My SVS PB1000 is chuffing bad!! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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My SVS PB1000 is chuffing bad!!

I have been watching the force awakens on blu Ray tonight and some of the scenes where kylo ren is using the force is hitting super low and pressurizing the room but the chuffing is so bad that my wife told me it sounds like my speaker is about to blow.

It's awful and I feel disappointed considering all the praise for svs. Going to give them a call tomorrow.

Re played the scene several times and bent down next to the port and could hear the chuffing. Wanted to make sure that's what is was versus a window or door rattle.

Anyone else have this problem with their pb1000?
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post #2 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ddvette9 View Post
I have been watching the force awakens on blu Ray tonight and some of the scenes where kylo ren is using the force is hitting super low and pressurizing the room but the chuffing is so bad that my wife told me it sounds like my speaker is about to blow.

It's awful and I feel disappointed considering all the praise for svs. Going to give them a call tomorrow.

Re played the scene several times and bent down next to the port and could hear the chuffing. Wanted to make sure that's what is was versus a window or door rattle.

Anyone else have this problem with their pb1000?
Its probably from to high of a sub level and or an dynamic EQ is boosting the deep bass to much for an entry-level subwoofer that has a deep tuning. Its a very common issue.
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post #3 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ddvette9 View Post
I have been watching the force awakens on blu Ray tonight and some of the scenes where kylo ren is using the force is hitting super low and pressurizing the room but the chuffing is so bad that my wife told me it sounds like my speaker is about to blow.

It's awful and I feel disappointed considering all the praise for svs. Going to give them a call tomorrow.

Re played the scene several times and bent down next to the port and could hear the chuffing. Wanted to make sure that's what is was versus a window or door rattle.

Anyone else have this problem with their pb1000?
Its probably from to high of a sub level and or an dynamic EQ is boosting the deep bass to much for an entry-level subwoofer that has a deep tuning. Its a very common issue.
I'm running a Denon avr 1612 and dynamic eq is on and sub trim after audyssey came back at -9.5 and I'm running it hot at -2. Sub seems to struggle at low frequencies like that. Disappointed and hoping I can find a solution. Sub gain is half way on sub itself.
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post #4 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:01 PM
 
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Its probably from to high of a sub level and or an dynamic EQ is boosting the deep bass to much for an entry-level subwoofer that has a deep tuning. Its a very common issue.
+1. The sub is telling you that you're trying to get too much out of it. Heed its warning.
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post #5 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
Its probably from to high of a sub level and or an dynamic EQ is boosting the deep bass to much for an entry-level subwoofer that has a deep tuning. Its a very common issue.
+1. The sub is telling you that you're trying to get too much out of it. Heed its warning.
Gain is only half way and trim is still negative after bumping it up.......if that's the case, I am very disappointed.
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post #6 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:08 PM
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Gain is only half way and trim is still negative after bumping it up.......if that's the case, I am very disappointed.
You have to understand that your running you're sub 12-15 db hot with dynamic EQ
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post #7 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Gain is only half way and trim is still negative after bumping it up.......if that's the case, I am very disappointed.
You have to understand that your running you're sub 12-15 db hot with dynamic EQ
So if the trim level on the menu after audyssey is -9.5 then you're telling me with dynamic eq engaged it's really +5?
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post #8 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:35 PM
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So if the trim level on the menu after audyssey is -9.5 then you're telling me with dynamic eq engaged it's really +5?
+5 at a minimum if your listening very loud otherwise It could be as much as 20 db depending on the master volume and then how much you raised the sub trim after audyssey.
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post #9 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:35 PM
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So if the trim level on the menu after audyssey is -9.5 then you're telling me with dynamic eq engaged it's really +5?
Have you tried bumping up the sub gain then re-run Audyssey? Like others have said, you're probably working the sub too hard at your current settings.
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post #10 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:39 PM
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So if the trim level on the menu after audyssey is -9.5 then you're telling me with dynamic eq engaged it's really +5?
I think it is more like 5 dB increase on average at moderate levels. You would have to have your volume at low levels to get +10 dB I would think because it goes down the louder the output (why it is called dynamic EQ.)

I am not completely sure, but I think if you were listening around -25 on your AVR, it would be adding around 5-7 dB bass (and I think to high upper range too) during typical output , but if you had a peak dynamic in a movie that naturally raise output 20 dB, DynaEQ would add little to nothing to that peak.

So, for that dynamic peak in the movie that caused chuffing, DynaEQ is probably not adding much.

