JTR 218HT 18Hz Dual 18" Most bang for buck! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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JTR 218HT 18Hz Dual 18" Most bang for buck!

These have been on JTR's website for a while. Thought it was time they deserved their own thread in anticipation of a great value for an extreemily high performance subwoofer from a reputable builder.





At $1,999 for dual DSP optimized 18" drivers and a 1400 watt amplifier it's a monster of a deal!

Over 110 Db @ 16 Hz

Over 115 Db @ 20 Hz

Over 118 Db @ 25 Hz

Over 125 Db @ 32 Hz - 80 Hz




Here's the info from Jeff's website:





The Captivator 218HT is a bass reflex subwoofer with two 18″ drivers that is for applications needing tremendous output.


  • Two 18″ subwoofer drivers

    Bass Reflex Design tuned to 18hz

    Heavily braced cabinet

    Huge slot port for minimal turbulence and compression

    Completely front firing for versatility

    Built in 1400 watt RMS, DSP optimised, class D amplifier

    RCA and XLR inputs

    12 volt trigger and auto turn on

    120V and 240V compatible

    Magnetically attached grill


The 1400 watts amplifier is equipped with a full digital sound processor that has been optimised to the smoothest frequencey response and highest possible output with minimal distortions.

Frequency: +/-1db (half space) 22-150hz (tuned to 17z)

Sensitivity: 100db, 1 watt, 1.41 volt, 2 ohm

Amplification: 1400 watts RMS (Dual ICE Power 700ASC modules)

Connectors: XLR and RCA

Dimensions: 40.5″ x 19.75″ x 40″ (HxWxD)

Weight (shipping): 215 lbs.

Exterior Finish: Matte Black Paint (custom finishes available)

Construction: 18mm, 13ply, void free, Baltic Birch (Several times stronger and more expensive than MDF)

Warranty: 5 year Manufacturer defect (amplifier 2 years)

MRSP (each): $3998

Manufacture Direct: $1999



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Captivator 218HT:






Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Some final specs on the drivers included 19mm of xmax and 215oz magnets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
We were able to get customs parts needed to greatly increase the drivers performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
I really have to give credit to Eminence for their willingness to work with me and their hard work getting these drivers done. We went through several different motor designs, coils, suspensions, etc. I think this last sample is like number 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The Eminence 18" basket only has clearance for 24mm of inward travel so other manufactures are simply using a linear, 7.25" o.d. spider to limit travel. We have negotiated modifications to increase the inward clearance to 30mm which allows us to use a better, progressive, 8" o.d. spider. The suspension is capable 28mm of travel and the coil to back plate clearance is 31mm (bottomless).

The 8" progressive spider is on the left and the 7.25" linear is on the right:
There maybe some that look at this driver and think that it's just a pro driver however it really is a hybrid that is around 10db more efficient than a typical home theater subwoofer driver and has just the right amount of excursion for it's intended purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

Increasing the “Xmax” could increase the output however we at are the maximum coil length that I’m comfortable with this basket and motor geometry. The additional Xmech was needed to produce good overload characteristics. Subwoofers are generally rated by how they sound at their maximum output so it is very important not to have any snap, crackle and pops. There is a balance of Xmax vs Xmech with consideration to the motor geometry and coil length. For instance, if you have 24mm of Xmech each way and 24mm of Xmax than the motor strength will drive the moving assembly full force into the suspension limits causing an abrupt stop which is very audible and not pleasant sounding. On the other end, you could have 2” of Xmech but only 5mm of Xmax and you'd have a cool looking driver but the cone is still only going to move 5mm with relatively low distortion and maybe 7-8mm maximum.

The cloth surround we choose has the right amount of travel and is much lighter weight than a foam or rubber surround.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
I've gotten a few emails asking about the driver and how it compares to the 1400 driver with it being a lesser driver. The 118/218 driver is a less powerful driver but does not give up any sound quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
We design our subwoofers to be extremely tight, clean, accurate and are among the favorites at subwoofers comparisons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The Cap 218 has 6db more output over the 118HT on the topend however the 218HT is much larger than just twice the size which gives the Captivator 218 an additional couple db output on the bottom so 8db more than the 118HT. The Cap 118 is 2db less than the Captivator 1400 on the topend and 4db less on the bottomend. The 218HT has 4db more output compared to the cap 1400 across the either band.


http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...d=117&mset=129



Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Jeff has said that compared to the Cap 1400, the Cap 218HT should have 4db more output on the top end and 2db more output on the bottom end. And Cap 218 is 6db more than the Cap 118HT.

So this is what I have on my spreadsheet...





Last edited by Peterc613; 11-17-2015 at 06:58 PM.
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post #2 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The new Captivator 218HT was an exercise in building the most bang for the buck.
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-218ht/

Last edited by Peterc613; 11-17-2015 at 06:07 PM.
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post #3 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:20 PM
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I was wondering if it was going to get it's own thread. You're not considering one are you Peter????

