SVS PB-1000 worth buying? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 82 Old 01-23-2020, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by New7.1 View Post
Whelp, after long deliberation and being cyber bullied towards SVS in every corner of the internet, I’ve decided to go Klipsch SPL-120. I expect it to have more output and also play lower than the SVS. I played the YouTube reviews in my car, which has a system we need not talk about, that plays pretty low Using my cell phone and can tell I’ll like the SPL-120 better. I learned a lot about why I gave up message boards years ago. Might’ve been a better choice than when I quit smoking. I shall go on in peace and quiet with about 118 db’s of sound.


So you evaluated two HT subs by watching YouTube videos of them IN YOUR CAR? The bass you heard was through the sub in your car. How can that tell you anything from that?
118db’s? Sure.
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post #32 of 82 Old 01-24-2020, 07:14 PM
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118db is terrible marketing that unfortunately people fall for. It's like those dollar stores that have terrible stereos that say 5,000 watts peak on them for $39.99. Anyway enjoy your Klipsch sub. If it makes you happy that's all that matters.
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post #33 of 82 Old 01-24-2020, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sn1per666 View Post
118db is terrible marketing that unfortunately people fall for. It's like those dollar stores that have terrible stereos that say 5,000 watts peak on them for $39.99. Anyway enjoy your Klipsch sub. If it makes you happy that's all that matters.


Oh man, my hair used to start on FIRE when I’d walk through the store and see those.
(Monster truck announce voice)
“5 channel, 5000 watt super mega blaster 2000 home theater, audiophile sound”. Lmao.
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post #34 of 82 Old 01-25-2020, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
The SPL-120 is only rated down to 25 Hz while the SVS is down to 19 and measures as such, so not sure why you feel the Klipsch will go lower. The 120 may very well get louder but not sure it will be cleaner volume.

Regarding the push for SVS or other companies it's generally because they are proven products from companies who specialize in subwoofers. Doesn't mean that someone won't be happy with a Klipsch or other brand but most find the SVS-type companies to provide better performance for the money.
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but the testing that gives the frequency response is a joke. The actual output goes above and below the silly open area test that they get the frequency numbers from. However, the PB-1000 drops off a cliff at 19hz. Most subs don’t. They will play much lower than the minimum rating. It seems the PB-1000 is designed to play flat down to 19hz, but dies there. Most other subs will go way lower than 19hz, but will get less volume as they go down. It only takes a little accent of 7 to 10hz to give a deeper sounding effect to movies. This fact escapes the frequency test, but not people’s ears and senses. That’s a main reason why I’ll pass on the SVS. I’m sure their subs are good and I’m also sure from the 2000’s up, they are great. For my purposes a PB-2000 is just too big for my living room. I also know that my room will increase the effect of those very low notes. I can’t picture losing that. A 10db drop in volume doesn’t mean the sound below 20hz is gone. If anything, the sound below 20hz doesn’t need to be as loud to drastically affect what we hear and feel. I know people say distortion comes into play and distortion is bad. I don’t think so. Any real explosion is full of distortion. Destroy the distortion and the sound becomes less real. It’s a complicated set of problems, but I don’t want to lose that sub 20hz content, inside my room, for the sake of a flat response down to 19hz by machine in an open area. The sound below 20hz is real, it’s there and you can hear and feel it, even in most subs rated only to 29hz.

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post #35 of 82 Old 01-25-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by New7.1 View Post
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but the testing that gives the frequency response is a joke. The actual output goes above and below the silly open area test that they get the frequency numbers from. However, the PB-1000 drops off a cliff at 19hz. Most subs don’t. They will play much lower than the minimum rating. It seems the PB-1000 is designed to play flat down to 19hz, but dies there. Most other subs will go way lower than 19hz, but will get less volume as they go down. It only takes a little accent of 7 to 10hz to give a deeper sounding effect to movies. This fact escapes the frequency test, but not people’s ears and senses. That’s a main reason why I’ll pass on the SVS. I’m sure their subs are good and I’m also sure from the 2000’s up, they are great. For my purposes a PB-2000 is just too big for my living room. I also know that my room will increase the effect of those very low notes. I can’t picture losing that. A 10db drop in volume doesn’t mean the sound below 20hz is gone. If anything, the sound below 20hz doesn’t need to be as loud to drastically affect what we hear and feel. I know people say distortion comes into play and distortion is bad. I don’t think so. Any real explosion is full of distortion. Destroy the distortion and the sound becomes less real. It’s a complicated set of problems, but I don’t want to lose that sub 20hz content, inside my room, for the sake of a flat response down to 19hz by machine in an open area. The sound below 20hz is real, it’s there and you can hear and feel it, even in most subs rated only to 29hz.


