Dual PSA S3600i vs. dual SVS PB13-Ultras – Finding bass nirvana and lessons learned - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 69 Old 06-09-2016, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post
I too am very interested in the comparison between the PSA 3600 compared to the Seaton SubMersive. Or even a comparison with the S3000... Not only in SPL and extension, but musicality and sound quality as well.

Anyone have any insight here?
Unfortunately, I’ve never auditioned the Seaton SubMersive. But since its cabinet size has more volume than the S3000i, I would expect it to be a step up (as price would indicate). I think the S3600 might give the Seaton a better run for its money, so it would be interesting. There were a couple of smaller GTG’s where one gentleman had an XS30se and in another meet, I believe there was an S3000i. In both meets they were highly impressed with the PSA subs (especially for the money), but the Seaton owners still preferred their SubMersives.

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post #32 of 69 Old 06-10-2016, 06:55 AM
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I almost wonder if it is more comparable to the epic empire than the Seaton SubMersive...
The advantage the SubM has over the 3000i is cab volume. Other then that they both use a similar platform driver and high quality amplification. The Empire does not even come close in quality with its stamped basket drivers and China China amplifier...the Empire was a good sub, but again not in the same league as the 3000i in output, extension, or overall quality. I would expect the S3600i to have a output adavntage over the SubM in the 40-80hz, due to the displacement advantage. In the deepest bass they are probably close.

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post #33 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 06:21 AM
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Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter
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post #34 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter
I believe you got a lot of good advice in the other thread you were asking this question in yesterday so probably was no reason to revive this old thread. But again for movies I would stay with ported. The V1811 will have a lot more output than the Ultra in the chest slam frequencies >50hz. Are there specific questions you are trying to get answered? If so then ask them specifically.
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post #35 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter
I believe you got a lot of good advice in the other thread you were asking this question in yesterday so probably was no reason to revive this old thread. But again for movies I would stay with ported. The V1811 will have a lot more output than the Ultra in the chest slam frequencies >50hz. Are there specific questions you are trying to get answered? If so then ask them specifically.
😂😂😂👍 youst saw that this guy hade gone frome a pb13-ultra to seald PSA subb thats why i Asked him also..🙂
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post #36 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
😂😂😂👍 youst saw that this guy hade gone frome a pb13-ultra to seald PSA subb thats why i Asked him also..🙂


Yeah. I still think that it will not give you the answer you are looking for. Sealed subs are a different beast. You have to add more sealed to get the impact of a ported. If your priority is chest slam then stay with ported. You will be able to achieve at lower cost than with sealed which can give you slam as well but again you need more of them or more powerful ones that will cost money.


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post #37 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter

You mention that you are looking for more chest slam so if that is the case then look no further then PSA V1811 subs. Case closed

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post #38 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter
I have dual pb13s and psa v1500 and they blend nicely. The psa v1500 is pretty much same output as pb13. I use my dual pb13s farfield and v1500 nearfield for smooth bass response.

Have you tried your pb2000s nearfield to see if it gives you the punch in higher freqs? That would be low cost method (moving subs nearfield) vs buying newer subs. If you prefer your subs farfield, you would need more powerful subs and possibly more subs to get that slam in the upper frequencies.

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post #39 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter
I have dual pb13s and psa v1500 and they blend nicely. The psa v1500 is pretty much same output as pb13. I use my dual pb13s farfield and v1500 nearfield for smooth bass response.

Have you tried your pb2000s nearfield to see if it gives you the punch in higher freqs? That would be low cost method (moving subs nearfield) vs buying newer subs. If you prefer your subs farfield, you would need more powerful subs and possibly more subs to get that slam in the upper frequencies.
I have one in the front right and one behind the couch pritty close so i have one nerfield. If you hade to chose betwin svs pb13 or the PSA v1500 sub witch one would you stay whit you Think and why..? But i Think im looking at the V1811 or S1811 or maybe S3010.
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post #40 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by iceatola View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Hello Hope you can help me out. I have a seald 1450 Cubic feet concreat movie room.
And i have dual svs pb2000 today but would like some more chest/slam punch over 50hz. They dig dip buth would like some more punch in higher frequencies if you now what i mean..:-)
I watch movies 99% of the time.

Now im looking at dual pb13-ultra or dual PSA V1811 or dual PSA S1811 OR dual S3010.

Do you have any tips for me witch Ones to go whit and why..??

Best regards Peter

You mention that you are looking for more chest slam so if that is the case then look no further then PSA V1811 subs. Case closed [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Ok so you Think even do my room is small and seald 1450Cubic feet. its better to go whit a ported subwoofer then seald..? Whant that punch over 50hz Most.. 🙂
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post #41 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I would definitely go ported if you want more tactile feedback. While my dual S3600s are fantastic, I would absolutely go ported if I had the extra room to accommodate the added size (especially on concrete) of ported subs.


