Need help picking subs. $3.5k budget. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Need help picking subs. $3.5k budget.

I initially had planned to run 2 x JL audio E112's but with the help of JimWIlson(Thanks!) I have narrowed it down to a few options that might be better suited for my space. I am however having a hell of a time actually pulling the trigger on something.

I have Monitor Audio Silver 8's (LCR) and gold in ceiling rears. The room is big. We determined it near 5600cu/ft. Budget 3-$3.5k give or take for the 2 subs. I could stretch it if there was something exponentially better. My one issue is I am some what space limited the max width of the subs can not exceed 18". I would say I my listening is 70/30 Music/HT.

These are the contenders:

PSA V1500(Or maybe even s3000i)
Rythmik FV15hp
HSU VTF-3 MK5
SVS PC13 Ultra

I am fairly stumped here. All seem like strong contenders. The one benefit I see to the SVS is the form factor. Being the width is only 16.5 it does give me a touch more room on each side. But am I losing performance over the larger 15" drivers?

Any input is appreciated.

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post #2 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 08:54 AM
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With 13.5" ultra driver in SVS and 1000 watts behind it, you are not loosing anything if pitched against 15" DS1510 driver of Rythmik and 600 watts of amplifier power.

Rythmik FV15HP is more efficient compared to PC13 Ultra due to larger cone area. What the later loses in size, it makes up for it with more watts in amplification.

Both these subs are more similar in performance than different. I'd say go for dual PC13 Ultras; they are more placement friendly and easy to lug around.

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post #3 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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With 13.5" ultra driver in SVS and 1000 watts behind it, you are not loosing anything if pitched against 15" DS1510 driver of Rythmik and 600 watts of amplifier power.

Rythmik FV15HP is more efficient compared to PC13 Ultra due to larger cone area. What the later loses in size, it makes up for it with more watts in amplification.

Both these subs are more similar in performance than different. I'd say go for dual PC13 Ultras; they are more placement friendly and easy to lug around.
And your opinion is that is also the better choice over the HSU and PSA? Dual PSA s3000i do intrigue me.
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 09:42 AM
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And your opinion is that is also the better choice over the HSU and PSA? Dual PSA s3000i do intrigue me.
I think in your space a pair of ported subs makes more sense. You could always try both the Ultras and the S3000s since shipping both ways is included in the price of each.

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post #5 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 09:49 AM
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I am not sure - you should check on it first: I think I recall reading that the PC13-ultra is the one SVS cylinder that is measurably different from its PB version. So confirm that before going by PB13-ultra reviews. Or ask SVS, they would tell you if it is. They would also give you internal numbers on both, if you ask.
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure - you should check on it first: I think I recall reading that the PC13-ultra is the one SVS cylinder that is measurably different from its PB version. So confirm that before going by PB13-ultra reviews. Or ask SVS, they would tell you if it is. They would also give you internal numbers on both, if you ask.
SVS said that PB vs PC were equals in terms of performance and sq when I had asked.
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I think in your space a pair of ported subs makes more sense. You could always try both the Ultras and the S3000s since shipping both ways is included in the price of each.
That is what I was leaning towards. The S3000 is the only non ported on the list. But after speaking with Tom V it sounded like the s3000 would have only positives over the v1500.
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post #7 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:10 AM
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SVS said that PB vs PC were equals in terms of performance and sq when I had asked.
On the other two PCs, the PCs and PBs are nearly identical, but on the Ultras, while they are close, there is more difference, so I just wanted to point out that it is not as apples to apples as the other PCs and PBs.

Per this post by Ed Mullen, SVS director:

As others have alluded, the PB13-Ultra is tuned a few Hz deeper than the PC-Ultra and also has more internal enclosure volume. As such, it has somewhat higher maximum output capability at the very deepest frequencies. With that said, subjectively they perform very similarly on source material as the Norway comparo pointed out.

The PCU is obviously easier to physically integrate into a smaller room - being lighter, easier to move, and having a much smaller footprint. Also, the minor output/extension deficit of the PCU tends to be offset in a smaller room, which will have more boundary reinforcement and earlier onset of room gain.
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post #8 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:13 AM
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My one issue is I am some what space limited the max width of the subs can not exceed 18".
A comment such as this always throws up a red flag for me...I assume you have already picked out where the subs are going to be placed?? This is not how you should go about it and will most times end in disappointment with your new subs.

The subs will tell you where they want to go, not the other way around.
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:15 AM
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Check out the Seaton SubMersive forum in this subform. Mark is coming out with a "1/2" SubMersive this month designed for placement and space limitations like yours. It looks like the new amps he has could run 4 "1/2" SubMversives in a slave configuration for a price within your budget. I would at least look into this option before you rule it out. You could also add an additional Master unit in the future for an option to run 8 1/2 Submersives with control over two banks.
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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A comment such as this always throws up a red flag for me...I assume you have already picked out where the subs are going to be placed?? This is not how you should go about it and will most times end in disappointment with your new subs.

The subs will tell you where they want to go, not the other way around.
I don't have any choice in the matter. I have one place they can go, and it will have to do. So it is either this, or nothing.

