The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread - Page 69 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 950Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2041 of 2157 Old 04-26-2019, 11:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked: 3330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Yes, the tilt and vibration buttons adds vital info before you do a screenshot, and makes comparisons more valuable, so please use them too



You sure have some awsome TR now, no wonder you are happy with them



I am a bit between projects ATM, as i have removed my BK’s and installed a 4xJBL BOSS and not quite setup properly yet, so i can’t get any VS done until next week, but i will get to it then

Two drivers per seat should be pretty crazy!

In the next week I’m going to stagger the MA’s under the MLP and see how that changes the experience/data. This was always my preference before, but it was more to even up the TR in each armrest than anything. Prior to the BOSS, I could notice a significant loss of TR without both MA’s under my seat, but now with just one on my side plus the BOSS it feels much better across the board.

Looking forward to some objective data to compare. I did post some old EOT graphs a while back when I got the MA’s, but they looked odd and always had a big spike where it shouldn’t have, maybe it was a weird resonance.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2042 of 2157 Old 04-26-2019, 11:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
This is the closest to a comparisson so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Incoming VibSensor from The Meg a few scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
And MA’s + BK’s. Y-axis looks a bit more uneven when combined, but still higher numbers. Look again a 8x Hudson!

SBuger and Sekosche like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2043 of 2157 Old 04-26-2019, 11:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Two drivers per seat should be pretty crazy!

In the next week I’m going to stagger the MA’s under the MLP and see how that changes the experience/data. This was always my preference before, but it was more to even up the TR in each armrest than anything. Prior to the BOSS, I could notice a significant loss of TR without both MA’s under my seat, but now with just one on my side plus the BOSS it feels much better across the board.

Looking forward to some objective data to compare. I did post some old EOT graphs a while back when I got the MA’s, but they looked odd and always had a big spike where it shouldn’t have, maybe it was a weird resonance.
Yeah, it will be fun to test it out. I am front iso only ATM, because MA stack in the rear, and must reconfigure to get iso in the rear, but expect it to be much better then.

Staggered? You mean one MA in the rear left corner and the other in the front right corner? And the whole couch was on a plattform?

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2044 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 12:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 3530
Good call @Nalleh moving all the VSing over here so we don't clutter up your room thread with tons of VS's, and yes so others can join in on the fun.

Ok so I got just a tiny bit of time today to run a quick VS on that Car Landing Time Stamp from BR 2049 that @Sekosche did since he wanted to see some comparisons. This is not with the BOSS because I wanted to check out the BKs without the BOSS platform like I had it before, so I moved out the BOSS and did a quick setup of the other right quick. Was real curious what they would feel like since I've been running the BOSS for a week or so.

I forgot to BEQ this one (not sure if Sekosche did or not). So this scene definitely felt mean (I've always loved this scene) and looks fairly similar to his. Mine is a bit higher levels in some areas, but still pretty close. That is saying a ton about the BOSS, because as Nalleh and I know, the BKs can seriously bring it.

This was at -12 MV I think with the BKs and felt pretty crazy. I could have turned them up more, but this felt about right. I was running my subs too, but thought my VNFs felt lacking in comparison to what they normally do. I really need to run a re-cal (or at least investigate) when I move the BOSS back in and make sure everything is on track.





So, I also ran through a few others clips (didn't get the VSs though), and I'm actually missing the BOSS. That thing just feels amazing in a lot of ways, that's all there is to it. I do think the BKs feel more brutal and the MAs seems to bring the Singles at a little higher levels and overall may feel a bit more intense. BUT, I think I like the feel of the BOSS better. So, the BOSS is going back in, plus gonna try to get my MAs working better with the BOSS and maybe even my BKs with all those Isos, but probably don't even need them.

Sekosche, your VS readings look damn good on all those and I'm sure they feel even better with your BOSS + MAs. Awesome job man!!
Sekosche likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #2045 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 12:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Awsome graphs guys, and i really like how we now seem to have them look the same visually, that makes comparing much easier, so please try to make them all look like this going forward

@SBuger , notice any improvements using the new iso’s now on your BK’s, or has it been to long ago to remember properly?
Sekosche likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2046 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 02:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked: 3330
The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread

The only movie I used BEQ on was The Meg that I posted in Nalleh’s thread. Y’all have some crazy TR that’s for sure! On full bandwidth monster bass movies, it’s easier for me to quickly demo material and take readings without BEQ.

