyone know the THD% at full rated power?
Yes, 4,000w at 2 ohms and even 1 ohm. Rated power is given at 1% THD as shown in the table here (http://www.speakerpower.net). The SpeakerPower amps are used in many popular products: JTR, Seaton, PSA, and many others including some of the stadium/auditorium custom installs. Like I said before, and not just because I use them, the SpeakerPower amps are simply the best for subwoofers. I wouldn't use them on speakers because they aren't designed full range but for subs, I don't know of anything better. Brian Oppegaard was Dir. of Engineering for QSC for many years before founding SpeakerPower so he's been around and has the experience.

David Gage
Deep Sea Sound
"You don't listen to our subs, you EXPERIENCE them!"
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post #1590 of 2003 Old 04-14-2017, 02:50 PM
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@Jerry Bruckheimer Fan ,

I was in a bit of a rush this morning so I didn't get to really expound on my system much, but I do want to share that these are amazing, musical, powerful subs at a very reasonable size and more than reasonable price. David is a top notch guy to work with, very patient in answering my many, many questions before and after the sale.

I've been bouncing back and forth between action movies on Bluray and music on vinyl a lot lately. The subs don't blink at either. Even after hours of work they just him along like nothing happened.

Having a rack mount amp also made setup easier as it was just speaker wire that I ran to the locations and didn't need to worry about power cords, running new lines to multiple locations and so on.

Plus everything is "kid proof." I have two young ones who climb on and play around the subs. Since they are built like tanks (the subs.... well my son is too) I haven't had a single issue. Plus with all the controls being located in my audio rack and not on the back of the subs, the kids can't change settings.

I've had these for about six months and listen to the system with them every single day. Yet they still impress and surprise the hell out of me. Truly a fantastic product.
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