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Check out the Seaton SubMersive forum in this subform. Mark is coming out with a "1/2" SubMersive this month designed for placement and space limitations like yours. It looks like the new amps he has could run 4 "1/2" SubMversives in a slave configuration for a price within your budget. I would at least look into this option before you rule it out. You could also add an additional Master unit in the future for an option to run 8 1/2 Submersives with control over two banks.
I actually emailed him this morning. Thanks!
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 10:28 AM
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Good deal. I know he has a stack of orders to get out the door because the new amp just got finished, so I'd call mid week if you don't hear anything in the next day or two via e-mail. Good luck on your hunt!
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post #12 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 11:53 AM
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I don't have any choice in the matter. I have one place they can go, and it will have to do. So it is either this, or nothing.



I actually emailed him this morning. Thanks!
Make sure that whatever you buy has a liberal return policy.
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post #13 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Make sure that whatever you buy has a liberal return policy.
Will do, although as I said there's no where else I can put them. So if I'm sending them back, I'm giving up on the whole thing lol
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post #14 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 12:26 PM
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All I'm saying is that if you're going to spend this kind of cash on subs, you want them to perform in your room.

For all you know, your proposed locations could result in a large null across most of the sub's passband...not likely, but still in the realm of possibility.

I just don't want you to get stuck with $3.5K worth of subs that don't work in your room.
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post #15 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 12:30 PM
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You could model your room (i.e. REW's Room Sim option) and get a rough idea of what the subs will do in your room. Most room sims only deal with sealed rooms though, so it may only get you close.

My room is completely open on the left hand side, but I am able to trick REW's room sim by setting the absorbancy of that wall to it's highest setting (.90) and it comes pretty close.
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post #16 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AZtitan123 View Post
Will do, although as I said there's no where else I can put them. So if I'm sending them back, I'm giving up on the whole thing lol

Hi,

FWIW, I have three SVS Ultra's in a room just a bit larger than yours. Two of them are PC's and one is a PB, and I agree that subjectively there is no difference in performance. Also, for what it's worth, I don't know that Ultra's get quite enough credit for what smooth performers they are. Although I upgraded to Ultra's primarily for increased power and low frequency extension, I have been very impressed with how seamlessly they have integrated with my speakers, and with how little attention they attract to themselves. That last feature might be particularly important to you since you identified your audio use as being 70% music. The 45-day free trial will work in your favor here. I would definitely recommend ported in a room your size.

Regards,
Mike
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post #17 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

FWIW, I have three SVS Ultra's in a room just a bit larger than yours. Two of them are PC's and one is a PB, and I agree that subjectively there is no difference in performance. Also, for what it's worth, I don't know that Ultra's get quite enough credit for what smooth performers they are. Although I upgraded to Ultra's primarily for increased power and low frequency extension, I have been very impressed with how seamlessly they have integrated with my speakers, and with how little attention they attract to themselves. That last feature might be particularly important to you since you identified your audio use as being 70% music. The 45-day free trial will work in your favor here. I would definitely recommend ported in a room your size.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks! This is a very tough choice..lol
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post #18 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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You could model your room (i.e. REW's Room Sim option) and get a rough idea of what the subs will do in your room. Most room sims only deal with sealed rooms though, so it may only get you close.

My room is completely open on the left hand side, but I am able to trick REW's room sim by setting the absorbancy of that wall to it's highest setting (.90) and it comes pretty close.
Thanks I downloaded it and will play around with it. Although I am not sure I will quite be able to interpret the data..lol


I think the S3000 is out. It is too big.

I am down to:
PSA V1500's
Rythmik FV15HP
Hsu Vtf-3

Maybe I should just flip a coin twice.
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post #19 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 05:13 PM
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Thanks I downloaded it and will play around with it. Although I am not sure I will quite be able to interpret the data..lol


I think the S3000 is out. It is too big.

I am down to:
PSA V1500's
Rythmik FV15HP
Hsu Vtf-3

Maybe I should just flip a coin twice.

PSA V1500 would be risk free to try.
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post #20 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AZtitan123 View Post
Thanks I downloaded it and will play around with it. Although I am not sure I will quite be able to interpret the data..lol


I think the S3000 is out. It is too big.

I am down to:
PSA V1500's
Rythmik FV15HP
Hsu Vtf-3

Maybe I should just flip a coin twice.
What? No love for the SVS cylinder.

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post #21 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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PSA V1500 would be risk free to try.
True that!
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What? No love for the SVS cylinder.
Honestly, I just built a box(out of cardboard) about the size of the V1500 and FV15hp and I think it might just be too big for me. The SVS Cyl might be my best option. Could very well order the SVS and V1500 tomorrow and send back which one doesn't "do it" for me. I am thinking the svs will beat it in aesthetics but will lose in performance. However if I have to resort to sealed subs to reduce footprint, to something like s1500 the SVS might be a strong contender.

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post #22 of 22 Old 11-02-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AZtitan123 View Post

Honestly, I just built a box about the size of the V1500 and FV15hp and I think it might just be too big for me. The SVS Cyl might be my best option. Could very well order the SVS and V1500 tomorrow and send back which one doesn't "do it" for me. I am thinking the svs will beat it in aesthetics but will lose in performance. However if I have to resort to sealed subs to reduce footprint, to something like s1500 the SVS might be a strong contender.
I am pretty sure that you can put the PC13-ultra on its side, and that might give you more placement option since you could put it behind things or along walls etc like that (confirm with SVS if you would like to do that.)
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