It’s been a while since I read the VS thread, so I’m trying to piece together all the ways to compare data and read the graphs. What’s the proper way for comparing readings on the log scale, do we refer to the PSD, ISD, or Peak numbers?
@Nalleh I do plan to stagger the MA’s again catty-corner under the MLP only (right side of couch), because I used to run them front left and back right for maximum TR on my side.

Is a higher Z axis more important for vertical energy transfer into the seating? I guess that depends on the setup, but with the BOSS, I get a lot more vertical acceleration and travel in my seat versus MA’s only.

My TR response seems pretty flat to me, but I haven’t actually checked; the TR definitely seems to feel a lot more violent in my system above ~15Hz or so. I think anything I’ve measured that’s between a PSD of 1e-02 and 1e-01 is extremely intense, and anything stronger than that is almost too much for me. Maybe it’s just the nature of 10Hz tones being much slower to cycle, so they don’t feel as sharp to my body as higher the frequencies 20-30Hz do, because even when the 10Hz hits near 1e-01, it’s a completely different experience.

This week I’ll have to try some REW sweeps and a white noise file.

Have fun with your systems!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 04-27-2019 at 02:32 AM.
Sekosche is online now  
post #2047 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 02:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2256 Post(s)
Liked: 2281
what are the timestamps for the 2049 scene?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Is a higher Z axis more important for vertical energy transfer into the seating? I guess that depends on the setup, but with the BOSS, I get a lot more vertical acceleration and travel in my seat versus MA’s only.
doesn't really answer your Q but fwiw a seated human is, according to some research, approx 2-2.5x more sensitive to vibration on the x y axes than z & perception is driven by the total vibration rather than individual axes
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #2048 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 03:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
The only movie I used BEQ on was The Meg that I posted in Nalleh’s thread. Y’all have some crazy TR that’s for sure! On full bandwidth monster bass movies, it’s easier for me to quickly demo material and take readings without BEQ.

It’s been a while since I read the VS thread, so I’m trying to piece together all the ways to compare data and read the graphs. What’s the proper way for comparing readings on the log scale, do we refer to the PSD, ISD, or Peak numbers?
@Nalleh I do plan to stagger the MA’s again catty-corner under the MLP only (right side of couch), because I used to run them front left and back right for maximum TR on my side.

Is a higher Z axis more important for vertical energy transfer into the seating? I guess that depends on the setup, but with the BOSS, I get a lot more vertical acceleration and travel in my seat versus MA’s only.

My TR response seems pretty flat to me, but I haven’t actually checked; the TR definitely seems to feel a lot more violent in my system above ~15Hz or so. I think anything I’ve measured that’s between a PSD of 1e-02 and 1e-01 is extremely intense, and anything stronger than that is almost too much for me. Maybe it’s just the nature of 10Hz tones being much slower to cycle, so they don’t feel as sharp to my body as higher the frequencies 20-30Hz do, because even when the 10Hz hits near 1e-01, it’s a completely different experience.

This week I’ll have to try some REW sweeps and a white noise file.

Have fun with your systems!

I like to use the power spectrum window as it shows all axis on all frequencies(well 0-50hz in this case), and when comparing during tuning/optimizing i have found the 3 numbers for each axis shows differences really good.
The most important axis is Z-axis(up and down), followed by Y-axis(forward and backwards) and lastly the X-axis(side to side).

Example pic. Here is the 3 numbers for Z-axis marked in red. These are pretty consistent and the slightest change in timing/delay shows up good on them. This is also why it is important to press "vibration" before taking a acreenshot, as it gives you the rms vibration numbers, which is important.



The bottom two graphs have Y-axis marked blue, as this was a experiment with trying the BK’s out of phase, and shows rather exellent that while the Z-axis remained almost the same, the Y-axis got much better with higher numbers.

Here is where the raw window can show this difference much better, just look at the red Y-axis:



And of course the peak resonances for each axis is also interesting as they show both how strong and at which frequencies the peaks are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
what are the timestamps for the 2049 scene?
doesn't really answer your Q but fwiw a seated human is, according to some research, approx 2-2.5x more sensitive to vibration on the x y axes than z & perception is driven by the total vibration rather than individual axes
Timestamps is in the graph title

I am not sure if you are saying the same thing, but my experience is that it is better to have "medium" combined Z and Y axis movement than "maximum" Z only movement. It feels bigger when several axis are excited at once.

