ready to order 2 s1500's from psa. any reason not to? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 47 Old 12-01-2015, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
With our sealed products it just comes down to headroom. Dual S1500s will sound much like dual T-18ht subs for example----up until you approach the limits of the S1500s. We had someone upgrade from XS15se to T-18s mention the same in our thread a while back. Really, for the room size, dual S1500s should be plenty and you really don't need to consider anything larger than dual S3000i imo. Dual S3600i would be a bit overkill. Which isn't the worst thing in the world with regards to system headroom...but just be sure you realize how large the enclosures are as they would certainly dominate the decor in a smaller room like this.

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That would have been me.

I've had XS15s (duals, then quads), dual T-18s and just recently added a S3000 as a "filler" sub. I can attest that the sound quality of all of them are very close to each other as long as you are under the limits.

I do love having pretty much unlimited headroom now though...I can run the subs as hot as I want (currently +14db from where Audyssey set them, DynEQ off) and not worry about a thing...well, except the drywall.


I will second the vote for dual S3000 in that small of a room. You will get some sick extension...into the single digits for sure.
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post #32 of 47 Old 12-01-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
currently +14db from where Audyssey set them, DynEQ off
Wow. "Some like it hot" is an understatement.
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post #33 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I just ordered the pair of s1500's. I avoided the slippery slope to a pair of s3600i's.

I can't wait try them out and see what that single digit room extension feels like.

Do I need to be concerned with the input power? I have the tv/tuner/Xbox on a dedicated 20amp outlet and the rest of the room on a 15amp circuit, this has a led lamp and a pair of s1500's on it. I am guessing a 725watt rms amp draws more than 725watts when it is maxed but draws a lot less 99% of the time?
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post #34 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 01:03 PM
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All three of my subs are on the same 15amp circuit as the rest of my equipment and lights and I have never had an issue....well, I can make my lights dim, but they've never went out.
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post #35 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
All three of my subs are on the same 15amp circuit as the rest of my equipment and lights and I have never had an issue....well, I can make my lights dim, but they've never went out.

You're taking it too easy on them Alan. A 15 amp cicuit shouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell against your 3 subs AND all of the other equipment!
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post #36 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
You're taking it too easy on them Alan. A 15 amp cicuit shouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell against your 3 subs AND all of the other equipment!
0MV with subs running 12-14db hot....I am not taking it easy.

Of course, forays into 0MV territory are quite short lived and for demo/testing purposes only...I normally listen to movies from -15MV to -12MV.
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post #37 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
0MV with subs running 12-14db hot....I am not taking it easy.

Of course, forays into 0MV territory are quite short lived and for demo/testing purposes only...I normally listen to movies from -15MV to -12MV.

I can actually visualize you with the lights dimming, or even flickering, and saying "Well heck, I still have some headroom left."

I will post this here to save Feri some discomfort, but I decided to try what you and Gary have been doing lately, and I like it. I am boosting my subs about 12db post-calibration, with about +3 bass for my fronts, and no DEQ, at about -16 MV. It's working very well. No surround boost, improved clarity, and better continuity, as well. I think the bass sounds smoother and more natural. So, thanks!
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post #38 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
I just ordered the pair of s1500's. I avoided the slippery slope to a pair of s3600i's.

I can't wait try them out and see what that single digit room extension feels like.

Do I need to be concerned with the input power? I have the tv/tuner/Xbox on a dedicated 20amp outlet and the rest of the room on a 15amp circuit, this has a led lamp and a pair of s1500's on it. I am guessing a 725watt rms amp draws more than 725watts when it is maxed but draws a lot less 99% of the time?
There's a few factors to remember when considering the power requirements like this.

1)DUAL subs can actually require less AC power in many instances. If you are adding 6dB of system headroom going from one sub to two you'll need half the total AC power to reach a given SPL. Example---one sub needs 300 watts from the wall to reach 100dB at 20hz for you. Adding a second means each sub will now need 75 watts or 150 watts total.

2)Audio amplifiers have a varying degree of capacitance or energy storage. This allows them to produce high levels of output/voltage with less AC demand from the wall during peaks and transients.

3)A standard home breaker will pass 200-400% of its rated value for 5-10 seconds. So a 15amp breaker will pass 30-60amps no problem at all.. (see attached).

4)Movies and music is transient in nature---meaning the dynamic peaks will last fractions of a second. This is partially why the industry standard subwoofer testing protocol CEA-2010 uses short term bursts for output performance.



Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #39 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
There's a few factors to remember when considering the power requirements like this.

1)DUAL subs can actually require less AC power in many instances. If you are adding 6dB of system headroom going from one sub to two you'll need half the total AC power to reach a given SPL. Example---one sub needs 300 watts from the wall to reach 100dB at 20hz for you. Adding a second means each sub will now need 75 watts or 150 watts total.

2)Audio amplifiers have a varying degree of capacitance or energy storage. This allows them to produce high levels of output/voltage with less AC demand from the wall during peaks and transients.

