V1800 or dual PB2000? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 06:20 AM
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I'm sure he knew I was joking about the 3 subs.....he could always put one in another room.

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post #32 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I should be outside working in the yard since we finally have some sun, BUT here I am playing upstairs.

The wife approves the layout so this is it for now. I need to get some theater seats later this year and when my little girl gets older and wants to invite friends maybe I'll put that couch on a riser (good idea ereed) and take down the second fan.

I'm a little uncomfortable sitting this close but I think I will adjust. I can possibly shift everything back another foot. The main speakers are 9' apart (18" from side/rear wall) and 10' from my ears when reclined.

Duals will arrive Tuedsay and CMT340's should ship Monday or Tuesday. The Fluance speakers are great for movies but too bright for music - to my ears.




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post #33 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Don't use 3 subs. 3 isn't bad, but a 3rd sub with a different tuning point will do more harm than good.
Earl Geddes would beg to differ...
https://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/

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post #34 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltb View Post
I'm a little uncomfortable sitting this close but I think I will adjust. I can possibly shift everything back another foot. The main speakers are 9' apart (18" from side/rear wall) and 10' from my ears when reclined.
You'll likely get used to it. I sit about 7.5ft away from my 92 inch screen. Wouldn't have it any other way.
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post #35 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 11:39 AM
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That room is going to kick ass when you are done.
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post #36 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltb View Post
I should be outside working in the yard since we finally have some sun, BUT here I am playing upstairs.

The wife approves the layout so this is it for now. I need to get some theater seats later this year and when my little girl gets older and wants to invite friends maybe I'll put that couch on a riser (good idea ereed) and take down the second fan.

I'm a little uncomfortable sitting this close but I think I will adjust. I can possibly shift everything back another foot. The main speakers are 9' apart (18" from side/rear wall) and 10' from my ears when reclined.

Duals will arrive Tuedsay and CMT340's should ship Monday or Tuesday. The Fluance speakers are great for movies but too bright for music - to my ears.

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Another advice to try. I would try moving the speakers a little closer so avoid being too close to side walls....maybe move the left speaker few inches next to the sub and then more the right speaker the same. You can move back another foot if you think it doesn't sound right. I would also move back a little since your surrounds are too far back for 5.1. I sit 13 feet away from my speakers and they are 9 feet apart. Try sitting 2 to 3 feet further than the width of your speakers and see if it makes a difference. By the way does it sound less harsh with grills on? Looks like this speaker is definitely not for you sound wise.

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post #37 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheare View Post
You'll likely get used to it. I sit about 7.5ft away from my 92 inch screen. Wouldn't have it any other way.
He is referring to being too close to his speakers, not his tv.

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post #38 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Another advice to try. I would try moving the speakers a little closer so avoid being too close to side walls....maybe move the left speaker few inches next to the sub and then more the right speaker the same. You can move back another foot if you think it doesn't sound right. I would also move back a little since your surrounds are too far back for 5.1. I sit 13 feet away from my speakers and they are 9 feet apart. Try sitting 2 to 3 feet further than the width of your speakers and see if it makes a difference. By the way does it sound less harsh with grills on? Looks like this speaker is definitely not for you sound wise.

Ignore those surrounds for now. I'm going to wait and see what speaker stays before I put more holes in the wall that I have to fix

Speakers sound the same to me with grills. I ended up moving the seating back 6" and I like it, a lot. Sitting this close to my 65" kills my desire for a larger screen which is helpful. I'll tidy up the front stage when the duals arrive. Even with 2.1 I feel immersed into the music now which is nothing I've ever experienced. I keep getting up to ensure the surrounds aren't playing and they aren't..haha
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post #39 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Earl Geddes would beg to differ...
https://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/
What? I guess you misunderstood what I said.

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post #40 of 82 Old 01-30-2016, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltb View Post
Ignore those surrounds for now. I'm going to wait and see what speaker stays before I put more holes in the wall that I have to fix

Speakers sound the same to me with grills. I ended up moving the seating back 6" and I like it, a lot. Sitting this close to my 65" kills my desire for a larger screen which is helpful. I'll tidy up the front stage when the duals arrive. Even with 2.1 I feel immersed into the music now which is nothing I've ever experienced. I keep getting up to ensure the surrounds aren't playing and they aren't..haha
Yes, you don't want time fixing holes when you can be playing with speaker placement. Glad moving seating back helped, all that you are doing is playing with imaging and sound stage. I also have 3.1 setup and people that watch movies at my house think I have surrounds. lol A very good 3.1 setup with great speaker placement will always sound better than an "ok" 5.1 setup.

