Which sub to choose? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 82Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 09:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,217
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 9289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
This ^^ and hard to keep/design the sub size relatively small. The phrase one often hears when describing great bass is 'loud and deep', not just loud. Have you heard anyone complaining his sub plays TOO deep?
You don't hear bass below 20hz if its clean so not sure what you are getting at. The audible bass range where bass sounds deep is 30-40hz. ULF is a pressurization...if you are hearing anything then it is harmonics.
oneeyeblind and torii like this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ah_1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I didn't expect this thread to take off as much as it did. Thank you all who contributed, lots of useful information in this thread.


I should provide more insight about my room and what I'm looking for.


My theatre is in the basement with concrete flooring, covered by carpet. There also an opening at the staircase which is 62" x 88". Its also an odd shape, the last time I did my calculations I believed I came across 2800 cubic feet, somewhere in that ballpark.


I have a pretty flat frequency curve, unfortunately I do not have REW graph to show you all, but my spl meter, test tones and many configuration/equalization has helped me achieve a flat frequencies, from 30 to 120 +/- 2.5db. My Yamaha receiver doesn't allow me to equalize below 31hz, so my 20 hz frequencies are kind of wild lol, but I drop off pretty significantly below 20 hz. I plan to get a minidsp or a better equalizing software soon


Basically I'm looking for more output in the 15 to 20hz region, headroom and overall output.


I should add I'm from Canada, so unfortunately I have to deal with the exchange rate and can only afford one extra sub at this time. I'd love the Cap 218HT, but that damn thing is too deep!
oneeyeblind likes this.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
ah_1014 is offline  
post #63 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 10:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,217
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 9289
Well if you are looking for more 15-20hz output then the Cap1400 is more then likely going to have a slight advantage there. The key is how much output are you looking for? Reference capabilities down to 15hz?
oneeyeblind likes this.
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 11:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I should add I'm from Canada, so unfortunately I have to deal with the exchange rate and can only afford one extra sub at this time. I'd love the Cap 218HT, but that damn thing is too deep!
If you're in the GTA, you must demo my systems (dual sealed 24's and an othorn in the great room and 8 x 18" big ported subs in my basement HT). It will open your eyes at the DIY possibilities
chucky7 likes this.
lz7j is offline  
post #65 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 11:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
You don't hear bass below 20hz if its clean so not sure what you are getting at. The audible bass range where bass sounds deep is 30-40hz. ULF is a pressurization...if you are hearing anything then it is harmonics.
He wrote: "The phrase one often hears when describing great bass is 'loud and deep', not just loud".

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #66 of 93 Old 08-02-2016, 11:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 7,234
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3589 Post(s)
Liked: 2023
anything under 30hz is extremely overrated in an open room. but if you are chasing that goal, you are going to need more than 1 x 18 in sub.

and the difference between +/- 3 db isnt really a factor imo unless competing for a trophy...go with what makes you happy, but dont be stat happy, the room makes a huge difference in placement and what tje tuning point of a sub is for ported designs.
Billy p and basshead81 like this.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is offline  
post #67 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 12:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Looking at the JTR data-bass measurements it is clear that a lot of DSP massaging was done to produce the ±1dB 16-200Hz flat response. Being this flat I am not sure is a good thing in a room smaller than 3000 ft³. HSU seems to do something similar on their subs. PSA and Seaton seem to take a different approach with the DSP programming accounting in-room gains. Looking at the long term output compression measurements (in the review and on PSA's site), the JTR and PSA response curves look more similar than different. Too bad we don't have distortion numbers to accompany the PSA curve. I'm surprised this is even a close call with two 18" drivers vs one. It really seems to be a toss up based on the available info.

Based on Google images I prefer the look of the PSA. Much more imposing and looks good placed vertically or horizontally. PSA also gives an extra two years of warranty on the amp and they are reachable close to 366 days of the year.

The JTR has the more fully featured Speakerpower amp. XLR in/out, 12V trigger in/out for examples. However, do you need these?

