The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
I decided against building it for now. I hesitated because it looked like it would be a real pain to actually build the thing in the space I have available and then I decided to make a change to the front stage in order to be able to move my LR a bit wider. This meant rebuilding my front subs which uses a pair of UXL-18. I was going to just build new boxes for them of the required shape but then I decided instead to move these NF and build a new sub up front using the current woofer de jour, the B&C 21DS115. This means I'll have these behind me



and this up front



I am also planning to redo the whole front stage to use a baffle wall so that sub will then sit in the middle of the front stage in that orientation. This will take a bit more time to work out though as that is beyond my DIY skills It will stand upright in the corner until then. I'm just starting on that main sub build this weekend so hopefully will have it ready to install in a month or so.
Oh ok, sounds like you still have a good plan though! So you'll have sealed enclosures for the UXL-18's right behind you then right (looks like it from the pics)? If so, I don't think you'll be to disappointed! Not sure what kind of seating you have, but the sealed real close behind you should still give you a whole lot of TR in the entire range.

Thanks for the pics and updates! Sounds like you have some work ahead of you but should be good
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post #1592 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@3ll3d00d I haven't checked in on your threads lately, but hows your build on the Nearfield multi-tuned Beast of a sub going? Maybe I missed it and you finished it!?

@derrickdj1 Just curious if you pretty much got youra system the way you wanted it. IIRC, the last time you talked about it you had changed it back to the way you had it before you tried the LLT nearfield. Your probably just enjoying it all now huh!!

@dominguez1 how about you Dom, any changes, upgrades or tweaks on the way or are you pretty content with it all dialed in the way it is now?

Sorry fellas for all the questions, I guess I'm just feeling chatty today
Nothing new for me...pretty content with my setup right now! My last upgrade was the 1200D and I haven't really wanted for more!

It's funny...been noticing more and more of a trend; or at least people admitting to it:

Everyone loves to experience "demo time" when you crank your system and get obliterated...but what's interesting is that once you know you've have it, we dial it down down for normal everyday movie watching!
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post #1593 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Nothing new for me...pretty content with my setup right now! My last upgrade was the 1200D and I haven't really wanted for more!

It's funny...been noticing more and more of a trend; or at least people admitting to it:

Everyone loves to experience "demo time" when you crank your system and get obliterated...but what's interesting is that once you know you've have it, we dial it down down for normal everyday movie watching!
Nice ..glad to hear your real content right now. Yep ..that little 1200D really can be the icing on cake and deliver that last little bit (or a lot)!

I agree on the trend. Demo time is always fun for max intensity or close to it, but dialing it back down some for normal movie watching is nice too! It's nice to be able to have it if you want it or back it back down if you don't I think one of the mains reasons I like demo time so much during the day, is that at night I'm forced to back it back down whether I want to or not.

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post #1594 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 10:32 AM
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Funny your asking I just sat down and about to start all over with all my filters in the mini dsp.
The first graph I got was flat to 12 hz. after adjusting gains and putting in filters in the mini dsp and then once I ran Audyssey It changed everything to where the bass dropped like a rock at 23 hz and looked great up to 100hz but I want at lest 15hz and up in my room so I'm starting over. I'm starting to have a love hate relationship with Audyssey xt32
The nearfield sound great I think I might try plugging the ports to see how they look/sound to. I've been running them with only 2 inuke 3k's which I know isn't right because of how I have them wired but It it was recommend to try this out first. I'll add another inuke 3k them this weekend and see what happens with more power. Wish me luck once I'm done I'll be all over the vib app to see what kind of numbers I get.

My madness as of right now in the room with cables and my mic for rew.
I gave up on getting flat pass 15 Hz a long time ago. Partly due to room size and also to having a vented system. You just don't need to try and get near the single digits. You have 10 + db over a sealed system in the 15-30 Hz area. This will deliver more than a few Hz of extra extension. Spl is tied into all this TR stuff. 10 db is a lot in the ULF! You don't needed it except to see the graph. I am flat to 15 Hz +/- 2.5 db's but, that does not mean I am not pushing some serious db's. at 10 Hz, lol.. I am just not flat and so what, lol.