Last edited by checker9; 04-05-2016 at 08:44 PM.
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post #11 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:41 PM
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Have you tried bumping up the sub gain then re-run Audyssey? Like others have said, you're probably working the sub too hard at your current settings.
His gain level is good its just to much of a post cal sub boost for that subwoofer
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post #12 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:51 PM
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I think it is more like 5 dB increase on average at moderate levels. You would have to have your volume at low levels to get +10 dB I would think because it goes down the louder the output (why it is called dynamic EQ.)

I am not completely sure, but I think if you were listening around -25 on your AVR, it would be adding around 5-7 dB bass (and I think to high upper range too) during typical output , but if you had a peak dynamic in a movie that naturally raise output 20 dB, DynaEQ would add little to nothing to that peak.

So, for that dynamic peak in the movie that caused chuffing, DynaEQ is probably not adding much.
Dynamic eq is always boosting until you reach -00 on the master volume and at -20 it's closer to 8 db at 20 hertz plus 7 db from sub level boost post calibration.
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post #13 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 08:56 PM
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His gain level is good its just to much of a post cal sub boost for that subwoofer
Ahhh...ok. I've read that if you're getting chuffing with the gain at 12:00 you can bump the gain up to around 1-2:00 and run audysey again. That way you can still get the volume you want without overworking the sub?
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post #14 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:00 PM
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Ahhh...ok. I've read that if you're getting chuffing with the gain at 12:00 you can bump the gain up to around 1-2:00 and run audysey again. That way you can still get the volume you want without overworking the sub?
That would be for clipping the sub output
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post #15 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:07 PM
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That would be for clipping the sub output
Hmm. Ok. I'm curious as to what his options would be then. Simply turn it down? Experiment with placement? Buy a bigger, better sub?
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post #16 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:15 PM
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Hmm. Ok. I'm curious as to what his options would be then. Simply turn it down? Experiment with placement? Buy a bigger, better sub?
well first step would be to turn off dynamic eq and see if it still happens
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post #17 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:22 PM
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Star wars does have some high level content at the subs tune and that's where the biggest boost happens with dynamic EQ
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post #18 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ddvette9 View Post
I'm running a Denon avr 1612 and dynamic eq is on and sub trim after audyssey came back at -9.5 and I'm running it hot at -2. Sub seems to struggle at low frequencies like that. Disappointed and hoping I can find a solution. Sub gain is half way on sub itself.
+7.5 dB hot with dynamic eq on and you expect a single 10" sub to not hit its limits on deep passages? Send it back and get a PB2000.
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post #19 of 136 Old 04-05-2016, 09:32 PM
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To help frame this conversation better, what's the volume of the room it's in? Is it open to other parts of the house?

Assuming you can get the chuffing to go away by changing settings, it's possible that the sub just isn't designed to handle your room size.

You mentioned experimenting with placement. No matter the sub, that's always a good idea. Use the "crawling for bass" technique with a repeating sweep playing back.


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post #20 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 12:29 AM
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You are demanding way too much from a 10" sub. I'm assuming your limiter light is coming on while this is happening? If you are running the sub 7.5dB hot over Audyssey, disable dynamic EQ and try that, with everything else the same. You can even increase the sub level from -2 to 0 and see how that goes. If you room is medium size or bigger, you don't have enough sub to begin with. If you were pushing some other subs this hard, you could hear bottoming out, popping or other danger signs. SVS limiters work very well, so apparently you are really pushing the sub beyond it's limits if it's chuffing that badly. Definitely disable dynamic EQ and go from there. Sounds to me like you probably need a second PB-1000 or perhaps a trade up to a PB-2000.
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post #21 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 01:29 AM
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You've got it turned up to 11. Turn it down.
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post #22 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm the original poster. The parts it's chuffing at are extremely low frequencies only. So low the sounds are more felt than heard. So what happens is because the sound is so low on the other speakers the only effect is that low frequency bass and so I feel it in my chest but also hear the subwoofer chuffing. The chuffing is so evident because the movie is only spitting out 20hz bass and nothing else so everything gets quiet and you just feel the bass. If you've seen the force awakens, test out any of the scenes where kylo ren is using the force either force grab or force push its amazing the sound coding they used for that effect in the room.

The frequency is so low at some of the kylo ren parts that that cone itself is demonstrating sick amazing exursion. It's dancing around like its at high school prom lol.

I'm sorry, but if my sub gain is half way and my audyssey trim level isn't bad, a sub shouldn't chuff THAT BAD even in a larger room. Room size to me would have to do with how loud and effective it sounds as a bigger room eats up the bass more. Not how much noise is coming out of the port.

