Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1681 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:06 PM
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Despite recalling this discussed somewhat, I tried to go back through the earlier pages to find this answer, but I was unsuccessful. Are people seeking to have their frequency response to be as flat as possible after adding the MBM? I've been integrating my subs and have been able to get a flatter response when I exclude the MBMs. I'm working on getting a flat response with the MBMs included, but are people trying to integrate their MBMs and obtain a flat response or simply obtaining a flat response and then adding the MBMs to that?
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post #1682 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:18 PM
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^^ are you saying your FR is less flat with the MBMs? Most if not all the graphs i have seen here has flatter FR with the MBM added whether the system was calibrated with it or not.
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post #1683 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Doh! Well, thanks to you then!!
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post #1684 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadsmith013 View Post
right..i was just trying to determine what i would like best..nearfield or MBM... tough call.
It is a tough call, but I think that a couple of earlier posts framed the choice well. Nearfield full-range subs help somewhat at all frequencies, but are particularly helpful for increasing ULF, in my opinion. And, ported subs still deliver more low frequency impact and TR around their tuning point. So, a nearfield ported sub, for instance, tuned very low, will definitely increase perceived ULF.

On the other hand, an MBM (or a pair, in this case) will produce more TR in the mid-bass, chest punch range. And again, ported enhances that effect, particularly near the tuning point. I think that someone earlier in the thread (unless I have my threads mixed up) characterized the difference as bang versus boom, with bang representing increased mid-bass, and boom representing increased ULF. I like that characterization.

Ideally, we would have ample amounts of both. But, that doesn't mean that we can't pick one to emphasize more, at any given point in time. So, which would you like to have more of right now?

Regards,
Mike
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post #1685 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ are you saying your FR is less flat with the MBMs? Most if not all the graphs i have seen here has flatter FR with the MBM added whether the system was calibrated with it or not.
I can get a relatively flat response with the MBMs included, but I'm seeing a reduction in the max output of the MBM with the PEQ, gain and delay settings that get me the flatter response.
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post #1686 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
Despite recalling this discussed somewhat, I tried to go back through the earlier pages to find this answer, but I was unsuccessful. Are people seeking to have their frequency response to be as flat as possible after adding the MBM? I've been integrating my subs and have been able to get a flatter response when I exclude the MBMs. I'm working on getting a flat response with the MBMs included, but are people trying to integrate their MBMs and obtain a flat response or simply obtaining a flat response and then adding the MBMs to that?
Most graphs I've seen posted in this thread look like they dip down 2-5db in the 50 to 100ish area (with no mbm added) compared to 50hz and below (a bit of a house curve) and then the mbm fills in the slightly dipped area to give a flatter response all the way across. Not all, but most iirc.

I like mine pretty flat from my crossover (90ish) all the way down, then raise the whole thing up with sub trim usually about 6-10db hot or so instead of a rising house curve. Just personal preference I guess. That's the way mine is without the mbm added in and then the mbm raises it just a little bit in the 50-90 area, but not much. That's probably why my 1200d added in only adds little bit more punch to what I'm already getting with the triple NF's 18's right behind me. It does help a bit though. If I get the level to high on the mbm though, it just gets boomy with to much of a rise in the FR in that area.

I've thought about lowering the 50-90hz area a bit on the subs only (no mbm) and then turning the gain up a little bit more on the mbm to fill it in back to flat. But I'm really happy with chest slam so I haven't tried that yet to see if it would make much if any difference. But being ported in that area it may.

So in answer to your question, I've done the latter - added in the MBM after obtaining a flat response with all other subs post Audy.
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post #1687 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 05:15 PM
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I just had another bass nirvana moment. I made some very small gain adjustments on 4 of my large subs. The four that have plate amps. I left the MBM gain alone on both of the 1200D's. I also left the gain on my pro amp that powers two large hybrid 15" subs that are rolled off at 40hz alone. Then I lowered my subwoofer channel in my AVR by 2db. So an overall gain match channel adjustment. I'm still testing music and it hits hard. I'll be watching a movie in a bit.

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post #1688 of 3120 Old 01-06-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Most graphs I've seen posted in this thread look like they dip down 2-5db in the 50 to 100ish area (with no mbm added) compared to 50hz and below (a bit of a house curve) and then the mbm fills in the slightly dipped area to give a flatter response all the way across. Not all, but most iirc.
Yep, that's exactly what adding the B1200 did to my response. The MBM helps bump up my 40-90Hz a few dB flattening the mid/upper bass response. I have a house curve that's plus 3 to 5dB below 40Hz.