That is why it is recommended to mount the MA’s in the rear to get more of a rocking motion= more axis excited.
SBuger and Sekosche like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2049 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 04:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2256 Post(s)
Liked: 2281
odd, I get almost no LFE in the audio between 00:03:40 and 00:03:55

I think we are saying the same thing (about the importance of movement on all axes)
Nalleh likes this.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #2050 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 07:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
odd, I get almost no LFE in the audio between 00:03:40 and 00:03:55

I think we are saying the same thing (about the importance of movement on all axes)

If it is the scene i think it is, it is when Officer K lands his flying car(car landing in title) at Sappers farm, and if so: it should POUND!


Ok, good we agree
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2051 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 08:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked: 3330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post



I am not sure if you are saying the same thing, but my experience is that it is better to have "medium" combined Z and Y axis movement than "maximum" Z only movement. It feels bigger when several axis are excited at once.



That is why it is recommended to mount the MA’s in the rear to get more of a rocking motion= more axis excited.

Thanks for the info everyone!

I really noticed the back and forth rocking motion from the MA’s more when I added the soft isos. I don’t seem to have nearly as much of it though compared to the X and Z axis which are generally a lot of higher in my readings, but is this phone placement specific at all? I lay my phone long way, horizontal on my seat so it would make sense to me that it would be able to have more X axis movement this way with more surface area for potential movement along this plane, but maybe that’s irrelevant.

Now that I’ve finally got multiple devices to tune for TR, I’m going to be tweaking the NF, BOSS, and MA’s with VS as my guide. Curious how phase affects them all together, especially since the iNuke phase I have on 180 now, but that’s apparently normal phase for these amps.

Now that I have a proper platform isolated well, I’m finding SPL much less important from my subs; but I still listen pretty loud to most material for maximum TR the way I’m calibrated, around -8mv lately.

Looks like I’m getting pretty good ~10Hz movement when needed, but the 12-20Hz does level off pretty flat in most scenes and then the 20-35Hz really hits with authority. This is with a 25Hz LPF on the MA’s and 30Hz on the BOSS. VNF subs tuned to ~21Hz with a more shallow 12dB HPF.

Here’s a few more scenes, timestamps in the title:

Now the phone directly on the BOSS platform for fun to show what my feet feel when I’m not reclining during the Hulk Smash, crazy Z axis energy:
And Hulk Smash in my seat:
SBuger likes this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #2052 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 09:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
The general rule has been laying the phone with screen facing up, where your butt would normally be(more to the back of the seat) and with top of phone screen facing forward at your TV.
SBuger and Sekosche like this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2053 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 02:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Hmm, did a little test today. So i have BOSS in my setup now, and use the same delay as the MA’s. In other words max negative delay. So just for fun i tried to give the BOSS the same delay as the farfield subs, and below is the VS graphs of that.
It is from the start of The Meg, as used above 02:20, and i just played it while changing the delay on the BOSS.

This also shows how consistent VS can be, i did 2 of each measurements, and the 2 upper graphs is with the MA delay, and they are pretty much identical, while the 2 bottom ones are with the same delay as the farfields= 8ms compared to the MA’s. Those 2 are also identical.

The 2 upper curves looks very smooth and nice on all axis, while the 2 bottom one have a slight dip around 25hz in the Y-axis.
BUT look at all the higher numbers on the Z-axis !
And also the peak resonances are higher on both Z and Y- axis, while smaller on X-axis.



It actually felt more in sync too, tighter, and more punchy.

Not sure what to make of this, LOL.
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2054 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,604
Mentioned: 311 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2267 Post(s)
Liked: 9510
^^^ You are running the BOSS out-of-phase with the MAs, right? I know you have the 2 JBLs opposite phase with each other, but I mean you have the JBLs set to fire down not up, right?
Nalleh likes this.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is online now  
post #2055 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 03:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
^^^ You are running the BOSS out-of-phase with the MAs, right? I know you have the 2 JBLs opposite phase with each other, but I mean you have the JBLs set to fire down not up, right?
Yes, the ones facing down are in phase, while the ones facing up are out of phase, as they should be. So with a 9V battery test they both pump down. And i tried switching phase too, and it was a mess
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 04-27-2019 at 04:02 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #2056 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 07:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 3530
Hey @Nalleh - is this with the MAs under the Isos on the bottom of platform? If so, I may have to try that as well once I get things going again. I saw you say you were going to test that in your thread.