I think at that part in the movie on my settings the pb1000 would chuff no matter where it was. Big or small room.

I could understand if my gain was 75% and on audyssey I was running a POSITIVE strike level AND dynamic eq was engaged, but not at my settings.....

It's either a setting I need to tinker around with or the sub has to regrettably go back and I have to start at ground zero again.
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post #23 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 04:00 AM
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I had cone flapping with my SB1000 just a few days ago, fixed it yesterday when the SVS owner's thread told me to run the AVR's sub trim at negative values and turn up the gain.
SVS rep told me the same thing, drop sub trim to -5, move gain knob on sub to 2 - 3 o'clock. I pretty much eliminated the cone flapping after that.

Prior to that, my original settings were 11 o'clock on the sub, -2 on the AVR. SVS also said that the way the Sledge amp works best is to have a 2/3rd's gain with as low as possible of a gain value on the AVR (no matter what AVR btw).

Not the same issue as port chuffing, but it's worth a try.
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I had cone flapping with my SB1000 just a few days ago, fixed it yesterday when the SVS owner's thread told me to run the AVR's sub trim at negative values and turn up the gain.
SVS rep told me the same thing, drop sub trim to -5, move gain knob on sub to 2 - 3 o'clock. I pretty much eliminated the cone flapping after that.

Prior to that, my original settings were 11 o'clock on the sub, -2 on the AVR. SVS also said that the way the Sledge amp works best is to have a 2/3rd's gain with as low as possible of a gain value on the AVR (no matter what AVR btw).

Not the same issue as port chuffing, but it's worth a try.
I'm getting cone flapping pretty bad as well. The fine dances like its at a club and flaps around during some heavy LFE.

I kept reading everywhere to keep gain at half way and turn trim up on avr. I'm going to test turning gain up on sub and leaving trim lower on avr maybe....
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post #25 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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So I just moved the trim level on the sub for testing purposes to -12 which is the lowest it will go and I left dynamic eq engaged and the cone flapping and port chuffing is mostly gone do I was able to eliminate it. But now I obviously don't get the same LFE effects in my room so I'm assuming next step would be to adjust gain higher on sub itself and re run audyssey. Maybe the sledge amp is working against me with audyssey.....
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post #26 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 05:35 AM
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It's a shame that you're not enjoying the sub as much as you were just a few days ago.

According to an old post of yours, your room is "20 by 40 with 8 ft ceilings" and you "play movies mid to high level (close to reference)".

Curious: By comparison, how did your previous sub (a Sony SA-W2500) perform with similar content at similar volume levels?

My reason for asking: IIRC, you were originally looking for a sub with better overall performance compared to your current sub. Although your budget was initially ~$200, you took the plunge and spent more on the PB-1000. Are you getting (noticeably or significantly) better performance? If 'yes' - and based on your post from a few days ago, that seems to be the case - then the money was well-spent.

It may be that you're now expecting a level of performance from the PB-1000 that it simply can't deliver. This is a separate issue, and some options for addressing it include:
i) adding a second PB-1000; or
ii) returning the PB-1000 (with free return shipping, your in-home demo will have cost you $0) and replacing it with:
- a PB-2000;
- an RBH I-12 (same price ($499) as a PB-1000, but should have better overall performance);
- an RBH I-12/e ($699, but w/ a 500W amp, more overall output and greater extension); or
- an Outlaw Ultra-X12 (when on sale for ~$550, shipped).
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post #27 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 06:10 AM
 
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I'm assuming next step would be to adjust gain higher on sub itself and re run audyssey.
The next step should be to have enough subwooferage to handle your room size and the levels you want to run at. While the SVS is very good as far as tens go it's still a ten inch loaded sub. You can't carry a two ton load in a half ton pickup.
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According to an old post of yours, your room is "20 by 40 with 8 ft ceilings" and you "play movies mid to high level (close to reference)".
If that's the case a pair of twelves would be the minimum.
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post #28 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I have beat the heck out of the sub with several movies and it has not disappointed. It does hit like a sledge hammer in my room and has added a whole new level of dimension to my movies. All of my initial impressions in my thread form a few days ago is still there.

I love this thing so much.

I even watched some of the prequel star wars movies and had NO problems.

Watching the Force Awakens last night during a few sequences my wife looked to me and asked if my speaker was breaking. What she heard was woofer flapping coupled with port chuffing which didn't make for a god sound.

At those parts in the movie al of the other speakers are silent, the only "sound" is Kylo Ren using the force and you are meant to feel it in your chest the same way the characters on screen feel his force push/pull.