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post #41 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
What? I guess you misunderstood what I said.
Didn't you say, "Don't use 3 subs. 3 isn't bad, but a 3rd sub with a different tuning point will do more harm than good."? If so, the Geddes technique disagrees with both points:
1. Don't use 3 subs, and
2. A 3rd sub with a different tune point will do more harm than good.

The Geddes technique uses 3 subs. It doesn't matter whether they are identical. You take the primary sub and place it in a corner to excite as many modes as possible. Then you place the other 2 "smoothing" subs around the room to help reduce any nulls in the initial response of the corner sub. With the Geddes technique you:
1. Use 3 subs, and
2. You use the extra subs to do more good than harm.

In my own system, I use a modification of the Geddes technique. I use 3 identical subs. I don't place any subs in a corner. I place them randomly around the room until I get placements that yield no nulls in the combined response. Then I use Audyssey to knock down the remaining peaks to yield an overall smooth FR curve:


(That ^ is just the subs, (no speakers), with an 80 Hz LPF applied. It is a spatially averaged response over the 3 primary seats in my theater.)

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post #42 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Didn't you say, "Don't use 3 subs. 3 isn't bad, but a 3rd sub with a different tuning point will do more harm than good."? If so, the Geddes technique disagrees with both points:
1. Don't use 3 subs, and
2. A 3rd sub with a different tune point will do more harm than good.

The Geddes technique uses 3 subs. It doesn't matter whether they are identical. You take the primary sub and place it in a corner to excite as many modes as possible. Then you place the other 2 "smoothing" subs around the room to help reduce any nulls in the initial response of the corner sub. With the Geddes technique you:
1. Use 3 subs, and
2. You use the extra subs to do more good than harm.

In my own system, I use a modification of the Geddes technique. I use 3 identical subs. I don't place any subs in a corner. I place them randomly around the room until I get placements that yield no nulls in the combined response. Then I use Audyssey to knock down the remaining peaks to yield an overall smooth FR curve:

(That ^ is just the subs, (no speakers), with an 80 Hz LPF applied. It is a spatially averaged response over the 3 primary seats in my theater.)

Craig
Wow. You're taking this to heart and completely missing my point.

I said what I said based on what gear, equipment, and budget the OP had.

Not everyone has the software and experience needed to tune different ported subs in the same room. Even out of the members here, the percentage of those who can successfully integrate different tuned ported subs is small. Which is why I advised keeping all subs the same.
Having all identical subs is so simple to integrate and most basic EQ software found in AVRs and Pre/Pros can do it with fine results.

I don't mean having 3 subs is bad. I'm a huge fan of having multiple subs. Someone suggested keeping the V1800 and keeping the Dual PB-2000s. That makes 3 subs, with two different tuning points. His Auto EQ will yield better results thought out the FR with subs that are the same make and model. So yes, if he has the budget for 3 subs or more, then get them. But at this point, he should have them be identical.

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post #43 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
Wow. You're taking this to heart and completely missing my point.
And you're missing mine. The OP could clearly use the V1800 as the primary sub and the PB2000's as the "smoothing" subs ala Geddes... and not do "more harm than good."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I said what I said based on what gear, equipment, and budget the OP had.

Not everyone has the software and experience needed to tune different ported subs in the same room. Even out of the members here, the percentage of those who can successfully integrate different tuned ported subs is small. Which is why I advised keeping all subs the same.
Having all identical subs is so simple to integrate and most basic EQ software found in AVRs and Pre/Pros can do it with fine results.

I don't mean having 3 subs is bad. I'm a huge fan of having multiple subs. Someone suggested keeping the V1800 and keeping the Dual PB-2000s. That makes 3 subs, with two different tuning points. His Auto EQ will yield better results thought out the FR with subs that are the same make and model. So yes, if he has the budget for 3 subs or more, then get them. But at this point, he should have them be identical.
I too am a proponent of multiple identical subs, as I describe in my own system. However, that doesn't preclude someone using dissimilar subs and achieving excellent results. It can certainly be done, and Earl Geddes technique is a way to do it. Of course, it requires the ability to measure the system response. Anyone making the investment in, and attempting to optimize multiple subwoofers, owes it to themselves to learn how to take in-room measurements. Just plopping a few subs down in a room and expecting an RC system to "fix" the resulting response is not a foolproof way to optimize the system. Far too often we see people buying multiple subs and then just placing them on either side of the TV. That is NOT how one optimizes multiple subwoofers. All that will do is increase system output/headroom with ZERO benefit to the in-room FR. To optimize multiple subs, one needs to experiment with different placements. Being able to see the effect of different placements on the FR is only possible with in-room measurements.

