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Seaton MFW-15 Turbo SS

31K views 374 replies 49 participants last post by  blake18 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 · (Edited)
I am to get one of these on Thursday. My first serious subwoofer.

Intend to take and post some photos.

I am also getting a Umik-1. What with REW, which I've downloaded, I should be able to take and post some measurements. I also recently bought a used MiniDSP nanoAvr HD. But I have never done any such thing before, so I will need your patience / instructions / encouragement.

Like if I intend to take an 1 meter measurement, should the tip of the microphone be 1 meter from the middle of the woofer? On a microphone stand? Pointing at the driver?
 
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#3 · (Edited)
#4 ·
Surely there must be some Moho finish recipients out there by now who can share their impressions? My understanding was that were shipping out two weeks ago. So far seems like the only ones chiming in are the handful of black painted units. Has anyone received the email with pics yet?
 
#5 ·
The first units went out yesterday with more going out today. I have now e-mailed all of the customers who had units on order.

I did make some very worthwhile refinements this past weekend when I again spent a lot of time dialing in, measuring and listening to the MFW-15 Turbo. I have no hesitation stating this sub will hit well above it's class so far as size and cost. I would have no hesitation shipping a product with this level of performance for a ~$1500 sale price. I will post up some frequency response measurements I took in our warehouse this weekend.
 
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#6 ·
Thanks for the updates and pics and looking very forward to my MFW! I didn't realize you were still tweaking them, but I am sure everyone will appreciate the extra attention to detail. It's Awesome to hear how pleased you are with the result, makes the wait very worth it :). Thanks again!
 
#7 · (Edited)
"Michelangelo! I know you are painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, but when are you going to be done?"
 

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#9 · (Edited)
Delivery scheduled for today!

Originally it was to arrive Thursday, but FedEx must know how eager I am, so they probably drove thru the night. As it is listed as weighing 126 pounds, I hope they brought 2 guys with them. Don't want them to drive by house, say 'No one is home' and tell me that I have to go pick it up. I made the mistake of going to a website where people detailed their experiences with FedEx, and now I am worried that those stories will apply to me. My wife tells me that no one ever goes to those websites to say that their delivery was fine. I know, but those people aren't getting a new subwoofer!

Update: It has arrived at home! There will be some BASS-kicking tonight!
 
#10 ·
Originally it was to arrive Thursday, but FedEx must know how eager I am, so they probably drove thru the night. As it is listed as weighing 126 pounds, I hope they brought 2 guys with them. Don't want them to drive by house, say 'No one is home' and tell me that I have to go pick it up. I made the mistake of going to a website where people detailed their experiences with FedEx, and now I am worried that those stories will apply to me. My wife tells me that no one ever goes to those websites to say that their delivery was fine. I know, but those people aren't getting a new subwoofer!

Update: It has arrived at home! There will be some BASS-kicking tonight!
Awesome!! Put some pics up ASAP! After you test her out of course :). Mine is now officially en route now!
 
#12 ·
#14 · (Edited)
Removed my JBL PSW-1200, and plugged in MFW-15 and turned it on.

Played clips at medium volume (somewhat lower volume than I use for demo-ing) from The Man From Uncle, Pacific Time, U-571, Star Trek, Gravedigger music video.

I have a huge open room (9000 cubic feet) on top of tile floors, so there is not much chance for pressurization. My old JBL PSW-1200 was/is still working. Didn't do any equalization or such.

It sounded good. I felt the sub speaker cover vibrating. I thought the all speakers sounded clearer, but that may be wishful thinking. It did not sound life-changing better. BUT in no way do I mean to imply, nor should you infer, anything negative about the Seaton MFW-15 Turbo SS. I need to do some measurements, some tweaking, some loud listening.

When I got my plasma TV professionally calibrated, it did not all of sudden make me taller, younger, skinnier, or debt free. The calibrated TV looks good. Other tv's may appear better. But I KNOW that I have one of best looking displays ever.

