Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread - Page 158 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4711 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 06:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi schwaggs,

I have watched this movie in the past, can not remember if it was pre or post Dragon nesting. Since I think you are only referencing the first 10 seconds of sinewave stuff, I watched it again this morning after the Wife left for work (Just moments ago)

First run at -20 MV, Sub LFA 8&9, No port noise whatsoever.

Second run at -15 MV, again no port noise or chuffing. House and floor shook, walls rattled and glass doors slightly flexed.

Third run at -10 MV, no noticeable port noise or chuffing. House and floor heaved, walls flexed and strained, It was so loud it made me squint and hold hands over my ears. If the subs were chuffing, there is no way anyone will ever hear it over the bass. Pretty insane intro. Definitely an attention getter.

After watching the intro, I now believe I had watched this movie pre Dragon(s) So I plan to watch it again from start to finish sometime today/tomorrow. If I keep finding these hidden gems causing a growing backlog of Movies I need to re-watch, I will never be able to leave the house again!
Love it Adam, you have enough headroom in those beasts to tackle anything you throw at them.
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post #4712 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Are you sure? Which receiver do you have?

Mine does the same thing, I have to do a minimum of 3 measurements. I wonder if it is because we do not have surround speakers. I just have an LRC and I believe David just has LR.

Edit: I have a Marantz 7702mk2 and also a Marantz 5010 and both do the same thing in regards to 3 mic positions before they let me save the settings.

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post #4713 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
I typically watch action movies at -10db. I find some movie mixes are a a little hot or cooler so some are -5 other -15 dB.
I do the same. Although my default listening level for movies is -10dB, I will adjust it to taste, depending on the individual soundtrack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Hi schwaggs,

I have watched this movie Edge of Tomorrow in the past, can not remember if it was pre or post Dragon nesting. Since I think you are only referencing the first 10 seconds of sinewave stuff, I watched it again this morning after the Wife left for work (Just moments ago)

First run at -20 MV, Sub LFA 8&9, No port noise whatsoever.

Second run at -15 MV, again no port noise or chuffing. House and floor shook, walls rattled and glass doors slightly flexed.

Third run at -10 MV, no noticeable port noise or chuffing. House and floor heaved, walls flexed and strained, It was so loud it made me squint and hold hands over my ears. If the subs were chuffing, there is no way anyone will ever hear it over the bass. Pretty insane intro. Definitely an attention getter.

After watching the intro, I now believe I had watched this movie pre Dragon(s) So I plan to watch it again from start to finish sometime today/tomorrow. If I keep finding these hidden gems causing a growing backlog of Movies I need to re-watch, I will never be able to leave the house again!
What you describe is exactly how my dual Rythmik FV18s react to the notorious LFE in the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow. With the system volume set at -10dB, the FV18s don't chuff but the plantation shutters on my windows and the door into the master bedroom shake, rattle, and roll loudly. My house is on a slab so at least the floors remain quiet.
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post #4714 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:03 AM
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Failed to mention in my earlier post that yesterday I rechecked the SPL I was getting with REW's builtin SPL meter and a UMIK-1 high sensitivity microphone. I used the TrueHD Atmos soundtrack on Mad Max: Fury Road as the test subject. The SPL ran between about 80 dB and a little over 100dB. That listening level lets me feel the physical impact of low LFE but doesn't burst my eardrums.

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post #4715 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
MV stands for master volume and the unit is dB... so MV -15 or -15 MV is just master volume at -15dB...

I think you are correct.
DOH! Here I thought MV was MiliVolts! Thanks for clarifying Chucky! Sooner or later I'll get all the forum lingo down...
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post #4716 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
....

If the subs were chuffing, there is no way anyone will ever hear it over the bass. Pretty insane intro. Definitely an attention getter.

After watching the intro, I now believe I had watched this movie pre Dragon(s) So I plan to watch it again from start to finish sometime today/tomorrow. If I keep finding these hidden gems causing a growing backlog of Movies I need to re-watch, I will never be able to leave the house again!
Hmmmm... I clearly hear chuffing on the EoT "test tones" on my single in my 3800cf room. I didn't run it more than once at each volume, I just didn't see the point of the passage. I'll queue it up again today and explore more. Maybe the obvious solution is to add a second 2400....

