SVS Unleashes 16-Ultra Series Subwoofers Featuring 8" Voice Coil Drivers - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3031 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
Huh??? Not me! I upgraded from dual SB13s to dual SB16s and my couch rails (and posterior) are complaining about the bass they always feel. SB16's placed in same locations as the prior SB13s. My gain level for each sub is -27dB and my processor adds another -3dB for a total of -30dB. SB13s were operated at a much higher gain level yet never produced that much felt bass as the SB16s.
I'd agree 100%. I came from dual SB13s to dual SB16s and the difference has been far more noticeable than I had anticipated. And this is taking into account the 8" woofer they try to claim is 16", the highly inefficient design, the China build quality, etc Did I miss anything?

I really can't believe some people don't have better things to do with their time. You've (LFE) got a killer home theater and you spend half of your day in this forum insulting people with your vendetta against SVS.
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post #3032 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 05:13 PM
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[/quote] @jbrazda https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post52669297

Wow, the dark paint really makes it look like a totally different room. Nice setup.
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post #3033 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 06:30 PM
 
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@jbrazda https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post52669297

Wow, the dark paint really makes it look like a totally different room. Nice setup.[/QUOTE]

I agree, his room turned out to be really unique. Now all he needs are those acoustic paneling on the side walls that double as movie posters.
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post #3034 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 06:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ebdixson View Post
I'd agree 100%. I came from dual SB13s to dual SB16s and the difference has been far more noticeable than I had anticipated. And this is taking into account the 8" woofer they try to claim is 16", the highly inefficient design, the China build quality, etc Did I miss anything?

I really can't believe some people don't have better things to do with their time. You've (LFE) got a killer home theater and you spend half of your day in this forum insulting people with your vendetta against SVS.
Boy, you guys are too much fun.
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Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
I saw it. Problem is, there aren't any calibrator around Omaha.


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You would have to get a reputable calibrator who travels and book him. That is what i did.
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post #3036 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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You missed the other time or two this thread blew up the same way. Some junkies just have get their kicks.
Haha well I gotta thank the guys who (sometimes literally) account for every other post during sessions like that, even if the motivation is to criticize. It takes real time and effort to do that.

They keep threads like this alive and most people will read the review and maybe a few comments, and not comment number three thousand and whatever. In a day, this debate will be lost as new comments push them into oblivion, So whatever point they wish to make, it's negated by the additional visibility their concerted action lends to the thread. It's an equilibrium of sorts.
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post #3037 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by januza View Post
So now SVS has recommended that I buy a Minidsp with an adjustable HPF which may eliminate the chuffing. Any comments to this ? As I'm in china I bought this unit from their dealer and I'm not covered like u guys in USA. I'm also talking to the dealer but they seem hesitant to give me a replacement unit.
I got the same recommendation.

Keep in mind on my part my dealer is more than happy to take a return, but from what SVS had to say they believe my experience would be no different with a different PB-16, it's just purely a matter of trying to get too much airflow through the ports.

They recommended the MiniDSP in order to have a custom filter that could be set to be a sharp cutoff high pass, perhaps set at 17 Hz or so and are willing to help me tune the filter accordingly.

Regardless of what you think of this approach, it really is the most sensible approach if you want to keep the PB-16 but want to eliminate chuffing and be able to play EoT (or WotW or Interstellar) at high subwoofer levels.

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post #3038 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
Towers sound great. I honestly don't know that they are much better the the bookshelves when crossed over for movies. It was either buy stands for the bookshelves, or spend that money on towers. So I returned the bookshelves and got the towers.


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The towers give you a lot more headroom. I bought a pair of RP150m to try out, and they sound great at reasonable levels, even without a subwoofer if you're playing classic rock. However, if you play them loudly, even crossed over at 100 Hz, the midwoofer audibly distorts. You have a ton more to work with the towers, they are more sensitive, and can handle any mid bass I can throw at them, as I have them crossed at 80. In a nutshell, the RP150m's give up before my ears do, but my ears give up before my RF-82 II. I thought that getting towers might have been over kill, but my experience with the RP150m suggest I was right after all.
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I got the same recommendation.



Keep in mind on my part my dealer is more than happy to take a return, but from what SVS had to say they believe my experience would be no different with a different sub, it's just purely a matter of trying to get too much airflow through the ports.