With my new sub I KNOW I have a great subwoofer. I just have to spend some proving it to myself (and my family who think I am crazy for buying such an expensive toys).
 
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#17 ·
Good to hear your sub arrived safely, and thank you for posting the pictures.

From the above comments it wasn't clear, but how did you set the level of the sub? I don't recall at the moment, but does your receiver have Audyssey or any other room-EQ features? If so, these should be turned off or re-run with the new subwoofer.

U-571's depth charged scene should be giving the sub a real workout... along with any loose items in your room. From above comments, I'd wager you could turn up the Level knob some and don't be afraid to play at a bit higher level. Be sure all of your speakers are set to "small" and start with an 80Hz crossover. The setup suggestions posted here on our forum for the MFW-15 Mk2 amplifier define all the functions of the amplifier which are the same. Remember you can also use your UMIK-1 with REW as a very nice SPL meter, even before you get the HDMI output working. Just set to SPL or RTA mode after loading the calibration file for the UMIK in the preferences window of REW. You can download the calibration file by entering your serial number on the mic 1/2 way down this page at MiniDSP's site.
 
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#16 ·
My son suggested that I get one of those special-properties power cord and use that, and what a difference it would make! Does anyone have a $10,000 power cord laying around that I can try out? :wink:
 
#18 ·
That I can't report that my new subwoofer sounds life-changingly fantastic, the problem is with me, not with the subwoofer. Haven't had time to dial it in. And my room is very audio-ly challenged. But still I am very happy with my new sub.

I did no room correction after hooking up the new subwoofer. My avr doesn't have any. With my old subwoofer, I had used a SPL meter to level match the speakers. After swapping in my new subwoofer, I didn't even retake the levels. I intend to use my new Umik-1 (that I bought from Seaton Sound) and REW and nanoAvr HD to do all the measurements and correction. (That stuff is brand new to me). Just haven't had the time yet. I did turn up the LFE Gain all the way to the right. But I haven't played anything after that but "Home" and that barely has any bass. Hopefully this weekend I can play Godzilla, Apollo 13, Cloverfield, Gravity. And loudly.

Can't wait to read others impressions of their new MFW-15.
 
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#19 · (Edited)
Can someone please explain what these frequency numbers mean? Specifically "-15/24-200Hz".

I assume that it goes up to 200Hz. Got that. But does it go down to 15 or 24 Hz dB?
 

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#22 ·
The 15/24Hz is the approximate low and high range of the +/-3dB response window when you adjust the "LF EQ" knob on the MFW-15. Yesterday I posted these measurements of the MFW-15 Turbo to our forum.

For those following along, here is the amplifier panel:


With the knobs in the above position (LF EQ @ 12 noon on the dial), this is the approximate frequency response +/- a few bumps from measuring inside our warhouse:

NOTE: Numbers on the left in these measurements have no correlation to maximum capability.


Now let's overlay the changes to this curve with the LF EQ knob at maximum (RED) and minimum (GREEN):


Of course there are a range of responses available between this minimum and maximum shown below:
 
#20 ·
Apology, and WOW!

If anyone read my previous posts and thought anything badly of the Seaton Sound MFW-15 Turbo SS, I owe you a big apology. Mark Seaton offered me some advice about why I wasn't feeling a physical impact from his subwoofer. Paraphrasing him, he said "Turn it up." And was he ever correct! I turned it up, and Holy WOW!

Initially I had used my SPL meter to level set all speakers and the subwoofer (I used the World Of Wonder Disney blu-ray and matched them at 75dB). On the subwoofer amplifier, the Level knob was set at "MID" (noon), and the LF EQ knob was set at 0dB (noon). My avr does not have its volume control in dB, but rather in relative numbers, so it is hard to know exactly what dB level I am listening to. I have since done some tests and I have a better idea what those relative numbers mean in terms of dB. The other day, when I was watching those blu-rays, I didn't note the relative number, but it probably was at about 70-ish dBs. And I didn't feel much from this subwoofer. Remember my room is extremely large at about 9000 cubic feet, with a tile floor on top of concrete. So I just figured that the room was too big for the subwoofer.