You never hear anything that low in the rest of the movie. I really enjoyed the surround soundtrack in EoT. Sounds were coming from everywhere. Nice sound mix on this one.
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post #4717 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I wasn't impressed with Fate of the Furious also... I have learned to search in the Ultimate List of Bass Movies first...

Really, what do you expect from this???

Now, Kong: Skull Island, on the other hand, is AWESOME. I watched it couple weeks ago.

The LF Adjust @ Boost will make a huge difference in this movie .
Thank you Chucky - the master of all visual aids! Can you give me or point me to the crib notes version of what these movie graphs mean? Are they a summation of the seconds at each frequency in the movie or something? Whats the difference between the red and green lines?
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post #4718 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscool View Post
Edit: I have a Marantz 7702mk2 and also a Marantz 5010 and both do the same thing in regards to 3 mic positions before they let me save the settings.
Strange! I have the Denon and it sure lets me save the cal after the 1st mic measurement. Marantz and Denon are owned by the same company so they should be very similar.
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post #4719 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Strange! I have the Denon and it sure lets me save the cal after the 1st mic measurement. Marantz and Denon are owned by the same company so they should be very similar.
What model do you have? The newer XT-32 units require 3 positions.
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post #4720 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
MV stands for master volume and the unit is dB... so MV -15 or -15 MV is just master volume at -15dB...
Thanks for explaining "MV." As I confessed in an earlier post, it's a term I have never used so didn't really know what it meant. Guess I'm pretty unscientific but I let my Yamaha 3060's YPAO utility set the reference output for my system. Then, I used a UMIK-1 and REW to integrate my subs with the rest of the system. The results of all this have been that at my usual listening level, -10dB on the 3060's volume control, on a good Atmos soundtrack, Mad Max: Fury Road, for example, the SPL runs between about 80dB and a little over 100dB, This lets me feel as well as hear the low frequencies but the volume doesn't (quite) blow my brains out, either. Anyway, these days movie watching, and listening, in my home theater is really fun.
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post #4721 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
What model do you have? The newer XT-32 units require 3 positions.
Older one: the x4000.
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post #4722 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
I wasn't impressed with Fate of the Furious also... I have learned to search in the Ultimate List of Bass Movies first...

Really, what do you expect from this???



Now, Kong: Skull Island, on the other hand, is AWESOME. I watched it couple weeks ago.



The LF Adjust @ Boost will make a huge difference in this movie .
I never saw the graph for Fate of the Furious in that thread until i was shown after my post,,,,, i guess i just missed the page it was on. It's a shame to have action sequences like that with no ULF. I have no interest re-watching StarTrek Beyond for the same reason> Dont know how they dropped the ball on that one considering what the first two had to offer.

Kong, Scull Island is on my list for next Tuesday as i did see that graph MrGrey posted a while back. It looks like it will give my house all it can handle.
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post #4723 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I would also. After the comparisons sans Audyssey.


The beast has arrived. Now need to run home from work.....all of a sudden I don't feel well....


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post #4724 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
My audyssey won't save any results until I do three mic positions


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post #4725 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I never saw the graph for Fate of the Furious in that thread until i was shown after my post,,,,, i guess i just missed the page it was on. It's a shame to have action sequences like that with no ULF. I have no interest re-watching StarTrek Beyond for the same reason> Dont know how they dropped the ball on that one considering what the first two had to offer.

Kong, Scull Island is on my list for next Tuesday as i did see that graph MrGrey posted a while back. It looks like it will give my house all it can handle.
For obvious reasons, I will be passing on Fate of the Furious. Can highly recommend Kong: Skull Island, though. It's not a great film by quite a bit but its LFE is tremendous and I ended up enjoying it and not regretting my purchase.
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post #4726 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwaggs View Post
Thank you Chucky - the master of all visual aids! Can you give me or point me to the crib notes version of what these movie graphs mean? Are they a summation of the seconds at each frequency in the movie or something? Whats the difference between the red and green lines?
Those graphs are called PvA: Peak vs Average

When MrGrey gets hold of the movie, he would extract the audio track and run analysis on that. Green is the peak level, and Red is the average level. At the bottom is the frequency and at the right is the loudness. Usually we use the peak to quantify the movie's extension. I think a lot of movies have averages @ -45dB.