They recommended the MiniDSP in order to have a custom filter that could be set to be a sharp cutoff high pass, perhaps set at 17 Hz or so and are willing to help me tune the filter accordingly.



Regardless of what you think of this approach, it really is the most sensible approach if you want to keep the PB-16 but want to eliminate chuffing and be able to play EoT (or WotW or Interstellar) at high subwoofer levels.


I'm not sure if it's the right choice. minidsp will eliminate the problem I'm sure but then why not just use the RGC ?
Others don't have our problem so I'm gonna press my china distributor for a replacement of my PB16 or that I return the PB16 and buy 2 PB13s instead.




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post #3040 of 3934 Old 05-01-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by januza View Post
I'm not sure if it's the right choice. minidsp will eliminate the problem I'm sure but then why not just use the RGC ?
Others don't have our problem so I'm gonna press my china distributor for a replacement of my PB16 or that I return the PB16 and buy 2 PB13s instead.
RGC only goes as low as 25 Hz which is why when you set it to a 12 dB slope you lose all your low bass.

With the MiniDSP you can set it as low as 10 Hz, so for example a high pass at 17 Hz would allow all audible bass to pass but would cut off the infrasonic frequencies below port tune frequency that cause most of the chuffing.
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
RGC only goes as low as 25 Hz which is why when you set it to a 12 dB slope you lose all your low bass.

With the MiniDSP you can set it as low as 10 Hz, so for example a high pass at 17 Hz would allow all audible bass to pass but would cut off the infrasonic frequencies below port tune frequency that cause most of the chuffing.
I wonder why they don't program that into the dsp? There must be a reason, but it sounds like a good idea.

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post #3042 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
So now SVS has recommended that I buy a Minidsp with an adjustable HPF which may eliminate the chuffing. Any comments to this ? As I'm in china I bought this unit from their dealer and I'm not covered like u guys in USA. I'm also talking to the dealer but they seem hesitant to give me a replacement unit.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I got the same recommendation.

Keep in mind on my part my dealer is more than happy to take a return, but from what SVS had to say they believe my experience would be no different with a different PB-16, it's just purely a matter of trying to get too much airflow through the ports.

They recommended the MiniDSP in order to have a custom filter that could be set to be a sharp cutoff high pass, perhaps set at 17 Hz or so and are willing to help me tune the filter accordingly.

Regardless of what you think of this approach, it really is the most sensible approach if you want to keep the PB-16 but want to eliminate chuffing and be able to play EoT (or WotW or Interstellar) at high subwoofer levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
I'm not sure if it's the right choice. minidsp will eliminate the problem I'm sure but then why not just use the RGC ?
Others don't have our problem so I'm gonna press my china distributor for a replacement of my PB16 or that I return the PB16 and buy 2 PB13s instead.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
RGC only goes as low as 25 Hz which is why when you set it to a 12 dB slope you lose all your low bass.

With the MiniDSP you can set it as low as 10 Hz, so for example a high pass at 17 Hz would allow all audible bass to pass but would cut off the infrasonic frequencies below port tune frequency that cause most of the chuffing.
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I wonder why they don't program that into the dsp? There must be a reason, but it sounds like a good idea.
Sounds like something that should be an option in the sub's DSP.

The moment we're adding a miniDSP system to a 16-Ultra sub is the moment I ask if another approach would not suit that person's needs better. Namely, why spend on a DSP-equipped sub if you have to add DSP to it? Once you go miniDSP, you can create proper EQ and crossover settings for just about any sub, including DIY. But more crucially, you can opt for a sub (or multiple subs) that take a more minimalist approach to producing deep bass.

Anyhow, ported subs have no business pumping big air below port tune. Unless you are in "sealed" mode the really deep stuff should be subjected to a super-steep high-pass filter that kicks in under port tune. I'm surprised that choosing the various port modes in the app doesn't do that already.