And then Mark Seaton suggested I turn it up.

This morning, my wife said she was going to take a nap [because she didn't sleep good last night], and she said that I could play with my subwoofer. I said 'Won't the noise bother you?' and she said 'No, I will just turn on the air cleaner and I won't hear anything'.

So I turned up the Level knob to about 2:30 (about three quarters), and the LF EQ knob to about to about three quarters. I since have learned that the Level knob at about 1:15-ish is about 13 dB hot. I don't know what three quarters is in terms of dB hot, perhaps 15-18? dB On the avr, I had the volume at 40, which translates to about 75 dB. 45 is about 80 dB. Usually when no one is home, I might listen at 40 to 45 on the volume knob.

Played "Depth Charged" of U-571 and lots of other LFE clips from my ScubaSteve Demo Disc, volume 1, and from Cloverfield, and from Pacific Rim. And I really FELT it! Sitting 12 feet away. My pants were flapping. My tibia/fibula were vibrating. An LED lamp was blinking. Felt compression in my chest. My son called me into the garage, where the ladder was vibrating on its hooks.

Two hours latter my wife came out of the bedroom, and said "Aren't you finished yet! I haven't gotten any sleep. The bed is vibrating and the windows are rattling".

So I had to stop my play time.

But oh my WOW, it was wonderful loud physical bass!

Of course 15-18 db hot is ridiculous too much. I have to find more time to dial it in. But this subwoofer in my huge room is very capable of producing a visceral feel.
 
#21 ·
And then Mark Seaton suggested I turn it up...

Played "Depth Charged" of U-571 and lots of other LFE clips from my ScubaSteve Demo Disc, volume 1, and from Cloverfield, and from Pacific Rim. And I really FELT it! Sitting 12 feet away. My pants were flapping. My tibia/fibula were vibrating. An LED lamp was blinking. Felt compression in my chest. My son called me into the garage, where the ladder was vibrating on its hooks.

Two hours latter my wife came out of the bedroom, and said "Aren't you finished yet! I haven't gotten any sleep. The bed is vibrating and the windows are rattling".

So I had to stop my play time.

But oh my WOW, it was wonderful loud physical bass!

Of course 15-18 db hot is ridiculous too much. I have to find more time to dial it in. But this subwoofer in my huge room is very capable of producing a visceral feel.
Progress.


Thanks for sharing the process you've been working through. It sounds like you've explored "not enough" and now "a bit too much" with "just right" being the next target.

Quickly setting the level of the subwoofer with an SPL meter is still a bit of a fuzzy stab since all it takes is a few peaks or dips in the response to greatly skew what that "75dB C" reading is, or is not telling you. Ultimately you have to please your ear, and I would wager that when you get around to a few frequency response measurements we will get some insight as to what you experienced in both of the above extremes.

Since you're still in the general tinkering and listening stage, I would suggest if you have a 10' or less ceiling height to experiment with lowering the LF EQ knob to 12-10 o'clock position and then adjusting to a level that doesn't overtake the main speakers and male dialog too much. Be sure your speakers are all set to 80Hz and try lowering the sub level to about 1/2 way between "too much" and where you started. From there you can try playing the system a little louder as this gives you more bass along with more detail from the speakers. There are plenty who enjoy a +10-20dB ramping in level at the lowest frequencies, but if your speakers and room acoustics are comfortable at a little higher playback level, the bass and overall detail will be greater if the mains are adding all of that detail at a more appropriate level. In simplest terms, if you have the subwoofer +15dB vs the mains and listening at -15dB on the main volume, you can lower the subs by 5dB and raise the main volume 5dB to -10dB, and you are now hearing the same intensity of bass, with more main speaker to compliment it, potentially making for a more exciting and more detailed presentation.
 
