Dual PSA S3600i vs. dual SVS PB13-Ultras – Finding bass nirvana and lessons learned - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I understand, but going from a ported 12 to sealed dual 18s will gain both. The dual 18s will have the most chest kick of all. I have a 1430 cubic foot concrete bunker as well. If he is going single 18 whether sealed or ported than I agree, go for the ported.

Yes, I would take dual ported 18s(tuned low) over a dual sealed of the same caliber.

I remember your concrete bunker, and enjoyed reading about your experiments with both sealed and ported subs. We are actually saying the same thing here. He has dual PB2000's now and wants to upgrade for more chest punch. Dual V1811's will give him even better low-bass, along with about 9db more mid-bass SPL. Win-Win!

Regards,
Mike
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #62 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I understand, but going from a ported 12 to sealed dual 18s will gain both. The dual 18s will have the most chest kick of all. I have a 1430 cubic foot concrete bunker as well. If he is going single 18 whether sealed or ported than I agree, go for the ported.

Yes, I would take dual ported 18s(tuned low) over a dual sealed of the same caliber.

I remember your concrete bunker, and enjoyed reading about your experiments with both sealed and ported subs. We are actually saying the same thing here. He has dual PB2000's now and wants to upgrade for more chest punch. Dual V1811's will give him even better low-bass, along with about 9db more mid-bass SPL. Win-Win! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Regards,
Mike
Mike it was a guy ho recomended dual PSA S3000i/S3010 over dual psa V1811 he thougt they got lower and have more punch then dual V1811. Sorry asking again..:-) Do you have any messurements for the S1811/V1811 and S3000i/V3010..?

I also have the 1450 concreat bunker..:-)

I talked whit Tom at PSA and he also Recomended seald subbs for my room becouse its so smal and he suggested S3000i/S3010 or maybe S1800. Its a shame that i cant test them in my room and return them if they dont fit my needs becouse i have to ship from England Live in europe.

What did he ended up whit..?

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post #63 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I understand, but going from a ported 12 to sealed dual 18s will gain both. The dual 18s will have the most chest kick of all. I have a 1430 cubic foot concrete bunker as well. If he is going single 18 whether sealed or ported than I agree, go for the ported.

Yes, I would take dual ported 18s(tuned low) over a dual sealed of the same caliber.
I have dual pb2000 now
What did you end up whit..?

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post #64 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Mike it was a guy ho recomended dual PSA S3000i/S3010 over dual psa V1811 he thougt they got lower and have more punch then dual V1811. Sorry asking again..:-) Do you have any messurements for the S1811/V1811 and S3000i/V3010..?

I also have the 1450 concreat bunker..:-)

I talked whit Tom at PSA and he also Recomended seald subbs for my room becouse its so smal and he suggested S3000i/S3010 or maybe S1800. Its a shame that i cant test them in my room and return them if they dont fit my needs becouse i have to ship from England Live in europe.

What did he ended up whit..?

This is a complicated subject which I'm not sure that everyone understands the same way. Sealed S3010's can produce even more mid-bass SPL than the V1811's will. But, the V1811's will already be roughly twice as loud in the mid-bass as your PB2000's. So, in my opinion, the V1811's will give you plenty of mid-bass chest punch.

But, if you go with sealed subs, you will be giving up some of the low-bass tactile sensations that you are used to. Yes, you would have sufficient low-bass SPL with large sealed subs, but you would be giving up some of the low-bass rumble that you feel now with your PB2000's. That low-bass tactile response (TR) is not just the product of SPL. Ported subwoofers feel different down low, because the ports themselves move air, and that adds to the tactile sensation.

Since you are already happy with the low-frequency SPL and tactile sensations, I wouldn't try to fix something that isn't broken. I would stay with ported subs, which you already know that you like. What I would do, though, is to find ported subs which will give you more chest punch, and that is where the V1811's come in. They will give you what you are used to down low (and a little more of it) and they will give you a lot more of the chest punch you are looking for. That's the Win-Win I was talking about.

MKtheater can answer your question for himself if/when he comes back to the thread. But, at one time, he had several large sealed subs in his 1400^3 concrete bunker. And, he was able to get tremendous output levels and low-frequency extension. But, he missed having the tactile sensations that ported subs provided. As you can see from his signature, he moved to large ported subs. If I remember correctly, he did that specifically to get the low-frequency tactile sensations that we are talking about.

A lot of people just look at subwoofers' performance in terms of SPL. But, for those of us who enjoy the tactile sensations of bass, the SPL that subs produce is not the only thing that is important. Ported subs produce much more tangible tactile sensations down low than sealed subs do. And, PSA ported subs deliberately concentrate more SPL in the mid-bass range where you will feel chest punch. For your specific situation, I believe that V1811's will be the perfect solution.

I also wish you could audition some subwoofers, but honestly the fact that you can't is why I am being so careful. I am recommending that you stay with the low-bass that you already like, and just add subwoofers that will give you more mid-bass.

Since you are still hesitant, however, I will make one other suggestion that will cost less and present less risk. Why don't you buy a Behringer B1200D subwoofer? It is a ported sub, with a tuning point slightly above 50Hz. That makes it extremely powerful in the mid-bass range. And, that mid-bass range is where it was designed to be used.