Yep.
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post #36 of 82 Old 01-25-2020, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New7.1 View Post
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but the testing that gives the frequency response is a joke. The actual output goes above and below the silly open area test that they get the frequency numbers from. However, the PB-1000 drops off a cliff at 19hz. Most subs don’t. They will play much lower than the minimum rating. It seems the PB-1000 is designed to play flat down to 19hz, but dies there. Most other subs will go way lower than 19hz, but will get less volume as they go down. It only takes a little accent of 7 to 10hz to give a deeper sounding effect to movies. This fact escapes the frequency test, but not people’s ears and senses. That’s a main reason why I’ll pass on the SVS. I’m sure their subs are good and I’m also sure from the 2000’s up, they are great. For my purposes a PB-2000 is just too big for my living room. I also know that my room will increase the effect of those very low notes. I can’t picture losing that. A 10db drop in volume doesn’t mean the sound below 20hz is gone. If anything, the sound below 20hz doesn’t need to be as loud to drastically affect what we hear and feel. I know people say distortion comes into play and distortion is bad. I don’t think so. Any real explosion is full of distortion. Destroy the distortion and the sound becomes less real. It’s a complicated set of problems, but I don’t want to lose that sub 20hz content, inside my room, for the sake of a flat response down to 19hz by machine in an open area. The sound below 20hz is real, it’s there and you can hear and feel it, even in most subs rated only to 29hz.
You are aware that, due to the physics of ports and how they impact driver performance, literally every ported sub 'drops off a cliff' below its port tuning frequency, right?
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post #37 of 82 Old 01-25-2020, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KSpan View Post
You are aware that, due to the physics of ports and how they impact driver performance, literally every ported sub 'drops off a cliff' below its port tuning frequency, right?


You must’ve missed the post he made about evaluating those subs via YouTube on his phone through his car system, which was too weak to mention but good enough to evaluate two HT subwoofers.
Sorry, but not sorry, post #34 is an alien language and insulting.
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post #38 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
You must’ve missed the post he made about evaluating those subs via YouTube on his phone through his car system, which was too weak to mention but good enough to evaluate two HT subwoofers.
Sorry, but not sorry, post #34 is an alien language and insulting.
Are you suggesting that listening to a compressed recording of a recording, through equipment which isn't either of the 2 subs in question, in an environment which bears no relation to that in which the sub will be used, is somehow without merit as a decision making process?

So cynical
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post #39 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
You must’ve missed the post he made about evaluating those subs via YouTube on his phone through his car system, which was too weak to mention but good enough to evaluate two HT subwoofers.
Sorry, but not sorry, post #34 is an alien language and insulting.
You can do it. It’s no different than if I’m cooking food, I’ll know what the ingredients will taste like when cooked together at the levels of each ingredient added. They are all going to taste different by themselves uncooked than they do all cooked together. Hearing works the same way. You can tell what the recording of a recording through compression will sound like, the same exact way.
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post #40 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 07:08 AM
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You are aware that, due to the physics of ports and how they impact driver performance, literally every ported sub 'drops off a cliff' below its port tuning frequency, right?
I don’t think any decent sub on the market drops off the same way the PB-1000 does. I would even venture a guess, that the amp is tuned to actually eliminate the sound below 20hz, so that it can use its power to keep the 19 to 29hz content flat. Just a guess, but if that’s right, it’s a great design. Just not right for me.
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post #41 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Speedie95 View Post
Are you suggesting that listening to a compressed recording of a recording, through equipment which isn't either of the 2 subs in question, in an environment which bears no relation to that in which the sub will be used, is somehow without merit as a decision making process?



So cynical


Well jeez when you say it like that, I’M the one who sounds crazy.
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post #42 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by New7.1 View Post
You can do it. It’s no different than if I’m cooking food, I’ll know what the ingredients will taste like when cooked together at the levels of each ingredient added. They are all going to taste different by themselves uncooked than they do all cooked together. Hearing works the same way. You can tell what the recording of a recording through compression will sound like, the same exact way.