I ran this a couple days ago with the BOSS only before I took it out to try the other way. Our graphs look almost identical with BOSS only on this Time Stamp. Your numbers are higher probably because you had it turned up more than me, and also mine was LPF'd at 25hz I believe, so starts dropping off more over 30hz. But still almost identical looking lol

Yeah pretty crazy what changing your delay did with the axis numbers and feeling more in sync, tighter and punchy too. Did you have your subs running as well, or is this JUST BOSS only?

@Sekosche - Ok, now I know why your X (Green axis - side to side) was reading higher than your Y (Front to Back) in almost all your readings. I was wondering about that. It's because you had your phone placed long ways, instead of facing the front towards TV making X and Y trade places. If one is going to be lower, its usually the X side to side axis.

So, Mine and Nalleh's look more similar than yours (maybe because we are both on suspended floors, but still follows close to the same pattern.

Sekosche likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #2057 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 09:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
@SBuger , sorry about that i should have mentioned that: these were with all subs and MA’s, that is why the delay adjustment had such impact. If it was just the BOSS, it wouldn’t matter right?
And it was actually front iso ONLY! Stacked MA’s only in the rear

In that regard, the fact that our graphs are so similar is even more strange, LOL.

Here are 2 with with different levels and JUST the BOSS, but still front iso only:



And they are even more similar to yours, it is scary!
I run a 40hz LPF on the BOSS, so yeah that’s why it is flatter than yours up high.

But if you compare to my earlier with MA’s only the BOSS drops of big time below 20hz, probably because front iso only. But still impressive


PS: don’t forget to tap "tilt" and "vibration" before screenshot
SBuger likes this.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT

Last edited by Nalleh; 04-27-2019 at 10:05 PM.
Nalleh is online now  
post #2058 of 2157 Old 04-27-2019, 11:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
@SBuger , sorry about that i should have mentioned that: these were with all subs and MA’s, that is why the delay adjustment had such impact. If it was just the BOSS, it wouldn’t matter right?
And it was actually front iso ONLY! Stacked MA’s only in the rear

In that regard, the fact that our graphs are so similar is even more strange, LOL.

Here are 2 with with different levels and JUST the BOSS, but still front iso only:

And they are even more similar to yours, it is scary!
I run a 40hz LPF on the BOSS, so yeah that’s why it is flatter than yours up high.

But if you compare to my earlier with MA’s only the BOSS drops of big time below 20hz, probably because front iso only. But still impressive


PS: don’t forget to tap "tilt" and "vibration" before screenshot
Yes, Full Iso will probably help, But IIRC correctly with your MAs (and BKs) on White Noise 0-50hz or 0-60hz sweep, you have a bit of a dip between 20hz to 30hz, making 10-20hz and 30hz and above read higher and 20-30hz read lower. This will make the VS on Time Stamps (and this Meg TS in particular that we are looking at now) read differently versus no dip in the response on a White Noise reading.

So, if you remember when I ran the WN0-50 with the BOSS, it was pretty flat from 10-30hz, and I bet yours is too on the BOSS (since it reads real similar to my BOSS reading on this MEG TS), or close and will probably be better bringing the low end up a little more under 20hz with full iso. Being flatter without the dip between 20-30hz will make the VS on that Meg time stamp that your used to seeing with your MAs and BKs (pre-BOSS) appear to drop off more under 20hz on the BOSS reading, if that makes sense.

I'm not saying that you wont get more still out of the MAs down super low, as this is where they excel, but my point is, is that the overall TR curve from 10-30hz probably looks different between the two (like I said may be the case up above) to begin with, and differences are showing up in the Meg VS Time Stamp readings. The flatter TR response will follow the PVA more closely, or it should anyway and this is what we want.
Nalleh likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #2059 of 2157 Old 04-28-2019, 12:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked: 3330
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@Sekosche - Ok, now I know why your X (Green axis - side to side) was reading higher than your Y (Front to Back) in almost all your readings. I was wondering about that. It's because you had your phone placed long ways, instead of facing the front towards TV making X and Y trade places. If one is going to be lower, its usually the X side to side axis.



So, Mine and Nalleh's look more similar than yours (maybe because we are both on suspended floors, but still follows close to the same pattern.




I bet suspended floors helps, but y’all probably have more TR regardless, with more MA’s, and BK’s, but I expect my current setup could be significantly improved with some tweaking and proper phone placement for VS readings. Interesting developments lead to further investigation.

It’s fun to know where my output stacks up and where I have to work on.
SBuger and Nalleh like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast
Sekosche is online now  
post #2060 of 2157 Old 04-28-2019, 11:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
DesertDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 748
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 1385
I finally got a chance to run a couple tests tonight after GoT.