You could position it right behind your listening chair, and it would supply you with a lot of additional chest punch. That way, you could add the chest punch you want while still keeping your PB2000's for the full-range and low-bass. A number of people on the forum have tried these little subs with excellent results, and they aren't expensive. A number of places carry them on the Internet. Here's one:

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B12.../dp/B00E87OMNC

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #65 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaxon1 View Post
Ok so you Think even do my room is small and seald 1450Cubic feet. its better to go whit a ported subwoofer then seald..? Whant that punch over 50hz Most.. 🙂
In that size room I would go dual 3010. Mid-upper bass slam will be breath taking and you will get some good cabin gain to make use of the 3010's extension.
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post #66 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 12:40 PM
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Dual PSA S3600i vs. dual SVS PB13-Ultras – Finding bass nirvana and lessons learned

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
This is a complicated subject which I'm not sure that everyone understands the same way. Sealed S3010's can produce even more mid-bass SPL than the V1811's will. But, the V1811's will already be roughly twice as loud in the mid-bass as your PB2000's. So, in my opinion, the V1811's will give you plenty of mid-bass chest punch.

But, if you go with sealed subs, you will be giving up some of the low-bass tactile sensations that you are used to. Yes, you would have sufficient low-bass SPL with large sealed subs, but you would be giving up some of the low-bass rumble that you feel now with your PB2000's. That low-bass tactile response (TR) is not just the product of SPL. Ported subwoofers feel different down low, because the ports themselves move air, and that adds to the tactile sensation.

Since you are already happy with the low-frequency SPL and tactile sensations, I wouldn't try to fix something that isn't broken. I would stay with ported subs, which you already know that you like. What I would do, though, is to find ported subs which will give you more chest punch, and that is where the V1811's come in. They will give you what you are used to down low (and a little more of it) and they will give you a lot more of the chest punch you are looking for. That's the Win-Win I was talking about.

MKtheater can answer your question for himself if/when he comes back to the thread. But, at one time, he had several large sealed subs in his 1400^3 concrete bunker. And, he was able to get tremendous output levels and low-frequency extension. But, he missed having the tactile sensations that ported subs provided. As you can see from his signature, he moved to large ported subs. If I remember correctly, he did that specifically to get the low-frequency tactile sensations that we are talking about.

A lot of people just look at subwoofers' performance in terms of SPL. But, for those of us who enjoy the tactile sensations of bass, the SPL that subs produce is not the only thing that is important. Ported subs produce much more tangible tactile sensations down low than sealed subs do. And, PSA ported subs deliberately concentrate more SPL in the mid-bass range where you will feel chest punch. For your specific situation, I believe that V1811's will be the perfect solution.

I also wish you could audition some subwoofers, but honestly the fact that you can't is why I am being so careful. I am recommending that you stay with the low-bass that you already like, and just add subwoofers that will give you more mid-bass.

Since you are still hesitant, however, I will make one other suggestion that will cost less and present less risk. Why don't you buy a Behringer B1200D subwoofer? It is a ported sub, with a tuning point slightly above 50Hz. That makes it extremely powerful in the mid-bass range. And, that mid-bass range is where it was designed to be used.

You could position it right behind your listening chair, and it would supply you with a lot of additional chest punch. That way, you could add the chest punch you want while still keeping your PB2000's for the full-range and low-bass. A number of people on the forum have tried these little subs with excellent results, and they aren't expensive. A number of places carry them on the Internet. Here's one:

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B12.../dp/B00E87OMNC

Regards,
Mike


I would agree with Mike after having tested dual submersive HPs and dual V1801s in a 2100cuft room. My goal was also chest slam. The submersive are quite similar to the 3010. The ported has more TR and violence and impact to the base. I could tell if I was missing anything in the upper midbass frequencies between the submersive and the V1801s but could tell the difference in bass precision and impact even though I was getting extension down to 5hz in the room with the submersive. Yes you could theoretically get with sealed as well but would need more of them and that costs money and requires space.


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post #67 of 69 Old 06-30-2018, 12:55 PM
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Yes the ported is more tactile. However, if you go from dual ported 18 and get quad 18 with a LT built in it becomes just as tactile. The problem for me was tripping circuits because an LT requires much more power than the ported. If one does not trip breakers I would recommend the LT sealed because you get twice the output in the midbass. I am building a cap for my port and adding 4 more 18s because I have a more efficient amp with the available boost to try. If it still trips than I can take the port cap off and leave it.

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post #68 of 69 Old 07-01-2018, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zorax2 View Post
I would definitely go ported if you want more tactile feedback. While my dual S3600s are fantastic, I would absolutely go ported if I had the extra room to accommodate the added size (especially on concrete) of ported subs.


As a test, I put one of my S3600s right behind my theater chair and found that it had to be elevated to fire directly into my back to be worthwhile. I strongly considered trying to shoehorn some 15" or 18" subs in the very limited space behind my chairs but the Crowson's do a great job. Ideally, I'd have both the nearfield subs and the Crowsons but I just don't have the space.


After visiting @lukeamdman 's setup, I've also become a bass junkie. Get the biggest ported sub you can afford and then save up to buy one more for duals. Doing that, you'll never second guess your decision and will undoubtedly be thrilled with the results you'll get.
Do you regreat that you did not go for the ported again frome the pb13-ultra..?
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post #69 of 69 Old 07-01-2018, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you regreat that you did not go for the ported again frome the pb13-ultra..?

I have no regrets with dual S3600s - 4 18" drivers - they fit my space perfectly. That being said, I would have greatly preferred ported subs with the same 4 18" drivers if I would have been able to integrate them in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Actually, if I had room - I'd love to have at least 8 18" drivers and may at some point do that with two more S3600s. One to the left of my chairs to complement the one on the right side of my chairs and then stack to in my front corner. The flip side would that I had the ability to use ported, two ported subs would likely be just as good if not better at some frequencies than four sealed subs making the porteds a much better value proposition.
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