Mad Max Fury Road:



Notice that the red line goes as high as -33dB and the peak goes as high as -7dB? This means the movie is super hot. Adjust the MV accordingly. In fact, the cops came when I was watching it on a Friday night.

Edge of Tomorrow:



The first 40 seconds contains 30Hz, 25 Hz, 20 Hz, 15 Hz, and 10 Hz sine waves that go to -7dB. No wonder it will make chuffmasters out of subs. The rest of the movie hovers around -50dB, so the movie is actually mixed low,

Kong: Scull Island:


It has decent amount of bass, with averages of 45dB from 17 to 33 Hz. The 17 Hz peak is at -13dB so it might induce chuffing for lesser subs out there. It is a 1 Hz movie.

As for the extension of a movie, look at the peak and deduct 10dB from that. For Kong, the 17 Hz peak is at -13dB and -23dB falls at 11 Hz or so. Then look to the left, 1 Hz is louder than -23dB. Therefore this is a 1 Hz movie.

Hope this helps.

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post #4727 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Those graphs are called PvA: Peak vs Average

When MrGrey gets hold of the movie, he would extract the audio track and run analysis on that. Green is the peak level, and Red is the average level. At the bottom is the frequency and at the right is the loudness. Usually we use the peak to quantify the movie's extension. I think a lot of movies have averages @ -45dB.

Mad Max Fury Road:



Notice that the red line goes as high as -33dB and the peak goes as high as -7dB? This means the movie is super hot. Adjust the MV accordingly. In fact, the cops came when I was watching it on a Friday night.

Edge of Tomorrow:



The first 40 seconds contains 30Hz, 25 Hz, 20 Hz, 15 Hz, and 10 Hz sine waves that go to -7dB. No wonder it will make chuffmasters out of subs. The rest of the movie hovers around -50dB, so the movie is actually mixed low,

Kong: Scull Island:


It has decent amount of bass, with averages of 45dB from 17 to 33 Hz. The 17 Hz peak is at -13dB so it might induce chuffing for lesser subs out there. It is a 1 Hz movie.

As for the extension of a movie, look at the peak and deduct 10dB from that. For Kong, the 17 Hz peak is at -13dB and -23dB falls at 11 Hz or so. Then look to the left, 1 Hz is louder than -23dB. Therefore this is a 1 Hz movie.

Hope this helps.
1Hz Thankfully Jeff's DSP programming is very good at protecting JTR subs.
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post #4728 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 11:19 AM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFE Junkie View Post
I can just barely (not much at all) feel my seats vibrate, but don't hear anything at 10. Same goes for the 15hz tone, but my seats feel like massage chairs and ALOT more movement. At 15hz, i feel like my ears are needing to be popped (pressurization). I had the Main Volume up to around -20, don't really have any intentions of going much louder, as that is insane volume for my room. The subs made no unwanted audible noises whatsoever.

I'm not saying the JTRs don't come without it limits, i just don't want to be in the room when i hit them.


I am quite sure I could play that scene at -20 with no chuffing. I think I'll try it out and record it and post back. Obviously your listening limits are lower than most people's. I feel this contributes to your svs bashing. We are listening at much higher volumes than you do.


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post #4729 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 12:44 PM
 
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I am quite sure I could play that scene at -20 with no chuffing. I think I'll try it out and record it and post back. Obviously your listening limits are lower than most people's. I feel this contributes to your svs bashing. We are listening at much higher volumes than you do.