REW is free: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ and a decent mic is less than $100: http://www.amazon.com/miniDSP-UMIK-1...minidsp+umik-1 The OP can go a lot further towards optimizing whatever subwoofer system he ends up with by learning how to measure his in-room response than by just throwing more subwoofers at it.

Even if the OP just ends up with the PB2000's, or just the V1800, having the ability to measure the in-room response will be beneficial.

Craig

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post #44 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
And you're missing mine. The OP could clearly use the V1800 as the primary sub and the PB2000's as the "smoothing" subs ala Geddes... and not do "more harm than good."


I too am a proponent of multiple identical subs, as I describe in my own system. However, that doesn't preclude someone using dissimilar subs and achieving excellent results. It can certainly be done, and Earl Geddes technique is a way to do it. Of course, it requires the ability to measure the system response. Anyone making the investment in, and attempting to optimize multiple subwoofers, owes it to themselves to learn how to take in-room measurements. Just plopping a few subs down in a room and expecting an RC system to "fix" the resulting response is not a foolproof way to optimize the system. Far too often we see people buying multiple subs and then just placing them on either side of the TV. That is NOT how one optimizes multiple subwoofers. All that will do is increase system output/headroom with ZERO benefit to the in-room FR. To optimize multiple subs, one needs to experiment with different placements. Being able to see the effect of different placements on the FR is only possible with in-room measurements.

REW is free: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ and a decent mic is less than $100: http://www.amazon.com/miniDSP-UMIK-1...minidsp+umik-1 The OP can go a lot further towards optimizing whatever subwoofer system he ends up with by learning how to measure his in-room response than by just throwing more subwoofers at it.

Even if the OP just ends up with the PB2000's, or just the V1800, having the ability to measure the in-room response will be beneficial.

Craig
I'm not missing your point at all. Can two different ported subs be integrated into the same system? Yes. Have I denied that? No. I giving the OP a logical and sensible approach.

Not everyone has the ability, or budget to utilize EQ software such as REW. I gave the best alternative method, which still provides some of the best over-all results, and advised keeping all subs identical.
You can sub crawl to find great spots for subs to be placed, and run the AutoEQ. While REW is free, equipment needed isn't. And more often than not, a first time user will more than likely net worse results than modern AutoEQ software. I'm not saying that the OP should avoid REW, but until he has the time, effort, and budget to use it, I would keep things simple by using identical subs. You can still use REW to EQ identical subs... and that's good practice instead of jumping into something as difficult as EQing two very different ported subs. Why make it difficult and get two different tuned subs from different makes and models? I don't see the point.

Saying that having both subs upfront will provide zero benefits to the FR is an excessive statement and is proven wrong.
I agree that everyone should experiment with placing there subs.

@Pain Infliction , can you comment on the difficulty when EQing two different ported subs vs. two subs that are identical?

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post #45 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 10:29 AM
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In this case the OP is keeping just the single V1800 or dual PB2000 based on his budget and does not want to keep all 3. He is planning on demoing both and see which one he prefers in his room.

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post #46 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I'm not missing your point at all. Can two different ported subs be integrated into the same system? Yes. Have I denied that? No. I giving the OP a logical and sensible approach.

Not everyone has the ability, or budget to utilize EQ software such as REW. I gave the best alternative method, which still provides some of the best over-all results, and advised keeping all subs identical.
You can sub crawl to find great spots for subs to be placed, and run the AutoEQ. While REW is free, equipment needed isn't. And more often than not, a first time user will more than likely net worse results than modern AutoEQ software. I'm not saying that the OP should avoid REW, but until he has the time, effort, and budget to use it, I would keep things simple by using identical subs. You can still use REW to EQ identical subs... and that's good practice instead of jumping into something as difficult as EQing two very different ported subs. Why make it difficult and get two different tuned subs from different makes and models? I don't see the point.

Saying that having both subs upfront will provide zero benefits to the FR is an excessive statement and is proven wrong.
I agree that everyone should experiment with placing there subs.