Here's what I'm getting from the BOSS-Sac only. I had the subs muted for each run. I wanted to see what it can produce. All runs were done at -10 mv and the only filter I'm using is to flatten the NX3000D.

Here's what I get for the WotW Quake scene that's been posted:


BR2049 Car landing:


I then ran it for the Pulse Server Room scene. This is the scene taking from the AVS demo disk. It's started at 0:00 with a 5 second delay to start:


I've been running the amp with the gains at the dial click between 1 and 2 o'clock. That's about where I've settled in for the time being. The BOSS-Sac has a bit more to give though if I want. I re-ran the Pulse test with the gains at 3 o'clock and got the following increase:


I can probably get a bit more out of it by turning the amp up a little more. I don't like to have them turned to max though. I'm starting to fade tonight so I'm done but I'm going to measure tomorrow with some other crossover settings too. I'm currently at 40 hz with a BW 12 db/oct filter. I think I might loose a little in those clips from it. So I'm going to experiment a little more with the slop and cut of frequency.

edit: Updated the BR chart to be linear instead of log
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_C09932590F12-1.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	81.4 KB
ID:	2559750   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_E623A6879147-1.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	2559752   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_A0D3344753DC-1.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	83.8 KB
ID:	2559754   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5ABB268451B6-1.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	80.5 KB
ID:	2559756   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_C5FC97001BE6-1.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	82.5 KB
ID:	2559882  

SBuger and Sekosche like this.

BEQ Slack group
The struggle is real for Generation Xplain Digital to the Analog and Analog to the Digital.
Klipsch RF-7III, RC-64III
SI HS-24mkIII BOSS-Sac
Sony 85X900F, Denon 8500, nVidia Shield, Apple TV

Last edited by DesertDog; 04-29-2019 at 10:39 AM.
DesertDog is online now  
post #2061 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 06:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,207
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1353 Post(s)
Liked: 3330
The VibSensor Accelerometer Test Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
I finally got a chance to run a couple tests tonight after GoT.



Thanks for these! Your readings are impressive, especially with just the BOSS! How much TR do your subs add? Also, your BR 2049 graph is in logarithmic instead of linear.

Interesting how intense your X and Y are compared to Z; my Z axis energy seems to carry the TR for me and is almost always the highest in my setup which I seem to prefer; the BOSS definitely added a ton of Z axis movement. You seem have a very even response though coupled across all planes of movement for the ultimate roller coaster ride! I’m sure seating affects movement quite a bit, so that’s one variable that’d be hard to mimic.

I’ll post some more when I have time this week with both MA’s under the MLP with the phone oriented correctly and see how that changes things and dig in to tweaking with VS more.
DesertDog and SBuger like this.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 04-29-2019 at 06:17 AM.
Sekosche is online now  
post #2062 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 9,607
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2350 Post(s)
Liked: 1979
If you're not bottoming out, a low shelf filter will give you a bit more <20Hz.
SBuger likes this.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #2063 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 09:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I bet suspended floors helps, but y’all probably have more TR regardless, with more MA’s, and BK’s, but I expect my current setup could be significantly improved with some tweaking and proper phone placement for VS readings. Interesting developments lead to further investigation.

It’s fun to know where my output stacks up and where I have to work on.
Well what I meant was, from me and Nalleh being on suspended flooring is that our axis's and maybe the over all shape look more similar than yours being on concrete. But that overall shape is still pretty darn similar to yours. I'm talking BOSS to BOSS here. The MAs and BKs, yeah another story maybe as I don't think any of us have done much messing and VSing with them, trying to integrating them all yet with the BOSS.

Yeah tweaking for optimum results as far as timing, phase etc of them all with be important to get the most out of them if one is going to use all of them. Be it BOSS + MAs, or BOSS + MAs + VNFs, or even all 4 BOSS + MAs, + BKs + VNFs.

Your TR looks pretty fantastic to me right now and is very similar to ours! You may be able to get it better with more tweaking among your MAs, BOSS and VNFs, but at least you got a great starting point already that looks great on the graphs (your axis overlay is fantastic), and sounds like it feels killer as well, which is most important!
Sekosche likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #2064 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 09:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 315 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 3530
@DesertDog - Yep, I was gonna say the same thing as LastButNotLeast said about using a low shelf to maybe lift up the low end a bit more, but probably need a few more readings of scenes that we know has a bunch of ULF in them (and/ or a White Noise 0-50hz reading).