Unless you have a tremendous amount of firepower, the single digits will come with room gain and most rooms over 2200 cu ft. will not give much in the room gain scenario.
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post #1595 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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@coolrda I know your probably still bustin it with trying to finish up your remodel and all, but if you see this sometime I was just curious if your TR changes much with your Crowsons as you recline. I don't remember if you said when you use to do all your MA readings with VS if you took the measurements in upright, partial or full recline. When you watch movies or demo, do you recline quite a ways back, or just a little bit?

If your to swamped to reply, then no worries. Hope all is going well with the remodel! Then you can come on back here and tell us how your new amps made all the difference for your VNF subs and MA's I'm looking forward to hearing about it!
It's pretty crazy with several allnighters but it's going well. Today marks 5 weeks since starting. This makeover is quite daunting. I've been busting it but everything has gone relatively smooth considering the decision to start this was only 2 months ago. Doing finish and paint now so it about wrapped up. Then back to the room. I've been so focused on this that I forgot about the new seating until getting a call from them yesterday. Looking forward to that. While I will be building new sub cabs and surround speakers and changing a few things, I'm close to calling it good.

I both test and watch with seat upright, only occasionally reclined. I think the feel is different more from the body's response at different angles and axes, as opposed to the seat. The new amp is remarkable. I'll post more in a couple weeks.
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post #1596 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 12:33 PM
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It's pretty crazy with several allnighters but it's going well. Today marks 5 weeks since starting. This makeover is quite daunting. I've been busting it but everything has gone relatively smooth considering the decision to start this was only 2 months ago. Doing finish and paint now so it about wrapped up. Then back to the room. I've been so focused on this that I forgot about the new seating until getting a call from them yesterday. Looking forward to that. While I will be building new sub cabs and surround speakers and changing a few things, I'm close to calling it good.

I both test and watch with seat upright, only occasionally reclined. I think the feel is different more from the body's response at different angles and axes, as opposed to the seat. The new amp is remarkable. I'll post more in a couple weeks.
Sounds like a on of work, but I'm sure it'll be well worth it!!

Funny you mention watch as well as test/measure with VS! Back when I was having a few issues with Time Alignment between my TTs/MAs and Subs (mainly in that 15hz and below area), I could actually see quite a difference in seat movement when stepping down through the tones in EOT intro, as the timing got closer aligned.

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post #1597 of 2157 Old 06-30-2017, 07:21 PM
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If you want to tone down the orange glow from the gain controls, these work very well:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/15-O-Ring...ord=15+o+rings
Of course, you might need all that light to avoid tripping over the cables.

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post #1598 of 2157 Old 07-03-2017, 06:02 AM
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@Brazle you still really enjoying your new nearfield DIY beast? Did you get it dialed in like you want? Your on a suspended floor right? I bet your TR is pretty amazing between that and it being VNF right behind you!

@eng-399 are you still alive after the beating your new nearfield killers are probably giving you?

@MKtheater hows yours coming along?
I am not building NF. I moved the seats closer to the front. I am still testing and building speakers and once I decide I can calibrate and really test the new subs. I still can't believe how potent just two XXX ported are, even mid bass.
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post #1599 of 2157 Old 07-07-2017, 07:20 PM
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So this post doesn't involve VibSensor, but does involve TR and one of those little white Hostess donuts (you know the little small white powdered ones). You guys might get somewhat of a kick out of this, I know me and my 6 year old daughter did.

She and I were both home today (she's on summer break), and for something different to watch together other than Beauty and the Beast, Trolls, Cinderella, or Sing, we watched parts of Jacks the Giant Slayer. I was in one of the side seats on the end of my couch, and she was setting in the middle MLP seat right beside me. She takes up about half of the seat surface and weighs about 40lbs. We were eating some of those little white donuts. She had one of them sitting right beside her on the other half of the seat surface while she was eating another. Anytime one of those giants took a step/stomp or something else bass related happened with them, that little white donut would bounce all over, and even got some pretty good clearance form the seat surface at times. I was kind of surprised at this since her bodyweight was on the seat as well.