Something is going on with some of those LFE points in that movie that caused me to hear some stuff out of my sub that it hasn't done with anything else I've out it through.

My first thread a few days ago holds true and the sub handles everything fine for my room so please stop urging me to add 2 twleve inch subs. That will be complete overkill in my residential living room.

I started this thread to see if anyone else had chuffing and/or woofer flapping with the PB1000 and if they did what was their solution?

I would urge you guys if you have The Force Awakens to plug in it and crank the volume and see what you think. There have been a few other posts I am sure of some movies with LFE content that caused higher end subs to chuff as well.
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post #29 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ddvette9 View Post
I'm sorry, but if my sub gain is half way and my audyssey trim level isn't bad, a sub shouldn't chuff THAT BAD even in a larger room. Room size to me would have to do with how loud and effective it sounds as a bigger room eats up the bass more. Not how much noise is coming out of the port.

I think at that part in the movie on my settings the pb1000 would chuff no matter where it was. Big or small room.

I could understand if my gain was 75% and on audyssey I was running a POSITIVE strike level AND dynamic eq was engaged, but not at my settings.....

It's either a setting I need to tinker around with or the sub has to regrettably go back and I have to start at ground zero again.
You are completely misunderstanding how subwoofers, gain, and AVR sub trim work. The fact that the sub gain is at 12:00, or your AVR time is in the negative, has absolutely nothing to do with how hard you are pushing the sub.

Here's the thing, with sub gain at 12:00, your AVR set the sub trim at -9.5 to get the correct, calibrated level to match up the output with your speakers, your AVR, and your room based on your MLP. From here, you took a small driver, small cab, low powered entry level ported sub and adjusted the AVR trim +7.5 dB from the calibrated level. What does this mean?

It requires a 100% increase in power to increase SPL from your sub by 3 dB. A 6 dB increase requires four times as much power from a single sub. It takes double the number of subs to get a 6 dB increase in output....double the power and double the excursion = + 6dB. Just based on your AVR trim adjustment of +7.5 dB from calibrated level, you are calling on your sub to increase power output by over 450%. Now, you are using dynamic eq which is asking your sub to again double its output. Overall, you are asking your small cab, small driver, lower power entry level HT sub to put out 12+ dB output from a normal calibrated level. Again, it takes four subs under ideal conditions to add 12 dB of headroom versus a single sub.

The sub is not the issue...at all. Calling on a small inexpensive sub to put out over four times as much output is the issue.

Again, what # the gain dial points to is completely meaningless. The gain dial is simply a calibration knob to match your subs output with your system and room.
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post #30 of 136 Old 04-06-2016, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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You are completely misunderstanding how subwoofers, gain, and AVR sub trim work. The fact that the sub gain is at 12:00, or your AVR time is in the negative, has absolutely nothing to do with how hard you are pushing the sub.

Here's the thing, with sub gain at 12:00, your AVR set the sub trim at -9.5 to get the correct, calibrated level to match up the output with your speakers, your AVR, and your room based on your MLP. From here, you took a small driver, small cab, low powered entry level ported sub and adjusted the AVR trim +7.5 dB from the calibrated level. What does this mean?

It requires a 100% increase in power to increase SPL from your sub by 3 dB. A 6 dB increase requires four times as much power from a single sub. It takes double the number of subs to get a 6 dB increase in output....double the power and double the excursion = + 6dB. Just based on your AVR trim adjustment of +7.5 dB from calibrated level, you are calling on your sub to increase power output by over 450%. Now, you are using dynamic eq which is asking your sub to again double its output. Overall, you are asking your small cab, small driver, lower power entry level HT sub to put out 12+ dB output from a normal calibrated level. Again, it takes four subs under ideal conditions to add 12 dB of headroom versus a single sub.

The sub is not the issue...at all. Calling on a small inexpensive sub to put out over four times as much output is the issue.

Again, what # the gain dial points to is completely meaningless. The gain dial is simply a calibration knob to match your subs output with your system and room.
Just put a call through to SVS and they share your thoughts as well. They advised that I re-run Audyssey and after the trim level is set to -9 or so that I ONLY bump it up 3db and re-watch some of the same scenes and see if the flapping and chuffing still occur. If not, and I still want more bass, then get bigger or add another sub. If it still chuffs/flaps then it is possible the soundtrack to the movie was recorded at frequencies lower than 19hz (which is what the PB1000 goes down to).

So now I know that 3db hot on a single sub is about all you want to run.........
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