My advice to the OP, use your two weeks optimizing your current system with a miniDSP, UMIK and REW. A SPL meter is no substitute, even if you feel like you've done a good job with the Rhythmiks. Take the time to truly dial things in properly before adding another sub into the mix.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #68 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 07:04 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,217
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 9289
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
He wrote: "The phrase one often hears when describing great bass is 'loud and deep', not just loud".
I know what he wrote and both sub's appear to do both well. You would hear +2db @ 50hz, you would not hear +2db @ 16hz if the sub is playing clean with no distortion. Aside from that nobody references Sub 20hz bass as deep...that is Infrasonic or Ultra low bass.

Btw, That +2db stuff is based on your beloved chart. We do not really know what the differences are...different measuring gear and weather climates can account for a 2db swing.

Last edited by basshead81; 08-03-2016 at 07:10 AM.
basshead81 is offline  
post #69 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 10:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I know what he wrote and both sub's appear to do both well. You would hear +2db @ 50hz, you would not hear +2db @ 16hz if the sub is playing clean with no distortion. Aside from that nobody references Sub 20hz bass as deep...that is Infrasonic or Ultra low bass.


He is saying that people describe great bass as "loud and deep", not just "loud". He does not mean that people would "hear" great bass. Of course 50 Hz can be heard but not 16 Hz. tvuong has probably heard more systems than many of us ever will combined.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #70 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 10:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Btw, That +2db stuff is based on your beloved chart. We do not really know what the differences are...different measuring gear and weather climates can account for a 2db swing.
And Cap 1400's are from DB, but V3600i's numbers on my chart are from.... drum roll... you got it! PSA! I can easily figure out PSA's sub output @ 16, 20, 25... Hz respectively from the 16~25 Hz, 20~ 31.5 Hz, and 31.5~50 Hz averages on PSA. Are you saying it's my fault that DB has not tested V3600i and that only numbers from PSA are available?

2 dB swing, you say? Isn't that equivalent to .3 sub according to the PSA product comparison chart? So it's OK for PSA to use the 2dB to sell it's products but it's not OK for me to use it?

Also, how do you account for the 7 dB difference @ 21~31.5 Hz between PSA's numbers and the unadjusted HTR ones for S3600i? Was HTR under 3 times the weather? ... Oh, we should cut PSA some slack for this one time... Or is this the first time PSA has cried "The numbers should be higher because of this and that?" We all know PSA's design goals yield high output > 40 Hz and modest output < 32 Hz. So why do PSA's numbers match HTR's adjusted ones > 40 Hz but not < 32 Hz? Are you sure we should take PSA's numbers as it is, when the reviewers/testers have trouble replicating them?

Do you ever wonder why we don't see newer PSA subs tested on DB?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-03-2016 at 11:03 AM.
chucky7 is online now  
post #71 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ah_1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Looking at the JTR data-bass measurements it is clear that a lot of DSP massaging was done to produce the ±1dB 16-200Hz flat response. Being this flat I am not sure is a good thing in a room smaller than 3000 ft³. HSU seems to do something similar on their subs. PSA and Seaton seem to take a different approach with the DSP programming accounting in-room gains. Looking at the long term output compression measurements (in the review and on PSA's site), the JTR and PSA response curves look more similar than different. Too bad we don't have distortion numbers to accompany the PSA curve. I'm surprised this is even a close call with two 18" drivers vs one. It really seems to be a toss up based on the available info.

Based on Google images I prefer the look of the PSA. Much more imposing and looks good placed vertically or horizontally. PSA also gives an extra two years of warranty on the amp and they are reachable close to 366 days of the year.

The JTR has the more fully featured Speakerpower amp. XLR in/out, 12V trigger in/out for examples. However, do you need these?

My advice to the OP, use your two weeks optimizing your current system with a miniDSP, UMIK and REW. A SPL meter is no substitute, even if you feel like you've done a good job with the Rhythmiks. Take the time to truly dial things in properly before adding another sub into the mix.
Despite not having Rew, trust me I spent the last two years optimizing my system. I'm really not sure why I don't have Rew and I'm a equalizing nut. At least. There have been days where I spent all day with placement and equalizing. I don't think my current system can sound any better than it does. And that is coming from when I first got the Rythmiks December of 2014. '

I'm just looking for some deeper bass in the 15 to 20hz region, headroom and also more impact from music listening. My theatre is split between music and movies. I have the chest slam and deep bass, but I want more lol

