The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:04 AM
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^^^ Cool, yeah I’m pretty sure I’ll love it and really looking forward to giving it a go.

For the White Noise, use the 0-50hz file.

Go to the first post in this thread and click on the link WN and Bursts. Then download the file named White_PN_131072_48000_0_50.wav. Burn it to a disc or use a USB stick or drive to play it through your player.

Just play it at -10mv like you did EOT. For this file, using stereo for the VS reading works good.

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post #1982 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:11 AM
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Will try this evening if storms hold off, not looking good though.
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post #1983 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:19 AM
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^^^ Beautiful EOT VS reading! Yeah now with the m^2 setting, all tones 25hz and below to 10hz are above 1e-00 in intensity levels. Crazy good and they all track as they should to match EOT intro PVA. Nice!!
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post #1984 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Will try this evening if storms hold off, not looking good though.
Holy cow, those are insane curves! I seem to remember most of us had problems with a dip in the 15hz on the EOT measurements, but not here! Text book rising curve as the hz go down.

I am speachless, actually....
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post #1985 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Holy cow, those are insane curves! I seem to remember most of us had problems with a dip in the 15hz on the EOT measurements, but not here! Text book rising curve as the hz go down.

I am speachless, actually....
Rising ls filter @30Hz +3db x2.

I should have mentioned this, but you picked it out anyway😎

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post #1986 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 05:01 AM
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^^^Well whatever LS settings your using is about right and allowing your TR to track the PVA graph of the movie real well (in this case the intro), making it accurate. To give you an example of what you want your VS on EOT intro TR to look like on the Power Spectrum view, here is the PVA we are trying to match. Those big 5 peaks, from left to right are 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30hz. 10hz is the last tone that is played (on the far left of the graphs). There is also a decent sized one at 45hz

EOT PVA…

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post #1987 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post

For the money this is the game changer, it feels natural. I know you will be blown away with one. Comparing jbls to the 18 is hard. If the platform was same size I would expect 3 to 1 to be the same. That keeps mass the same with jbls having more come area. They could be better.

The Iso's are the key, I'll say it again Tim's idea is NEXT LEVEL SCHHITT
Jeff....Thanks again for the props! Great to see The BOSS is gaining momentum and will benefit anyone who has been chasing the elusive ULF and TR dream.

It will take us a few steps closer to the ULF/TR nirvana we all chase until the next big thing hits! From my testing, I also found a couple other fascinating things that have to do with these JBL's in other configurations. Still working on those concepts now.

The BOSS is definitely more about a rigid platform and the isolators below it than it is about the driver. As long as the platform has a driver that can provide reasonable free-air response and respectable excursion, the BOSS experience will be pretty incredible if the correct isolators are used and the platform is rigid.

The good news for tweakers.....the BOSS isolators can be changed easily and inexpensively to impact TR in a big way without having to change power or drivers...how cool is that!
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post #1988 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 07:46 AM
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^^^ Cool, yeah I’m pretty sure I’ll love it and really looking forward to giving it a go.
Shelby....you will love it! And, you can experiment even more with different isolators to affect the desired TR. The BOSS combined with BEQ, you can literally dial in as much TR as you can stand even at -20dB...simply awesome for late night viewing. And, I've found even with steeper house curves, the effect still feels natural as the volume increases...it's an incredible feeling. Enjoy the rest of your vacation as much as possible....I know the feeling.....being away from our theaters is like taking our pacifiers away....lol.
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post #1989 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Holy cow, those are insane curves! I seem to remember most of us had problems with a dip in the 15hz on the EOT measurements, but not here! Text book rising curve as the hz go down.

I am speachless, actually....
Nalleh.....just take 3 of those JBL's behind you and put them underneath...lol. You'll be amazed if you follow the BOSS instructions and get the right platform and isolators. You may already have the platform if I understand what your stacker platform looks like. You may need to simplify it some and take away some of the degrees of freedom to keep it feeling natural and not rattling anywhere. Or, maybe it would be easier to start fresh with just a plywood platform all by itself. You have most of the materials already for a BOSS....just need a little push to take the leap of faith...lol.
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post #1990 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 08:17 AM
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^^ i might look into it

Hey man, where is your measurements??

