SVS Unleashes 16-Ultra Series Subwoofers Featuring 8" Voice Coil Drivers - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 3934 Old 10-07-2016, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I didn't realize SVS had so many dealers now.

What is the advantage of buying from a dealer? If they have free in home trials and the bill of rights doesn't apply to dealers it seems a like a better deal to buy direct no? Also not tax if buying direct? I could see Best Buy having an advantage if you could use their 24 months free finanacing.
I will answer because you asked. Every dealer has their own policy. For instance I take in a lot of trades from all brands (just presold 2 SB-16U's; one was a JL F113 trade-in and the other one was an HSU). I don't have a one year rule on trade-ups, I absorb the tax in MN and AZ (trades offset a lot of the tax) and of course no tax for out of state customers. I too offer the free in home, free delivery on SVS. Now if someone wanted a free trial on a sub that I didn't like (SVS), I'd tell them to go buy it from someone else. If I don't think it is a good sub, why would I offer to take it back if you don't like it? But I do like all of the SVS's (some more than others). Only 1, SB-13U came back out of all of the SVS subs that I have sold (wife thought it was too big). Of course I also set them up, bring over demos including different models as well as other brands that I sell to compare. That's why.

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post #242 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Can I see a show of hands for the SVS dealers here...
Guilty as charged. I don't like posting unless I add some value. I'm not pimping you for business. Rather clarifying why I love this new product and why I think they are building it. Furthermore, it seems that I am the only guy who has heard one or seen one. The listening session was by invite from the President of SVS who wanted to share his well warranted enthusiasm 10 months ago. If my posts came off as something other than that, I appologize.

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post #243 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Guilty as charged. I don't like posting unless I add some value. I'm not pimping you for business. Rather clarifying why I love this new product and why I think they are building it. Furthermore, it seems that I am the only guy who has heard one or seen one. The listening session was by invite from the President of SVS who wanted to share his well warranted enthusiasm 10 months ago. If my posts came off as something other than that, I appologize.


I don't see that to be a problem Steve It is a SVS thread.
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post #244 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Guilty as charged. I don't like posting unless I add some value. I'm not pimping you for business. Rather clarifying why I love this new product and why I think they are building it. Furthermore, it seems that I am the only guy who has heard one or seen one. The listening session was by invite from the President of SVS who wanted to share his well warranted enthusiasm 10 months ago. If my posts came off as something other than that, I appologize.
No, sir... Don't take it the wrong way... I appreciate your posts.

I am just surprised to see that many dealers for an ID sub company... That is all. Then again, if SVS is doing business unlike an ID sub company, why should we regard it as one?

It's always nice to see that ID sub companies are not content with their existing product lines and are introducing better products. Competition is good for consumers!
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post #245 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
No, sir... Don't take it the wrong way... I appreciate your posts.

I am just surprised to see that many dealers for an ID sub company... That is all. Then again, if SVS is doing business unlike an ID sub company, why should we regard it as one?

It's always nice to see that ID sub companies are not content with their existing product lines and are introducing better products. Competition is good for consumers!
Thanks for the clarification.

I'll answer the highlighted portion. Disclaimer: this is my theory and in no way represents any conversations that I have had with any person. I'm good with numbers and here is my thoughts. SVS has a hybrid approach and is very much an internet direct company. But let's back up a mile with some background... Any brand that wants to start out building products for dealers has a really tough business model. That's because it's extremely difficult to get dealers attention. I constantly get calls from new manufactures wanted me to audition their stuff. Plowing the fields and trying to sell a brand without a reputation is tough. So like a lot of dealers, I am somewhat closed minded to work 3x harder trying to educate people with a no-name product. Worse yet, all too often that brand might not be around because it is tough for new manufactures to make $$'s and keep the doors open. Option 2: a brand can go directly to the consumer using a grass roots approach or ID.