We both thought is was entertaining as hell and laughed our butts off. She especially thought it was hilarious! Good fun for me as well LOL

TR is just fun, no matter how old/young or who you are

Jack the Giant Slayer has some amazing bass in it. Its one of those that I feel really helps if run your bass a little hotter than normal though to get the most out of it.

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post #1600 of 2157 Old 07-08-2017, 12:34 PM
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So this post doesn't involve VibSensor, but does involve TR and one of those little white Hostess donuts (you know the little small white powdered ones). You guys might get somewhat of a kick out of this, I know me and my 6 year old daughter did.

She and I were both home today (she's on summer break), and for something different to watch together other than Beauty and the Beast, Trolls, Cinderella, or Sing, we watched parts of Jacks the Giant Slayer. I was in one of the side seats on the end of my couch, and she was setting in the middle MLP seat right beside me. She takes up about half of the seat surface and weighs about 40lbs. We were eating some of those little white donuts. She had one of them sitting right beside her on the other half of the seat surface while she was eating another. Anytime one of those giants took a step/stomp or something else bass related happened with them, that little white donut would bounce all over, and even got some pretty good clearance form the seat surface at times. I was kind of surprised at this since her bodyweight was on the seat as well.

We both thought is was entertaining as hell and laughed our butts off. She especially thought it was hilarious! Good fun for me as well LOL

TR is just fun, no matter how old/young or who you are

Jack the Giant Slayer has some amazing bass in it. Its one of those that I feel really helps if run your bass a little hotter than normal though to get the most out of it.

That is a cute story SBurger. Spending time with the kids is always great.
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post #1601 of 2157 Old 07-09-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
So this post doesn't involve VibSensor, but does involve TR and one of those little white Hostess donuts (you know the little small white powdered ones). You guys might get somewhat of a kick out of this, I know me and my 6 year old daughter did.

She and I were both home today (she's on summer break), and for something different to watch together other than Beauty and the Beast, Trolls, Cinderella, or Sing, we watched parts of Jacks the Giant Slayer. I was in one of the side seats on the end of my couch, and she was setting in the middle MLP seat right beside me. She takes up about half of the seat surface and weighs about 40lbs. We were eating some of those little white donuts. She had one of them sitting right beside her on the other half of the seat surface while she was eating another. Anytime one of those giants took a step/stomp or something else bass related happened with them, that little white donut would bounce all over, and even got some pretty good clearance form the seat surface at times. I was kind of surprised at this since her bodyweight was on the seat as well.

We both thought is was entertaining as hell and laughed our butts off. She especially thought it was hilarious! Good fun for me as well LOL

TR is just fun, no matter how old/young or who you are

Jack the Giant Slayer has some amazing bass in it. Its one of those that I feel really helps if run your bass a little hotter than normal though to get the most out of it.
Video of this or it didn't happen....
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post #1602 of 2157 Old 07-09-2017, 10:17 AM
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Video of this or it didn't happen....
lol yeah I definitely need to video it!

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post #1603 of 2157 Old 07-09-2017, 10:19 AM
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I am not building NF. I moved the seats closer to the front. I am still testing and building speakers and once I decide I can calibrate and really test the new subs. I still can't believe how potent just two XXX ported are, even mid bass.
Awesome that just those two XXX ported subs are so potent! So did you move your seats forward a little more to be closer to your screen, or just wanted to be a little further away from those two subs?

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post #1604 of 2157 Old 07-11-2017, 04:50 PM
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Closer to both screen and subs. Yeah, I can't believe how powerful and good just two 18s can sound. I may add two more but I would not even use them.
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post #1605 of 2157 Old 07-12-2017, 05:04 AM
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"Just two 18s."
I love it!

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post #1606 of 2157 Old 07-14-2017, 07:42 AM
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Well, I finally got a 7.2 system firing and calibrated using xt32 and then turning it off. I use Audyssey for levels and distances only. I may be crazy but just two of the XXX ported with that monster @LTD02 designed port feels stronger than my previous front wall of 8 SIHT18s. They are very powerful and very detailed, meaning I can hear many bass notes rather than one. I bet the giant wall just loves these drivers. They are also more violent feeling. Now I need a way to measure REW and post the pics. My computer that had all the data stored fried and photobucket sucks now.
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post #1607 of 2157 Old 07-14-2017, 10:42 AM
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photobucket sucks now.
I noticed that, too. TinyPic still works, but use an ad blocker.
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post #1608 of 2157 Old 07-14-2017, 03:50 PM
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EOT-

The new setup-

4-21's slot ported and 6-15's slot ported nearfield.