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post #1991 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 08:55 AM
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^^^^ Hey Nalleh....Thanks.....I'm not much into posting my measurement data as you can tell....lol. I did give it a lot of thought about posting some of my data recently but in the end decided not to.

Not saying the data isn't important, quite the opposite. It's how I reached the conclusions I did. But, the data is only the beginning and never the end as the data only begs for more questions that need to be answered...lol. It's a repetitive and tedious loop that never ends until you want it to....lol.

My BOSS folder is full of measurement data from my experiments that I'm keeping for other reasons, but chose not to share publicly. It's more a question of what would benefit the home theater hobbyist.

In the end, the BOSS is all about the experience, and that's what I wanted to share. It's gratifying to see it catching on for ULF and TR enthusiasts in this forum!
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post #1992 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 09:42 AM
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Tim , So if I'm following you correctly, you're saying the Iso's only have so much give and the Jbl's take it to that point.

I hate to sound skeptical but it's my nature. I have been wrong before, when I fired up the Bossriser last weekend as matter of fact

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post #1993 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 09:57 AM
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^^^^ Jeff.....good question. What I'm saying is the TR with the prescribed isos gave the most comfortable and natural feeling using the JBL's. When those isos are placed in series (on top of one another), the spring constant is cut in half, so the TR gets even more unbelievable....almost too much unbelievable, at least to me anyway.

I think that was your experience also if I understood correctly when you doubled the isos.

You didn't change the driver or the power to the driver, you just simply added more isos and the TR sensitivity doubled subjectively on your main volume (-12db MV to -25 db MV for the same experience)

The experience is the same using the JBL's.

What the JBL's won't do, is give you the "flapping pants" feeling you're likely getting from the IB sub stroking 2 inches....lol. You won't get that feeling with the JBL's. But, you will get all the TR the body would ever need with the JBL's, at least my body anyway...lol.

That extra stroke from your driver can't force the spring much further in displacement because the isolators start to provide a lot more resistance to displacement once they're compressed more than a few millimeters. That's why the isos in series helped so much. Your displacement probably doubled because the spring constant was cut in half. Probably too much techno-babble but that's what my experiments shown with the JBL's also.

Hopefully we're saying the same thing.
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post #1994 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 02:06 PM
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Jeff....just thought of another way to explain it. Take the isolators I prescribed off your BOSS platform. The TR will go down significantly. The same thing will happen if you put stiffer isolators in place also. The TR will go down.

Your driver hasn't changed, it's still stroking 2" and you're still feeding it gobs of power, but your not feeling any TR, mostly just the "pants flapping" phenomena from the driver moving so much air.

That's what makes the BOSS so difficult to understand, less really is more in every possible way.

It's not so much about the motor on the BOSS platform or the power to that motor or the size of that motor, it's more about the springs underneath and some damping to make the system come alive and deliver a natural ULF and TR experience. It doesn't take much motor to do that since the springs are so soft and the platform so stiff.

The JBL's do a great job of delivering ample TR and ULF (sometimes too much with some BEQ) to any platform from 500 lbs fully loaded up to 2,000 lbs fully loaded that I've tested. And that's just 3 JBL's in each platform....pretty unbelievable I know, but it's true as you'll start to discover the power of the BOSS in your own experiments.

It doesn't take much power at all. It's all about a rigid platform and floating that platform as softly as possible to respond naturally to an disturbance, just like we feel ULF and TR in the real world from underneath us.
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post #1995 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 02:14 PM
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What is considered reference and is the level different as the frequency changes
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post #1996 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 02:32 PM
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^^^^ Hey Nalleh....Thanks.....I'm not much into posting my measurement data as you can tell....lol. I did give it a lot of thought about posting some of my data recently but in the end decided not to.

