Is the consensus here that SVS SB16 Ultra is the best large sub for the price for 2 ch music only (no ht)?

Speakers are Revel f208

Don’t the large drive subs are “too slow” when it comes to music use only?

I think the SB16 Ultra is exactly that. Good for many folks' use in HT too. I don't own one but have auditioned the SB16 Ultra at my dealer. I'm no expert but believe its huge voice coil combined with a powerful amp allows it to be a fast-acting sub. I also believe that with the voice coil attached to the cone at about the midpoint of its surface area rather than down near the center helps with less physical distortion of the cone and a "cleaner" sound during long-excursion passages.

Purely conjecture on my part, but sounds good to me.

Thanks!

I have narrowed it down to either SVS SB16Ultra or the Rythmik new F18.

Price wise, they are the same (for me).

Thoughts?

Again, music only (two channel stereo) with Revel f208s, in a relatively large basement (about 500 square feet with 8' tall ceilings).

I have not heard the rythmik personally but the consensus on AVS largely seems to be the rythmik subs (even their ported) are best for music. I would visit the rythmik thread as well and read up the responses. The F18 should be stellar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since you are in the U.S. the best thing to do would be to try them both. Might cost you return shipping if you decide you like the SVS better.

Agreed...SQ is largely subjective and personal...your ears are the best decision maker.

For loud music aren’t you looking for 50-60hz?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I just ordered the SB16 for the benefit of getting more accurate with my music listening, which is mostly hi-res physical media sources. After months of deliberations, conversations, reading forums, etc. I felt that this sub would provide the best results for me.

I would always suggest to listen to it, if possible. I have had SVS for a long time so familiar with the brand and product, which to me is excellent in both regards. The customer service at SVS is second to none in my opinion, if that is a factor for you.

Hi,

I think it would depend on the type of music. For most music, the mid-bass frequencies would be more important than the very low bass frequencies. But, almost any good subwoofer should be able to generate pretty loud mid-bass. I got the impression that the poster to whom I was responding was talking about bass-enhanced music, when he referred to "too loud" music. For that, I think that being able to generate high SPL <35Hz would be very important. I'm not sure that's what he meant, but that was my impression.

Regards,
Mike

The SB16 is not slow and does an excellent job with music and movies. Depending on your music taste the SB16 will let you hear and fell musical notes you didn't realize were in the music. I do more music listening than I watch movies. Smooth Jazz is my primary listening pleasure. Old School R&B, and a little Hip Hop also find their way when I'm in the mood. SVS did a great job with the SB13, but hit it out the Park with the SB16.

Hi All,
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

I was wondering if you experts could offer some advice as I have a dilema.

I just recieved my new SB16U and I love it. Im just about to run a calibration into my system and was wondering....

Should I also INCLUDE my KEN KREISEL 12X12 sub also? What gives me hesitation is that they are two difefrent subs and not sure if I would benefit or cause strange challenges with the LFE????

Or should I just calibrate the SB16U into the system? I plan to position the SB16U in between the center and front right main channel. 'IF' I do include the KEN KREISEL sub I will position that in the rear righ corner as this is the best place for it and would place the SB16U next to the front LEFT speaker.....

I will also be using my SVS AS-EQ1 processor.

ANY tips or tricks you could offer would be a GREAT help!!! I dont really want to mess arround to much and keep trying diffrent things.

Many thanks!!!!

Hi and Happy Holidays to you, as well!

I have never used the AS-EQ1, but I would think that the same basic principles would apply. I would start with the SB16 next to the front left speaker, and perform your calibration with just the one sub. Listen to the result and see what you think. Then, add in the 12X12 in the opposite right corner and recalibrate. Did it improve your overall sound or not? It may actually degrade your sound quality, but you won't know until you try it. There is yet a third option, and that is to add in the Kreisel sub after you have calibrated the SB16 by itself. There is a chance that could work better.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any shortcuts to performing some sort of trial-and-error process. How well two different subs will integrate in a given room is anybody's guess. If you add in the Kreisel sub after the calibration, you will have to set it's distance and trim level manually, but you should be able to remember the settings from the calibration performed in the second option. If you add in the Kreisel sub after calibrating, you will also need to use a Y-connector into a single sub out, so that Audyssey won't cancel your calibration when you add a second sub.

If the first two options don't work as well as you hoped, I can explain more about why the third option may work better. Hopefully, though, the two subs will play well together, or you will be satisfied with the SB16 by itself. Good luck!

Regards,
Mike

Merry Xmas, to one and all.

Attempting to integrate two dissimilar subs is always difficult. If the phase response of each is different, they may reinforce at certain frequencies, but will interfere at others, possibly leading to wild variations in perceived output. You would really need to measure each with something like REW, and be able to integrate them before treating the pair as a single LFE/sub channel before performing the final 'room calibration'.
For a quick and dirty 'holiday setup' - just go with the SB16U on its own - then when time allows, see about full integration/optimisation using both subs (it could give a smoother response around the room/listening position - so its worth the effort).