SVS followed that exclusive model for years. Still, nearly all of their sales are "direct". But to grow, they need to go into other channels. Of course that means they have to discount to dealers. But they do offset costs like sales, free trails, trades, warranty swaps, phone calls, fraud, credit card fees, etc, etc. I should also mention SVS has skinnier margins than many other subwoofer brands that I sell. But some people won't buy unless they can touch it in a showrooms or have someone else set it up. That also costs money. So to get into these new channels, they discount some $$'s to the dealers. As I mentioned earlier, if they didn't have an overwhelming majority of sales direct, there would be no way for them to offer their price performance ratio. So basically they are viewing this a marginal profit (making a small amount but offsetting costs). Since a lot of fixed costs are already paid for (R&D, tooling, etc), their variable costs are basically cost of goods sold and assembly. So at the end of the day they can pick up market share, boost volume to get better pricing on COGS. All the while making a marginal profit on some dealer sales (which results in selling to less total customers which is a way to pick up efficiencies). Bonus: they get more visibility and market share. I constantly sell to people who have never heard of SVS. That's the benefit to SVS. Plus, certainly a percentage of customers will walk into a BB or myself and later buy direct. Such as life.

So the net-net is this approach make sense for them and it is a win-win. I will repeat myself. No way could they pull off these price performance ratios unless they were ID and the bulk of their sales were direct. And as I said earlier, Emotiva, PSAudio, and others do this as well. I forgot about HSU (I was a dealer many years ago). I know of several other "direct" brands that offer products to dealers and do the exact same thing without advertising it. Rest assured, guys like JTR might already offer some specific partnerships or at minimum, would be open to the idea.

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post #246 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 01:45 AM
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This is something i've waited years. Time to trade SB13 for bigger finally. Thumbs up SVS. Hope you guys find new partner in Europe soon. There's loyal customers here allso.

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post #247 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 02:57 AM
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Hmmm.. I'm not sure what to think about the mixed reactions here. I mean, aren't many of you the same people who were asking for a bigger SVS sub for several years now?

Sure there are some things on their new subs that looks a little bit skeptical and their marketing approach in the last couple of years has been a little different as to what they were before. But in reality, what do you want of them? Isn't the bottom line that their products remain great for those who buy them?

So far in the last 5-8 years, there hasn't been a "disappointing" product from SVS thus far. That's a good track record there, if you compare it relatively to other companies. True there are better performing products out there at the same or lower price poing than SVS (from both speakers and subs), not denying that but I think SVS is in a very good place right now.

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post #248 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
True,

I use birch plywood, not solid birch. The plies avoid the resonance of wood just as MDF does but is much, much stronger than MDF. If I was going to build a box for someone else, MDF is much easier to deal with as it cuts like buttah! It is fine as long as you don't plan on moving your speakers around, having them fall off stands or fall off the wall. However, I tend to have this bad habit of gravity testing my speakers and plywood works the best for long term durability. Nothing worse than stripping a screw in MDF.

A double 3/4" thick bezel makes mounting the drivers much more secure and it gives extra space for magnets for magnetic grills. Throw some bracing in there and my cabinets are ready for decades of abuse and can be bounced off the floor or hit with water without issues.

One of my little quirks, once you get above a certain price points--I prefer birch plywood. Must be the experience from my PA days, MDF was a horrible thing to carry around and did not like rain storms and other chaos that comes with summer outdoor events.

I can understand why SVS went with MDF, put the money where it counts (driver and amp) and don't waste it on where it don't. Not easy to get a piano finish on plywood so...

Should be interesting to see the numbers roll out on the 16, I wonder if the 8" VC with huge Xmax really kills the efficiency--we will soon find out.

I see your point now


You use something similar to this;
http://www.windsorplywood.com/Baltic_Birch_Plywood.aspx
It is a marine grade plywood.


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post #249 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
True,

I use birch plywood, not solid birch. The plies avoid the resonance of wood just as MDF does but is much, much stronger than MDF. If I was going to build a box for someone else, MDF is much easier to deal with as it cuts like buttah! It is fine as long as you don't plan on moving your speakers around, having them fall off stands or fall off the wall. However, I tend to have this bad habit of gravity testing my speakers and plywood works the best for long term durability. Nothing worse than stripping a screw in MDF.

A double 3/4" thick bezel makes mounting the drivers much more secure and it gives extra space for magnets for magnetic grills. Throw some bracing in there and my cabinets are ready for decades of abuse and can be bounced off the floor or hit with water without issues.

