At What Point Do I "Play" With The 0/180 Phase Switch On Dayton 1500 SUB? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-30-2016, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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At What Point Do I "Play" With The 0/180 Phase Switch On Dayton 1500 SUB?

According to the subs manual, I am supposed to adjust the phase switch based on what provides the most accurate bass output(not even sure how I would measure this). I have a Denon AVR-S710W 7.2-Ch receiver that it's paired with. At what point in the process do I adjust the phase switch? I am going to be doing a sub crawl and setting up my HT tomorrow with Audysey.
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-30-2016, 08:24 PM
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Audyssey should correct the delay so it does not matter. If it gives you an "out of phase" error, flip the switch, but in reality it won't make any difference. Nor will it matter for the sub crawl.
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-01-2016, 10:53 AM
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You should leave the phase set to 0 on the sub, but you can improve response over the crossover post-Audyssey by adjusting the subwoofer distance in the AVR. Here is a write up I did awhile ago on performing the sub distance tweak with basic tools:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you don't have measuring equipment, the distance tweak can be done with an SPL meter (or SPL app on a smartphone) and test tones downloadable from the internet, available on YouTube, from a test disc or with REW (free download).

  • For the Center Channel, set your AVR to the Dolby PLII surround mode, you should be getting output from the CC + sub(s) only
  • For the FL/FR channels, set your AVR to the Stereo surround mode, you should be getting output from the FL/FR + sub(s) only
  • Invert phase on your subwoofer(s)
  • Play a sine wave that corresponds to your crossover frequency (i.e. 80hz) and measure the output with the SPL meter about a foot in front of your face at the MLP
  • Gradually increase the sub distance setting in the AVR in 1' increments (on some AVRs you must make sure to back out of the distance setting menu before the new setting will take effect)
  • The sub distance setting that gives you the lowest SPL reading is the setting you want (you can tweak further in smaller increments if you want to, but I have found that 1' increments is usually sufficient)
  • Invert the phase on your sub again and you are done
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-10-2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

  • For the Center Channel, set your AVR to the Dolby PLII surround mode, you should be getting output from the CC + sub(s) only
  • For the FL/FR channels, set your AVR to the Stereo surround mode, you should be getting output from the FL/FR + sub(s) only
Alan, which of these two options would be preferred?

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post #5 of 24 Old 01-10-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post
Alan, which of these two options would be preferred?
Depends.

If the system is mostly music, use one of the front speakers. If the system is mostly movies, use the CC.

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post #6 of 24 Old 01-11-2017, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You should leave the phase set to 0 on the sub, but you can improve response over the crossover post-Audyssey by adjusting the subwoofer distance in the AVR. Here is a write up I did awhile ago on performing the sub distance tweak with basic tools:
I did it a bit differently - not sure if this is flawed in any way?
1. Played tone at my crossover frequency (100Hz) out of LCR and both subs at the same time.
2. Not touching any phase switch I changed both sub distances until I got MAX DB.

What I landed up was both sub distances set 2.6ft CLOSER. This resulted in a + 4DB in the tone.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-11-2017, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevbo123 View Post
I did it a bit differently - not sure if this is flawed in any way?
1. Played tone at my crossover frequency (100Hz) out of LCR and both subs at the same time.
2. Not touching any phase switch I changed both sub distances until I got MAX DB.

What I landed up was both sub distances set 2.6ft CLOSER. This resulted in a + 4DB in the tone.
Mostly fine, but;

- Looking for the null is easier than looking for the peak, this is why reversing phase on the sub is a good idea
- You should only use one of those three speakers (my above post says to use FR+FL and that is incorrect )

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post #8 of 24 Old 01-11-2017, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
- You should only use one of those three speakers (my above post says to use FR+FL and that is incorrect )
Thanks. Whats the reasoning around just using one of the LCR?
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-11-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevbo123 View Post
Thanks. Whats the reasoning around just using one of the LCR?
Two main reasons;

1) Rarely, if ever is the exact same audio output from more than one speaker at a time in real world use
2) Playing the exact same content from more than one speaker can cause issues with comb filtering

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-12-2017, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Two main reasons;

1) Rarely, if ever is the exact same audio output from more than one speaker at a time in real world use
2) Playing the exact same content from more than one speaker can cause issues with comb filtering
So after doing this I've gained about +5DB at the crossover point. I dont know what exactly this means in terms of overall sound quality from my system but the gain on paper is impressive nevertheless.
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-12-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kevbo123 View Post
So after doing this I've gained about +5DB at the crossover point. I dont know what exactly this means in terms of overall sound quality from my system but the gain on paper is impressive nevertheless.
It means that your mains (or CC, depending on which you used) are now in-phase with your sub(s). You most likely had a large dip over the crossover region and now you do not. That frequency response region should sound much better now.

I've attached one of my own more extreme examples of what the distance tweak can do.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-23-2017, 01:37 PM
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Alan, I would like to play with this with my 2 subs, 1 of which is already set to 180 out. How would I best go about this?
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 08:50 AM
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Sorry, I haven't been on the forums in a few days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Alan, I would like to play with this with my 2 subs, 1 of which is already set to 180 out. How would I best go about this?
Did you see post #3? If that doesn't answer your question, let me know!