Damn, your Pulse scene looks crazy at 20hz. I think that is one of the few movie scenes that I don't have. Will have to get it

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room on suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo UDP 203 | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Drop Screen | Epson 5030 PJ | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #2065 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nalleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked: 3038
@DesertDog how do you have your phone placed when doing the VS? You have way bigger number on the Y- and X-axis, which doesn’t make sense if you have your phone correctly oriented!

For a up and down movement the Z-axis should be dominant(blue colour curve).

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 4xSI-HT18v2 in 2xDO Sonos - 12x12" JBL GT-X1200 NF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873 - Harmony Ultimate.
Nalleh’s HT
Nalleh is online now  
post #2066 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 11:12 AM
Advanced Member
 
DesertDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 748
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Thanks for these! Your readings are impressive, especially with just the BOSS! How much TR do your subs add? Also, your BR 2049 graph is in logarithmic instead of linear.

I’ll post some more when I have time this week with both MA’s under the MLP with the phone oriented correctly and see how that changes things and dig in to tweaking with VS more.
I fixed the graph to be linear. I thought. I had them all set that way. I haven't really measured with the subs on yet. Haven't had time. I'll try to do some more tonight with them. Going by feel I think it's a minor addition. I can run it though with all on and just the subs to see all three scenarios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@DesertDog - Yep, I was gonna say the same thing as LastButNotLeast said about using a low shelf to maybe lift up the low end a bit more, but probably need a few more readings of scenes that we know has a bunch of ULF in them (and/ or a White Noise 0-50hz reading).

Damn, your Pulse scene looks crazy at 20hz. I think that is one of the few movie scenes that I don't have. Will have to get it
I can try adding the LS filter to see how it goes. The feel is pretty good now. I just don't want to go over the line from "this is awesome" to "this is too much".

How do you not have the Pulse scene??? It's right up your ally. It's in this AVS Demo disc. That's where I got it from. If you don't know it, you're going to love it. I wish the rest of the movie was good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
@DesertDog how do you have your phone placed when doing the VS? You have way bigger number on the Y- and X-axis, which doesn’t make sense if you have your phone correctly oriented!

For a up and down movement the Z-axis should be dominant(blue colour curve).
I had it at MLP towards the back of the cushion, top of the phone pointing to the TV, and with a 4lb bag of flower on top. I had DMed with @SBuger the other night to make sure I was getting the positioning and volume levels correct before posting.

It might be due to how plush my couch is. The cushion might be absorbing a bit of the Z. When I was playing around with position the other night I did take one reason with my phone on of the vertical back/arm rest pieces that are fairly solid. They have minimal padding and got the following. I think it's a bit more like what you're saying. One thing to note is that x and y are swapped for this one. To have it on the back the top had to be orthogonal to the tv due to the size.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_A703F6C2D25C-1.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	80.4 KB
ID:	2559954  

BEQ Slack group
The struggle is real for Generation Xplain Digital to the Analog and Analog to the Digital.
Klipsch RF-7III, RC-64III
SI HS-24mkIII BOSS-Sac
Sony 85X900F, Denon 8500, nVidia Shield, Apple TV
DesertDog is online now  
post #2067 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 11:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2256 Post(s)
Liked: 2281
Anyone going to show the spectrum for the source audio track(s)? Easy to extract using beqd and add your own house curve filter on top for an apples to apples comparison.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #2068 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 9,607
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2350 Post(s)
Liked: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Damn, your Pulse scene looks crazy at 20hz. I think that is one of the few movie scenes that I don't have. Will have to get it
If you don't want to or can't get one of the demo discs, here's the scene in my DropBox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zl77a7nukj...0Room.zip?dl=1
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #2069 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 12:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,770
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2256 Post(s)
Liked: 2281
@DesertDog if you want to avoid the need to weigh the device down and have an rpi handy then you can try https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ion-meter.html
DesertDog likes this.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #2070 of 2157 Old 04-29-2019, 05:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
DesertDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 748
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
@DesertDog if you want to avoid the need to weigh the device down and have an rpi handy then you can try https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ion-meter.html
Cool, I'll check it out when I can. I need to grab a new rpi for it. I gave my extra ones away awhile back for a couple friends to run PiHole.

BEQ Slack group
The struggle is real for Generation Xplain Digital to the Analog and Analog to the Digital.
Klipsch RF-7III, RC-64III
SI HS-24mkIII BOSS-Sac
Sony 85X900F, Denon 8500, nVidia Shield, Apple TV
DesertDog is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off