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post #1689 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 09:10 AM
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Almost ready for a lil MBM testing tonight




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post #1690 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 09:27 AM
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@bouf0010 - Looks good. Could you post some side pics too?
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post #1691 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
@bouf0010 - Looks good. Could you post some side pics too?


Here you go!




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post #1692 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 02:13 PM
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Smile

Just finished hooking everything up, two B1200D beside my couch (I already got to sealed 18" subs), and did a few measurements with no eq, phase or level adjustments. It looks really promising helping my frequency response.
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post #1693 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
It is a tough call, but I think that a couple of earlier posts framed the choice well. Nearfield full-range subs help somewhat at all frequencies, but are particularly helpful for increasing ULF, in my opinion. And, ported subs still deliver more low frequency impact and TR around their tuning point. So, a nearfield ported sub, for instance, tuned very low, will definitely increase perceived ULF.

On the other hand, an MBM (or a pair, in this case) will produce more TR in the mid-bass, chest punch range. And again, ported enhances that effect, particularly near the tuning point. I think that someone earlier in the thread (unless I have my threads mixed up) characterized the difference as bang versus boom, with bang representing increased mid-bass, and boom representing increased ULF. I like that characterization.

Ideally, we would have ample amounts of both. But, that doesn't mean that we can't pick one to emphasize more, at any given point in time. So, which would you like to have more of right now?

Regards,
Mike
great response..I really appreciate that...Im thinking the midbass and TR...Im getting plenty of ULF from my 2 18's up front. Just wanted to make sure I would get good results putting them beside my couch, as opposed to behind..Looks like the poster above @mR_Mo has gotten good results and looks like he is in the same boat as me..
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post #1694 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 03:04 PM
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Now phase and levelmatched. No eq so I'm very happy so far. I haven't had the time to run dirac yet so I haven't listened to them.
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post #1695 of 3120 Old 01-07-2017, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouf0010 View Post
Almost ready for a lil MBM testing tonight


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Hey @bouf0010 I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and get another opinion to see if I'm on the right track with my PA380 plans. Will you be able to do a FR sweep, run REW or something with just the MBMs to have an objective analysis of what they're putting out? I don't have the mic to do that yet, so I've just been using an SPL meter evaluating 10, 15, 20, 25Hz .... 120Hz in steps for different configurations and settings.

Looking forward to your evaluations.

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post #1696 of 3120 Old 01-09-2017, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mR_Mo View Post
Now phase and levelmatched. No eq so I'm very happy so far. I haven't had the time to run dirac yet so I haven't listened to them.
Hmmm...seems like you are relying on the 1200D to do a bit too much heavy lifting (+20-25dB between 60-120hz). If I was you, I would try to optimize placement of your 18s a bit more before trying to add in the 1200D. You are going to run out of headroom quickly in that frequency range if you are relying solely on the 1200D to bring it up.
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post #1697 of 3120 Old 01-09-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Hmmm...seems like you are relying on the 1200D to do a bit too much heavy lifting (+20-25dB between 60-120hz). If I was you, I would try to optimize placement of your 18s a bit more before trying to add in the 1200D. You are going to run out of headroom quickly in that frequency range if you are relying solely on the 1200D to bring it up.
Yes, this^^^
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post #1698 of 3120 Old 01-09-2017, 11:29 AM
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Nearfield Ported MBM for Increased Mid-Bass Tactile Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Hmmm...seems like you are relying on the 1200D to do a bit too much heavy lifting (+20-25dB between 60-120hz). If I was you, I would try to optimize placement of your 18s a bit more before trying to add in the 1200D. You are going to run out of headroom quickly in that frequency range if you are relying solely on the 1200D to bring it up.


Yes, I see your point, but I don't think that'll be a problem. I have a small room, only 11.8x9.3 feet. So I do not have any choice in placing my 18s anywhere else, they are very big for my small room. I don't think the two 1200D's will have a problem either because of the room size, but we'll see.
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post #1699 of 3120 Old 01-10-2017, 03:22 PM
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Those with two 1200s:
Do you have them facing the back of the seat(s) or are they facing each other?
Michael

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post #1700 of 3120 Old 01-10-2017, 03:59 PM
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I have one on both ends of my couch. The ports are facing the front wall. That seems to work really well in my situation.