3)A standard home breaker will pass 200-400% of its rated value for 5-10 seconds. So a 15amp breaker will pass 30-60amps no problem at all.. (see attached).

4)Movies and music is transient in nature---meaning the dynamic peaks will last fractions of a second. This is partially why the industry standard subwoofer testing protocol CEA-2010 uses short term bursts for output performance.



Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
This type of excellent response and the ease of getting ahold of you are a big reason I ordered from you. Thanks.

I see the subs are on a truck and headed my way. :-)
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80" vizio M801D-A3
denon x4100 in a 14x13x9 dedicated room.
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post #40 of 47 Old 12-02-2015, 04:57 PM
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I've got a SubMersive Master/Slave combo, my Denon4311, the tv, and all the gear hooked up to one 20-amp circuit a have never tripped it, although I am a bit surprised I haven't.
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post #41 of 47 Old 12-03-2015, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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IF this helps the op! I had the same subs XS-15se's in a open family room that its total volume is over 6000 cubic feet. The subs were about 10 feet from MLP. They had lots of bass and vibrated some things. Here is a graph using REW with the MLP 10 feet from the subs in my open room. Bottom two lines are each sub. The top 2 are both subs together. (One has Audussey EQ on).
NOTE: This is a good example of how 2 subs will smooth out the FR.


In your small room, those S1500's should work very well.
I would talk to Tom. And if you dont like the results ( which I think you will ), then you can always return them.
That chart is great. It really shows how dual subs smooth things out. Looks like the auddusey doesn't do much. Is that the xt32 with the multi sub eq?

klipsch rf82's, rc62, rb51, r-112sw sub
80" vizio M801D-A3
denon x4100 in a 14x13x9 dedicated room.
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post #42 of 47 Old 12-03-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
I've got a SubMersive Master/Slave combo, my Denon4311, the tv, and all the gear hooked up to one 20-amp circuit a have never tripped it, although I am a bit surprised I haven't.
A big part of that is the efficiency of the amplifier. The torpedo amps from Speaker Power are the real deal. And having Mark Seaton involved in the system design never hurts either..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #43 of 47 Old 12-03-2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
And having Mark Seaton involved in the system design never hurts either..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Yes. I am grateful for having guys like you and Mark in the industry. Consumers can get a great design/well executed sub at a reasonable price without having to pay for Harmon or JL's overhead and marketing machine. And I like that guys like you and Mark show each other respect despite being competitors (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). So, thanks for that as well.
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post #44 of 47 Old 12-04-2015, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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woohoo. I got my new s1500's. They were at my door in 48 hours!

I am glad I didn't get the s3000i's. These are small and blend right into my room.

right now I do not have my denon avr so I had to use a splitter to feed them both. I did a quick measurement below. the greens are each sub and the red is with them both together. I know very little about rew and have not calibrated the spl on my mic yet so I am sure those levels are not accurate(I was not playing them very loud) but it does give a nice idea of what 2 vs one sub can do. I also did one sweep with the door open and it was all over the place.

this could be in my head but it seems like the whole room sounds better. the dialog seems more clear and I can hear the direction of the sounds better. The bass is pretty transparent up until there is a scene that calls for a lot of base and then there is a healthy rumble and the whole room shakes. :-) I have a number of rattles that need addressed.

my next plans are to learn how to properly use rew and work on speaker placement and room treatments.
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Last edited by parish8; 12-04-2015 at 09:18 PM.
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post #45 of 47 Old 12-05-2015, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
woohoo. I got my new s1500's. They were at my door in 48 hours!

I am glad I didn't get the s3000i's. These are small and blend right into my room.

right now I do not have my denon avr so I had to use a splitter to feed them both. I did a quick measurement below. the greens are each sub and the red is with them both together. I know very little about rew and have not calibrated the spl on my mic yet so I am sure those levels are not accurate(I was not playing them very loud) but it does give a nice idea of what 2 vs one sub can do. I also did one sweep with the door open and it was all over the place.

this could be in my head but it seems like the whole room sounds better. the dialog seems more clear and I can hear the direction of the sounds better. The bass is pretty transparent up until there is a scene that calls for a lot of base and then there is a healthy rumble and the whole room shakes. :-) I have a number of rattles that need addressed.

my next plans are to learn how to properly use rew and work on speaker placement and room treatments.
Hello,

Hope you are well.

Glad you are happy with your purchase. That graph is really good looking with the duals. It also shows how much you are benefitting having two subs, accentuating where one is filling in a giant dip from the other in frequency response.

Later,

Tony

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post #46 of 47 Old 12-05-2015, 08:20 PM
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WOW! You aren't -3dB until under 4hz! That is outstanding!!

And that's with no EQ....wow.
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post #47 of 47 Old 12-05-2015, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW! You aren't -3dB until under 4hz! That is outstanding!!

And that's with no EQ....wow.
There might be some eq going on there. I have a lot to figure out still but I am waiting till I have my permanent avr.

I just watched the crash scene from flight of the phoenix. That was amazing.
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