I'm just crazy like the rest of y'all

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
ah_1014 is offline  
post #72 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ah_1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
If you're in the GTA, you must demo my systems (dual sealed 24's and an othorn in the great room and 8 x 18" big ported subs in my basement HT). It will open your eyes at the DIY possibilities
I'm in Toronto//Weston and 401 to be exact. I'd love to demo your system. I just hope it doesn't make me too envious and fall deeper down the rabbit hole
oneeyeblind and Billy p like this.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
ah_1014 is offline  
post #73 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 11:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
Despite not having Rew, trust me I spent the last two years optimizing my system. I'm really not sure why I don't have Rew and I'm a equalizing nut. At least. There have been days where I spent all day with placement and equalizing. I don't think my current system can sound any better than it does. And that is coming from when I first got the Rythmiks December of 2014. '

I'm just looking for some deeper bass in the 15 to 20hz region, headroom and also more impact from music listening. My theatre is split between music and movies. I have the chest slam and deep bass, but I want more lol

I'm just crazy like the rest of y'all
You already have 2 Rythmik FV15HPs, a very potent sub down low even @ 12 Hz. I am quite surprised that you are not happy with < 30 Hz. Maybe REW can further improve your system?

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #74 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 11:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by lz7j View Post
If you're in the GTA, you must demo my systems (dual sealed 24's and an othorn in the great room and 8 x 18" big ported subs in my basement HT). It will open your eyes at the DIY possibilities
It's very nice of you to offer demo to a fellow AVS member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I'm in Toronto//Weston and 401 to be exact. I'd love to demo your system. I just hope it doesn't make me too envious and fall deeper down the rabbit hole
Excellent! Maybe this should allow you to find out what you want more?
Billy p likes this.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #75 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ah_1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
You already have 2 Rythmik FV15HPs, a very potent sub down low even @ 12 Hz. I am quite surprised that you are not happy with < 30 Hz. Maybe REW can further improve your system?
Yeah, but my space is also open and my floor is concrete, So i'd lose output on those ULF . I'm really not trying to chase frequencies down that low anyway.
oneeyeblind likes this.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
ah_1014 is offline  
post #76 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 12:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,869
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I'm in Toronto//Weston and 401 to be exact. I'd love to demo your system. I just hope it doesn't make me too envious and fall deeper down the rabbit hole

Your should definitely take Nikko up on his offer...only ~20 mins away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
Yeah, but my space is also open and my floor is concrete, So i'd lose output on those ULF . I'm really not trying to chase frequencies down that low anyway.
Ha ha...if you actually attend the above...a seed maybe planted.... I know my ride was an exhilarating LFE demo during my visit...once I left though, reality set in like it does after a great roller coaster ride at Canada's Wonderland....

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
54" of Panny Bliss, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!
Billy p is offline  
post #77 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 12:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
zeus33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,117
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1821 Post(s)
Liked: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The JTR has the more fully featured Speakerpower amp. XLR in/out, 12V trigger in/out for examples. However, do you need these?

Just to clarify, JTR is using the ICE amps in the 1400 just like PSA uses. JTR's version does have those extra features though. They use the SP Torpedo amps in some other models, but not the 1400.

I knew what you meant, but some might think you are referring to the Torpedo series.
zeus33 is online now  
post #78 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,325
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2617 Post(s)
Liked: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
This ^^ and hard to keep/design the sub size relatively small. The phrase one often hears when describing great bass is 'loud and deep', not just loud. Have you heard anyone complaining his sub plays TOO deep?
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The audible bass range where bass sounds deep is 30-40hz. ULF is a pressurization...if you are hearing anything then it is harmonics.
You don't hear people say this movie digs deep if it is filtered at 30-40hz, do you?
tvuong is offline  
post #79 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 02:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lz7j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 695 Post(s)
Liked: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I'm in Toronto//Weston and 401 to be exact. I'd love to demo your system. I just hope it doesn't make me too envious and fall deeper down the rabbit hole

Your post-bass experience will be ruined. Lol. I have quad hst18's, quad uxl18's in individual boxes that average 10ft^3 and ported to 17hz and 4x18" mbm's 3" behind my seats. They're being fed with 30kw of power on a dedicated 100a panel.

The problem though is my room is on concrete like yours and is open to the rest of the 6200ft^3 basement.