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post #1701 of 3120 Old 01-10-2017, 06:55 PM
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My pair is sitting upside down in the back corners toed in pointing at my seat.
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post #1702 of 3120 Old 01-11-2017, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazle View Post
Hey @bouf0010 I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and get another opinion to see if I'm on the right track with my PA380 plans. Will you be able to do a FR sweep, run REW or something with just the MBMs to have an objective analysis of what they're putting out? I don't have the mic to do that yet, so I've just been using an SPL meter evaluating 10, 15, 20, 25Hz .... 120Hz in steps for different configurations and settings.

Looking forward to your evaluations.

Brazle
Sorry this took so long - Here is a graph with my front subs, nearfields and mbms flanking the couch. This is no eq - just level(ish) matched. My onkyo sets a lpf at 120hz that i cant remove Purple line is the mbms - these things kick a$$. Im going to be upgrading my mains to fusion 15s much sooner because of these.
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post #1703 of 3120 Old 01-11-2017, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bouf0010 View Post
Sorry this took so long - Here is a graph with my front subs, nearfields and mbms flanking the couch. This is no eq - just level(ish) matched. My onkyo sets a lpf at 120hz that i cant remove Purple line is the mbms - these things kick a$$. Im going to be upgrading my mains to fusion 15s much sooner because of these.
Nice. If you are considering the Fusion 15s, you may want to also consider the newly, yet to be released DIYSG Titan 615s from the same designer as the F15. They look like beasts.
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I just finished watching Deepwater Horizon. All I can say is Wow. Continuous explosions with shrapnel flying through the room through the surround channels. It has some great LFE and midbass. Then I followed the movie with a music listing session. I'm very pleased with the performance of the two 1200d's in my system.

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post #1705 of 3120 Old 01-12-2017, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicTorious1 View Post
Nice. If you are considering the Fusion 15s, you may want to also consider the newly, yet to be released DIYSG Titan 615s from the same designer as the F15. They look like beasts.


I wish I had the room for those - I'm not rocking a at screen at the moment due to the lack of a dedicated room. The fusions will just fit on small stands under my screen


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post #1706 of 3120 Old 01-12-2017, 01:06 PM
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Finally got replacement Behringer. Put it behind couch, played U-571 depth charge scene, got my booty shaken, etc etc. I got a tiny dip at 55 Hz because of adding MBM, but doesn't seem to ruin anything sonically. It definitely sounds bad if you overboost it. Imo, any kind of significant boost or correction requires some external help like miniDSP, and possibly better MBM.

Very happy with performance though. Still gotta try it flipped upside down and lifted up to chest level.
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I just dropped my current sub directly behind my seat about a inch away !!!!!!! I want MOAR! I am thinking custom enclosure now just for this..........a couple a 12" ported directly behind each seat and a 15 or 18 in the middle of the 2......I have a double recliner. I have my current 12 inch ported and its tune is approx 60-75hz, is where it gets a massive tactile response directly in between the back of the double recliner and it shakes the seats pretty good. I am thinking a parts express build, with a inuke just specificly for tactile duty.....
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post #1708 of 3120 Old 01-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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I was thinking of trying the 10" version of this for an Ultimax I have currently sealed:
http://www.parts-express.com/goldwoo...binet--260-630
But I'm not much of a diy guy.
Michael
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post #1709 of 3120 Old 01-12-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I was thinking of trying the 10" version of this for an Ultimax I have currently sealed:
http://www.parts-express.com/goldwoo...binet--260-630
But I'm not much of a diy guy.
Michael
C'mon Michael you know you could do this, I have faith in you my friend........
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post #1710 of 3120 Old 01-13-2017, 05:07 AM
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I'm okay with flatpacks now (the Ultimax box came out better than the Fusions), but I won't be any good with a 4 x 8 panel, so "throwing a box together" isn't for me.
And I can't pay $7 to ship a $30 box. Just not in my genes.
A friend of mine was going to order a PE speaker kit, and the ported box (which happens to be on sale) was going to be part of that order, but something came up and that fell through.
It would have been an interesting experiment.
I'll settle for moving my two 1200s around this weekend.
I appreciate the encouragement, though.
Michael
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