Happy listening, regards, Mike.

I think more people should seriously consider the PB16 over the SB16.. According to SVS it is very, very close to SB16 in "sealed" mode, but even then it digs a bit deeper. So SVS recommended PB16 to me at least... In "extended" mode, it is simply a different beast. If you have room correction software/AVR/DSP to control the room modes, I bet the PB16 will outperform the SB16 in most if not all settings. I tried my dual PB16 in "sealed" mode and it was very nice, but I like the several dBs of extra LF dynamic range in extended more. Also for music, and they integrate well in a high-end system. The extra flexibility, size, weight and money is well worth it, IMHO :-)

@Nowayman I would definitely try to integrate the outstanding KK with the SB16. It will be some work with REW but not that hard in this case I think. The KK I suspect is even "faster" than the SB16 at higher frequencies, based on my listening sessions at my friends place, so you may have to play around with phase settings etc... You could even experiment with different crossovers for the two, depending on your room and measurements... But in the end, I am pretty sure you will end up with a better LF by combining the two.

The PB16 Ultra is very nice but just too big for many people, me being one of them. And more money than some folk have. Either one is that for me right now.

Anyone care to share so more input on the port chuffing of the PB 16?

I know all ported subs are subjected to it, but for me it would only need to be under truly extreme volumes with torture test content. Watching say the incredible hulk or cloverfield at -10 volume id expect SVS' flagship to behave 100%. same goes for the new PB4000.

no reviews I read mention it, unless I missed it, but many on here have talked about how its more likely to chuff then the PB 13 due to having the same port size and bigger driver and amp

is this truly bothersome to anyone, or does it really only happen if you have the PB 16 obnoxiously turned all the way up and playing torture test trying to get it to chuff? it should be able to deliver reference level bass without chuffing shouldn't it? assuming its in an appropriately sized room and set up properly of course.

like how hard are you guys pushing these things??

would running duals eliminate the chuffing??

besides being too much $$$ the chuffing ive read about leads me to not even consider the PB16 in the future if it truly just is underported, so I'm getting dual PB4000s. hopefully they are like the pB13 when it comes to chuffing

I can only talk about my personal experience, but I found it trivial to get the PB16 to chuff:


Yes, my video is extreme, but I first noticed it playing regular content at a normal volume level; for example I first heard it chuff watching War of the Worlds (not even during the attack scene people use as a demo) then went digging through my Blu-rays looking for a scene that might exacerbate the issue and found the opening credits to Edge of Tomorrow, and couldn't find a volume level at which I would listen at which it didn't chuff unless it was used as a sealed sub.

People mentioned dual subs would have solved it due to the lower volume level involved but frankly I don't have room for two.

I had discussions with SVS about it and they basically told me what I was hearing was expected for the PB-16, so I decided to return it to my dealer and stay with my Velodyne DD-18 rather than try the SB-16 as I felt there was no need to move from one sealed sub to another.

Hi,

I know of about five or six people (including Kucharsk) who have had issues with the PB16's chuffing. There may well be others, but I believe that most people post to complain about that sort of thing, and I have tried to keep track. There have been hundreds of PB16's sold, so the statistical percentage of chuffing PB16's may not be as bad as it sounds.

For a while, I tried to explain the occasional chuffing reports in terms of specific flaws with specific subwoofers. But, I became convinced that it wasn't bad amps or blocked ports. (Ed Mullen always said that was not likely to be the explanation.) I do believe that the PB16's are a little under-ported, compared to the PB13's and PB4000's which have the same size ports, but less amp power.

The question I could never quite answer for myself was why some PB16's chuffed and some didn't, because I have three of them, and mine have never chuffed with any content whatsoever. I know of a number of other people who have reported that they also have never experienced chuffing with their PB16's. And, some of us have pushed our PB16's quite hard.

I know that it isn't just content related, or master volume related, or sub boost related, because a number of us have compared notes on those factors, and some of us (such as myself) who have never experienced chuffing are running our subs hotter, with the same content, than others who have experienced chuffing. I think it's a given that the PB16's are more prone to chuffing than the PB13's. But, I think it takes some particular combination of room modes and/or room EQ to bring it on.

Of course, having multiple subs definitely helps with respect to port chuffing tendencies for any subwoofers. And, proper room set-up and effective room EQ should also be pluses. But, I think that there is some luck of the draw in whether someone experiences a dip at a particular frequency, perhaps within a few Hz of the tuning point, in a way that makes some subs chuff prematurely, with some material. Rarely do they chuff with all material.

FWIW, this issue isn't limited to the flagship SVS subs. There have been isolated reports of large PSA, JTR, and Rythmik subs chuffing prematurely, as well. I think in most cases it is likely to be attributable to a combination of room placement and specific content, coinciding with a particular room mode. I don't know that for a fact, so let's call it a semi-educated guess.