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You must have missed my reply a page back, read more carefully before commenting:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post54214705

Also, not sure why you are so worried about SVS bashing, but it looks like you are not ready to give it up. Not sure why you are so worried about my listening levels anyway, Enjoy your SVS and let us enjoy our JTR, pretty please!!
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post #4730 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:06 PM
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFE Junkie View Post
You must have missed my reply a page back, read more carefully before commenting:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...l#post54214705



Also, not sure why you are so worried about SVS bashing, but it looks like you are not ready to give it up. Not sure why you are so worried about my listening levels anyway, Enjoy your SVS and let us enjoy our JTR, pretty please!!


I'm just saying, it seems like you listen at lower levels than some of us. Your subs are calibrated to 75db. Your not running them hit at all. I couldn't even watch a movie like that.


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post #4731 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:22 PM
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Hahaha That's hilarious! Sounds so...elitest?

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post #4732 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrazda View Post
I'm just saying, it seems like you listen at lower levels than some of us. Your subs are calibrated to 75db. Your not running them hit at all. I couldn't even watch a movie like that.


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How in the heck can you sit there, never listening to my system, and even comprehend what my system can and can't do. Why don't you just move along and engage in another conversation. We are a little tired of your antics, now if you can, please remove yourself from my remarks and go elsewhere. Don't bother commenting as you will no longer get a reply out of me. Have a nice day
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post #4733 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Those graphs are called PvA: Peak vs Average

When MrGrey gets hold of the movie, he would extract the audio track and run analysis on that. Green is the peak level, and Red is the average level. At the bottom is the frequency and at the right is the loudness. Usually we use the peak to quantify the movie's extension. I think a lot of movies have averages @ -45dB.

Mad Max Fury Road:



Notice that the red line goes as high as -33dB and the peak goes as high as -7dB? This means the movie is super hot. Adjust the MV accordingly. In fact, the cops came when I was watching it on a Friday night.

Edge of Tomorrow:



The first 40 seconds contains 30Hz, 25 Hz, 20 Hz, 15 Hz, and 10 Hz sine waves that go to -7dB. No wonder it will make chuffmasters out of subs. The rest of the movie hovers around -50dB, so the movie is actually mixed low,

Kong: Scull Island:


It has decent amount of bass, with averages of 45dB from 17 to 33 Hz. The 17 Hz peak is at -13dB so it might induce chuffing for lesser subs out there. It is a 1 Hz movie.

As for the extension of a movie, look at the peak and deduct 10dB from that. For Kong, the 17 Hz peak is at -13dB and -23dB falls at 11 Hz or so. Then look to the left, 1 Hz is louder than -23dB. Therefore this is a 1 Hz movie.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the tutorial Chucky!

Kinda shocking how much those EoT one to two second pulses have on graphs of average volume. You wouldn't think they would result is such peaks on a 2 hour movie. A bump, yes but those peaks are huge.
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post #4734 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
For obvious reasons, I will be passing on Fate of the Furious. Can highly recommend Kong: Skull Island, though. It's not a great film by quite a bit but its LFE is tremendous and I ended up enjoying it and not regretting my purchase.
I can't wait to pick up Skull Island, but i am torn between the 3d and 4k version. Which do you guys recommend is best? I am leaning to 3d as of now.
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post #4735 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:35 PM
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How in the heck can you sit there, never listening to my system, and even comprehend what my system can and can't do.
I was thinking the same thing, MV is relative, not absolute.

I don't even think direct comparisons or Audessey or MCAAC calibrated MV levels is 100% accurate. Especially from brand to brand, model to model and version to version.

Add to this we have no idea how linear a AVR's volume control circuit performs which is important when you consider the relatively low volume the calibrations are made.
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post #4736 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:48 PM
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I can't wait to pick up Skull Island, but i am torn between the 3d and 4k version. Which do you guys recommend is best? I am leaning to 3d as of now.
I'm probably the wrong guy to consult about whether to buy the UHD HDR or 3D version of any title. I love UHD HDR but have alway been underwhelmed by 3D. Anyway, I thought Kong: Skull Island looked great in UHD HDR and highly recommend it.

HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #4737 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:54 PM
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How in the heck can you sit there, never listening to my system, and even comprehend what my system can and can't do. Why don't you just move along and engage in another conversation. We are a little tired of your antics, now if you can, please remove yourself from my remarks and go elsewhere. Don't bother commenting as you will no longer get a reply out of me. Have a nice day
*still looking down his nose at you*

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post #4738 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 01:56 PM
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I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

My setup is currently 5.1 and recently I pulled out my speakers from the office to test 7.1. Yes 7.1 is more immersive and I like it but I am not sure if the cost of building a side wall on the open side of the living room warrants it. It also impacts resale value. We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. Anyway, in addition to all the bass goodness, I cannot believe how this JTR sub also increases the immersion. The room is so much more full of acoustic energy. I wonder what adding a 2nd one at the front of the room would do

Attached are some pics. The sub is currently in the back about 4 feet from the MLP. The Rel is still right behind me and powered off and I need to move it out of the room so it is not blocking my MLP. The pic where it is in the front was just to see how it would look . I have ordered a UMIK-1 MIC and will started learning REW so I can dial it in. I guess this is the beginning
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I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

My setup is currently 5.1 and recently I pulled out my speakers from the office to test 7.1. Yes 7.1 is more immersive and I like it but I am not sure if the cost of building a side wall on the open side of the living room warrants it. It also impacts resale value. We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. Anyway, in addition to all the bass goodness, I cannot believe how this JTR sub also increases the immersion. The room is so much more full of acoustic energy. I wonder what adding a 2nd one at the front of the room would do

Attached are some pics. The sub is currently in the back about 4 feet from the MLP. The Rel is still right behind me and powered off and I need to move it out of the room so it is not blocking my MLP. The pic where it is in the front was just to see how it would look . I have ordered a UMIK-1 MIC and will started learning REW so I can dial it in. I guess this is the beginning
Congrats on the upgrade! Haha, I love it... you say that it's the best dollar for dollar improvement you've ever had - and right away you are considering a second! I completely understand that type of thinking.
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post #4740 of 13725 Old 07-12-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Curves View Post
I got my JTR 118 on Monday. It replaces my Rel Stadium with 10" driver. It's like comparing a V8 Corvette with 500HP to a 4-Cylinder Honda Civic with 100HP. I paid $3K for that "AudioFool" Rel 10 years ago and this 118 for 1/2 the cost ten years later blows it away. This is the best improvement for the $$ I have ever experienced in Audio. I just did not know what I was missing.

My setup is currently 5.1 and recently I pulled out my speakers from the office to test 7.1. Yes 7.1 is more immersive and I like it but I am not sure if the cost of building a side wall on the open side of the living room warrants it. It also impacts resale value. We HT nuts like closed rooms but regular home buyers like open floor plan. Anyway, in addition to all the bass goodness, I cannot believe how this JTR sub also increases the immersion. The room is so much more full of acoustic energy. I wonder what adding a 2nd one at the front of the room would do

Attached are some pics. The sub is currently in the back about 4 feet from the MLP. The Rel is still right behind me and powered off and I need to move it out of the room so it is not blocking my MLP. The pic where it is in the front was just to see how it would look . I have ordered a UMIK-1 MIC and will started learning REW so I can dial it in. I guess this is the beginning
Congratulations on taking your HT to the next level!

I know the feeling...

With your old sub, it kinda feels like when the earthquake hits, you hear all the noise, but little shake and/or vibrations.

With just the JTR Cap 118HT, you can hear the bass, feel the vibrations through your chair, the tremor from the floor and hear the windows, and the walls begging you to stop. Since bass below 80 Hz is omni-directional, you feel it's all around you. The sub fills the low end and completes the movie experience.

Have you watched a bass flick with the port pointed at the MLP? Get ready for a surprise!!!
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Speakers: L/C/R: JTR Noesis 212HT. Surrounds: Jamo C103, KEF Q100, Polk Audio RTiA3.
Subwoofer: JTR Captivator 4000ULF.
AVR: Denon AVR-X4400H. TV: Samsung UN75NU8000FXZA.

FS: Jamo C103, KEF Q100 and Polk RTiA3

Last edited by chucky7; 07-12-2017 at 02:45 PM.
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