No. No you can’t. And it is not in any way the same as cooking. Your pallet is NOT the same everyday and will change based on what you’ve eaten that day.
So you’re telling me that even though you’ve NEVER heard the two subs in question, that you can somehow mentally decode and decipher how they’ll sound from a recording in an unknown room with an unknown mic through a cellphone into a cars audio system?

You said,
“You can tell what the recording of a recording through compression will sound like, the exact same way”
I need a decoder ring...

It’s your money, but every reason you’ve given for choosing the way you did, is at best, counterintuitive to known practices that have been known for a long long time.
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post #43 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 01:37 PM
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No. No you can’t. And it is not in any way the same as cooking. Your pallet is NOT the same everyday and will change based on what you’ve eaten that day.
So you’re telling me that even though you’ve NEVER heard the two subs in question, that you can somehow mentally decode and decipher how they’ll sound from a recording in an unknown room with an unknown mic through a cellphone into a cars audio system?

You said,
“You can tell what the recording of a recording through compression will sound like, the exact same way”
I need a decoder ring...

It’s your money, but every reason you’ve given for choosing the way you did, is at best, counterintuitive to known practices that have been known for a long long time.
These practices are a rough guide, that fails more often than it succeeds. Otherwise there wouldn’t be so much to talk about here. And so many people wouldn’t need 2 subs in all of these small rooms. I did also read literally every article, review, thread and post I could find everywhere. The last thing I want is sound that is so tight, clear and distortion free, that I can’t even hear it. Or a sub that is so awesome that it’ll take 2 for $1,000 to match one worth $100.
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post #44 of 82 Old 01-26-2020, 02:00 PM
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Sorry to burst your bubble

I measured my friends Dual Klispch SW-112 (300w ram 600w peak) 25hz rated.(Which is the older versions of the SPL120 but performs identically) and it falls off a cliff after 25hz.

Compared to my outlaw ultra x12 which measured 5-7 db more across the FR and 15dB + more at 15hz.
The outlaws are frequently on sale for $500-$550. HSU VTF2 MK5($600) measure almost identically to the X12's.

If you were after max extension /$$ then the Rythmik LVX12 would of been the way to go.

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post #45 of 82 Old 01-28-2020, 03:01 PM
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If I may add, I’ve had bad experiences with port noise at certain frequencies with the klipsch in the past, that made me go away from ported for a while. No one is going to cyber bully you or have the rights to. You’re the master of your own wallet, home theater and your enjoyment. Maybe you found the klipsch to do better with your home acoustics/layout. Again there is no biblical rule for which one fits better in your room, but again, try playing the edge of tomorrow opening scene where an average subwoofer will just fall off where as the better ones will hold their own. PS Chuffing/port noise is a distortion, so though the output on SPL maybe maintained I wouldn’t count it as going low or performing well.
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post #46 of 82 Old 01-29-2020, 04:52 PM
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Sorry to burst your bubble

I measured my friends Dual Klispch SW-112 (300w ram 600w peak) 25hz rated.(Which is the older versions of the SPL120 but performs identically) and it falls off a cliff after 25hz.

Compared to my outlaw ultra x12 which measured 5-7 db more across the FR and 15dB + more at 15hz.
The outlaws are frequently on sale for $500-$550. HSU VTF2 MK5($600) measure almost identically to the X12's.

If you were after max extension /$$ then the Rythmik LVX12 would of been the way to go.
Well, it hasn’t arrived yet, but I’ll soon see....

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If I may add, I’ve had bad experiences with port noise at certain frequencies with the klipsch in the past, that made me go away from ported for a while. No one is going to cyber bully you or have the rights to. You’re the master of your own wallet, home theater and your enjoyment. Maybe you found the klipsch to do better with your home acoustics/layout. Again there is no biblical rule for which one fits better in your room, but again, try playing the edge of tomorrow opening scene where an average subwoofer will just fall off where as the better ones will hold their own. PS Chuffing/port noise is a distortion, so though the output on SPL maybe maintained I wouldn’t count it as going low or performing well.
Yeah, I also saw that in the PB-1000 vs SPL-100 video on YouTube. Great review, by the way.