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post #4 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I have three of Jeff's Captivator 1400's in custom teak and can testify that the top notch build quality on his products are a very fine furniture grade:

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post #5 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
I have three of Jeff's Captivator 1400's in custom teak and can testify that the top notch build quality on his products are a very fine furniture grade:

Where is your 5000 word, 5 paragraph review with an executive summary?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #6 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
I was wondering if it was going to get it's own thread. You're not considering one are you Peter????
I'm still trying to sell my DTS-10 and QSC 4050HD. Things got delayed by a death in the family and I have been very busy dealing with the estate while working full time. I definitely want a fourth sub and was planning on another Captivator 1400 to match the others but would be willing to consider the 218HT instead.

I's depends on what Jeff thins is a better match for my system. I can't yet determine from what Jeff has posted as to the difference in performance between the 218HT and the Captivator 1400
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post #7 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Where is your 5000 word, 5 paragraph review with an executive summary?
With the death in the family I had to take over part of the family business and haven't had a chance to get everything up and running. Will post a review as soon as possible,
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post #8 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:45 PM
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The size of these,and data bass measurements of the 1400 have me in pause mode on ordering one. Im leaning towards the 1400 but im waffling on that
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post #9 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
I's depends on what Jeff thins is a better match for my system. I can't yet determine from what Jeff has posted as to the difference in performance between the 218HT and the Captivator 1400
Jeff has said that Cap 218HT would be +2 dB from Cap 1400.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #10 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
With the death in the family I had to take over part of the family business and haven't had a chance to get everything up and running. Will post a review as soon as possible,
Hey, I'm just messing with you...

Look who's talking??? I have yet to do my subwoofer crawl even though I have watched more than 20 movies after receiving Cap 1400!!!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #11 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 04:33 PM
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So this basically offers the same performance of the former Captivator 2400 but almost twice the size and 800.00 less?
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post #12 of 386 Old 08-18-2015, 07:49 PM
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Shipping to China or Hong Kong?
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post #13 of 386 Old 08-19-2015, 08:05 AM
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Shipping to China or Hong Kong?
Previous customers from China have arrange shipping however it should be possible.
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post #14 of 386 Old 08-19-2015, 09:44 PM
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Previous customers from China have arrange shipping however it should be possible.
You dont have any dealers here right?

I can arrange my own shipping no problem as I am in logistics

Can you please send me dims and weight ready for shipping so I can calculate? I also need p/u address etc.. Maybe just PM me :-)

Janus

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post #15 of 386 Old 08-20-2015, 07:14 AM
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Janus


Yes, we are an internet direct manufacture and do not have dealers.
Yes, you may arrange shipping.
Please send me an email.
Thanks,
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post #16 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 12:38 PM
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The Captivator 218HT is coming in a little more expensive than originally thought. The first prototype drivers came in right on target for all t/s parameters but motor strength so we're moving to an exotic voicecoil to get us were we need to be. The cabinet cost came in more expensive. The total cost is $173 more than the Captivator 1400. Seems to me like they are just to close in price and performance to make sense building. However, the Captivator 118HT still seems viable because it is a more affordable Captivator (36% less than Cap1400).


Thoughts?
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post #17 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 02:51 PM
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I think you should make a dual driver cap with the premium drivers and the SP amp.

Maybe make it dual opposed or use passive rads or both? Would certainly be an interesting product. Perhaps a PPSL style arrangement?
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post #18 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
The Captivator 218HT is coming in a little more expensive than originally thought. The first prototype drivers came in right on target for all t/s parameters but motor strength so we're moving to an exotic voicecoil to get us were we need to be. The cabinet cost came in more expensive. The total cost is $173 more than the Captivator 1400. Seems to me like they are just to close in price and performance to make sense building. However, the Captivator 118HT still seems viable because it is a more affordable Captivator (36% less than Cap1400).

Thoughts?
I would say that Cap 218HT would be for people who are looking for the most output/dollar. It is perfect for a dedicated HT but it is probably too big for most non-dedicated rooms.

Now, 118HT would be a great entry level product from boutique ID sub companies like JTR and Mark Seaton. Many people here want a JTR or a Mark Seaton but they are just not ready to spend $2000 on one.
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-31-2015 at 10:56 AM.
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post #19 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 05:01 PM
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Since the 218HT is designed to be most bang for the buck, would you consider using MDF instead of expensive BB?
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post #20 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 05:31 PM
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Since the 218HT is designed to be most bang for the buck, would you consider using MDF instead of expensive BB?
The cost difference on a cabinet that size between mdf and BB is insignificant for this level of product, when your buying material by the lift. But on a cabinet that size the weight increase would be substantial, unlikely to be worth the trade off. Imo
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post #21 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I would say that Cap 218HT would be for people who are looking for the most output/dollar. It is perfect for a dedicated HT but it is definitely too big for most non-dedicated rooms

Now, 118HT would be a great entry level product from boutique ID sub companies like JTR and Mark Seaton. Many people here want a JTR and Mark Seaton but they are just not ready to spend $2000 on one.
You could buy captivator 1000's in 11-1300.00 range each not to long ago.
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post #22 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 07:37 PM
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You could buy captivator 1000's in 11-1300.00 range each not to long ago.
See, I did not know that...