One of my little quirks, once you get above a certain price points--I prefer birch plywood. Must be the experience from my PA days, MDF was a horrible thing to carry around and did not like rain storms and other chaos that comes with summer outdoor events.

I can understand why SVS went with MDF, put the money where it counts (driver and amp) and don't waste it on where it don't. Not easy to get a piano finish on plywood so...

Should be interesting to see the numbers roll out on the 16, I wonder if the 8" VC with huge Xmax really kills the efficiency--we will soon find out.
Birch makes sense for PA, but less so for HT subs because:

1. HT subs do not get moved around like PA, so the lighter weight is only used one time.
2. Since HT subs are not moved to different venues, they are not exposed to weather. Never have had any of my subs or speakers exposed to water.
3. HT subs used in non dedicated rooms need a nice finish. Much harder to do with Birch vs MDF.
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post #250 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 06:38 AM
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I think its safe to safe to say SVS is no longer an ID company. They are evolving, on their current path they could be come common place like polk or klipsch speakers and subs. Quality subs for the masses who dont realize that polk sub really isnt as good as the floor guys tells them or the bose acoustimass for that matter.

At least someone has the opportunity to walk in a brick and mortar and walk out with something of real value, even if they dont realize it.
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post #251 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I think its safe to safe to say SVS is no longer an ID company. They are evolving, on their current path they could be come common place like polk or klipsch speakers and subs. Quality subs for the masses who dont realize that polk sub really isnt as good as the floor guys tells them or the bose acoustimass for that matter.

At least someone has the opportunity to walk in a brick and mortar and walk out with something of real value, even if they dont realize it.
SVS may not be the best deal in the sub market, but I hardly think they've become Nose or even Polk. SVS subs are still fantastic subs even if they aren't the best deal out there.

I'm curious to see if SVS comes out with a cylinder model. The availability of the cylinders is a huge reason I chose SVS for my theater.

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post #252 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 07:08 AM
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I just purchased my first SVS product, the Ultra center channel which just arrived yesterday. The experience as a first time customer was A+ dealing with them directly. I can see why this is a such a popular company.

great timing for this release as a sub upgrade was next and this will fit perfect in my room.
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post #253 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I think its safe to safe to say SVS is no longer an ID company. They are evolving, on their current path they could be come common place like polk or klipsch speakers and subs. Quality subs for the masses who dont realize that polk sub really isnt as good as the floor guys tells them or the bose acoustimass for that matter.

At least someone has the opportunity to walk in a brick and mortar and walk out with something of real value, even if they dont realize it.
As long as I can call SVS and continue to have knowledgeable conversations with SVS employees then I have no problem with who they let sell their products. But when I call them and try to ask them about a speaker or sub and I have a hard time understanding the guy and said guy clearly doesn't know about the product I am talking about, then I will say SVS is no longer ID.

But like others have said, including owners from other companies, SVS isn't going to cater to the needs of this small community with large cone drivers and in your case, staying only ID.

+1 they are growing.

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post #254 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Birch makes sense for PA, but less so for HT subs because:
2. Since HT subs are not moved to different venues, they are not exposed to weather. Never have had any of my subs or speakers exposed to water.
While not a huge concern, if you live in a high-humidity area, you have to be careful about storing MDF products in a non-climate-controlled garage or storage facility. MDF is like a sponge.
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post #255 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 08:34 AM
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Guess plenty of SB13 U's will be up sale.
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post #256 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 08:48 AM
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Guess plenty of SB13 U's will be up sale.
Indeed.... And PB13-Ultra's as well. I must admit, the idea of upgrading is enticing. Having to sell my 13-Ultras locally will be a hassle. However, I chatted with a SVS rep yesterday and he told me their upcoming trade-in program will not only be for up to 1-year owners. I got my 13-Ultras back in 2013/2014 and he told me I'll be able to trade-in for the new 16-Ultra. Decisions, decisions... dunno! I am still pretty happy with my 3 13-Ultras.