It hasn’t arrived yet, but I shall soon see. I’m not too keen on test tones as a true measure of sound, the same way I’m skeptical of open field tests. The 30hz dead zone could actually cause some manufacturers to add noise to the sound to avoid the dead spots. My own trial and error testing indicates moving the speaker about an inch from the ideal spot can make 30hz disappear. But I also found that it doesn’t happen with all test tones. So I become skeptical. I cannot believe that I am hearing only distortion, because it couldn’t possibly be accurately lower if it were distortion. Even if it was, it would still be good, if the tone of the distortion sounds right. The crappy sub I’m using now gets 90+ dB between 25 and 15hz from 15 feet away. It can’t be distortion. But strangely, the dB literally is nearly the same from 1 meter as it is at 15’ - another reason I am skeptical of the claims I read. Because I find barely any difference in output level for low frequencies anywhere in the room. I actually ordered a true SPL Meter to confirm what my iPhone app has told me. Low frequency waves are so big that at 15’ they couldn’t lose power. So the 1 meter test, to me, is nonsense. I can’t believe you can get a higher reading at 1 meter than 3 meters, in someone’s house, unless it is cavernous.

In the end tests don’t mean as much to me as it sounds good with movies and the occasional music I might play. Plus, as it is with almost everything else, I do care what it looks like, too.

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post #47 of 82 Old 01-30-2020, 12:52 PM
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Well, it hasn’t arrived yet, but I’ll soon see....







Yeah, I also saw that in the PB-1000 vs SPL-100 video on YouTube. Great review, by the way.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLfZSOvOZ0



It hasn’t arrived yet, but I shall soon see. I’m not too keen on test tones as a true measure of sound, the same way I’m skeptical of open field tests. The 30hz dead zone could actually cause some manufacturers to add noise to the sound to avoid the dead spots. My own trial and error testing indicates moving the speaker about an inch from the ideal spot can make 30hz disappear. But I also found that it doesn’t happen with all test tones. So I become skeptical. I cannot believe that I am hearing only distortion, because it couldn’t possibly be accurately lower if it were distortion. Even if it was, it would still be good, if the tone of the distortion sounds right. The crappy sub I’m using now gets 90+ dB between 25 and 15hz from 15 feet away. It can’t be distortion. But strangely, the dB literally is nearly the same from 1 meter as it is at 15’ - another reason I am skeptical of the claims I read. Because I find barely any difference in output level for low frequencies anywhere in the room. I actually ordered a true SPL Meter to confirm what my iPhone app has told me. Low frequency waves are so big that at 15’ they couldn’t lose power. So the 1 meter test, to me, is nonsense. I can’t believe you can get a higher reading at 1 meter than 3 meters, in someone’s house, unless it is cavernous.



In the end tests don’t mean as much to me as it sounds good with movies and the occasional music I might play. Plus, as it is with almost everything else, I do care what it looks like, too.


Skeptical of field tests?
30hz dead zone?(what is this nonsense?)
Manufacturers adding noise to avoid dead spots?
All this skepticism(and fiction), but you’re gonna use an iPhone spl meter app, not mention the YouTube review thing. Do you really think an iPhone mic has a good enough response curve to accurately measure subwoofers? Everything in the above quote is fiction.
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post #48 of 82 Old 01-30-2020, 05:38 PM
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Skeptical of field tests?
30hz dead zone?(what is this nonsense?)
Manufacturers adding noise to avoid dead spots?
All this skepticism(and fiction), but you’re gonna use an iPhone spl meter app, not mention the YouTube review thing. Do you really think an iPhone mic has a good enough response curve to accurately measure subwoofers? Everything in the above quote is fiction.
Well I ordered it Tuesday night and received it Today Thursday morning. It plays clean down to 3hz. Thanks Worldwide stereo for the quick shipping! (Not affiliated in any way, only thing I ever ordered there)

If I can contribute one thing to anyone in the World looking to buy a subwoofer and reading through this stuff it is this: 99% of the advice you get from 99% of people who appear to sound like experts is wrong 99% of the time.

Please, anyone looking for honest advice do not believe anyone who says you need two subs. I am in a room that is 3,342‘ ^3, not counting the entry foyer, Behind the seating area, which puts the space over 3,500’ ^3.

This SPL-120 is waaaaaay overpowered for this space. It can be felt at a relatively low volume, in rooms far away, through the walls. At a moderate volume, it moves so much air it blows air on us like a fan from 15.5 feet away! So that said, even if a PB-1000 has less output, it still would have been plenty too powerful for this space.

I’m not directing this at any one person, but I literally got only bad advice on the internet. It’s too bad. I had to read through enough of the claims of everyone saying that the subs don’t play below the stats ratings, to just not take that advice seriously. I can say they definitely do.

Don’t be afraid to buy a major brand that they sell in major stores, either.