As a test, I put one of my S3600s right behind my theater chair and found that it had to be elevated to fire directly into my back to be worthwhile. I strongly considered trying to shoehorn some 15" or 18" subs in the very limited space behind my chairs but the Crowson's do a great job. Ideally, I'd have both the nearfield subs and the Crowsons but I just don't have the space.


After visiting @lukeamdman 's setup, I've also become a bass junkie. Get the biggest ported sub you can afford and then save up to buy one more for duals. Doing that, you'll never second guess your decision and will undoubtedly be thrilled with the results you'll get.
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post #42 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 02:31 PM
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Ok so you Think even do my room is small and seald 1450Cubic feet. its better to go whit a ported subwoofer then seald..? Whant that punch over 50hz Most.. 🙂
If you want that chest slam like in the movie theaters then ported subs are the way to go. If you are looking for the deepest bass then go with sealed subs. I have dual V1801 subs from PSA and they hit you right in the gut so to speak

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post #43 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 06:35 PM
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I would definitely go ported if you want more tactile feedback. While my dual S3600s are fantastic, I would absolutely go ported if I had the extra room to accommodate the added size (especially on concrete) of ported subs.


As a test, I put one of my S3600s right behind my theater chair and found that it had to be elevated to fire directly into my back to be worthwhile. I strongly considered trying to shoehorn some 15" or 18" subs in the very limited space behind my chairs but the Crowson's do a great job. Ideally, I'd have both the nearfield subs and the Crowsons but I just don't have the space.


After visiting @lukeamdman 's setup, I've also become a bass junkie. Get the biggest ported sub you can afford and then save up to buy one more for duals. Doing that, you'll never second guess your decision and will undoubtedly be thrilled with the results you'll get.
Ok
Sounds like ported is the way to go ..
How big is your room..?
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post #44 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 06:37 PM
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Ok so you Think even do my room is small and seald 1450Cubic feet. its better to go whit a ported subwoofer then seald..? Whant that punch over 50hz Most.. 🙂
If you want that chest slam like in the movie theaters then ported subs are the way to go. If you are looking for the deepest bass then go with sealed subs. I have dual V1801 subs from PSA and they hit you right in the gut so to speak [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Ok
Have you tested or heard svs pb13-ultra or pb4000 against it..? Any thougts betwin theme if thats the case..?
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post #45 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok
Sounds like ported is the way to go ..
How big is your room..?
My room is only slightly bigger than yours at 1,700 cubic feet.

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post #46 of 69 Old 06-28-2018, 07:11 PM
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Ok
Sounds like ported is the way to go ..
How big is your room..?
My room is only slightly bigger than yours at 1,700 cubic feet.
**** dual psa s3600i have to be awesome...:-) but you miss ported anyway..?
you couldent change up to ported or do they not have that program..?
Or have you thinking of selling Theme..? Have you any pictures of your room and the subbs or do you have any Youtube clipps..?
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post #47 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:54 AM
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You might also consider dual Monolith 15 THX, dual Outlaw Ultra X-13s, dual HSU VTF-15H mk2, or dual Rythmik FV15hp. 🙂

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post #48 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
I have one in the front right and one behind the couch pritty close so i have one nerfield. If you hade to chose betwin svs pb13 or the PSA v1500 sub witch one would you stay whit you Think and why..? But i Think im looking at the V1811 or S1811 or maybe S3010.
The v1500 and svs pb13 is pretty much the same. While psa has bigger driver, the svs pb13 has larger box and bigger amp so it evens things out. I would say the pb13 has little slightly more power below 30hz and the v1500 has slightly little more power 40-100hz.

When I said nearfield, I meant very nearfield as in right behind the couch few inches away. LOL I have my dual pb13s in corners and my v1500 4 inches from my couch. The reason for very nearfield is to get that extra slam as I have large open room and on concrete floor.

The sealed is good as ported....but rememember ported gives you more output under 30hz and it would take more sealed subs to match ported at low frequencies. But if you just care about chest slam freq only 40-120hz then maybe you don't need ported. Its up to you. But I would try one sub right up against your couch so you get idea of very near field.

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post #49 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 07:57 AM
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Ok
Have you tested or heard svs pb13-ultra or pb4000 against it..? Any thougts betwin theme if thats the case..?