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post #14 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 10:27 AM
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Hi Alan, thought maybe you headed out on vacation?. I don't have audesy, i run dual mono subs currently each sub is set at the physical distance to the mlp, setting 1 sub 180 degrees out gives me a nice 5 db increase on highest volume with a measurement sweep and the spectrogram. Would you recommend running each sub seperately for setting the distance with the crossover measurement?
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Hi Alan, thought maybe you headed out on vacation?. I don't have audesy, i run dual mono subs currently each sub is set at the physical distance to the mlp, setting 1 sub 180 degrees out gives me a nice 5 db increase on highest volume with a measurement sweep and the spectrogram. Would you recommend running each sub seperately for setting the distance with the crossover measurement?
What AVR or pre-pro are you using? Does it allow you to set separate distances for each sub? Does it not have any sort of automated setup routine??

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post #16 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 12:07 PM
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Xmc-1 and also a mini-dsp 2 by 4, xmc has dirac, xmc has dual mono sub outs with independent measurement. Set the time delay in minidsp to smoothest response with time delay. From there a polarity switch in 1 sub produced the 5db volume increase
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 01:32 PM
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Hmmm...well, if you set the delay correctly in the MiniDSP (have you read AustinJerry's MiniDSP guide?), then there should be no need for you to adjust phase on the subwoofer.

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post #18 of 24 Old 02-27-2017, 04:22 PM
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I have read it, perhaps it is time to revisit it. I will endeavor to persevere
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-28-2017, 12:34 PM
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Found my error regarding 180 degree phase, sorry Alan. I will totter along now?
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-28-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Found my error regarding 180 degree phase, sorry Alan. I will totter along now?
No need to totter along, it's all good.

If you don't mind, could you post what your error was...? It would be nice for others to know if they happen to have the same issue.

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post #21 of 24 Old 02-28-2017, 05:32 PM
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I had set the time delay for the wrong sub?
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post #22 of 24 Old 12-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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hi guys,

i'm newby but i'm trying to learn about MBM and i need your help with my setup.

i have two Rythmiks LVX12s in the front wall and i love the superb SQ they bring me but i want more rumble (TR) because this is a HT only setup.

after reading this thread i realize that i need a beheringer B1200d NF, so i bought one and placed it on the back wall next to the recliner. i also bought a miniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1 and download REW.

I already read the Austin Jerry guide for REW. I seem to have everything i need to start measuring and adjusting things but the problem is that i don't know where to start.

maybe i have to run audyssey first then REW and last the miniDSP??

please i need your help to organize the steps to follow.

i have:
2 kefs Q100 (L/R)
kef Q200 (CC)
2 NHTs Superzero 2.1 (SL/SR)
Denon S720w
2 Rythmik LVX12s

thanks in advance...
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post #23 of 24 Old 12-14-2017, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post
hi guys,

i'm newby but i'm trying to learn about MBM and i need your help with my setup.

i have two Rythmiks LVX12s in the front wall and i love the superb SQ they bring me but i want more rumble (TR) because this is a HT only setup.

after reading this thread i realize that i need a beheringer B1200d NF, so i bought one and placed it on the back wall next to the recliner. i also bought a miniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1 and download REW.

I already read the Austin Jerry guide for REW. I seem to have everything i need to start measuring and adjusting things but the problem is that i don't know where to start.

maybe i have to run audyssey first then REW and last the miniDSP??

please i need your help to organize the steps to follow.

i have:
2 kefs Q100 (L/R)
kef Q200 (CC)
2 NHTs Superzero 2.1 (SL/SR)
Denon S720w
2 Rythmik LVX12s

thanks in advance...
First of all, what are you planning to do with the MiniDSP? Are you going to use it for the 1200D only, or are you planning on EQ'ing your current subs as well?

If your current subwoofers are going to stay where they are, there is really no reason for you to take Audyssey measurements with REW.

Do not re-run Audyssey after you connect the 1200D, usually you want to only add in the MBM after you have run Audyssey.

You might be better off re-posting this in the MBM thread. You will get more eyes on it that way.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...-response.html

And after you have some REW measurements, post those in the REW thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html

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post #24 of 24 Old 12-14-2017, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post
hi guys,

i'm newby but i'm trying to learn about MBM and i need your help with my setup.

i have two Rythmiks LVX12s in the front wall and i love the superb SQ they bring me but i want more rumble (TR) because this is a HT only setup.

after reading this thread i realize that i need a beheringer B1200d NF, so i bought one and placed it on the back wall next to the recliner. i also bought a miniDSP 2x4HD, UMIK-1 and download REW.

I already read the Austin Jerry guide for REW. I seem to have everything i need to start measuring and adjusting things but the problem is that i don't know where to start.

maybe i have to run audyssey first then REW and last the miniDSP??

please i need your help to organize the steps to follow.

i have:
2 kefs Q100 (L/R)
kef Q200 (CC)
2 NHTs Superzero 2.1 (SL/SR)
Denon S720w
2 Rythmik LVX12s

thanks in advance...
First of all, what are you planning to do with the MiniDSP? Are you going to use it for the 1200D only, or are you planning on EQ'ing your current subs as well?

If your current subwoofers are going to stay where they are, there is really no reason for you to take Audyssey measurements with REW.

Do not re-run Audyssey after you connect the 1200D, usually you want to only add in the MBM after you have run Audyssey.

You might be better off re-posting this in the MBM thread. You will get more eyes on it that way. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...-response.html

And after you have some REW measurements, post those in the REW thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html
thanks alan, my bad
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