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post #257 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 08:54 AM
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Yeah these subs are sure to be a temptation that will be hard for many to resist. I know for certain if I had 13-Ultras I would be looking to trade them in and get this new sub. You won't get an opportunity like this very often. It's a cheap (relatively speaking) way to get this sub into your home. This is a great perk that SVS offers, I would take advantage of it.
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post #258 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post
Indeed.... And PB13-Ultra's as well. I must admit, the idea of upgrading is enticing. Having to sell my 13-Ultras locally will be a hassle. However, I chatted with a SVS rep yesterday and he told me their upcoming trade-in program will not only be for up to 1-year owners. I got my 13-Ultras back in 2013/2014 and he told me I'll be able to trade-in for the new 16-Ultra. Decisions, decisions... dunno! I am still pretty happy with my 3 13-Ultras.
I sold my SB13U a few weeks ago. It had replaced a SB12 NSD that was great for my bedroom. The SB13U never sounded right in my bedroom, seemed bloated to just too big maybe. Now have a SB12 1000 that also works great. Maybe you can have too much sub for a small room?I about gave away the SB13U with s set of pricey speakers i sold. Maybe the 16 would be too much also for a 13 x14 room.
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post #259 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 09:21 AM
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I think it is less a matter of room size and more a matter of personal preference. And, sometimes our preferences can be influenced slightly by what we are accustomed to hearing.

There are people on the Forum who have 8 18" subs in 1500^3 and others who have one 12" sub in 4500^3. If you go to the ULF Home Theater Score thread, you will see tremendous disparity in subwoofage compared to room volume, with the balance tilted toward more on that particular thread.

I agree with Hopinater, that for current PB13 owners, upgrading is a pretty easy decision. I talked to Jack at SVS yesterday. Like most of us, he is a sub enthusiast as well as an SVS representative. He said that as a PB13 owner, he could attest to the difference between the two. That, listening to them side-by-side, the new PB16 has not only much more authority (due presumably to the lower port tune) but also has an improved sound quality. He said there is a substantial difference, and he will also be upgrading. The sub has been in development for a number of years, so it wouldn't be too surprising that they weren't just going for more output, and a lower port tune.

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post #260 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 09:38 AM
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Yesterday their website said 78mm peak to peak excursion, today it is 95

I'm not talking about the kind of speakers you just listen to, I'm talking about the kind of sound you can feel.
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post #261 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
I sold my SB13U a few weeks ago. It had replaced a SB12 NSD that was great for my bedroom. The SB13U never sounded right in my bedroom, seemed bloated to just too big maybe. Now have a SB12 1000 that also works great. Maybe you can have too much sub for a small room?I about gave away the SB13U with s set of pricey speakers i sold. Maybe the 16 would be too much also for a 13 x14 room.
I have multiple 18s in an even smaller room.
I regret nothing.

You just need to be able to see what your sub(s) are doing through some type of software such as REW. That way you can properly set delays and other EQ parameters. Not only that, but a single sub suffers from room modes while duals help smooth those out (room modes will still exist, just not as drastic and most can be EQd out).
If you were happy with the bass output of the SB13U, maybe had plenty of output left of the table, then even dual SB12s might be preferred over a single 13U

Edit: I suppose I fall into the category in post number 259
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post #262 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 10:27 AM
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I have multiple 18s in an even smaller room.
I regret nothing.

You just need to be able to see what your sub(s) are doing through some type of software such as REW. That way you can properly set delays and other EQ parameters. Not only that, but a single sub suffers from room modes while duals help smooth those out (room modes will still exist, just not as drastic and most can be EQd out).
If you were happy with the bass output of the SB13U, maybe had plenty of output left of the table, then even dual SB12s might be preferred over a single 13U

Edit: I suppose I fall into the category in post number 259

Even aside from issues of proper set-up, and optimum frequency response, I think it's really tough to predict what someone else is going to like. For instance, most of us seem to prefer a rising bass response, so most people add some sub trim after a system of automated EQ sets sub trim levels. But, occasionally people report that they prefer leaving the sub trim alone, or even prefer to reduce the flat trim setting. So, preferences seem to vary a lot.