The bottom-line for me is that any sub can chuff under the right circumstances, including from simply being over-driven. And, anyone considering buying a PB16 has a perfect right to feel some trepidation about port chuffing. But, the reality is that there are an awful lot of satisfied PB16 owners who have never experienced that phenomenon with their subs. And, I am one of them. For those who are reluctant to take the gamble, and who want a little more conservative option, I believe that the new 4000 series offers a very good alternative, with many of the same advantages as the PB16's.

Regards,
Mike

appreciate the feedback guys! yea I really feel that for my theater space that the PB4000s seem to be the perfect choice. If all goes well I'm looking to order on Monday so I should be able to test it out fairly soon

the PB 16s are amazing I'm sure, but duals are just too much $$ than what I feel I will be happy with to get the job done in my theater room. the chuffing "issue" or phenomenon it seems to be makes me reluctant to try it as well. If I somehow am not satisfied with 2 PB 4000s, I might reconsider since I love SVS.

If I could cop a pair of dual PB 13 Ultras in black oak for what SVS is charging on their outlet store, id be super tempted just to get the PB 13 ultras, but that god damn smart phone app and ability to make adjustments on the fly while sitting down seems to be a fantastic feature these new subs offer.

The app is cool, but once you have the subs adjusted you likely will never use the app again.

For example, my DD-18 has a built-in parametric EQ with a mic and it's a really great feature, but after setting up my sub about a decade ago I have never had a reason to return to it.

Most people don't have space for a washing machine or two in their livingroom or basement.

True
And SB16 is probably sufficient in most systems. Furthermore, the SB16 will be easier to integrate in most rooms (PB16 in extended mode will likely require more tuning below 30Hz unless you have a very large room). But once you get hooked on that kick that only a couple of very large and properly levelled "washing machines" can deliver, it is amazing how much space you can make available :-)

Not all of us have single-family homes where other people have to be considered. Some may have single-family homes and still have to be considerate of what others in the same home can tolerate. I have both situations. I have a rent-paying tenant below me, and a wife who says she "hates the boom-boom-boom" of my lowly SB2000. Space is definitely an issue too; I just can't magically create a bigger living room or discard furniture to get more volume.

I appreciate what the PB16 Ultra and other subs can do. I've auditioned them at my dealer's place and it is great to have that full range from rumble in my seat up to where loudspeakers take over. I don't really envy you who can have the big, deep-playing subs, I just appreciate that you can and do enjoy them. It's not likely I would ever have them even if I could. I'm just not a movie watcher and don't listen to much music hitting that low. Enjoy if you want them and can have them though!

I respect that 100%! I should have moderated my initial post with a "Given x, y, z you should consider PB16 over SB16" :-) And everything is a compromise one way or the other..
BTW, I had a related problem with my two PC13's. They caused sooo much vibration in my kitchen ceilings (the movie room is above the kitchen) that my wife was NOT very happy (the kitchen downlights were shaking, as in old "disco lights" - I thought it was quite fascinating but she thought not
So I got the Soundpath feet installed, problem mostly solved. For some reason, I do not have the same issue with the PB16's...

Erik

Do you use the feet on the PB16's? I'm considering giving them a try on mine, as our neighbors have complained that the whole house shakes when I turn it up (Vertical split house), but am unsure if it'll do any difference..

In my house, the PB16 does not cause the same problem as the PC13 so although I bought another set for the PB16's I actually ended up using them as isolation between my main speakers and subs, instead of under the PB16 subs as I had intended (my main FL+FR are placed on top of the front L+R subs). But these feet definitely make a difference. For the PC13 the difference is night and day... I would try it, highly recommended, the effects are not subtle, on my wooden floors.

As a slightly more fancy alternative, I also have some of the IsoAcoustic isolation stands for my smaller speakers and they are really nice, but they do not support big subs unless you go for their "modular" series, which is more expensive (http://www.isoacoustics.com/products...-model-mol-al/)... I am tempted. However, instead of the modular series, my friend uses 2x of these under each of his 2xpair of stacked Ken Kreisel subs and he is very happy with it: http://www.isoacoustics.com/products...lation-stands/

Funny that the PB16's don't shake your house as much as the PC13's? Perhaps the weight distributed across a larger footprint reduces the bass transfered to the floor.. Just guessing.

The iso acoustics stands do look quite expensive, yeah.. I'd have to be pretty darn sure they'd make a big difference before paying a lot of money on sub stands

The PC drivers fire vertically, the others fire horizontally. A solid floor will not be affected by either, a suspended floor will be affected by the PC more than the PB or SB.
Regards, Mike.

Well duh, that does makes sense

Just to be fair, after my complaints about the PB-16's port chuffing on the beginning of Edge of Tomorrow, here's a JTR Captivator 1400 happily chuffing away as well.

It's not as obnoxious IMHO, but it's still going on and I still would have heard this from across the room.