@Pain Infliction , can you comment on the difficulty when EQing two different ported subs vs. two subs that are identical?
I don't need anyone to explain the difficulties of setting up multiple dissimilar subs. I, myself, have posted many times on the benefits of using multiple identical subs, especially on the benefits of gain-matching identical subs. I've also posted many times on the difficulties of integrating dissimilar subs, whether they be sealed or ported, as well as the difficulties of mixing sealed and ported subs. I agree that it is more problematic to mix and integrate dissimilar subs. That doesn't mean it can't be done. The Geddes technique is probably the best technique to attempt to do so. That's all I'm saying.

Your advice that mixing subs with different tune points will result in "more harm than good" is generally true if one is using the traditional level-matching techniques with little or no attention paid to placement. However, the Geddes technique uses placement and level settings to optimize multiple subs while it minimizes the issues of dissimilar subs. That's all I was pointing out. There IS a way to do it, which you seemed to not recognize.

Your assumption that the OP has neither the financial resources or the interest or ability to invest in measuring capability is unfortunate. I would expect that anyone who cares enough about their bass to invest in multiple subs would also have the inclination to learn how to optimize them.

If you want to read about why it is less useful to place subs in the front of the room on either side of the display, Google search for "mutual coupling of subwoofers." Subwoofers that are within a 1/4 wavelength of each other will "mutually couple" and propagate as if they were one subwoofer. IOW, there will be little if any beneficial effect on the in-room FR with that type of placement. You need physical separation of the subs in order for them to drive the room with different transfer functions.

Craig

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post #47 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input guys. Right or wrong, what I'm looking for is what sounds best, to me, out of the box - whether it be the V1800 or two PB-2000's. I know there are a few other choices that some people may have preferred, but from what I read, these offerings should offer a great sampling of today's technology.

All of this gear is new, with the exception of the TV and stand, so I'm doing my best to assemble a system that will provide years of enjoyment.

I've been in the I/S industry for twenty years now - an analytical person and I can see myself investing in whatever is necessary to study my room acoustics and make any improvements when I get bored and I don't have any other projects going on When I was single, I admit I spent a lot of time playing with electronics and treated my room with ATS gear back in the day. Times have changed to say the least!

This forum has proven to be invaluable to me over the years. Being able to converse with enthusiasts/experts, etc... such as yourselves is of great value to me and I appreciate it.


Now, off to go play with my real hobby - my 700rwhp station wagon
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post #48 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
I don't need anyone to explain the difficulties of setting up multiple dissimilar subs. I, myself, have posted many times on the benefits of using multiple identical subs, especially on the benefits of gain-matching identical subs. I've also posted many times on the difficulties of integrating dissimilar subs, whether they be sealed or ported, as well as the difficulties of mixing sealed and ported subs. I agree that it is more problematic to mix and integrate dissimilar subs. That doesn't mean it can't be done. The Geddes technique is probably the best technique to attempt to do so. That's all I'm saying.

Your advice that mixing subs with different tune points will result in "more harm than good" is generally true if one is using the traditional level-matching techniques with little or no attention paid to placement. However, the Geddes technique uses placement and level settings to optimize multiple subs while it minimizes the issues of dissimilar subs. That's all I was pointing out. There IS a way to do it, which you seemed to not recognize.

Your assumption that the OP has neither the financial resources or the interest or ability to invest in measuring capability is unfortunate. *I would expect that anyone who cares enough about their bass to invest in multiple subs would also have the inclination to learn how to optimize them.

If you want to read about why it is less useful to place subs in the front of the room on either side of the display, Google search for "mutual coupling of subwoofers." Subwoofers that are within a 1/4 wavelength of each other will "mutually couple" and propagate as if they were one subwoofer. IOW, there will be little if any beneficial effect on the in-room FR with that type of placement. You need physical separation of the subs in order for them to drive the room with different transfer functions.

Craig
And neither do I.

Thanks for acknowledging that I have been correct in everything I've stated. So I don't see why this debate is evening happening.

I never assumed that the OP didn't have the budget or ability, I said when he has the time and budget. That's two variables.
I never said there wasn't a way to integrate two different ported subs, I said it was just difficult to do, right?
Please stop twisting my words and getting them all jumbled up as you're typing. I mean, this is all in text, so....

*I suggested multiple subs of the same make and model, right? I also suggested to avoid multiple subs with different tuning points because they are harder to integrate, right? I suggested a sub-crawl to find better placement spots, right?

I don't understand what you are trying to debate on. You're so dense on the fact that I suggested avoiding subs with different tuning points for the sake of the difficult EQ, that you're failing to see and acknowledge everything else I'm saying. So stop derailing this thread about Earl Geddes showing how to EQ different tuned subs, which literally has almost nothing to do with the OP or anything that I've said since the OP doesn't seem to be keeping 3 subs, it's either two PB-2000s or 1 V1800.