I ran this a few times and I feel my nearfield subs can handle more power since they didn't seem to be in any distress during
This clip or make any chuffing noises from the ports.
The first test was nearfields alone at -5 on the avr and it able to go to plus 16 I think??? Never took that high...
The second was all the subs together this test I had the level on the avr at -13.5. The energy in the room is pant shaking at this level and all my doors pulse including the ceiling and walls. It gets pretty scary during this clip... not to the subs but to the house. Here's what I got I'll run some more tomorrow morning when no one is home.

Again this was at -13.5 on the avr.

I think my last setup had better low end...
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post #1609 of 2157 Old 07-14-2017, 07:45 PM
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Cool

Hi Mike, good to see you posting on this thread again. I will let coolrda comment on the graphs. We have to get you to do some reference clips we are all familiar with. You have put together a great HT system.

I don't ever like going past MV 0 because there will be clipping in the digital domain. This could cause an amp or speaker malfunction. Most times it is of no consequence and can be considered soft clipping but, why take a chance.

This thread has been a bit quiet and you may be the guy to wake it up a bit, lol.
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post #1610 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 12:20 AM
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I think my last setup had better low end...
Your measurement has some big disturbance right at the start which will corrupt the PSD view. Did you put a delay on the measurement when you set it going?
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post #1611 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 12:24 AM
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I don't ever like going past MV 0 because there will be clipping in the digital domain.
That isn't generally true. MV is, in most processors at least, operating on an analogue signal and whether it clips depends on the total gain applied via the MV and channel trims.
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post #1612 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 11:41 AM
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Digital files are meant for a certain size space, in general this space does not allow for unclipped signal above 0 db. All avr processors are not equal and some will provide good floating point processing to exceed the signal. Most of us will agree that going beyond 0 db is entering into clipping, a form of distortion. This is not all bad.

Music people like analog clipping with our tube amps. This is softer clipping. This give a certain warm sound and is pleasant to the ears. Digital clipping is harsher and more like hitting a brick wall. Gain structure comes into play as well as input signal limits, voltage and current delivery. Many of our systems have a mixture of pro and home cinema gear. When we see the clip light blinking it means a portion of the signal is above 0 db. This is not necessarily bad but, sets a proceed with caution warning. If we ignore the caution, some piece of gear in the chain may be damaged.

It is extremely hard for me to know the absolute danger point in this complex mixture of gear and the recording of the movie files. Some safety is built into many of the avr's and even mines can support a level of +12 over reference on some movies. On other movies, I will damage something.

The goal early in the ULF thread was to produce a clean spl and not max spl which involves clipped signals. This is why there is a theoretical side of the ULF scorecard Vs the actual measured data. At le last this is my understanding and I seldom go past 0 db. The movies are only design to be so loud and anything beyond is getting into clipping and added distortion.

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post #1613 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 12:10 PM
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My point is that the volume control in an AVR typically occurs after processing and after the DAC so it is operating on an analogue signal, it is not operating in the digital domain. You can refer to http://hometheaterhifi.com/technical...-and-pre-pros/ for a more in depth discussion if you're interested, the block diagram in http://www.mds.com/wp-content/upload...AE77_rev1d.pdf is an example of such a system.

Anyway I was just responding to the point that MV > 0 *will* result in clipping, obviously it gets more likely as the level rises but there is nothing special about MV=0 in that regard, it just depends on your particular setup.
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post #1614 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 01:38 PM
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I am in agreement about MV 0. Then a host of other factors come into play. At this point a host of other factors come into play and must be considered. At this point there are many variables that will differ depending on the system. The caution sign should come out at 0 db and the individual better know the limitation of the system.