Like you, I would prefer to have a lot of bass headroom on tap. And, sometimes I use a lot of it, too.
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post #263 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 10:34 AM
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What does this mean? Is there some sort of rulebook that must be followed? They made a driver with the performance they wanted, and people are unhappy it doesn't follow the standard 12-18-21-24 progression or look like a typical huge black box?

Jesus, if you'd read down a few Posts, it was just a satire post man. Relax.

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post #264 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 11:05 AM
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Jesus, if you'd read down a few Posts, it was just a satire post man. Relax.
LOL - I thought the same thing
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post #265 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
What does this mean? Is there some sort of rulebook that must be followed? They made a driver with the performance they wanted, and people are unhappy it doesn't follow the standard 12-18-21-24 progression or look like a typical huge black box?
SVS has a 10 and 12"..shame on them. How dare they conform.

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post #266 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 11:40 AM
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...it seems that I am the only guy who has heard one or seen one....I was in a private showing at CES 2016 and talked with the engineer. This SB-16 threw a lot of articulate air. In the flesh, it was a sexy looking beast. I was extremely impressed and I sat down with the designer and he said it spanked the incredible SB-13 Ultra. I was planning on ordering 2, JLF212 V2's for my large room in our AZ home. Instead, I am going to using 2, SB-16U's. I already put 40, SB-16U's on order. I'll have 1/2 of them pre-sold in a week.
Steve as you are the only one on this forum to post that you have heard one and as a AV dealer that carries some well respected brands (like Mark Levinson, Krell, GoldenEar, JLAudio, Martin Logan, Revel, etc) can you tell us more about what impressed you about the SB16? How long was your listening session, what type of music/movies did you audition, how was the room setup, did you get to hear both the SB16 and PB16?

I know that you stated earlier that the SB16 "threw a lot of articulate air" but what other qualities grabbed your attention? Did SVS share any preliminary test numbers they had on comparing the SB13 to the SB16 (extension, SPL, distortion) or did they just say that it "spanked" the SB-13 Ultra, as you posted above?

On the surface stating you were going to purchase (2) JLF212 V2's for your personal use (at a combined retail price of $14,000) but decided to purchase (2) SB16U (at a combined retail price of $4,000) is a fairly bold statement since you rep both product lines, so wonder if you could articulate more on why you're going with the SB16s?

So while we wait for data, our own Ultra 16 subs, and professional reviews, any more details you can provide on what you have experienced with the Ultra 16 subs is greatly appreciated, even if you're using audio memories from an listening session 10 months ago.
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post #267 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 11:44 AM
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Even aside from issues of proper set-up, and optimum frequency response, I think it's really tough to predict what someone else is going to like. For instance, most of us seem to prefer a rising bass response, so most people add some sub trim after a system of automated EQ sets sub trim levels. But, occasionally people report that they prefer leaving the sub trim alone, or even prefer to reduce the flat trim setting. So, preferences seem to vary a lot.

Like you, I would prefer to have a lot of bass headroom on tap. And, sometimes I use a lot of it, too.
I always have to adjust speaker size to small and up the sub some after i do a auto cal with the Pioneer Elite AVR's. The little SB1000 does very good.

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post #268 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 11:48 AM
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Yesterday their website said 78mm peak to peak excursion, today it is 95
It is 78mm for the SB16U and 95mm for the PB16U. It's 2 different drivers.
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post #269 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 12:27 PM
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In addition to SteveH most well worded post I think SVS wanted to get into a different market with custom designed theaters and not just a cult type following. The new boss is from m a succesful retail background so he knows a thing or two about the different business models.

I agree this will be a good move into some diversification but their bread and butter will still be direct sales.

I do wonder what if any differences in the final product in what StevH heard vs. what will be shipped n X the month. In my limited experience (AV is not my only business interest) that not much changes once you get 3-4 months out from release.

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post #270 of 3934 Old 10-08-2016, 01:16 PM
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Steve as you are the only one on this forum to post that you have heard one and as a AV dealer that carries some well respected brands (like Mark Levinson, Krell, GoldenEar, JLAudio, Martin Logan, Revel, etc) can you tell us more about what impressed you about the SB16? How long was your listening session, what type of music/movies did you audition, how was the room setup, did you get to hear both the SB16 and PB16?