I thought JTR and Mark Seaton = boutique = high end = if you have to ask, you probably can't afford them...

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
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post #23 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 09:12 PM
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What is the xmax and xmech of the new 218HT drivers?
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post #24 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
See, I did not know that...

I thought JTR and Mark Seaton = boutique = high end = if you have to ask, you probably can't afford them...
Well to be fair they were the passive version. You could also get the passive 2400 for a very reasonable price as well. So yea I think there is a market for a 118HT just to have something in the more affordable range.
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post #25 of 386 Old 08-29-2015, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post
The cost difference on a cabinet that size between mdf and BB is insignificant for this level of product, when your buying material by the lift. But on a cabinet that size the weight increase would be substantial, unlikely to be worth the trade off. Imo
If that's the case, why does JTR say BB costs 4x more than MDF on their website?

BB get cheaper when you buy bulk, but wouldn't MDF get cheaper by buying bulk as well?
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post #26 of 386 Old 08-30-2015, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcodemz View Post
If that's the case, why does JTR say BB costs 4x more than MDF on their website?

BB get cheaper when you buy bulk, but wouldn't MDF get cheaper by buying bulk as well?
I think Jeff says BB costs 4x more than MDF on JTR site to emphasize that he uses more expensive parts.

Funky Waves is pointing out that even if Jeff switches to MDF and saves $30, the increased weight of 218 HT would increase the freight by more than that. The customer will end up paying more for a sub that would be much heavier.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-30-2015 at 01:22 AM.
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post #27 of 386 Old 08-30-2015, 03:28 AM
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I think it would depend on its performance in relation to the 1400. While I agree theres a demand for subs down @ 1200 with a lot of competition, another $500 gets the 1400. I believe your design of the 1400 has put you in a bad spot, its a beast and cant be beat in its price range, price of it isn't exactly low hanging fruit which does keep some from going elsewhere. If I didn't by my JTRs used I wouldn't own them, Im stoked I had the chance to get them and wouldn't trade them,ever, it would have been hard to justify buying new, not asmuch now, but still a chunk of change for me.


I say if you like your market niche than don't bother. JTR,Seaton, Funk all have the rep of quality gear, that you will pay for and get quality. There aren't many so called "quality" subs options at $1200, how busy do you want to be I guess is the salient point, at that price you would be balls out IMHO
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post #28 of 386 Old 08-30-2015, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I think it would depend on its performance in relation to the 1400. While I agree theres a demand for subs down @ 1200 with a lot of competition, another $500 gets the 1400. I believe your design of the 1400 has put you in a bad spot, its a beast and cant be beat in its price range, price of it isn't exactly low hanging fruit which does keep some from going elsewhere. If I didn't by my JTRs used I wouldn't own them, Im stoked I had the chance to get them and wouldn't trade them,ever, it would have been hard to justify buying new, not asmuch now, but still a chunk of change for me.


I say if you like your market niche than don't bother. JTR,Seaton, Funk all have the rep of quality gear, that you will pay for and get quality. There aren't many so called "quality" subs options at $1200, how busy do you want to be I guess is the salient point, at that price you would be balls out IMHO
Then how about building 15 inch ported version around $1000? It would be a great entry level JTR product for those who can't afford their more potent ones. It would have to compete with RA, PSA, and HSU but as you guys all know, JTR has a great reputation and will attract possibly more customers due to better affordability.
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post #29 of 386 Old 08-30-2015, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I think Jeff says BB costs 4x more than MDF on JTR site to emphasize that he uses more expensive parts.

Funky Waves is pointing out that even if Jeff switches to MDF and saves $30, the increased weight of 218 HT would increase the freight by more than that. The customer will end up paying more for a sub that would be much heavier.
True, the weight would likely offset the cost savings of MDF.

I looked it up for fun. At a store, grade BB baltic birch is actually 3-4x more expensive than MDF. On a wholesale level, it drops to being just around 2.5x more expensive. So switching to MDF saves about $80-$100. However I can see shipping cost to eat up maybe half of the savings.

One thing I couldn't find was how much lighter BB is compared to MDF. Does anyone know?
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post #30 of 386 Old 08-30-2015, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcodemz View Post
True, the weight would likely offset the cost savings of MDF.

I looked it up for fun. At a store, grade BB baltic birch is actually 3-4x more expensive than MDF. On a wholesale level, it drops to being just around 2.5x more expensive. So switching to MDF saves about $80-$100. However I can see shipping cost to eat up maybe half of the savings.

One thing I couldn't find was how much lighter BB is compared to MDF. Does anyone know?
Maybe its different where they are located and the chain of supply, is different for BB vs MDF compared to us/our suppliers.

The weight difference is about 18-20%

Nathan Funk
Funk Audio
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