Now, most of us that having been open to testing are a bit of risk taker and push the envelope.
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post #1615 of 2157 Old 07-15-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
EOT-

The new setup-

4-21's slot ported and 6-15's slot ported nearfield.

I ran this a few times and I feel my nearfield subs can handle more power since they didn't seem to be in any distress during
This clip or make any chuffing noises from the ports.
The first test was nearfields alone at -5 on the avr and it able to go to plus 16 I think??? Never took that high...
The second was all the subs together this test I had the level on the avr at -13.5. The energy in the room is pant shaking at this level and all my doors pulse including the ceiling and walls. It gets pretty scary during this clip... not to the subs but to the house. Here's what I got I'll run some more tomorrow morning when no one is home.

Again this was at -13.5 on the avr.

I think my last setup had better low end...
coolrda is the resident VS guru, but TR is looking really strong to me, especially at -13.5mv! TR at 10hz and 20hz look to be down ~ 6-10db lower than 15, 25, and 30hz. On your next VS tests, try to post the Power Spectrum graph with it in linear mode (yours is in log). Linear just makes it easier to see by stretching it out more across the graph instead of being all bunched on the right.

On your NF subs, you may be able to boost a little down low, at you lowest output around tune (10-12hz on your new NF beasts right?), as well as a little around 20hz to get the TR up in that area a little bit to better to match the other areas, since your strongest TR will probably come from those NF subs. To keep your FR the same though, you'll probably have to lower those areas a little on your FF 21's. Some Crowsons could also bring those areas up as well, if you cant get your subs to do it (or don't want to mess with them anymore).

Just some thoughts that come to mind when looking over this. I still consider myself a novice sometimes compared to coolrda and a few of the others around here when it comes to TR, but have leaned a ton messing with mine and seeing what they've done with there's.
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Thanks guys for chiming in tonight once I get settled in at work I'll read these post. I had to work a double (midnights into day shift at work) last night and today and just jumped back on avs. To do this test again I'm going to have to take my screen down and really watch my 21's since the EOT clip is so low the drivers are really moving and are expensive so I'll see where there limits are so I don't damage them. The new nearfields have a lot more excursion left in them so this will be a nice test of new setup.
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post #1617 of 2157 Old 07-16-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by eng-399 View Post
@derrickdj1
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Thanks guys for chiming in tonight once I get settled in at work I'll read these post. I had to work a double (midnights into day shift at work) last night and today and just jumped back on avs. To do this test again I'm going to have to take my screen down and really watch my 21's since the EOT clip is so low the drivers are really moving and are expensive so I'll see where there limits are so I don't damage them. The new nearfields have a lot more excursion left in them so this will be a nice test of new setup.
if you just want to see what is going on then white noise is both less load on the drivers and a better choice for calibration purposes
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post #1618 of 2157 Old 07-16-2017, 12:50 AM
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if you just want to see what is going on then white noise is both less load on the drivers and a better choice for calibration purposes


Here's a few graphs after calibration on all ten subs in the room.

A curve that I like is this one for the room

I like to run the subs very hot as you can see lol
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post #1619 of 2157 Old 07-16-2017, 07:22 AM
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if you just want to see what is going on then white noise is both less load on the drivers and a better choice for calibration purposes
@eng-399 Yeah like 3lld00d way saying, the 0-50hz white noise file is fantastic and will allow you to see what's going on in that entire 0-50 range. It isn't as hard on gear and is great to calibrate with. It allows you to really fine tune TR - to see where your problem areas are and where your tweaks effect it pretty precisely. You might run the WN0-50 file in stereo or all channel stereo. I run mine in All Ch Stereo.

I do still like EOT intro, but white noise if fantastic!
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post #1620 of 2157 Old 07-17-2017, 07:19 PM
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Mike got me inspired so I was going to run the EOT clip. I have a new android phone and thought how would the VS results compare to the iPhone. I ran the clip and noticed the Marty Cube sub. The surround was waving and I have seen the LED numbers get wavy before due to vibrations in the eye but, not the surround of a sub. Ok, I see things that are not there sometimes. What's wrong with that, lol.

I cut everything off and went to examine the surround. Note pic.
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