You also might want to rethink your last paragraph. OP mentioned localization issues (if you even read that). A 60hz freq. has a wavelength of about what? What's ¼ of that? What's the distance between the two subs across the front stage?

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post #49 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 12:40 PM
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I'm looking forward to Waltb's impressions... While my room and system are substantially different, I too find myself eyeing a V1800 vs. a pair of PC-2000s due to their similar prices.


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post #50 of 82 Old 01-31-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Waltb View Post
Thanks for all the input guys. Right or wrong, what I'm looking for is what sounds best, to me, out of the box - whether it be the V1800 or two PB-2000's. I know there are a few other choices that some people may have preferred, but from what I read, these offerings should offer a great sampling of today's technology.

All of this gear is new, with the exception of the TV and stand, so I'm doing my best to assemble a system that will provide years of enjoyment.

I've been in the I/S industry for twenty years now - an analytical person and I can see myself investing in whatever is necessary to study my room acoustics and make any improvements when I get bored and I don't have any other projects going on When I was single, I admit I spent a lot of time playing with electronics and treated my room with ATS gear back in the day. Times have changed to say the least!

This forum has proven to be invaluable to me over the years. Being able to converse with enthusiasts/experts, etc... such as yourselves is of great value to me and I appreciate it.
When you get the dual PB2000's, I'm sure you'll be tempted to just place them up front, on either side of the TV, or in the front corners. These placements are unlikely to provide the optimal smoothing of the FR across more seats. Consider that if you place one on either side of the TV stand, they'll probably be less than 5' apart. A 55 Hz wavelength is 20.55'. 1/4 wavelength of that is 5.12'. Therefore, all frequencies below 55 Hz will mutually couple and propagate as one wave. IOW, you'll effectively have just one subwoofer below about 55 Hz. If you place them symmetrically in the front corners, they'll both be exciting the same room modes, especially the length modes relating to the front/rear dimension. Neither of those is what you want with multiple subwoofers.

One sub in front and one in the rear is generally a preferred arrangement. 2 subs midwall would also be a beneficial alignment. Harman has done this research:
http://www.harman.com/sites/default/...s/multsubs.pdf

Your room looks to be a symmetrical room. Therefore the Harman recommendations could work for you.

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One subwoofer at each wall midpoint is the best in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min but does not support low frequencies particularly well. Two subwoofers, at opposing wall midpoints, performs very nearly as well as four at the midpoints and gives a much better LF factor. One subwoofer in each corner also has good low frequency support, but does not perform quite as well as one subwoofer at each wall midpoint, in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min. If cost and aesthetics are considered, subwoofers at 2 wall midpoints is preferred.
Bottom line, as you evaluate the dual subs against the single sub, give the duals the best opportunity to demonstrate the benefits of dual subs. Move them around the room to find the best placements for consistent and even transfer of the bass soundwaves to the listening positions. A single sub, no matter how good it is, only provides a single transfer function to the seats. Duals give the opportunity for 2 transfer functions to the seats. If they are sufficiently different, they have the potential to offset each others problem frequencies, and provide more consistent and even coverage to more seats. Placing them close together in the same end of the room likely won't achieve those goals.

Good luck and have fun.

Craig


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To make my point graphically, let me show you some FR graphs. The first is just one sub placed between the CC and the R speaker:



This next graph was taken 6 months earlier when I first received my 3 subs. I placed all 3 in the front of the room with one sub underneath each of the front 3 speakers:



Note that below the crossover of 80 Hz, 3 subs in the front of the room measures almost exactly the same as one subwoofer in the front of the room. What is happening is that all 3 subs are mutually coupling through the subwoofer frequencies and propagating as a single sub. The FR is virtually unaffected.

I then moved them around the room in a modified application of the Earl Geddes technique, and eventually got this FR:



Note that the huge null from about 50 to 70 Hz is GREATLY reduced. This improved FR allowed Audyssey to produce this graph:



The difference in sound quality between the first graph and the last graph is astonishing.

As I said before, I suggest you experiment with placement of the dual subs so you can better optimize their benefits. More importantly, I suggest you consider getting some measurement gear so you can "see" what is going on in your room. Without it, you're running blind and that's not much better than guessing.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
@Pain Infliction , can you comment on the difficulty when EQing two different ported subs vs. two subs that are identical?
I didn't find it difficult. I have 2 Flex 12's under my bookshelves then my SB13U behind my seat. Tacticle sensation is rediculous. All of them are crossed over at 200hz.