You can also check out my hs24's at the end of the month. Shoot me a PM, I'm hosting another demo/movie night on August 27th.

BTW, I used to live at Weston and Sheppard at the new development there about 3 years ago now! Since you're local, I would completely forget about ID. I can lend you a dinky diy 18" sub worth $300 that you can compare against your dual fv15hp's (a friend of mine had fv15hp duals as well and he bought my vtf15mk2)... He's now rocking quad sealed 18's
Marc Alexander likes this.
lz7j is offline  
post #80 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 05:52 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
Despite not having Rew, trust me I spent the last two years optimizing my system. I'm really not sure why I don't have Rew and I'm a equalizing nut. At least. There have been days where I spent all day with placement and equalizing. I don't think my current system can sound any better than it oes.
Ok 😐

Do you mind sharing your meter model and EQ methods? I'm always open to learning.

Best of luck in your quest for 16-20Hz enhancement. 🖖

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 08-03-2016 at 05:57 PM.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #81 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 06:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,325
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2617 Post(s)
Liked: 2375
Op, ask Nikko to help you build 4-8 18" subs. That's what I would do if I was you. Having concrete floor, you will need serious set up to feel the bass. Notnyt has 4 HUGE ported 18" subs on concrete slab and that was not enough for him that he added the transducer in order to feel the glory bass. I was there to experience his system with and without the transducer. The transducer surely added that extra rumbling feeling.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	387
Size:	239.6 KB
ID:	1583001  
tvuong is offline  
post #82 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,217
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 9289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
You don't hear people say this movie digs deep if it is filtered at 30-40hz, do you?
Majority of people can't tell regardless.
basshead81 is offline  
post #83 of 93 Old 08-03-2016, 07:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 13,217
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 9289
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
And Cap 1400's are from DB, but V3600i's numbers on my chart are from.... drum roll... you got it! PSA! I can easily figure out PSA's sub output @ 16, 20, 25... Hz respectively from the 16~25 Hz, 20~ 31.5 Hz, and 31.5~50 Hz averages on PSA. Are you saying it's my fault that DB has not tested V3600i and that only numbers from PSA are available?

2 dB swing, you say? Isn't that equivalent to .3 sub according to the PSA product comparison chart? So it's OK for PSA to use the 2dB to sell it's products but it's not OK for me to use it?

Also, how do you account for the 7 dB difference @ 21~31.5 Hz between PSA's numbers and the unadjusted HTR ones for S3600i? Was HTR under 3 times the weather? ... Oh, we should cut PSA some slack for this one time... Or is this the first time PSA has cried "The numbers should be higher because of this and that?" We all know PSA's design goals yield high output > 40 Hz and modest output < 32 Hz. So why do PSA's numbers match HTR's adjusted ones > 40 Hz but not < 32 Hz? Are you sure we should take PSA's numbers as it is, when the reviewers/testers have trouble replicating them?

Do you ever wonder why we don't see newer PSA subs tested on DB?
You have a double standard going here as well. Again It is OK for you to mix and match data sets to come up with a theory based on which sub is more powerful but then tell me how do I really know if the V3600i is more powerful up top? You are getting loopy with your argument.

HTR review does not mean much to me. Brent Butterworth has been known to throw out some odd numbers. Pretty clear when he states the PB1000 hit like 122db 1m or something crazy which was higher then the PB12NSD and within 4db or so of the VTF-15. That is the only time I have heard of PSA numbers not matching up anyway. Aside from that you have to calculate output differently with sub's that have opposing drivers and/or the port not on the baffle. That is not crying, that is stating a fact.

No I really do not wonder why PSA has not had another sub tested, nor have I wondered why SVS, Rythmik, or HSU has had another sub tested. Maybe they do not need the press and sales are good? JTR went almost what 10yrs in business or longer before sending out products for testing? Why has Seaton not had a sub tested yet and does not want any products tested? Does it really matter, no not to me.

You are simply building a straw man debate here. Move on, you are starting to lack reason. This appears to have been the gateway thread for you to lash out on PSA. Cool story bro
salehdidit likes this.