#26 ·
I received two Mojo subwoofers Thursday last week, they look great, to me. Ran audyssey (on Onkyo 818-will have to do it again) and did many of the things below with ramping up volume and LFE below. I'm filling a huge space with great sound from movies, music sounds great and I was completely amazed. I had good sound before, my mains didn't sweat mid 30s sound, but the sound when you really can go deep with authority is completely different.

Then my wife saw the 'small ported' subwoofer. Then the other one.

The size of each exceeded the WAF (doubled the non-acceptance with two) so I will be doing some non-audio things such as downsizing the current equipment cabinet and taking advantage of remote technology such as Harmony, probably use some wireless sub solutions. I don't have a home theater space, I'm sharing a living room with someone with a definite opinion on the visuals.

If I have a sub on the front wall, it doesn't really have to face out into the listening space-correct? It may require a little extra gain when setting up, but the orientation doesn't matter in the long run? We are renting and this living room is laid out strangely-if I put a sub behind a sofa into a relatively tight space it's the same thing-run Audyssey, and adjust gain accordingly? How much space do I need to allow from the speaker and vent in a tight space?
 
#27 ·
I received my MFW today! I was able to try it out yet as I got home too late to swap it out for the XV15se before the wife noticed but hopefully tomorrow. I did unbox it and wow what excellent packaging! The foam pieces are unbelievably strong and the box was so rugged. Each panel of the sub was wrapped in foam and then extra heavy duty plastic wrapped around everything. This is truly the best ID sub packaging I have seen. The black finish also looks really really nice, more like a soft gloss satin, it has no texture in the paint so it truly feels smooth like the Outlaw sub finishes but feels like wood not plastic. The grill is nice too,very impressed by overall presentation and attention to detail. This thing is heavy tho! Definitely feels every bit the 40 pounds heavier over the XV. Cannot wait to fire it up tomorrow, and just found out the wife will be away Wed-Fri so will have two nights of Turbo testing!
 
#29 · (Edited)
Love my DIY Turbo'd MFW-15s. :D I put huge TC Sounds drivers in them - power them with an iNuke 3000DSP - have run Audyssey to smooth out the bass, as well as used REW to perfectly tune them in. Of course, this is a lot more work, and I fully recommend anyone looking to upgrade to go with Mark Seaton's kits.

It's so awesome to see everyone happy with their VERY reliable MFW-15s. This is how the MFW-15 should have originally been.

Mark, you should absolutely keep producing these for the foreseeable future. At the price you offer them, these are a smash hit. These can easily take on the HSU VTF-15h mk2, the Rythmik FV15hp, SVS PB-13 Ultra, ect...
 
#31 ·
My auto off is not working on the amp. It works for turning it on, but once done the green light stays on and clicks about every min or so like its trying to turn off but doesn't. The amp is also quite warm to the touch. When I unplug it and replug it in, the red light comes back on and seems to end the cycling. I know that other people have had similar issues with the latest Ice amps but hoped the new batch of amps had corrected this. Anyone else experiencing this?
 
#42 · (Edited)
My Echo18, which also uses an ICE amp, had the same auto off issues. It also ran really warm. I'll never buy another sub with an ICE amp. I pound my Sledge amps with LFE and they never even get slightly warm and function perfectly.
 
#32 ·
I am so glad you said something about the auto off clicking. For the first time last night (it so happened while watching Tron Legacy), I was hearing loud clicking every so often from my MFW-15. I figured it was the auto off turning off when not needed, and turning on when needed (but probably too late to be immediately useful). I don't mind it turning itself on and off as needed. What I did mind was the loud clicking. Noticeable by all. Started maybe 30 minutes into the movie, and happened like 10 times before I finally turned the switch to On. I know can easily not have the problem by manually flipping the switch to ON as needed. Or leaving in the on position, but using a power strip. I don't like the idea that there might be something wrong with the amp. As to the amp getting hot, I can not contribute any experience-knowledge. Nor can I say anything about the light (as the sub sits in a corner).
 