We watched Into the spider verse to test it out. It sounds great. And, yes, I know, the right front speaker is too close to the TV, it’s going to be moved this weekend. I spent last week repositioning the hard wired surrounds, which required patching and painting. The end table to the right will be moved. That is a 15.5’ distance. Anyone going 2 subs this size at less distance In a room this size is just crazy.
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post #49 of 82 Old 01-31-2020, 04:07 AM
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Have you experienced a SVS or ID sub in that room? If not then you can't say it was bad advice. Also if you actually meant to post 3hz instead of 30hz and were serious then I think we're done here.

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post #50 of 82 Old 01-31-2020, 04:23 AM
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I just want to thank everyone in this thread for an educational and entertaining read at 7:24 am.

In all seriousness though, glad you finally found something you like and have scratched the sub "itch"

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post #51 of 82 Old 01-31-2020, 09:20 AM
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Have you experienced a SVS or ID sub in that room? If not then you can't say it was bad advice. Also if you actually meant to post 3hz instead of 30hz and were serious then I think we're done here.


I did a spit take when I read 3hz. Definitely can’t measure that with an iPhone mic. I have a feeling this room is on a suspended floor with fairly low ceilings.
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post #52 of 82 Old 01-31-2020, 07:08 PM
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Have you experienced a SVS or ID sub in that room? If not then you can't say it was bad advice. Also if you actually meant to post 3hz instead of 30hz and were serious then I think we're done here.
Three. It plays 3 and you could literally count the 3 movements per second by eye. At moderate volume this was literally almost as much air movement as a fan.

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Originally Posted by DarkGSR View Post
I just want to thank everyone in this thread for an educational and entertaining read at 7:24 am.

In all seriousness though, glad you finally found something you like and have scratched the sub "itch"
Yes, thank you. And everyone else, even the advice I called “bad” still helped a lot.

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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
I did a spit take when I read 3hz. Definitely can’t measure that with an iPhone mic. I have a feeling this room is on a suspended floor with fairly low ceilings.
Nope. And unfortunately the SPL meter I received today says it only goes down to 31.5hz. So I’m out of luck on measurements. Almost makes me wonder if any device can measure from 0-19hz accurately in the environment?
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post #53 of 82 Old 02-01-2020, 10:22 AM
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Even if it can "play" a 3Hz note, it's certainly not going to be playing it at a meaningful SPL for it to make a tangible difference to the experience. It's a 10" ported subwoofer tuned probably around 30Hz (multiple octaves above 3Hz) considering it's rated down to 27Hz. A ported subwoofer drops off quite sharply below the port tune, so there's no way you're getting meaningful output at 3Hz which is wayyy below the port tune. How do you even "know" that it can play 3Hz as you said your SPL meter can't read capture such low frequencies? Can you measure the frequency response with REW or something and share the graph here? Doesn't matter if the mic can't capture such low frequencies as we're going to see a drop off on the graph well above 3Hz, which will be proof that you're not getting any meaningful output at 3Hz.
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post #54 of 82 Old 02-05-2020, 11:56 AM
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In a apartment? Don't even bother with a sub. If you use it you will majorly annoy your neighbors. Move somewhere else if you want loud home entertainment, then you can probably do as u please. Or better yet just use headphones, then play as loud as u want. Nothing worse than disrespectful neighbors.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelman99 View Post
In a apartment? Don't even bother with a sub. If you use it you will majorly annoy your neighbors. Move somewhere else if you want loud home entertainment, then you can probably do as u please. Or better yet just use headphones, then play as loud as u want. Nothing worse than disrespectful neighbors.

I beg to differ sir...... I live in an apartment {older construction plaster walls.... hanging pictures, etc is a PITA} and I have EVERYTHING in my sig in my LR. And yes I do watch at reference... The "trick" is to invite them to movie nights


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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
I beg to differ sir...... I live in an apartment {older construction plaster walls.... hanging pictures, etc is a PITA} and I have EVERYTHING in my sig in my LR. And yes I do watch at reference... The "trick" is to invite them to movie nights


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U must be either deaf ...or 22.

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Quote:
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U must be either deaf ...or 22.
Neither sir....


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Neither sir....


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I had a neighbor on the 5th floor of a 14 story high rise that planted his giant always on 24/7, boom box on the wall shared with my bedroom....not a happy time in my life. I lasted about 6 months . If u have neighbors that are "ok", you are fortunate.
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