Last edited by basshead81; 08-03-2016 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Fix typos...
basshead81 is offline  
post #84 of 93 Old 08-15-2016, 08:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,325
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2617 Post(s)
Liked: 2375
@ah_1040 so what sub are you rocking?
oneeyeblind likes this.
tvuong is offline  
post #85 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 03:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
oneeyeblind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
I'm in such a dilemma now, I really don't know which to go for.

You guy's made it harder, I was more geared towards the Cap 1400, but now I don't know.
Go with your gut and have fun.... also come back and tell us when you get it.

Also let us know if you get the cops called on you... you know by accident.

ShaunH

Last edited by oneeyeblind; 08-16-2016 at 03:50 AM.
oneeyeblind is offline  
post #86 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
Also let us know if you get the cops called on you... you know by accident.
Been there, done that... Twice... With just 1 JTR Cap 1400, 3 db hot, @ -12.5 MV.
oneeyeblind likes this.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3
chucky7 is online now  
post #87 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Been there, done that... Twice... With just 1 JTR Cap 1400, 3 db hot, @ -12.5 MV.
Cops?!? Damn! Apt., condo, townhome, or detached property?

I am blessed to only have one adjacent neighbor (not easy to find in SoCA). That neighbor is an officer and we are very cool. 😎

Bass does scare the woodpeckers away!
oneeyeblind and mthomas47 like this.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #88 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ah_1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 171
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
@ah_1040 so what sub are you rocking?
I just got the JTR yesterday. My god is that thing powerful lol.. Took me quite a while to get it to play well with the Rythmiks, but I was able to. I'll do some finer tweaks as the days and months go by as I always do.

I knew the Cap was potent, but I didn't not expect it to flex this much muscle at all. It's actually a bit too powerful for my space and it shakes the hell out of the walls lol. My Two Rythmiks FV15's are powerful too, but they did not shake the walls like the Cap does; the Cap has my walls shaking violently, but I love it.

After some fine tuning I was able to tame it, quite a bit but when the MV goes up, the house is begging for mercy lol.

I now need to install at least two 20 amp breakers in my house now lol. I tripped my breaker with the MV at -12.5 lol.

I will upload a picture in the next few days and I'll post a more detail review in a week or two in the official Cap 1400 Thread.

Television: Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Receiver: Yamaha RX-A2010
Speakers: Energy RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10 (4), JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Rythmik FV15HP (2)
ah_1014 is offline  
post #89 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 10:32 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,268
Mentioned: 345 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5482 Post(s)
Liked: 10460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Cops?!? Damn! Apt., condo, townhome, or detached property?

I am blessed to only have one adjacent neighbor (not easy to find in SoCA). That neighbor is an officer and we are very cool. 😎

Bass does scare the woodpeckers away!
Beautiful view, even with the woodpeckers!

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #90 of 93 Old 08-16-2016, 10:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chucky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3569 Post(s)
Liked: 4592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Cops?!? Damn! Apt., condo, townhome, or detached property?

I am blessed to only have one adjacent neighbor (not easy to find in SoCA). That neighbor is an officer and we are very cool. 😎

Bass does scare the woodpeckers away!
Yes, Cops.

My house is a detached house on a 63' x 115' lot, quite standard for SoCal. It is on a Cul de sac in a quite neighborhood. I can hear the crickets at night so...

The first time was a Friday night @ 9:20 PM. I was playing those demo bass clips at @ MV - 10. The cops had to drive around the neighborhood to figure out which house it is. They knocked on my door, and I told them I was watching a movie. I invited them in. They commented on how big the Cap 1400 was. I asked them if there is any noise guidelines that I should adhere to. They basically said that whenever someone calls in to complain, they would have to look into it... WTF??? They also told me to close my windows going forward.

The second time I was watching Mad Max Fury Road @ -12.5 MV on a Friday night. A cop knocked on my door at exactly 10 PM. He told me someone had called about the noise. So I told him I will turn it down. Then he left.

After that I have been watching movies on weekend afternoons. No more cop visits since then. Of course the next door housewife calls to complain from time to time. One time out of curiosity, I measured the volume with my wife's cellphone app during the loudest part of Jurassic World. I got a 81 dB reading on a A-scale weighting.

I envy those who are able to listen to their system at reference level.

Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 08-16-2016 at 01:26 PM.
chucky7 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off