#33 ·
BTW, IMHO, "Tron Legacy" is great bass movie! Not saying it is a great movie. Not sure it is actually all that good of a movie. But I don't care, because its bass is wonderful! Lots of it, and mostly all the time. Would probably be a better movie if Jeff Bridges was seen and heard less. But I loved the bass. No wonder it is listed as 5 stars in The Master List of Bass in Movies thread. If you want lots of bass, this movie delivers!
 
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#35 ·
So I get home, the sub has been cycling on off all day, so now I sit down to watch tv, and it turns on then off on its own while I'm watching tv, so now the red light is FINALLY on on its own but yet I am sending it signal, WTF ugh

I don't get why these ICE amps have such issues with the auto on feature. Every single one of my "cheap" subs or any with the Bash amps never had a single issue. Very frustrating.
 
#36 ·
That's a SpeakerPower module, so there's nothing cheap about it. What you're experiencing is not related specifically to an ICE amp though, so don't correlate the two. Given an opportunity I'm certain Mark will figure it out and get things rectified.
 
#38 · (Edited)
The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

From 1:45:38 to 1:46:18, peaking at about 1:46:03, the tolling bell set my sub to either vibrating and/or distorting like crazy! When I played it a second time, a little louder, I went over and sat on the sub, and the vibration / distortion quieted. The first time the avr sound was at about 70 dB and the sub about 13 dB above that.

Can anyone report similar phenomen?




ps - I really, really like this movie! It is so much fun. Great music, stars, humor, visuals, the intentional anachronisms. I could go on quite some time. If you haven't seen it, check it out.
 
#40 ·
The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

From 1:45:38 to 1:46:18, peaking at about 1:46:03, the tolling bell set my sub to either vibrating and/or distorting like crazy! When I played it a second time, a little louder, I went over and sat on the sub, and the vibration / distortion quieted. The first time the avr sound was at about 70 dB and the sub about 13 dB above that.

Can anyone report similar phenomen?




ps - I really, really like this movie! It is so much fun. Great music, stars, humor, visuals, the intentional anachronisms. I could go on quite some time. If you haven't seen it, check it out.



13 DB hot? How are you sitting in the same room with it? I am running this sub with no boost just audyssey xt32 cal and getting room shaking bass. My ears would be bleeding at +13db
 
#39 ·
I have had my upgrade installed for about a week now. This is my second MFW15 turbo. The first has the external amplifier. They are located in the front corners of my home theater. Needless to say, these do not disappoint. I have the knobs on the ice amplifier set to the recommended positions suggested by Mark. Ran audyssey XT32 with sub eq. Threw in the San Andreas bluray and let the Denon AVR7200WA do its thing.
These things will shake your house. No boom. Very detailed bass. You can feel the various thumps and bumps within the earthquakes. This new one seems to be a little more detailed and powerful. Not sure about that, just going by feel.
Nice job Mark.
Will recommend this upgrade to anyone with a MFW15. Can't go wrong.


PS.... I am having the clicking from the power amp when it is in auto mode. Just leaving it in ON mode at the time


Steve
 
#41 · (Edited)
As far I figure, 13dB above 70dB, yields 83dB of bass. That is quite loud enough to hear well the bass in my extremely large room, but it is nowhere near bleeding level.
 
#44 ·
The cycling explanation makes sense, but what I don't understand is why when I am watching tv it will shut off and not come back on unless I switch to programming with constant LFE. If a program is predominantly dialogue it likes to take a hard nap, so why does it not make the same turn off pop then?

Thanks for the explanation on the heat.

How do I setup the 12v trigger if that's the only solution at this time?
 
#45 ·
If your AVR has 12v trigger out, all you need is a 3.5mm Stereo Plug Male to Male cable.

I am surprised that my AVR, SC-1222k doesn't have 12v trigger out though.

If not, you will need a module. Otherwise, you just need to have the sub plugged into a separate surge protector that you can turn on and off easily. This way you can have the sub @ ON 24/7.
 
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