Yes I have heard the PB13Ultra and you see what I ended up with right The Ultras were good but not what I was looking for. If I wanted the deepest sound then I would have bought me some Rythmik subs instead

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Ok
Have you tested or heard svs pb13-ultra or pb4000 against it..? Any thougts betwin theme if thats the case..?

Yes I have heard the PB13Ultra and you see what I ended up with right [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] The Ultras were good but not what I was looking for. If I wanted the deepest sound then I would have bought me some Rythmik subs instead
Ok so the pb13-ultra could go deaper but dont have the same punch over 50hz..?
Or what was the differens betwin the pb13 and psa V1801 you Think..?
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post #51 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 09:32 AM
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I have one in the front right and one behind the couch pritty close so i have one nerfield. If you hade to chose betwin svs pb13 or the PSA v1500 sub witch one would you stay whit you Think and why..? But i Think im looking at the V1811 or S1811 or maybe S3010.
The v1500 and svs pb13 is pretty much the same. While psa has bigger driver, the svs pb13 has larger box and bigger amp so it evens things out. I would say the pb13 has little slightly more power below 30hz and the v1500 has slightly little more power 40-100hz.

When I said nearfield, I meant very nearfield as in right behind the couch few inches away. LOL I have my dual pb13s in corners and my v1500 4 inches from my couch. The reason for very nearfield is to get that extra slam as I have large open room and on concrete floor.

The sealed is good as ported....but rememember ported gives you more output under 30hz and it would take more sealed subs to match ported at low frequencies. But if you just care about chest slam freq only 40-120hz then maybe you don't need ported. Its up to you. But I would try one sub right up against your couch so you get idea of very near field.
I think the pb2000 goes deep enough but i miss the punch over 50hz.
Do you Think dual psa S1811 Will go as deep as the dual pb2000 becouse im happy whit the pb2000 there..?
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post #52 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:03 PM
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I think the pb2000 goes deep enough but i miss the punch over 50hz.
Do you Think dual psa S1811 Will go as deep as the dual pb2000 becouse im happy whit the pb2000 there..?

Hi Jaxon,

I think that this question has been answered for you several times now. I know that I answered it on another thread. Yes! The V1801's will definitely go low enough, with enough SPL, in a small room like yours. There is an extensive article on "room gain" in Section VII of the Guide, linked in my signature. It will explain how room gain works in detail.

Briefly, small rooms amplify low-frequencies much more than large rooms do. But, they don't amplify mid-bass frequencies in the same way that they do low-frequencies. Mid-bass frequencies benefit from having a subwoofer near a wall (that is called boundary gain) and both small and large rooms will obtain that boundary gain about equally.

So, in a small room (such as your ~1400^3 room) you won't have any trouble at all in getting plenty of low-frequency sound and tactile sensations--low rumbling sounds and sensations--from a couple of good ported subs. That is because the room itself will amplify your low-frequencies with either PB2000's or with V1811's. But, if you want more mid-bass chest punch, then you will need subwoofers which are specifically stronger in those mid-bass frequencies. That is why you keep getting the same advice to buy V1811's, over-and-over on multiple threads.

I know that some of this is new to you, and that you are just trying to understand and to seek reassurance. But, the advice isn't going to change, and you can trust it. If you want more mid-bass kick (chest punch) while still having enough low-bass in your ~1400^3 room, then you should send your PB2000's back and buy dual V1811's. You will like the result!

Again, just for the record, I am a satisfied SVS owner, as are several others who have given you the same advice to exchange your SVS subs for PSA V1811's. We are all simply trying to be objective here about what will best help you to achieve your goals and preferences.

Regards,
Mike

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post #53 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:27 PM
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I think the pb2000 goes deep enough but i miss the punch over 50hz.
Do you Think dual psa S1811 Will go as deep as the dual pb2000 becouse im happy whit the pb2000 there..?
Have you experiment with REW to see what your freq response looks like? Its possible you are sitting in a null zone and not feeling those frequencies. I used to have that same problem til I moved my subs around and added 3rd sub. But I never got that chest kick til I put the sub nearfield right behind my seating. Have you tried that yet?
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post #54 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
I think the pb2000 goes deep enough but i miss the punch over 50hz.
Do you Think dual psa S1811 Will go as deep as the dual pb2000 becouse im happy whit the pb2000 there..?

Hi Jaxon,

I think that this question has been answered for you several times now. I know that I answered it on another thread. Yes! The V1801's will definitely go low enough, with enough SPL, in a small room like yours. There is an extensive article on "room gain" in Section VII of the Guide, linked in my signature. It will explain how room gain works in detail.

Briefly, small rooms amplify low-frequencies much more than large rooms do. But, they don't amplify mid-bass frequencies in the same way that they do low-frequencies. Mid-bass frequencies benefit from having a subwoofer near a wall (that is called boundary gain) and both small and large rooms will obtain that boundary gain about equally.