Not saying the data isn't important, quite the opposite. It's how I reached the conclusions I did. But, the data is only the beginning and never the end as the data only begs for more questions that need to be answered...lol. It's a repetitive and tedious loop that never ends until you want it to....lol.

My BOSS folder is full of measurement data from my experiments that I'm keeping for other reasons, but chose not to share publicly. It's more a question of what would benefit the home theater hobbyist.

In the end, the BOSS is all about the experience, and that's what I wanted to share. It's gratifying to see it catching on for ULF and TR enthusiasts in this forum!
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think publishing the data will take anything away from it. If anything, look at the data that GK is publishing and the enthusiasm it is generating. It might not be perfectly linear across all frequencies, or whatever reason you are not wanting to publish the data, but neither are our other TR setups. Even if it doesn't quite match up with the response of MAs (GK's data looks awfully promising though so I'm not saying that is actually the case), if it comes close it's still a winner. You know it's a winner based on the experience, so I wouldn't worry about the picture the data might paint. It's just going to put some data behind the experience and help us compare your setup and GK's, for example, and try to figure out what differences contribute to what differences in response, etc. So I hope you will reconsider and publish the data, because I truly feel only good will come out of it.

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post #1997 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:03 PM
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^^^ Aron....Thanks...some of my data would show more than I'm comfortable showing at this point....that's all I can say.

I trust the AVS community will provide ample data over the next few months with their own versions of the BOSS and probably a couple of the original BOSS designs also for comparison....lol.
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post #1998 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
What is considered reference and is the level different as the frequency changes
IIRC there are many posts on this subject and I think we came to no authoritative conclusion overall on this as there are just so many variables & preferences. Having said that, and IIRC, I think we judged that 1e-3G seemed a reasonable reference.

On the second Q, human sensitivity to vibration is definitely frequency dependent however there are different views on how to sum vibration across axes. The app I wrote used some values from some research paper that gave greater weight to X and Y when summing & I did use an vibration isoperception curve I found as a target curve once which I felt gave a nicely balanced feel. I could have just been post facto rationalising my measurements though
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post #1999 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:20 PM
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I was going to buy a jbl but I have a 12" Dayton RSSHO, im dropping it in over weekend. I can retrofit a new baffle quickly and run some tests. Im keen for the comparison .

@trhought we're on the same page. I just wanted to verify for me and for anyone else following
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post #2000 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 03:47 PM
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What is considered reference and is the level different as the frequency changes
Reduce your time to 10 seconds. 1 minute is waaaay to long
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post #2001 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 04:37 PM
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^^^ Aron....Thanks...some of my data would show more than I'm comfortable showing at this point....that's all I can say.

I don’t follow......
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post #2002 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 06:06 PM
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Volume seemed low in comparison to EOT
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post #2003 of 2157 Old 03-14-2019, 09:28 PM
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^^^Don’t worry too much about the levels on WN0-50hz, they look great and about right. WN0-50hz VS readings just reads lower in level compared to most movie track VS readings, including EOT intro (which EOT intro has VERY strong signals anyway and can be seen on the PVA graph at up around -10 to -5db signals levels, making those tones super-hot and part of the reason it’s considered dangerous and has killed some subs around here on AVS when not careful).

WN0-50hz usually reads about 10db or so lower. So, no worries, mainly it’s just great to show what your TR looks like across the board for intensity levels at all frequencies compared to each other from 0-50hz, as all tones in the WN file are equal in level. This allows you to see if you have any peaks or dips in your TR as well as axis (X,Y, and Z) overlay and is a great way to see it. Just keep in mind that VS (w/ 5lbs anyway on WN0-50hz doesn’t capture well at all below 8-10hz (usually drops off quite hard like a cliff) even if you’re getting strong TR under this area, which we know you probably are as well like Crowson MA’s). This is ok too, you just have to know this, so you don’t freak out and say "WTF, I know I’m getting way better single digit TR than that"!!!! LOL

A REW sweep 0-50hz may show below 10hz a little better. I think it did on Nalleh’s readings the other day IIRC. I haven’t tried a REW sweep on yet on mine.