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post #3043 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 01:36 AM
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I really like SVS as a company, I've had 6 of their subwoofers and have always had fantastic before and after sales service from both SVS USA and their Australian resellers. But I honestly would NOT accept "buy a miniDSP so you can set a HPF @ 17hz" as a solution to the clearly audible chuffing that a few of these PB16's are producing. Surely these units are faulty, the fact that some people have PB13 Ultras playing the same scenes - much much louder- in the same room, without audible distress must mean something is wrong?
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I really like SVS as a company, I've had 6 of their subwoofers and have always had fantastic before and after sales service from both SVS USA and their Australian resellers. But I honestly would NOT accept "buy a miniDSP so you can set a HPF @ 17hz" as a solution to the clearly audible chuffing that a few of these PB16's are producing. Surely these units are faulty, the fact that some people have PB13 Ultras playing the same scenes - much much louder- in the same room, without audible distress must mean something is wrong?


Agree to me that's common sense. Hope the dealer where will accept my proposal.


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SVS Unleashes 16-Ultra Series Subwoofers Featuring 8" Voice Coil Drivers

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Sounds like something that should be an option in the sub's DSP.



The moment we're adding a miniDSP system to a 16-Ultra sub is the moment I ask if another approach would not suit that person's needs better. Namely, why spend on a DSP-equipped sub if you have to add DSP to it? Once you go miniDSP, you can create proper EQ and crossover settings for just about any sub, including DIY. But more crucially, you can opt for a sub (or multiple subs) that take a more minimalist approach to producing deep bass.



Anyhow, ported subs have no business pumping big air below port tune. Unless you are in "sealed" mode the really deep stuff should be subjected to a super-steep high-pass filter that kicks in under port tune. I'm surprised that choosing the various port modes in the app doesn't do that already.

This seems like something that should be able to be added with an updated app. Or perhaps a firmware update. I wonder if that would be possible? @Ed Mullen , is that possible?



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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebosco View Post
I really like SVS as a company, I've had 6 of their subwoofers and have always had fantastic before and after sales service from both SVS USA and their Australian resellers. But I honestly would NOT accept "buy a miniDSP so you can set a HPF @ 17hz" as a solution to the clearly audible chuffing that a few of these PB16's are producing. Surely these units are faulty, the fact that some people have PB13 Ultras playing the same scenes - much much louder- in the same room, without audible distress must mean something is wrong?
But are they single PB-13 Ultras?

I have but a single PB-16 ultra; if I had two the two would be set to much lower volumes and so there would be far less risk of chuffing.

But when say it's only one sub trying to play the EoT 15 Hz tone (let alone the 10 Hz one), it's going to be moving more air than a hair dryer, and that movement will, unfortunately, due to the PB-16's port design, be audible.

It might be audible on a JTR or something too with its larger rectangular ports; certainly from what I have read, owners trying to play that bit at full reference level on single driver ported subs have not had much luck.
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Just to be fair to SVS here - was wandering YouTube and found this nice video of a JTR 1400 playing the tones from EoT (albeit at reference level), and while it's not as loud you can certainly hear it chuffing away on the 15Hz and 10Hz tones…

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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Just to be fair to SVS here - was wandering YouTube and found this nice video of a JTR 1400 playing the tones from EoT (albeit at reference level), and while it's not as loud you can certainly hear it chuffing away on the 15Hz and 10Hz tones…



JTR Captivator 1400 Chuffing on EoT


Any sub can chuff if pushed but that my PB16 chuffs at 108db in Martian and yet my PB13 I can push to 129db in exact same scene with ZERO chuffing makes no sense to me.


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Originally Posted by januza View Post
Any sub can chuff if pushed but that my PB16 chuffs at 108db in Martian and yet my PB13 I can push to 129db in exact same scene with ZERO chuffing makes no sense to me.


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Ummm how many dB?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
Any sub can chuff if pushed but that my PB16 chuffs at 108db in Martian and yet my PB13 I can push to 129db in exact same scene with ZERO chuffing makes no sense to me.


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129?


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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Ummm how many dB?


Same scene PB16 chuffs at 108db
PB13 very slight chuff at 129db after increasing the sub amp to max and my AVR to -77 meaning I was pushing the crap out of the PB13.

I was asked by SVS to compare the 2 subs side by side to see where the PB13 would chuff compared to the PB16.
I used a UMIK-1 microphone 1/2 foot from the woofer.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
Any sub can chuff if pushed but that my PB16 chuffs at 108db in Martian and yet my PB13 I can push to 129db in exact same scene with ZERO chuffing makes no sense to me.
I suspect it's a combination of sub tune frequency and the PB-13's drivers are smaller so it's forcing less air through the ports than the PB-16 does.