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post #53 of 82 Old 02-02-2016, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Received the PB2000's today. First impression was I prefer the finish and I like the metal grills better than the PSA.

I didn't have a lot of time tonight so I placed them on the front even though I know that's not optimal. I was really curious how they would sound in the same spot as the PSA. I ran Audyssey again, crossed at 80 and set gain at 50%.

I watched the first few minutes of Transformers Age of Extinction and "Darla". I felt there was an increase in output and most importantly, no localization or null spots in my seating area.

With the PSA, the seat in front of the sub lacked bass, but middle and other side were fine. I walked my room and was completely satisfied.

I don't ever want to pack up another one of these subs! I've had a few back surgeries and that wasn't fun.

I do plan on moving the subs to the middle of the room. This will really narrow the walkway so I need to see what I can do to prevent my 2 year old from slamming into it with her toys.




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post #54 of 82 Old 02-03-2016, 07:41 AM
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Nice Waltb! Those svs pb2000 looks better in your room! Not only because of 2 subs but its smaller and looks more proportional as well (WAF). Glad you are liking the dual svs. You could also keep one svs at the tv and move one svs to the side wall to play around with it. If you really want the best out of those svs subs you should go to the svs sub thread and those users will help you get the best out of your settings (those gain, frequency knobs and such on back of the subs). Keep us updated and how about pics without the grill and the amp! Now you have your localization issues fixed and all....but tell us more about how it sounds musically with movies and music and the slam and punch comparing both setups.

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Also could you tell us how ONE svs pb2000 sounds in your room? Many people can't afford 2 subs so it would be nice for a review of one sub like you did with your PSA and compare as well. Again I'm excited for you and enjoy reading your recent reviews!

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post #56 of 82 Old 02-03-2016, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I should have thought to do a side by side comparison. I would have only been able to offer an SPL measurement and just my general opinion.

I also boxed up the Fluance speakers last night so I'll be without speakers for a couple weeks.

I do agree WAF was much better even though she said they were still larger than she expected.

I have many placement options to try out when my new speakers arrive.

After spending more time on this forum I upgraded my order to Sierra-2's and the 200 as surrounds. Just two channel up front until next month when I'll order another for center duty and a new TV stand that is more fitting.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltb View Post
I should have thought to do a side by side comparison. I would have only been able to offer an SPL measurement and just my general opinion.

I also boxed up the Fluance speakers last night so I'll be without speakers for a couple weeks.

I do agree WAF was much better even though she said they were still larger than she expected.

I have many placement options to try out when my new speakers arrive.

After spending more time on this forum I upgraded my order to Sierra-2's and the 200 as surrounds. Just two channel up front until next month when I'll order another for center duty and a new TV stand that is more fitting.


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Wow! Can't wait to hear your opinions on the sierra 2 as well. I'm surprised you didn't go with floorstanders because of your child crawling in the room. If you hadn't already ordered them I was gonna recommend you to try wharfedale diamond 230 or 240 or the 10.7s since its warmer sound and more musical than the fluance signatures and I know you enjoy music as much as home theater. Don't forget you have to buy stands as well so the cost of the bookshelves are more than you think.

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Also I noticed you tripled your budget! LOL Even the center is over $700 for sierra 2. This is a fun and DANGEROUS hobby! Hope your wife is prepared!

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post #59 of 82 Old 02-03-2016, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah there are so many speaker options it's overwhelming. I've read so much about the Sierra 2 I had to give it a try. I did communicate with Dave and Dina at Ascend and I'm sure I would have been happy with the Sierra 1 but YOLO!

We are teaching my little girl not to bring big toys on that side of the room. This isn't her primary play room, rather a space for everyone to gather and be entertained.

I'll either purchase a long TV stand and place the speakers on each end or buy the stands that I can fill with sand.

I also saved an additional $75 off my sub purchase with my loyalty discount. I forgot about that when placing the order, but they were happy to honor since this is my 3rd and 4th sub from them.


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Those sierra 2s should be an improvement over the fluance (I hope so since they cost more) and you have the subs to cover the low frequencies. If you don't like them we will give you more recommendations. By the way you can get sanus stands from amazon for good price. If you plan on having longer tv stand and not have room for floorstanders then bookshelves are your only option. They make those rubber sound vibrating absorption pads you can use to put speakers on top of the tv stand. Just make sure tweeters are ear level, if stand is low you can get those angle pads and you are golden. When do you expect sierras to arrive?

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