So, in a small room (such as your ~1400^3 room) you won't have any trouble at all in getting plenty of low-frequency sound and tactile sensations--low rumbling sounds and sensations--from a couple of good ported subs. That is because the room itself will amplify your low-frequencies with either PB2000's or with V1811's. But, if you want more mid-bass chest punch, then you will need subwoofers which are specifically stronger in those mid-bass frequencies. That is why you keep getting the same advice to buy V1811's, over-and-over on multiple threads.

I know that some of this is new to you, and that you are just trying to understand and to seek reassurance. But, the advice isn't going to change, and you can trust it. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] If you want more mid-bass kick (chest punch) while still having enough low-bass in your ~1400^3 room, then you should send your PB2000's back and buy dual V1811's. You will like the result!

Again, just for the record, I am a satisfied SVS owner, as are several others who have given you the same advice to exchange your SVS subs for PSA V1811's. We are all simply trying to be objective here about what will best help you to achieve your goals and preferences. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Regards,
Mike
Yhe i hear you, skip the thinking of seald subbs S1811/Sb16-ultra and go for the PSA V1811..😆😆😂😂&#x1f60 0;😀
In Think i order a couple of them now and try them out and stop asking qustions. Thanks do for answear my qustion over and over again..🙂😉

Best regards
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post #55 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
I think the pb2000 goes deep enough but i miss the punch over 50hz.
Do you Think dual psa S1811 Will go as deep as the dual pb2000 becouse im happy whit the pb2000 there..?
Have you experiment with REW to see what your freq response looks like? Its possible you are sitting in a null zone and not feeling those frequencies. I used to have that same problem til I moved my subs around and added 3rd sub. But I never got that chest kick til I put the sub nearfield right behind my seating. Have you tried that yet?
Jepp i have one nerfield and have tried diffrent positions.
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post #56 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:53 PM
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Dual Captivator 1400.

Mic drop.
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post #57 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 04:59 PM
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Dual Captivator 1400.

Mic drop.


See my PM about this recommendation


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post #58 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 05:07 PM
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A ported sub won’t get you more chest kick than sealed unless it is tuned at 40-50hz. Chest kick is in the 40s and higher range. The advantage of ported is near tune, and the PSA subs are tuned in the teens. A sealed dual 18 PSA will have 6 dB more than the single driver ported in the chest kick area. Now maybe we are talking different frequencies. The ported will have the advantage from tune to 25hz or so, depending on the tune.
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post #59 of 69 Old 06-29-2018, 05:39 PM
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A ported sub won’t get you more chest kick than sealed unless it is tuned at 40-50hz. Chest kick is in the 40s and higher range. The advantage of ported is near tune, and the PSA subs are tuned in the teens. A sealed dual 18 PSA will have 6 dB more than the single driver ported in the chest kick area. Now maybe we are talking different frequencies. The ported will have the advantage from tune to 25hz or so, depending on the tune.

Hi,

I always value your input, but you are late to the party on this one. The OP is getting exactly the low-bass SPL and tactile sensations that he wants in his ~1400^3 room, with his dual PB2000's, but he wants more chest punch. To keep that same ULF SPL and TR, he will still need to have ported subs. He just needs to have ported subs which produce proportionately more mid-bass SPL than the PB2000's do. The V1811's will do that. In fact, they will produce a lot more. And, the Room Size Control on the V1811's will let the OP add as much sub boost as he wants without over-emphasizing the low-frequencies in proportion to the mid-bass he is looking for.

It is worth noting that the V1811 produces 3db more SPL than the S1811 from 31.5Hz to 50Hz, and 1db more SPL from 63Hz to 100Hz. So, if the OP trades his PB2000's for dual V1811's, he will maintain the sound and tactile sensations he likes in the low-bass frequencies, while increasing his available SPL in the mid-bass frequencies. That should result in the increased chest punch he is looking for. And, the ported 1811's will give up no mid-bass SPL at all compared to the sealed 1811's. In fact, they will have the slightest advantage in mid-bass SPL. This is directly from the PSA performance charts.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 06-29-2018 at 05:42 PM.
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post #60 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 08:32 AM
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I understand, but going from a ported 12 to sealed dual 18s will gain both. The dual 18s will have the most chest kick of all. I have a 1430 cubic foot concrete bunker as well. If he is going single 18 whether sealed or ported than I agree, go for the ported.

Yes, I would take dual ported 18s(tuned low) over a dual sealed of the same caliber.
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Last edited by MKtheater; 06-30-2018 at 08:39 AM.
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