I'm not a speaker designer, so those are just guesses.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
Same scene PB16 chuffs at 108db
PB13 very slight chuff at 129db after increasing the sub amp to max and my AVR to -77 meaning I was pushing the crap out of the PB13.

I was asked by SVS to compare the 2 subs side by side to see where the PB13 would chuff compared to the PB16.
I used a UMIK-1 microphone 1/2 foot from the woofer.




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I don't know how you got 129db from the pb13, chuffing or not, from a half a foot away. With room gain, maybe, but even that would be pretty impressive from one sub at those frequencies.


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post #3054 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I suspect it's a combination of sub tune frequency and the PB-13's drivers are smaller so it's forcing less air through the ports than the PB-16 does.

I'm not a speaker designer, so those are just guesses.
No something else is up, what that member wrote makes no sense (to me).

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post #3055 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
Same scene PB16 chuffs at 108db
PB13 very slight chuff at 129db after increasing the sub amp to max and my AVR to -77 meaning I was pushing the crap out of the PB13.

I was asked by SVS to compare the 2 subs side by side to see where the PB13 would chuff compared to the PB16.
I used a UMIK-1 microphone 1/2 foot from the woofer.

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I have no idea what's going on there, but what you describe makes no sense to me. It's illogical that the PB16-Ultra would start chuffing 20 dB down compared to the PB13-Ultra. They are not fundamentally different designs.

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post #3056 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 06:51 AM
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SVS Unleashes 16-Ultra Series Subwoofers Featuring 8" Voice Coil Drivers

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I have no idea what's going on there, but what you describe makes no sense to me. It's illogical that the PB16-Ultra would start chuffing 20 dB down compared to the PB13-Ultra. They are not fundamentally different designs.


Do you agree that it's not possible for the pb13 to hit 129db at those frequencies at half a foot away? I really don't even think it's capable of that. Data-bass has 97db at 16hz, 110db at 20hz.

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post #3057 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by januza View Post
Interesting my PB16 chuffs at 108db during Martian ( closing habitat doors ) I have pushed my PB13s to 129db in the same scene with no chuffing.




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Judging by this post it was 2 x PB13 Ultras that reached 129dB. So even then, subtract 6dB for a single PB13 and it's still peaking at 123dB and not chuffing


Basshead posted a video a while ago of his Home Theater with 3 x PSA XV15SE's playing the plane crash from Flight of the Phoenix and if IRC it peaked around 129(ish) dB at the MLP as well

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post #3058 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 07:21 AM
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no a Pb13 is not going to hit 129db in any living room. It takes 4 subs in my 2400^3 room that are around the PB13 performance level to crack 130db. Something is off with his measurements gear. However I find it hard to believe the PB16 starts chuffing 20db lower then the PB13...as Imagic stated that does not make any logical sense. The PB16 is a little under ported for 14hz mode, but if it was that bad SVS would never of released it like that.


Not sure if it has been brought up but for those of you having chuffing issues, are you running Audyssey with Dynamic EQ on? I know in the past this feature has been known to over boost the low end response, then factor in how hot you have turned the subs up post calibration... could be causing most of the issue.
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post #3059 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 07:24 AM
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@januza can you clarify, did you measure one pb13 from a half a foot away with the eot scene at 129db?


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post #3060 of 3934 Old 05-02-2017, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
no a Pb13 is not going to hit 129db in any living room. It takes 4 subs in my 2400^3 room that are around the PB13 performance level to crack 130db. Something is off with his measurements gear. However I find it hard to believe the PB16 starts chuffing 20db lower then the PB13...as Imagic stated that does not make any logical sense. The PB16 is a little under ported for 14hz mode, but if it was that bad SVS would never of released it like that.


Not sure if it has been brought up but for those of you having chuffing issues, are you running Audyssey with Dynamic EQ on? I know in the past this feature has been known to over boost the low end response, then factor in how hot you have turned the subs up post calibration... could be causing most of the issue.


I don't think it is chuffing 20db sooner. His measurements have to be off. Or the pb16 was measured from half foot away and the pb13 from listening position. Even that seems off. No way one pb13 is hitting 129 at those frequencies, and probably at any frequency.


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