I know that you stated earlier that the SB16 "threw a lot of articulate air" but what other qualities grabbed your attention? Did SVS share any preliminary test numbers they had on comparing the SB13 to the SB16 (extension, SPL, distortion) or did they just say that it "spanked" the SB-13 Ultra, as you posted above?

On the surface stating you were going to purchase (2) JLF212 V2's for your personal use (at a combined retail price of $13,400) but decided to purchase (2) SB16U (at a combined retail price of $4,000) is a fairly bold statement since you rep both product lines, so wonder if you could articulate more on why you're going with the SB16s?

So while we wait for data, our own Ultra 16 subs, and professional reviews, any more details you can provide on what you have experienced with the Ultra 16 subs is greatly appreciated, even if you're using audio memories from an listening session 10 months ago.
Disclaimer: I didn't have a clear and obvious reference point. Meaning it was a different room on a different day with a different movie using different speakers and a different processor than I have. So for all practical purposes, it is impossible to benchmark the SB-16U versus what I've been using which is the SB-13U. That said, the demo room was a large hotel room suite. The sub reached down DEEP and it shook my chest hairs with a lot of impact. It have some impact even in that crappy room. This was CES 2016 (10 months ago). I was under a NDA so my lips have been sealed. No offense to the SB-13Ultra (I own one) but I could not throw that much air. Nor could it go that deep. I've sold a lot of SB-13U's and I love them. This was different in a good way.

Re: the JL212's. I quickly resigned myself to the fact that I needed to get a whole lot more woofage than the 2, SB-13's for my 18' (wide) x26' (deep) x 14' ceiling living room. I bought a home in the PHX area at the bottom of the crash at a mere $52 a square foot (3700 square foot 2006 built home in a very nice neighborhood; yea I stole it!). Anyways, I tried 1 PB-13U just to hear it as normally I simply do not like ported subs. I heard some overhang and it bothered me. When I plugged the ports and re-tuned (same exact position), it certainly had more output than the SB-13U and it went deeper and louder. I like it but having 2 of them just wouldn't look right to my eyes. I really needed 2 compact powerhouses. I never ever try and shake the walls. Only my couch @ reference levels +3 db. Since I think the footprint of the JL212 was a whole lot nicer for MY situation (driver closer to the wall), I figured that I had to pay the piper. Then I got a dinner invite with the SVS boys and later they took me into a room and showed me their new toy. I absolutely LOVED the looks. The sculptured display really was sexy to my eye. I appreciated that they put the front controls on too. While it was bigger to the eye versus the SB-13U, it would be a perfect fit. I needed about 4 more db output and I would be fine with 2 of these.

I had a chance to chat with the engineer in charge of the project. He gave me an overview. When I looked him in the eye and asked how it compared, he was bold and confident with his answer that the 16U was the real deal.

That all said, I've been to shows and talked with designers before. A conversation with the Energy Veritas comes to mind. On paper, he blew me away with everything he did/said. But after I bought a pair to demo, my ears didn't agree with his description. So evidently that Veritas designed didn't execute on the crossover or something. I can copy and paste this story many times with other examples. So I have a saying: the specs I pay closest attention to are not XMAX, driver area, types of cabinet or what kind of amp plate they used. The specs I care about are subjective sound quality, looks, price, output, and reliability. This SVS demo was different. I heard it. I liked it a lot. SVS has a policy that if people don't like it, send it back. So they were incredible confident. Having 2 kids in college (medical school and dental school) meant I had to pay attention to the $$'s. So that's the reason I'm stoked. So I have been dreaming of this new sub for a very long time and have been patiently waiting for them to deliver the final version.

But no. I didn't ask nor did I care to know the specific specs. I simply need more than enough base to excite my room. The design wasn't finished so whatever he said would have changed. That all said, I MIGHT be forced to go with 2, PB-16's. I understand this ported design sounds better. But I really want the smaller SB-16U's to work. While rewiring for ATMOS, I'll be wiring for 4 subs in case I go that route (4 SB-16U's). I won't know that answer for awhile.

I'm not sure if that helps. But that's what I heard and why I am getting these for my system.

Steve (Owner) Sound Video
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