Also, doesn’t really matter but your settings went back to g^2, so another reason it may look lower in levels to you besides the WN0-50hz file just reading on average about 10db or so lower anyway compared to most movie tracks, and probably even a REEW sweep. So just keep all this in mind when viewing your VS readings for WN0-50.

Also, when you post the readings, try to post it in linear view instead of log. Linear spans it out across the frequencies making it easier to read, otherwise it scrunches it all up and is harder to tell what’s what if that makes sense. You posted your EOT VS in linear, so do it like that.

Also, you’ve got your LPF set around 30hz right (IIRC), which is cool because that’s where you run it normally in your setup for movie watching, so it will reflect this in your reading. If you want to see what it looks like up 50hz as well (or what the BOSS can give above your normal 30hz LPF setting), you may want to run one this way as too. Just a thought, either way is fine.

Anyway, from what I can tell, your WN0-50hz reading looks great. Axis overlay around 27-30hz is pretty even. Above that (Y axis (RED)- forward and back movement) is dominant, and under (Z axis (BLUE) - up and down movement) is dominant, with X axis (GREEN - side to side) being kind of in the middle. I’m sure it feels awesome as you’ve said before Cool to see this from the BOSS!! Even though the BOSS is shaking the whole platform this way, your seating could be having an effect/influence on this as well and may show differently in different seating with the same BOSS setup. Seating itself can sometimes have a huge effect itself on what your TR readings look like (and feel like) as well IME. With the BOSS, this could be less likely to happen though, but can’t be sure. One way to find out I guess would be to run a VS with the phone on the platform itself. May read similar, or not. Doesn’t really matter since we don’t watch movies this way, but could be interesting to see

Thanks for posting all these VS readings @Gorilla Killa !!! I really appreciate it and love seeing them (as I'm sure others do as well) and is very informative!!!

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post #2004 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 01:31 AM
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Changed settings. I have to believe electronic roll off plays in to some of this no
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8hz ULF TR for the masses and the Cashless. Like a BOSS


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post #2005 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 01:48 AM
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If you want to get more accurate data then you can try https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ion-meter.html
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post #2006 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 02:33 AM
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That takes me to a page of all the threads ive posted in
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post #2007 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Changed settings. I have to believe electronic roll off plays in to some of this no
Why do you say that? As @SBuger said, VS isn’t that accurate below 10hz, so don’t worrie about that. Here is a resent one of mine:



Mine is not turned up as much as yours, but the shape of the curve is what is important, and as you can see you have deeper extension than me. Very impressive.

(That said, you could of course have some roll-of on your signal chain, and that can only be established by a loopback measurement)

EDIT: oh, and try to change your LPF to 60-80hz while measuring, to get reading up to 50hz(VS limit)
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post #2008 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
That takes me to a page of all the threads ive posted in
Because this forum software is rubbish

Search for a thread on the DIY board entitled "An rpi based DIY Vibration meter"

This will let you do accurate measurements to 200Hz
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post #2009 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 03:13 AM
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My Onkyo which is no longer with us was specd from 5-20khz. When my ib was up the rol
off was more gradual but I guess this isnt applies to apples anyway.

I'll put those up tonight, the 12" will be tomorrow
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post #2010 of 2157 Old 03-15-2019, 07:52 AM
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For all you ULF/TR junkies out there.....you know who you are......member @Chris Young just retrofitted his BOSS platform with Buttkickers. He describes the experience as quite natural but violent when it should be. Makes a lot of sense, as the BOSS is providing a solid bed of singe digit ULF and TR and the Buttkickers "kick" in at higher volume levels and frequencies....pretty awesome!

If interested in his "Earthquake Series" BOSS, check out his thread below.

Pretty cool to see the BOSS platform ideas starting to flow now!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...theater-3.html

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